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Hasidic Landlord Sick Of "Sun Tanning Goyim" In Crown Heights

012412procro.jpg
Looking west toward Pro-Cro (John Del Signore/Gothamist)

The yuppie goyim are TAKING OVER Crown Heights, turning the once idyllic neighborhood into a wicked G-dless hellhole known among interlopers as "ProCro," a veritable Sodom where they party half-naked on rooftops and corrupt the area youth! So says one local landlord, who has fired off an open letter begging fellow property owners not to rent to these licentious libertines. In a desperate missive titled "Take Back Our Neighborhood," the anonymous landlord writes:

Demographic changes are swiftly changing the culture of our neighborhood. Local Lubavitch landowners and outside chassidic investors are making Crown Heights an attractive location for young, non Jewish tenants. In fact, it has come to attention that some investors are specifically targeting their advertising for this purpose. This is clearly seen with the new PLEX building Montgomery Street and Nostrand Avenue.

Young, upwardly mobile professionals may seem to be pleasant tenants who bring in reliable income, but they also introduce a very different way of life: new nightclubs and bars, sun tanning on rooftops, bike lanes and an increasing amount of immodesty on our streets. Some of these changes are hard to ignore; for instance, one of the sun tanning parties are visible for our young children to see from the window of a local school.

Rising rent compounds the problem and makes it even harder for our young couples and families to compete in the rental market. Friends, we pay a premium to live in this neighborhood, and we strive to create an atmosphere of holiness and kedusha for our children and teens. These yuppies bring pritzus to our neighborhood. They come out at night to our restaurants and act inappropriately while waiting on line etc.

We're guessing "pritzus" is a strain of particularly potent marijuana? Anyway, the letter's author finds it deeply troubling that "some young agents and landlords will specifically rent to these goyim instead of a fellow Jewish family." His solution? "We must form a group to come up with effective ways to reinforce the observant Jewish character of crown heights. The Satmars in Williamsburg are faced with the same problem and have made a successful committee to curb this issue. This could include meeting with investors from our own community and possibly outside, subsidizing rent for our own community members."

Also, how about a public information campaign letting women know that a long skirt adds years to their lives?

012412skirts.jpg
A modest modesty sign from Crown Heights, Brooklyn telling women that a long skirt brings long life. The sign also declares that the late rebbe of Chabad, Menachem Mendel Schneerson, is the messiah. (Courtesy Failed Messiah)

For perspective, we spoke with one non-Orthodox Crown Heights resident, who tells us, "I do think this guy's 'fears' are reasonable. There have been so many new businesses opening; there's a place called Owl and Thistle that opened up and my first thought when I walked in was 'who the hell in this neighborhood is going to pay $70 for a pizza stone.' But I'm guessing places like that are getting in while the rents are still cheap, anticipating a boom in 3-4 years. The neighborhood has beautiful brownstones and it's going to get yuppified, no doubt." Crown Heights resident Tien Mao adds, "I know I sunbathe nude and ride my bike topless all the time." JUST TRY TO STOP HIM! (Seriously, please try to stop him.)

Contact the author of this article or email tips@gothamist.com with further questions, comments or tips.

Comments [rss]

  • Guest
    I am thinking if this situation was all the way around, this would have

    been on national news and treated as racist and anti Semitic buy now 8
    times over.... how is this allowed in this day and age...shocked,
    disturbed and angry...we should all be happy that economy is well enough
    for some people to bring new businesses to our neighborhoods and
    improve the quality of our lives....why should your religion determine
    how much you pay for rent and it should be subsidized for you....Lets
    not forget about the history, when people were driven away from their
    homes, neighborhoods and cities just because of their religion and their
    beliefs or the color of their skin...lets not wish that on other
    people...It
    was an ignorant time back then and it happened in every culture and
    religion...did we learn something from it in school when we studied
    about it...shame shame shame..speechless...Diversity is the reason we live in a place like NY and it's boroughs..we may not always approve of how our neighbors live, but we do respect the freedom of their choices...
  • wndedplcan5
    This was an anonymous letter written to Orthodox Jewish landlords, it wasn't meant to be public knowledge. The other landlords didn't even agree to the man's wishes...This whole blog stirs up prejudice for no good reason, as if there ever was a good reason...
  • Guest
    I am thinking if this situation was all the way around, this would have
    been on national news and treated as racist and anti Semitic buy now 8
    times over.... how is this allowed in this day and age...shocked, disturbed and angry...we should all be happy that economy is well enough for some people to bring new businesses to our neighborhoods and improve the quality of our lives....why should your religion determine how much you pay for rent and it should be subsidized for you....Lets not forget about the history, when people were driven away from their homes, neighborhoods and cities just because of their religion and their beliefs or the color of their skin...lets not wish that on other people...It
    was an ignorant time back then and it happened in every culture and
    religion...did we learn something from it in school when we studied
    about it...shame shame shame..speechless...
  • unitedstates35
    I am thinking if this situation was all the way around, this would have been on national news and treated as racist and anti Semitic buy now 8 times over.... how is this allowed in this day and age...shocked, disturbed and angry...we should all be happy that economy is well enough for some people to bring new businesses to our neighborhoods and improve the quality of our lives....why should your religion determine how much you pay for rent and it should be subsidized for you....Lets not forget about the history, when people were driven away from their homes, neighborhoods and cities just because of their religion and their beliefs or the color of their skin...lets not wish that on other people...It was an ignorant time back then and it happened in every culture and religion...did we learn something from it in school when we studied about it...shame shame shame..speechless...We live in a city like New York and it's boroughs because of it's diversity...We always don't approve of how our neighbors live, but we respect everyone's right to be free...why can't you?
  • wndedplcan5
    He wasn't preaching or giving a political speech. This letter was not supposed to be public. So, before you judge the man, examine your own heart and ask yourself, who is judging who??? Don't tell me that you have never had feelings or thoughts about people who were your neighbors or that you've never had concerns about your neighborhood.
  • If you haven't read this article in it's entirety, please do so here: http://www.collive.com/show_ne...
    I lived for 6 months in this neighborhood (Kingston Ave). I moved out for a variety of reasons a mile away. It amazes me how after 6 months of taking nightly walks, only three Jewish people EVER addressed me or my husband kindly. On the 20th anniversary of the riots, I saw an interview with an elderly black woman stating how the neighborhood belong to all races and we must learn to live together. I found that many black people came out to a unity gathering, but very little Jews did. It saddens me because it was racial tensions that fueled the fire of the riots. That racial tension apparently has not died.It's amazing that this author could be so racist and intolerant of others, as if he has forgotten the massive amounts of racism and intolerance that Jews have faced throughout the course of history. It's articles like this that transform people into Anti-Semites.
  • wndedplcan5
    Many people are afraid when a large group of black people form. There are many good reasons for this fear...Just look around you...
  • CrowHillHeathen
    Best rabbi quote evarrrr:

    "The Satmars in Williamsburg are faced with the same problem and have made a successful committee to curb this issue."

    Yes, OUTSTANDING job, Satmars of Williamsburg, curbing the yuppie infestation in your neighborhood. I am sure your bretheren in Crown Heights--uh, I mean, PROCRO--will be just as successful! 
    But seriously, aside from his moral objections, I don't see what Dude is all worried about...no idea how rents could get any higher here. They are already about 50% higher than is reasonable given the crime rate and prevalence of deadbeat landlords. For those of us Crown Heights residents who DON'T actually live within spitting distance of Franklin Avenue, our everyday reality is closer to the Ghetto than the Gentrified utopia of the NYTIMEs piece. There aren't any wine bars or ice cream stores on my block, I can assure you. 

    If anyone is driving up the rent, it's the landlords, not the tenants who can (barely) afford to pay those rents. The majority of people who live here are not wealthy or on a trust fund. Look at the census figures from 2010...average incomes in this neighborhood are quite low compared to the rest of NYC. People will always move to the best place they can afford to live. What I am I supposed to do, live in East New York so that I could save $100 a month in rent? Be homeless? I gotta live somewhere, sorry that I'm not black or Hasidic and that I like to fuck and Rock and Roll. It's my neighborhood too.
  • i understand being upset with immodesty perhaps but bike lanes?  that right there makes it weirdo bs
  • timtedtomtod
    Well, they can't have it both ways, either profit by being shitty landlords to people who need a place to live OR further their cultish isolation.
  • Good luck getting a Jewish landlord to accept LESS money to rent to a non-goy.
  • owlandthistlegeneralstore
    This is slightly off-topic but I'm the owner of Owl & Thistle General Store named in the article, I feel I need to set the record straight.  I do not sell $70 pizza stones.  Everything in the store is locally made, fair trade or sustainable and the majority of items are $20 and under.  My family and I live in Crown Heights and my hope in opening the store was to help support local artisans while also helping to keep local dollars, local.  Personally I was tired of having to take the subway to another neighborhood and spending money there instead of my own community.  I carry things made by Caribbean-Americans, Orthodox Jews, Austrians, Ugandan-Americans to name a few.  I love Crown Heights because it is so diverse and unique and I hope that all the new locally owned businesses continue to foster that and that residents support these business.  Small businesses aren't the ones driving prices up.  Some change is inevitable but a vibrant and inviting community with strong local businesses will only make Crown Heights more tolerant, safe, and unique.
  • "It's not discrimination when WE do it!!!"
  • yes, right. we're just protecting the neighborhood. So said the racists in Bensonhurst. There it was blacks, here it's "goyim."
  • wndedplcan5
    He would like to protect the neighborhood which isn't the same as "protecting the neighborhood". Wishing something doesn't necessarily make it come true. All people are prejudiced in one way or another. We all prefer things over other things. We all are attracted to a certain type of person. We also have a certain type of person who we cannot tolerate. It is not honest to say that we don't have these feelings or concerns. This man is expressing his concern and attempting to get others to agree with him, which they did not do. So this is not about Jew against non Jew, though many would have us think so, if you read the comments. It is not even about Orthodox Jew against non Orthodox Jew or non Jew. It is about a man expressing his concerns to other Orthodox landlords about their neighborhood.
  • jx10
    I just moved into CH a year ago.. The Hasidm present their own brand of obscene but this is new New York so, who cares.  The Hasidic landlords are the one's leading the price rise.  I see how they and the Orthodox show their building only to Yuppie tenants with the glory of the dollar more important than their impressionable youth?  Money always trumps decorum in NYC.  

    I looked at close to 60 apartments in this neighborhood and Williamsburg and I have to say that the smallest and  most expensive units were owned and leased by the Orthodox.  No question about that.  IF you want a cheaper nicer apartment find a Caribbean owner.  They charge less, a lot less.  Don't mean to appear racist but that is what I discovered after months of looking in brownstone Brooklyn.
  • wndedplcan5
    I agree, and I have to say that this is why this letter wasn't written to us but to other Orthodox Jewish landlords, it is a problem that they created. They chose to rent to yuppies and to have ridiculously high rent, which caused the man's a fore mentioned concern. His letter was addressed to other landlords, thoroughly pinpointing where the cause of the issue is. The fact that they ignored the letter, it being a minority opinion, or at least outweighed by the profit that renting to yuppies would generate, should ease our concerns about bigotry in this community. This is not our community, so we actually have no say in what goes on in it. Is this talking about a Jewish man's wish for his community to embrace his cultural values our business? We would much rather talk about this letter and how bigoted it is than to solve problems. So, in doing so, we become the bigots and we spread these feelings as other people are contaminated by our toxic and twisted views of tolerance/ intolerance.
  • Err iz narish keyn makhn dos efntlekh.  Zol tsumakhn zayn moyl!
  • poxod
    Um, my realtor told me that neighborhood is called CROW HILL. That other name conjures frightening images in your parents' heads when you tell them you live there. I don't know why I guess some stuff happened there.
  • Pritzot (hebrew, not yiddish version with S instead of T, is breached) similar root but different is Prutzot (sluts) aka women who have BEEN breached.

    and as a breached (had sex before marriage) woman whose grandfather was a kosher butcher in Crown Heights back in the day, I say to the "landlord" get a grip, find some tolerance, or the rest of us yuppies and other human people, jewish and otherwise, wont find tolerance for your intolerance...
  • wndedplcan5
    Meaning of a word is often defined by its usage no matter what the original meaning was. Look at the English language or any language for that matter and you'll notice that the original meaning of many words is far removed from its practical meaning after it has been used for many years. With this in mind, you are both right.
  • Der pritzeh nite lib hobn yesh heysn pritzeh, un der eyzl nite lib hobn keyn zayn heysn a eyzl !
  • leleleseven
    I happen to live in Crown Heights. (Yes my husband has a real job outside of the neighborhood and I'm a full-time student in a CUNY college - but we're also those "disgusting hasidim.")


    In the few years I have lived here (I'm not from NY - I only moved here after I got married) I have noticed the proportion of white non-Jewish people living here increase. Hey I love diversity - I think it makes neighborhoods safer - but I am worried about being priced out of this place.

    I already pay a large amount of money to live in a basement apartment - I can't fathom being able to afford an apartment in a building. If more yuppies move in, landlords will be able to charge more and the Jews will be priced out of this neighborhood.

    You may say "Too bad, that is their own damn problem" - but I'm assuming you wouldn't want these disgusting hasidim to move into your neighborhood - right?
  • wndedplcan5
    No, it is not the "disgusting hasidim" that have the problem. On the contrary, You all want to live like there is no accountability for your actions and despise someone who objects to your lasciviousness but it is only because their lifestyle is contrary to your lifestyle, and that is the point. The behavior and lifestyle mentioned in the letter is contrary to theirs. Social contract theory states that each person makes a contract with his or her society that the society will give you the right to live the way that you want to live as long as the way you live doesn't interfere with the rights and freedoms of another person. The way that the non Jews are living is interfering with the rights and freedoms of the hasidim to live a life separated from these negative worldly influences. You don't have the right to do what you want according to the contract that every person makes with a society. The society agrees to protect you from infringement of your rights but in turn, you must not infringe on the rights of others. There is a law against public drunkenness and used to be a law that protected public decency. Well, and the problem is that what is legal isn't always moral. In today's age, people do not know what morality is or what honesty is for that matter. I have nothing but respect for any one who stands up for what they believe in. This letter was meant for other Jews and not for public disclosure. They just want to live their lives the way they believe that God wants them to. When they are subjected to these things, their standards give way a little. If there was a factory that started up next to your house and off the river that you get your drinking water from, and it started polluting the river, you'd see that even though the factory had a right to do business and make a prophet, its polluting of the river was ruining also your water supply. You would see this as harm to you and your family and though they have the right to live the way they want to, their right ends when it interferes with your right to have clean unpolluted water. I would be proud to have the hasidim as my neighbors. The problem is never on one side when there is a dis agreement or lack of agreement. The problem is always two fold. The use of non Jewish and Jewish in the letter makes the writer sound racially, and religiously bigoted and yet it should probably have been made clear that though yuppy goyim are usually the problem, there are Jewish people that act like goyim and are just as bad because they are denying their Jewishness and want to be goyim. Everyone has prejudices and would prefer their environment to be a certain way. It would be hypocritical to suggest anything different.
  • Jesse Sternberg
    If you're worried about being priced out, you oughta be complaining to the landlords for being so damn greedy. Not other tenants looking for an affordable place to live just like you who happen to practice a different religion (or a different interpretation of your religion). You think prices are going up now? You should've seen how low they were before the hassidim started buying everything up.
    I'm going to assume cederman is joking or a troll and let it alone.
  • wndedplcan5
    Knowing half of the truth is worse than knowing the whole truth. This is because, if you tell a person half of the truth, it is easier for them to accept than it would be if you told them a complete lie. The problem with this whole set of posts is that many people posting comments actually tell themselves that they are more tolerant than the landlord who wrote the letter. He is just worried how this situation is affecting his neighborhood and his lifestyle. These posts prove insensitive and show no concern for the feelings of others or tolerance to a different set of beliefs or social behaviors. Because they generate hatred or prejudice against another person who is different than they are. The content of the letter and the situation described there-in is not directed toward (or intended to be directed toward) any of the people posting on this blog and is abstract and separated from their lives and spheres of experience. This is a mere letter revealing a man's private thoughts and concerns. People are generally unkind to the unfamiliar, they are often suspicious and easily prone to hatred and violence to other people of a different tribe, culture, or religion. The holocaust is a phenomenon that is strange and yet familiar because people were shouting hateful things as they witnessed the Jews being evicted from their homes to the ghettos. They even accepted the lies that the Nazis spread as they took part in their ejection from German society. Currently, Jews now are even part and parcel to the problem as they separate from other Jews who they are embarrassed by. Mankind never changes its innate tendency towards hatred, jealousy, and violence toward those of another tribe, culture, race, religion.
  • leleleseven
    OK - the collective memory is pretty short.


    People forget that Crown Heights used to be a very Jewishly diverse neighborhood - but once Caribbean immigrants started moving in other Jewish groups fled. The head-honcho Lubavitch rabbi actually greatly encouraged his group of Jews not to leave just because people who are different are moving in. Obviously this anonymous landlord (and the commenters on the website) have major issues. But I don't think it is fair to take one guy's cowardly anonymous opinion (and the opinions of the sort of people who comment on community websites) as the official opinion for the thousands of Jews that live in Crown Heights. But I guess it is more fun to take an anonymous opinion, posted on a stupid community website and use it to trash a heterogeneous group of hasidim you have never met and are not interested in seeing as individuals.
  • wndedplcan5
    People are generally bigots at heart. The people who are the biggest bigots are the ones who are always emphasizing how tolerant they are. This is right on the money. The guy that wrote the letter feels that this phenomenon is changing his neighborhood in a bad way. But don't be the ones who speak about people that they do not know and say that "they are like this" or "they are like that" when you do not know any individual hasidim. This is the "us" and "them" phenomenon that is the cause of many hate crimes and just plain hatred of an individual or group just because they are different. This phenomenon was the incubus of the holocaust. Think about when the economic situation in a country is not good and people start talking. They usually come to a point where they are placing blame. Groups that usually get the blame are immigrants, Jews, minorities, and other non majority groups. There are many types of bigotry and it doesn't exist in only white, protestant, right wing populations but is a part of the human condition.
  • Ayder me zogt aroys s’vort, iz menahar; dernoch iz menanar.
  • you didn't read where this guy said that they need to do what was done by the Satmar in Williamsburg.  in others words this shit been going on for a long time.  Now go away fake hasidic broad.
  • leleleseven
    http://collive.com/show_news.r...


    This is so you can read it and realize one anonymous person does not represent the whole. Yes you can be a bigot and hate a whole group of people and say "Hey I'm not an anti-semite, I just hate them because they're so damn un-American and weird and different from me" but you're definitely not being fair. You're being just as bad as the op-ed writer. In fact I would say worse. At least he isn't advocating pure liquid hate, just exclusion.
  • wndedplcan5
    I like your comments better than mine. They sound much nicer. Perhaps I need to reevaluate my responses and try to be a bit nicer....
  • Oh he's pure hate all right. he's a damned ignorant bigot  and stupid too because now everybody knows whats what in those neighborhoods and there will be investigations.
  • leleleseven
    And you didn't read where I said this is an anonymous guy. You didn't read all the comments on the original op-ed from community members who think this guy is cowardly and nuts. Yeah he said they should do what they're doing in Williamsburg but if you actually got to know real people in this community you would realize that that is a preposterous proposition. 


    I don't know where you get off calling me a fake chassidic broad either.
  • robingee
    You're allowed to use a computer?
  • running scared are you?  lol.  cat's out of the BAG.  no going back.
  • Because you are a fake hasidic broad.
  • Cederman93
    It's not surprising that these goyim want to live by the Hasidim, the Talmud says they will be our servants and slaves when the Moshiach comes. So if they want to move to Crown Heights, I say let them move, but only give them basement or cellar apartments so that the goyim can start to learn their place and their duties now. But they have to respect our laws, they should look at the ground when the Hasidim walk by, their dirty shiksa women shouldn't tempt the thoughts of Torah scholars and if they want to have bike lanes, they can use the bike lanes as sidewalks and leave the rest to us.
  • wndedplcan5
    Well, true and the Koran says that: if you can't convert the infidel, you must kill him. The new testament says that: A man's enemies will be members of his own house hold and if your eye offends you pluck it out. I would say that he probably would tell you that he doesn't follow that but places emphasis on the Torah and its commandments. Jesus said, "don't think that I have come to bring peace to the earth, but a sword" This is the verse before, " a man''s enemies will be members of his own household". If you were to take any of these verses out of context, you could justify the crusades or any crusade against anyone. Don't agree that goyim only live in basement apartments and that Hasidim think that goyim are, or will be their slaves. Don't agree that the Hasidim think that goyim should look at the ground when they walk by. I think if you look around, you will notice that many people, who are not even Jewish have concerns about their neighborhoods because the idea of a neighborhood is intensely personal to everyone, no matter your religion, social sphere, ethnic origins, or culture. In Seattle, the residents there are concerned as many people have moved there from other states in the US, driving real-estate costs up and results in overcrowding. So, though you would want to make this about his bigotry and bias against goyim, it isn't really but more about your own bigotry disguised in cleverly written paragraphs. Thanks Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, or Osama bin Laden, or should I say Adolph Hitler? You just set tolerance back a 1000 years as you spread antisemitism...So how do you like being in the KKK?, Neo-Nazi, or Hitler youth? You feeling good about it???
  • Is that you, Bibi Netanyahu? Did you move to Brooklyn?
  • Elisheva Maister
    Woops
  • Jesse Sternberg
    These pritzus are making me thirsty!
  • TheRealCannibal
    HAHAHA
  • Gwinny
    remember that time that Dubya choked on one?
  • evbo
    Hey, you boychiks...get off my lawn!
  • Normally I might have an argument with having all these hipsters and yuppies about. But point in fact isn't there something weird about your 19th century costume?
  • wndedplcan5
    I have nothing against hipsters and yuppies, or even "hot chicks". The letter isn't against hipsters and yuppies, is it??? It is about a person who has concerns about the standards and values in his neighborhood. Many people have concerns about this who aren't Jewish, young people trying to raise a family, and many older goyim also have this concern. Is this an issue only because this man is an Orthodox Jew???
  • blink667
    Yuppies, hipsters and hot chicks in a Crown Heights neighborhood, BAD...  puerto rican crack whores offering $5 dollar blow jobs, GOOD.
  • wndedplcan5
    But there is not much difference. A woman who sleeps with every guy in town without charging a literal fee is less of a "whore" than a woman that charges money for sex in order to buy crack, right?? The "$5" thing is just a price....Well, at least it is a good thing that the "hot chick" is at least practicing good hygiene and hopefully safe sex, not necessarily...
  • Midnight Fapper
    i'm going to ride my fixie through the nabe, wearing nothing but a neon thong.

    oy vey indeed my friends.
  • wndedplcan5
    Why wear anything at all? It is the same difference. But I have to say that a woman who doesn't show everything or give away her body all at once is much more attractive. No one appreciates what is given to them for free as much as a prize that they have worked for. This concept is called "labor defines value" and means that we don't ever value anything that is given without working for it. You can see this in children who are spoiled and given everything without any effort. Also, is also seen in the case of the low rent housing and government projects. If I just give something away without asking for anything in return, the people who receive it won't appreciate it as much as if I sold it for a price. Children seldom value their parents' possessions and yet when the child spends his or her own money on an object, the object becomes more valuable to them.
  • robingee
    Grow up. Women can wear shorts in the summer and sports bras while riding bikes. That's what we're really talking about here.
  • wndedplcan5
    Yes, agree but also disagree, that what you say is appropriate if you're a goyim but this man  is not. In context, you're wrong, but in theory, you're right. For every occasion and circumstance, there is an appropriate attire, meaning if you were a conductor in an orchestra, you wouldn't go to conduct the orchestra without clothes, and dressed in a thong. But in your limited sphere of experience and exposure to things, you are correct. But consider this, you are not an Orthodox Jew and don't live this way so you don't understand his thinking. Before you judge someone you should try to walk a mile in his/ or her moccasins...
  • bike lanes hurt who?
  • wndedplcan5
    No one whatsoever, and yet this is our culture and not his own. So, think that if your culture was the majority in a certain area, and native Americans began placing teepees where you walked and took part of your walking area, would you like it? It is probably a place where he socializes and would like it free of bike lanes, other than that, this is not a moral or religious issue at all but a lifestyle issue. He has a certain lifestyle and he wants it that way. I don't necessarily agree with it but agree that he has a right to thinking or believing the way he wants to. I would probably not agree with his point of view exactly but that he has a point of view worth considering and not discarded like a pesky fly. If you consider the world to be like a large family where everyone must get along and you were the parent, you cannot play favorites. Here on this blog, we are playing favorites. We are endorsing the stereotypical biases of the day and not considering that there might be other points of view.
  • robingee
    Also, we are not talking Orthodox we are talking Hasidic. You should now the difference if you are going to argue about it.
  • wndedplcan5
    No, but on the contrary, the Hasidim are Haredi (Ultra-Orthodox), the most conservative members of the Orthodox branch of Judaism.
    Unlike other Orthodox groups, they place great emphasis on joy and
    spirituality. (The Hasidic movement started as a reaction against the
    perceived overly "academic" nature of Judaism at the time).



    Hasidim wear distinct clothing that other Haredi and Orthodox Jews
    may not wear. They wear their tallit katan over their shirts, while
    other Orthodox Jews wear them under their shirts with only the tzitzit
    hanging out.



    Hasidic men also practice mikveh immersion daily before morning prayers,
    whereas most male Orthodox Jews only practice mikveh immersion on
    special occasions.

    So, they are actually also a more conservative sect of Orthodox Jews (Ultra-Orthadox) "

    By you're own words,

    "You should now the difference if you are going to argue about it."

    I would also say the same to you. Not only are you ignorant in genuine tolerance of other viewpoints and other religions than your own. Your also wrong in your own post.
  • robingee
    Don't care. They can't tell me how to dress or where to move. End of story. I am not one of their oppressed women.
  • wndedplcan5
    Nor should anyone tell anyone else "how to dress or where to move". Also, how do you think that you have the right to tell someone else how to think or not to think or dictate that their standards are too strict???There goes that assumption again "oppressed women". Who said that these women are oppressed? They voluntarily belong to the sect so how are they oppressed? They can leave. Who wants to make you "one of their oppressed women"?
  • wndedplcan5
    The most conservative members of Orthodox Jews but they are still Orthodox or (ultra orthodox) but in fact are Orthodox as it states. So now what do you have to say?
    "You should now the difference if you are going to  argue about it." I would also say the same to you. Not only are you ignorant in genuine tolerance of other viewpoints and other religions than your own. Your also wrong in your own post. So, hasidim are a more conservative branch of Orthodox Jews but still are, in fact, Orthodox and considered so. They chose to be more conservative and formed another branch.
  • robingee
    Again, don't care. Religion has nothing to do with me. I do as I please and live where I please within the law. The end.
  • wndedplcan5
    That is tantamount to your religion and beliefs and has everything to do with you. Just because you say that, "religion has nothing to do with me" doesn't make it so. You "do as you please and live where you please" within your own para-dime. Your thinking and beliefs about subjects is your faith and your living it out is a religion of sorts, though you deny it. It is a form of religion but not a recognized form but common, none the less. The law that you speak of is a code of regulations formed by men but some people live by a stricter code of laws. The stricter code of laws is the source of all laws. The law of the land has been changed to fit modern lifestyle, widespread belief and values, and doesn't take into account a person's moral beliefs. Just because the law allows something doesn't make it the right thing to do. Just because you feel that you are free to engage in certain things doesn't mean that everyone feels free to do so.
  • wndedplcan5
    Okay, what is the difference, since you are such an expert on the subject. Not very academic when it comes to expressing tolerance to others but are quite so when it comes to semantics....
  • robingee
    Don't really care about people's religious beliefs; they can choose to believe whatever they want, and no one else should be affected by it. The law is the law. And I have never met a more rude, disrespectful, entitled bunch of jerks as the Satmar sect. They do what they want, drive how they want, are rude as much as they want, and on top of it want people to conform to their beliefs. No one cares. Not gonna happen.
  • wndedplcan5
    Even your apparent lack of religious beliefs is actually a form of belief (comparable to a religious dogma) and promotes a life style all its own (like organized religion) and affects others. You want the Hasidim to hide their beliefs away so you aren't aware of them, and just practice their religion and don their religious garb only in the privacy of their homes, while you parade your lascivious free lifestyle (promoted by your own beliefs) openly out in the streets. So, how is this not obvious that you are insensitive to their beliefs? Well, it is a different social group and do not follow the same social standards as you do. It is like you were thrust in the middle of another country. Nor are they going to drop theirs to conform to yours.
  • AlexTheOriginalPartyDog
    Sweet fucking Jeebus you are like a bad SNL skit.
  • wndedplcan5
    Is this your way of handling problems, just throw obscenities at them?  "A bad SNL skit", really??? It didn't take much intelligence or fore thought for you to come up with this as well as your other one word or one sentence insults. As always, you tend to just use a word or phrase that doesn't even address the issue. You aren't accomplishing anything by this. You are like a animal sniffing at the ground that just does what comes naturally like snorting or burping. But human beings have the capacity to reason. But then, you don't seem to have the capacity to reason but instead, choose to behave like one of the lower animals. Where is the logic or reasoning in any of your comments (if you can call any of these brief retorts a comment)?
  • wndedplcan5
    And who are you??? And are any words of intelligence written in your post? Or is this your uneducated way of handling problems, just throw obscenities at them? Your brain is microscopic to say the least.
  • wndedplcan5
    If you're going to take the time and effort to comment, at least you could have a viable point of view and state it clearly instead of grunting a few curse words and ambling off to your mud pitt...
  • Please do.  I  might join you.  Maybe it's time to get a slutwalk going in t his neighborhood, with half nude men, women and gay people just walking up and down the streets all day.
  • wndedplcan5
    I have to agree with the landlord, this behavior does bring the standards of the neighborhood down. I can see his point. You wouldn't be insulting him. Your "slut walk" would be insulting yourself. You think that this behavior makes you better, makes you enlightened, makes you tolerant. But, in fact, this only makes you insensitive to the feelings of others. He is not guilty of that because he was not writing to anyone on this blog. You think that flaunting your lack of morals, values, or any such standard makes you better but actually, it makes you worse.
  • M C
    And I am going to hold sun tanning parties all summer long!
  • dogbertt
    I cannot imagine any group more "foreign" and less "American" than Orthodox Jewry.

  • wndedplcan5
    This is an odd comment because native Americans were the first ones to come to America so that anyone else here is "foreign" and less "American".

    Every new group of immigrants that came to America have faced prejudice and intolerance from the 2nd and further generation of children of prior immigrants to this country.

    None of us are actually American. The native Americans, who are related somewhat to Chinese, some say, supposedly crossed the landmass, then connected, called Pangaea and migrated to America. So we say that they were the original inhabitants but we don't know if they replaced any other more primitive peoples.

    Who's American anyway? We live on a continent that is North America and South America, once called the Americas. We call ourselves American, and yet the Canadians are just as American as we are. We are both North Americans. South America is just as American as we are also.

    So, what is an American anyway???
  • robingee
    And this is relevant because...
  • wndedplcan5
    I wrote the above post in reply to a post that was before mine that stated, "I can't imagine any group more foreign and less American than Orthodox Jewry"

    So, it was to the statement that Orthodox Jews are "foreign" and "less American" than any one else.

    We are either all immigrants or native Americans and nothing in between, no matter how American that we think we are.

    This type of thinking that another group is foreign or not American is what was spread about the Jews in Germany before the holocaust, "they are not German but foreign to Germany and German ways" sound familiar???
  • Oh man, being a straight white married male with a job, I was like "oh man I am the least punk rock ever, total yuppie sellout," but now I found out that I still ROCK & ROLL HARDCORE!  


    IF THE CONDUCT IN LINE AT A RESTAURANT IS INAPPROPRIATE, YOU ARE TOO OLD GRANDPA!
  • wndedplcan5
    Or too non worldly??? our standards don't have anything to do with age but more to do with experiences or lack of them that either help us to have high standards or to have low/ lower standards. His standards and beliefs about values and morals are not a product of age but of his experience and culture that he believes are defiling his neighborhood, their judgement and values, and his way of life.
  • canofpeas
    They can't help themselves; their racism and hatred is built into the religion.
  • wndedplcan5
    There is no proof, nor can it be proven unless we interview the author of the letter, that any thing written here was motivated by race or hatred and not by the desire to preserve values of modesty and public decency???
  • unitedstates35
    Then it should have not been published without a reliable source or a proof...is not a kindergarten news letter.
  • Guest
    Then it should have not been published with knowing the source...
  • robingee
    Women and men can be topless in NYC in public. That's the law. Someone's personal idea of "decency" doesn't enter into it.
  • wndedplcan5
    Just because something is legal doesn't mean that it is moral...war is legal in a society if it declares war, but is it ever moral. The problem is that people today lack genuine morals so what dictates what is right in their mind is whether something is legal. Just because your moral standards have moved doesn't mean that everyone's have. Your "personal idea of decency doesn't enter into it" either. Just because you lack a high standard doesn't give you the right to demand that everyone lack a high standard.
  • bggb
    Almost literally.
  • It is.  you try living near them.. they won't even talk to you or act like you exist. they wont even look you in the eye. Snotty stuck up bitches. lol
  • wndedplcan5
    Perhaps it is not that they are stuck up or snotty but because they think that, if they look or speak to you, that it will change their separateness from all things unclean, or worldly.
  • wndedplcan5
    And why do they want to be separate from the world? Because it is commanded in the Torah. Come out and be separate and touch not the unclean thing. If they look at something that diverts their eye, they may break this commandment. If they talk to someone who is not following the commandments, it may cause them to lose their focus on the commandments. It is not that "they are stuck up or snotty" but perhaps their point of view is the correct one. You see, you assume that your point of view is correct. But consider for a moment that you are watching two people argue and each one wants you to be on their side. Most people realize that both people are right and both people are wrong. There is no absolute right or wrong when it comes to a difference of opinion. It is like a prism where white lite is broken down into many colors. Each perspective is important in order to create the complete and perfect light (applied to knowledge). God's knowledge is perfect and He only imparted each man a portion of this knowledge so that he or she would not be overcome with arrogance.  I forgot to add that they are also preparing for the Messiah's arrival and think that he might come at any moment, hence their feeling of urgency to keep themselves pure.
  • It's really cute how you're Jewish without saying it. How about instead of saying "them" you say "we"? It will make this whole discussion much, much easier.
  • wndedplcan5
    Because not all Jews are the same or think the same and I don't necessarily agree with the narrowness of this man's views but try to understand them. If a protestant speaks of a different Christian view say of a Protestant, he might say "they", instead of "we" though he may understand the view,  he doesn't hold to that view. I am not Hassidic so I am not the "we" that you are referring to...
  • AlexTheOriginalPartyDog
    Worst. Commentator. Ever.
  • wndedplcan5
    @Alex The Original Party Dog, please elaborate with more thought than an easy statement such as this that you don't even provide supporting statements in order to substantiate.
  • robingee
    Oh that's much better, ha.
  • robingee
    Your religion can't dictate what happens on public streets. That's it.
  • wndedplcan5
    Who said that it could? That is not what this topic is really about. It is about tenants and what happens on rooftops. The people who live in these buildings are essentially going to be the people who inhabit the streets, so if that is controlling what is happening on the streets, then, in a limited way, it can be controlled. I think if a tenant was denied and they knew that it was because they were not Jewish, they could file a lawsuit against the landlord.
  • robingee
    Your religion can't dictate what happens on rooftops. They don't like ladies in shorts on bikes. They don't like 90210 billboards. They don't like sunbathing ladies. Tough titties.
  • AlexTheOriginalPartyDog
    Mucho bonus points for tough titties.
  • wndedplcan5
    I thought that was a remark about the unnaturally tough texture and unrealistic nature of breast implants. Not really....
  • wndedplcan5
    Who said that it could? This man wrote an anonymous letter,  not meant for public disclosure. How is this an attempt of a religion to change a behavior? This man is just expressing his concerns about that behavior and what it is doing to the neighborhood. I don't think this is tantamount to a religion dictating what happens on rooftops. Was this man a Rebe' (Rabbi) even? No, what religious or other wise authority to change anything does he have??? None whatsoever. Everyone likes or dislikes something but that does not change the reality of anything. For example; If I didn't like gravity, my not liking it would not have any power to change it. This was a private letter not meant to be public and he was trying to change the minds of other landlords, there by change a condition in the neighborhood that is troubling to him. Do you believe in global warming? If you believe that it is happening and try to convince the whole world that it is happening, is that the same as stopping it from happening? This is really about someone who has a different opinion or belief than you do and though you preach tolerance, you are actually intolerant to anyone's view who isn't the same as your own. Face it, really. This is his feelings, and concerns and he is not running for office or trying to conquer the free world.
  • 'pritzus' is most easily explained as 'immodesty'.. or , chas v'sholom '( god forbid ) dressing sexily (slutty) :)

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