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Is That "Hasidic Bus" Company Still Ordering Women To The Back Of The B110?

2011_11_hasidicbus.jpg
Sasha Chavkin/The New York World
You'll recall that last month a private bus company was allegedly caught requiring female passengers to sit in the back of a public bus that connects the predominantly Hasidic neighborhoods of South Williamsburg and Borough Park. The company, Private Transportation Corporation, pays the city $20,000 a year to operate the bus route, and while the owner denies any gender segregation, several female reporters with different media outlets found that they were expected to move to the back. And though the company promised the DOT this sort of thing isn't happening, the Hasidic watchdog blog Failed Messiah has obtained a hard copy of their schedule that tells a very different story.

A source gave Failed Messiah what he/she says is a recent version of the bus schedule. In the English section of the guidelines, the only mention of gender is this: "When boarding a crowded bus with standing room only, women should be allowed to board first." But there is ample text in Yiddish, which translates thus:

According to the psak [religious ruling] of the rabbis, men should concentrate themselves in the front seats in the first half of the bus, and women in the second half. Under no circumstances will men be allowed to stand in the second half of the bus, among the women, nor will women be allowed among the men in the first half of the bus. When the front part of the bus is crowded with standing men, women are not allowed to board the bus from the front entrance in an attempt to push through between the men [to get to the back of the bus]. If possible, women will be allowed to enter the bus through the back door, after they paid first in front to the driver.

After reports of the gender segregation first surfaced, the DOT fired off a letter to the company pointing out that these regulations were not legal. In response, owner Jacob Marmurstein insisted his company did not tolerate discrimination, and women were always allowed to sit wherever they want. A request for comment was not immediately returned by Marmurstein's office. A DOT spokesman tells us, "We’ll look into it but this isn’t what is published on their Web site and it’s not clear if this is being given to passengers or is available aboard buses."

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Comments [rss]

  • JJMJ
    does the B110 take metrocards?
  • PhotoR
    Seconded. Do they?
  • it boggles the mind that hasids are capable of doing this. bloc/block voting aside, they ultimately live in a secular society with the rest of us, and if they're operating underneath the stipulations of the DOT this bus should certainly be shut down or forced to change. i realise that this won't be the case, so i fully back an all-female, half-nude (or atleast with their slutty elbows out!) occupation of the B110!
  • Q: How can you tell which bus is the Jewish bus?

    A: The one with the tip of the tailpipe snipped off.
  • JacksBack72
    . . .what is there to say about such stupid, ritualistic shit?!  Nothing!!
    And BTW- hasidic children are subject to child abuse by having to be reared and indoctrinated within this religious cult- what a shame! 
  • robingee
    In through the back door, eh? So that's how they do it!
  • Muslim-Americans are often bashed over their (non-existant) use of sharia in America, but halacha law like this gets a free pass?

    Muslims get all this crap over the false notion that Arab leaders say one thing in english and another thing in Arabic, and now we have actual proof that it happens in the Jewish community too. Let's see if the reaction is the same.
  • Gadea
  • Gadea
    Halakhah: Jewish Law does not advocate the murder ofgirls/women, the way that Islamic sharia law does.Everyday, in Islamic Sharia Law dominated countries,women/girls are routinely murdered by their relatives.Honor Killings are a part of everyday life in Muslim countries.The family members that carry out these murders,are not arrested, tried & convicted, as they should be.In fact, the murder of girls/women in Muslim dominatedby their family members is treated like a Traffic Violation. It is a revolting practice.When Muslims try to carry that out vile practice, in the U.S., Canada, U.K  &  other civilized countries, they are surprisedto find themselves locked up.
  • Jamie_McDonald
    1) Arabs are an ethnicity; Jews are a religion. 2) Muslims - which is presumably what you're getting at - don't put much effort into hiding the fact that Islam considers women as inferior to men. 3) my reaction, at least, is the same: both Jews and Muslims believe in crazy and retarded things that make both of them act like assholes.
  • I know that Arabs and Muslims are not the same thing, but the islamophobes who harangue Muslims over people like Arafat (who lied to everyone, not just english-speakers) never made that distinction.

    Islam does not consider women inferior to men. While I'll agree with you that some fundamentalists act like idiot chauvinists, the religion itself does not condone such actions. If you read the Quran and hadith, they say that men and women are equal in the eyes of God. I think you're getting off-topic here since my original post was complaining about how the company is denying discrimination in English but encouraging it in Yiddish.
  • Gadea
  • Jamie_McDonald
    Oh, right. Let's start at 4:34 in the Koran. "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them."
  • You're quoting Quran out of context but ok. Men are commanded to guard women. Doesn't mean that women are superior nor inferior.

    Let me give you the most conservative interpretation, domestic violence is not allowed.
    The last part says that if your wife disobeys you, first you scold, then if she doesn't listen, you stop sharing your bed with her. If she still persists on sinning and all else fails, a man is permitted to slap his wife. The hadith say that it's allowed by not recommended; "the best of men are those who are nicest to their wives." According to the books of hadith, once the Prophet Muhammad was brushing his teeth when an old man asked what he should best his wife with. "With this!" he said and held up his toothbrush. Look at that, how little weight he gave to such an idea. Islam does not allow anything beyond that; the people who do are committing a big sin.
  • Jamie_McDonald
    I like how, whenever you quote a religionist's own scripture to them in order to demonstrate its insanity, the first answer is always "but it's out of context!" Please, Sulayman, why don't you tell us what the context is, so we can all understand it. Tell us what the context is that makes it acceptable under your religion to beat a woman, for any reason, or with any weapon.
  • I dunno, I'm not married. If she's cheating on you? I wouldn't do anything more than a slap, despite the shattered heart.

    Whole books have been written on gender interactions and the complexities. If you want the full context, you should read the entire Quran cover to cover, that's the best way to see the full picture; verses of peace and tolerance next to the verses about a just war. Otherwise you'll be just going on half truths or less.
  • Jamie_McDonald
    Um. You believe in a magical being who created the world, sees everything, knows everything, and can do anything, and you think that *I'm* relying on "half-truths"?
  • At least I don't make gross generalizations about entire religions or billions of people.
  • Jamie_McDonald
    You don't? If you don't, aren't you violating some pretty central tenets of the Koran, like assuming that all unbelievers are evil ([2.257] Allah is the guardian of those who believe. He brings them out of the darkness into the light; and those who disbelieve, their guardians are [devils] who take them out of the light into the darkness; they are the inmates of the fire, in it they shall abide.) and are not to be trusted or befriended ([3.28] Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.") Let me guess, I bet those ones are out of context too.
  • If you're going to take 3 verses out of a 6000 verse book and try to use them to judge the whole thing, then of course you're using it out of context. You can do it with any religion or ideology.

    2:257 says that idol worshippers go to hell. My Arabic copy says nothing about befriending, neither do the Yusuf Ali or Pickthall or Khalifa translations, clearly you have some author with a bias.

    It does not say to not make friends with unbelievers. The Arabic word is awliyat, which means tribal protector; a better translation of the verse is "do not take unbelievers for tribal protectors over a believer tribe. 

    Might I recommend a better translation; typically Yusuf Ali is used as the english standard.

    How did we get from a news story about a Hasidic bus company to attacks on a different religion?
  • Jamie_McDonald
    The version I'm using is this one: http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/ko...
    We got to this discussion because you complained about people complaining about sharia but letting this slide, while I argued that neither has any place whatsoever in a civilized society, along with any other law based on a religious belief.
  • Well I'll agree with you that America is a secular country and we shouldn't have anything that violates anyone's rights or discriminates. Treat all people in America equally, and we'll all prosper. That goes for everyone; Muslims, Jews, Christians, and the rest. 

    PS- I looked up the verse using that link you supplied, no mention of befriending.
  • Jamie_McDonald
    I agree that everyone should be treated equally! So, for example, if a state DMV says that everyone has to have an ID picture which clearly shows their face in order to have a state-issued ID, you'd definitely agree that a Muslim woman should have to remove her niqab, etc., if she wants to get one, right? 

    P.S. If you click on that link and go to 3.28, it very clearly says exactly what I cited above, which is because I cut and pasted it from there. I don't know why you're having trouble finding it.
  • Well obviously I'd want people to have valid non-forged drivers licenses, so a niqab drivers license photo makes no sense. Muslim rights groups in America are not fighting for the right to wear niqab in a drivers license photo, I feel like you're making a big deal out of a non-existent issue.
  • Jamie_McDonald
    First, wrong; that exact issue has been litigated at least twice. Second, how do you reconcile your stance on this issue with Quran 33:59?
  • I'm referring to your citation of 2:257, the verse has nothing about befriending in the page you linked.
  • Jamie_McDonald
    Yeah, nor did I say it did. Read what I posted again carefully. You probably missed a parenthesis or something.
  • Jamie_McDonald
    By the way, it would be nice if you actually answered some of the substantive questions instead of quibbling over citations and translations.
  • Gadea
    Well according to Haaretz, women have been erased from billboard ads in Jerusalem,
    because of Haredi pressure.

    http://www.haaretz.com/print-e...
  • Gadea
    No need to despair, however, because women do get 
    1 full hour 1 day a week on the radio.

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articl...
  • Eggcream
  • HughGass
    Time to Occupy B110.
  • Detex
    Topless!
  • AaronRed99
    They can investigate all they want, they will never change their behavior.
  • HappilyBookish
    If the city fines the bus company or threatens not to revoke its contract (and the city should!), the bus company may enforce behavior more in keeping with, you know, treating women as actual human beings.
  • AaronRed99
    Yes the city SHOULD end this contract but they never will. Catering to this important voter demographic is more important than civil rights unfortunately.
    Sorry I don't make the rules. I'm just telling you like it is.
  • virgilstarkwell
    the hasids are an important voter demographic?

    you're making a big mistake if you think all jews would side with them.
  • robingee
    The Hasids vote in big blocks. At least upstate they do.
  • Not only are they a big voting demographic, they actually comprise a very big economic block and contribute to campaigns.
  • Guest
    They are in that they vote as a bloc. The rebbe says vote for a head of lettuce, that head of lettuce is getting 10,000 votes from 7,000 Hasids.
  • dogbertt
    No, but they are a big enough bloc by themselves when they vote as their psak'ed to.
  • m015094
    Hasids are like the annoying, poor, step-children of the "Rich, NYC Jew."  And NOBODY likes them - even themselves.
  • AlexTheOriginalPartyDog
    You were awesome in Tequila Sunrise.
  • HappilyBookish
    I wonder with this much publicity, there may be more pressure on the powers that be?  One can hope.  (One can also email / call one's City Council rep, too).
  • AaronRed99
    See above. There is no amount of shaming that will change this behavior.
  • LICnative
    They have to do SOMETHING to keep those scarlet women away from those ultra religious he-hunks. The ladies can't keep their hands off them!
  • Colonel_Ingus
    I gotta say, about 3 months ago I saw this Hasidic woman that was a knockout.  A real head-turning, scratching kind of thing.
  • Japan Communication
    Ahhh, the ol' sneaky "no one really reads Yiddish anymore, right?" trick.
  • Fluffhead513
    Can we get all the MTA buses painted with kickass flames and stuff?
  • Colonel_Ingus
    Is that what that is?  I had just assumed that they were all burning in hell.
  • cr17
    Judaism isn't big on the whole concept of hell.
  • dogbertt
    Giving women second-class status ain't exactly heaven on earth for them, either.
  • AlexTheOriginalPartyDog
    Mel Gibson punched a hole in his wall when he read your post.
  • Colonel_Ingus
    Not their hell;  MY hell.  And I'm BIG on hell.
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