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Arrested City Councilman: This Never Would Have Happened If I Was White

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Jumaane Williams and Kirsten John Foy showing the offical IDs they showed cops before their arrest. (James Thilman/Gothamist)

This morning, huddled at the top of the steps at City Hall in an effort to stay dry, City Councilman Jumaane Williams (D-Brooklyn) and Kirsten John Foy (Public Advocate Bill de Blasio's Community Affairs Director), held a press conference to discuss their arrests after yesterday's West Indian-American Day Parade. After being allowed to pass through two check points near the Brooklyn Museum in Prospect Heights, Williams and Foy were halted and—even after they had properly identified themselves as an elected official and a high ranking government aide—an altercation ensued. "I was actually handcuffed while talking to the chief of police telling him what was going on," recalled Williams, who went on to blast the arresting officers as racially-profiling liars.

Williams and Foy maintain the police are lying about an officer being punched, and that they were detained for their own safety. "If you believe a black person can punch a police officer in this city and nothing happens to him... I defy the NYPD to find one shred of evidence of any police officer being punched in the face," said Williams. When asked if police said anything as the situation escalated, Foy quoted one police officer as saying, "It's over for you. You're done."

As the first public official on the scene, NYC Public Advocate Bill de Blasio described his experience with police at security checkpoints that day very differently. Coming from his home in Park Slope, de Blasio said he too went through several checkpoints, showed similar identification, and entered the frozen zones without a problem. "We were wearing the same pin that day," he said of Williams, pointing to his right lapel, "Police know what this means." He went on to chastise police for violating the rights of "exemplary New Yorkers" who had done nothing wrong, and took the opportunity to call for reforms to police procedures like stop-and-frisk.

Kirsten John Foy said he intends to use his experience to highlight long-standing problems revolving around stop-and-frisk and marijuana arrests, which disproportionately affect young black and Latino men in New York City. Both have been a divisive issue in New York for decades, and Williams is a long-time advocate for revising police practices. “I commend the police commissioner for his leadership on many issues. He has kept us safe," Foy said, but, "That leadership has not trickled down to the ranks and file leadership

Rev. Al Sharpton was rumored to attend today's presser, but didn't show up. (Maybe he was detained en route?) Here's his statement:

National Action Network condemns the improper and forceful arrests of Councilman Jumaane Williams and Kirsten John Foy, Director of Community Affairs for New York City Public Advocate Bill de Blasio, at the West Indian Day Parade on Monday, September 5th, and are urging strong disciplinary action against the arresting officers. Both Councilman Williams and Mr. Foy are members of the National Action Network and have worked closely with the organization on issues pertaining to police misconduct and racial profiling.

According to witnesses and the victims themselves, there was unequivocally no basis for the forceful arrests of the duo who were attending the parade as advocates representing the City of New York. NAN will closely monitor any and all action taken by the NYPD in this case and will mobilize the community in protest if the disciplinary actions are not strong enough.

Still mum on the events, Mayor Bloomberg arrived as the conference came to a close and slipped past the press into City Hall before he could be asked to comment, but NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly has launched an investigation into the incident.

Contact the author of this article or email tips@gothamist.com with further questions, comments or tips.

Comments [rss]

  • Guest
    Case of pot calling the kettle black.  Tee hee.  Get it?
  • JackBrat72
    "This Never Would Have Happened If I Was White!"
    YES! The 'Council-mon' is right about that!! 
    . . .and that's because white people are not so quickly offended by the Police. . . 

    When the Police ask people to move on because the sidewalk is closed to pedestrian traffic. . . well- White people usually comply- and don't end-end up getting handcuffed for the safety of all involved so that the issue at hand can be properly addressed and resolved.  
  • Gadea
    Why not give the cops a break?
    All in all they go they do a great job, going where angels fear to tread.
    Victims and predators live side by side, with only the NYPD to keep the peace.
  • ed_Ex2
    I wasn't there so I have no idea what allegedly happened.

    However, when the NYPD show their ID and tin to the Secret Service after
    a Secret Service Captain tells his agents NO ONE, NOT EVEN THE POLICE CAN PASS, guess what?
    Even the NYPD can't pass thru.

    Councilman with IDs are no exceptions. In fact, it's a bit egotistical
    to think they can "pass" based on their political "knighthood." Get over yourselves, you're a councilman, not the Mayor or the President.

    This is not a good leadership. You don't go all over waving your city id badge around demanding entry. Leadership is leading people not setting bad examples by way of misusing your "political rank."
  • Sorry but the council rules the police not the other way around.
  • ed_Ex2
    Councilmen make laws, they do not enforce them.
  • Yes but law enforcement must answer to elected officials. And besides no laws were being broken.
  • ed_Ex2
    I agree. However, if an area is locked down and no one is allowed to pass and try and push your way thru, you're gonna get cuffed.
  • No non official could go through. Williams is an elected official representative of NYC. He also had valid ID that would exempt him from a temporary "no walk zone". No difference between him and another elected official like the Mayor. Also Ray Kelly is a non-elected civilian, he is not an MOS, would he be allowed to pass to take a shortcut to a meeting? The cops just went too far on this one.
  • ed_Ex2
    Not if the chain of command, the captain of the police in charge of security, says no one can pass.
  • canofpeas
    It's a problem they created, but let's continue to blame everyone else for their inability to control their sense of entitlement and for-the-camera machismo.  Nearly 100 people were shot in NY this weekend, and over 90% of them were most likely black, and these narcissists can only focus on themselves.  That pretty much sums up the quality of leadership in the African American community.
  • It more accurately sums up the intolerance and racism on the part of people like you.
  • canofpeas
    Always mention intolerance and racism to cover your clueless ass.
  • Do you really deny that their is racism, discourtesy and intolerance in the NYPD?
  • canofpeas
    Who can deny the police are all of the above?  If you read their online blog you can easily draw that conclusion.  But I don't think you could categorize what I had written as racist or intolerant.  I saw the video- any physical provocation of the NYPD despite your color (unless you're Hasidim) and the gentleman arrested did bump the cop, always leads to arrest.  Do the police arrest more people of color?  Absolutely, but because that is the case it doesn't necessarily mean all people of color who are arrested would not have been if they were white.
  • proudliberal1947
    I agree and I stated so yesterday.

    Question why? wasn't his Council ID credentials Excepted?

    Why? when a call was placed to the Police chief / Supervisor wasn't his ID accepted, NO, if he was WHITE he was right, all others are TRASH.

    This was and is a OUT and OUT case of RACISM, the MAIN ingredient of the NYPD. Hey! remember the Black man reaching for his Wallet, and wound up with 22 rounds pumped into him because the SCUM BAGS of NYPD's finest felt AFRAID.

    No, to many BS excuses, this was and is OUT and OUT RACISM and we White Inbred Trailer Trash are going to show you Uppity Black Folk we is in charge.
  • Cat1982
    There are so many things that are stupid with this post I lost count. First, inbred trailer trash? This isnt Appalachia you freak. Second? NYPD is 52% minorities. Third? Did you watch the video- dude got in a cops face, it doesn't matter who you are. Fourth? Someone else was right, it wouldnt have happened if he was white because a white councilman would have been polite and respectful, and not had some Al Sharpton type loser with him to start trouble. Fifth? Why don't you go to this parade next year and see for yourself the violent sh*tshow that it is. Then you can come back from behind your Macbook (if you havent been shot) and talk about all the wonderful diversity you experienced while there.
  • You must live in a lily white enclave. Keep your head in the sand I don't think you could deal with reality.
  • benrubs
    To all the posters asking why Council Member Williams doesn't address the violence in the community, that was the first thing he addressed if you read his full statement:

    http://www.sheepsheadbites.com...
  • aspiringrapper
    If you were white, or if you followed directions from law enforcement.
  • Albert Davis
    which they did by showing ID
  • aspiringrapper
    To get in. Yes. To get out?  Not so sure....tell me you've never hopped a fence before?
  • Gepap
    read the story - they were allowed to pass two previous checkpoints. The notion that a councilman would not be allowed to exit is absurd.
  • Park_ing
    Yeah the police are ridiculously racist - me and two white friends were sitting on a bench drinking beers after the parade while they were CHATTING with us.  If we were black we would've immediately gotten tickets or even arrested.
  • Albert Davis
    Damn straight.  Happened to me and I'm no hood person. One they I'll create a machine to switch everyone's races to the opposite.  muhahahaha
  • m015094
    There are 51 city councilmen in NYC - each making $112,500 BASE salary. 

    Time to trim the fat.
  • m015094
    Maybe Sharpton didn't show up because he have some 'splanin' to do about the actual violence at the parade. 

    It's easier to call the NYPD racist - a force that is made up of 52.3% minorities.
  • bggb
    The NYPD racially profiles.

    This is objectively and statistically true.

    Carry on.
  • m015094
    Go ahead and tell a black cop that he is racially profiling his own race and see what he says.
  • bggb
    Your hypothetical is a fun game, but the racial profiling numbers are what they are.

    Perhaps, as you seem to be suggesting, the stop and frisks that overwhelming target minorities are only being perpetrated by white cops.
  • m015094
    Maybe the cops (even the minority cops) do stop and frisk in high crime areas - which, guess what, tend to be black.

    Is that a self fulfilling prophecy? Maybe. 

    But, I've been stopped by the police in my neighborhood (I'm white, my neighborhood is mostly Hispanic).  Did I cry racism?  Nope, I simply stopped answer a few questions from the cops (one was black and one was Hispanic) and I went on my business. 

    The problem is that black people constantly try to play the victim.  Poor, poor, black people.  And then they answer by shooting and stabbing people - like this past weekend.
  • bggb
    Attempting to compare or equate the experience of white person and a black person in this city or country is completely worthless.
  • Guest
    That sounds real intelligent. I wont comment on it because it is all BS. I see stop and frisks often. I have been stopped and frisked. And I like it to happen because I'm not some prissy sensitive liberal and I don't carry a gun. Which one are you?
  • bggb
    NYC cops racially profile.

    This obviously doesn't effect your life, so, carry on not having to care about it.
  • Guest
    It's not racially profiling, more like geo-profiling. If your in a neighborhood of high crime, your more likely to get stopped. I grew up lived and now work in a high crime neighborhood in NEW YORK CITY-38 years. So I have been stopped a bunch of times. The stops have affected my life. In a POSITIVE way. I haven't had to beat any intruders into my house with a pipe in a long time(1997). I don't carry a diving knife, I used to get off the subway and grab a 16oz styrofoam cup of boiling hot water from the deli. That was for my walk home at 5am, and I used it, that's right I threw it in a low life scumbags face when he tried to rob me then I beat his ass while he screamed for help. I don't necessarily need the cops for protection, but I like my new softer lifestyle.  I feel safe walking in my neighborhood, so if your negatively impacted...Suck it up Life isn't fair. Ever listened to a police scanner? Try in a bad are near the projects, where most of these stops occur. You know what you hear? Black/Hispanic male 20-30 wearing black hooded sweatshirt. You will hear that every 5-10 minutes most of the day. Try addressing that instead of whining about your life being affected.
  • bggb
    I am duly in awe of the fact that you survived the 70s and 80s.

    As someone who moved here in the 90s you are a more legitimate NY'er than me.

    Moving on, we should consider not treating minority neighborhoods like everyone is a criminal.

    I live quite near the projects, and yet none of my non-white neighbors have any more reason to be stopped by the police than I do.

    Yet I walk around untouched, and they're all treated like criminals.
  • Guest
    Well for that you can blame NYC, NYS, and the Federal government which created housing projects. Projects are self propelled crime producing breeding ground for poverty and suffering. I've often heard people in the projects say I've lived here for 20, 30, 40 years. That is the fault of a soft hearted liberal making it possible for people to slowly get used to having no hope. Well meaning liberals who think they are helping out the poor are to blame for the high crime in those areas. Just like a parent who spoils their kids, the liberal who votes for more public housing, food stamp raises and free healthcare for those that don't work will doom those people from ever having to try to make it in life.
    That's reality, the base nature of the human being will allow them to wallow in the filth of public housing, because it is easier than working saving and getting out.
  • bggb
    If you think poverty and crime wouldn't be as big of an issue if there weren't housing projects you are sorely mistaken. There are areas all over the country that disprove this.

    If you actually knew people from the projects you'd know that many of them hate being poor and on welfare and would prefer to be self-sufficient and not have to suffer the indignity of going to the welfare office once a month.

    Many would love to have decent jobs, but again, the problems of poverty and unemployment in this country are complicated.

    Unfortunately for angry conservatives, it's not as simple as "poor people are lazy and like being on welfare".

  • Guest
    I'm not talking generalities or poverty on a national scale. Nope. Experience. My family lived in projects when I was a kid. Mom was on food stamps, dad was in jail.  Life sucks in Public Housing. I was embarrased when my mom had to take out food stamps, and promised never to do that to my kids. She never got off welfare, she died just like she lived in shit, that some FDR liberal program created.  I still have friends who's family lives in the projects(Dekalb and Lewis) When we moved to a better neighborhood projects were two blocks away. Now I have a business a few block from the projects. Build more projects. People will destroy them just like they destroyed the ones we have today. Its a failed social experiment. I am not angry about it it just doesn't work. 50,60,70 years of projects prove that.
  • bggb
    the cycle of poverty is by no means contained to projects.

    in cities where they tore down projects and made the tenants disperse nothing changed.

    people are not happy to stay on welfare, contrary to your earlier point.
  • Guest
    Happy to stay on welfare? No not happy. But they will do it because they are allowed. That is the point welfare has no end of the line. In cities where they tore down projects I don't know about I don't live there. Here in our projects, crime lives on. Not like it did in the eighties when cops wouldn't go into the projects in my area without 5-10 cars in a train. Thanks to stuff like stop and frisk. Sounds like you live in a gentrified area, probably lot's of character. Once in a while you might meet someone who lived ther for 50 or 60 years. Ask them if the cops should back off. My neighborhood isn't recent transplants we want to keep Stop and Frisk. Its not funny when your older relatives get their asses beat by some young kid walking back from the store. If crime picks up again I will deal with it. I still possess plenty of strenght to swing a pipe. I can still defend me and my neighbors like I used to.
    I wonder though. If they end stop and frisk, and the kids from the projects really go all out and start beating the shit out of new Brooklynites and sometimes killing them. Will they have the back bone to stay without this aggresive police force that made it possible for them to live here? Do people really think bad areas just got better because people stopped robbing and stealing?
  • bggb
    I'd prefer not to go into detail online about where I live, but Bushwick or Prospect Heights I do not live in, if you know what I mean.

    I have black neighbors who've been here their whole life. I live between two of the bigger housing projects in the borough.

    Not sure what any of this has to do with anything though.

    Yes, crime and poverty is complicated. A lot of older folks liked Giuliani's tactics b/c it got the drug dealers off their street.

    But that doesn't make it good policy in the big picture. It just means that everyone's priorities are different and that solving social problems are hard.

    Excessive police force. Racial profiling. Stop and frisk. Excessive drug laws. All these things make us less safe, not more safe.

    It gets a drug dealer off the street, it also ensures he's go no other paths in life once he gets out.

    A troubled teenager might go from a kid with anger issues to a career felon, instead of getting job training, guidance, a stable community.

    It's simply not as simple as you want it to be. People don't stay on welfare b/c it's easy. People don't commit crime b/c they live in projects. And Giuliani-style tactics have massive drawbacks that many people refuse to recognize.
  • Guest
    Can't throw out the old TV til you get a new and better one. If someone has a better way for reducing crime I'm all for it. 25 years ago those areas looked like a war zone in another country. Giuliani didn't invent those tactics he just took credit. They work right now. When I look around I see proff of that all over.
  • bggb
    I think there are better, less counterproductive ways to do it.

    Obviously I'm talking a little philosophically here, but we need to not rely on jail as our cure all.
  • m015094
    You're right.  Blacks have more opportunities than whites.  Look who is President. 

    Too bad most blacks fail to utilize those opportunities.
  • bggb
    We have a black president! We're in post-racial America!
  • m015094
    We should be.  Listen to Morgan Freeman about it:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

    Of course, you'll probably call him an Uncle Tom  or something.
  • bggb
    NYC cops racially profile. This disproportionately effects minorities and is part of larger incarceration and punishment problems we have as a country.

    I don't care what Morgan Freeman has to say about it.
  • These guys remind me of the preachers in black neighborhoods. Dress sharp, talk slick, rob your community blind. The game is perfect because you always have whitey to blame for any and all troubles. Nobody in the community bats an eyelid as they continue their corrupt shell game. Their real victims? Their own people.

    Want to go big? Become a professional race-baiter. Get in cops faces (bad idea) rustle feathers, a few amens here, blame whitey there, the money flows in from local businesses to little old black ladies who themselves can't trust whitey but can trust these nice young men. Sorry granny they are robbing you. Sorry dry cleaners they are robbing you. Who loses? their communities. Violence increases as they move away to a big home in NJ. But it's all whiteys fault.

    Chest bumping a police officer and we wonder why he was arrested?? huh? He is lucky to be alive. Nobody of any color should ever go there. Grievances with the police are mediated in the court system. What morons.

    All whitey's fault. Rinse and Repeat.
  • bggb
    Your understanding of what it's like to be born poor and black is impressive.
  • Cat1982
    Lol. A hilarious distraction from what is clearly a mess in his own backyard. Its amazing to me how little black people care about black on black violence. People are killing eachother left and right and this is what he's whining about after acting like a thug and getting in a cops face? Serve your people and worry about their lives before you worry about whatever entitlements you think you deserve as some lowlife nobody politician.
  • grandeur1
    yeah, didn't people get SHOT this weekend?  Killed?  and the news is making a big deal out of this.  of course.
  • petey2
    DId the councilman show his ID, or did he show his badge and try to portray himself as a police officer, and when he was caught in his lie, wasn't cooperative? I don't know I wasn't there.
  • The ID badge is NOT a police badge nor would anyone who reads it think that it is. Many official NYC badges look similar. A sunburst design with an eagle. Even a NYS EMT's can have badges that look like that. A cops  badge looks that way because it too is an official NYC badge. The NYPD does not have a monopoly on that design. And police should answer to elected officials not the other way around.
  • Gepap
    Councilmen get badges that go with official ID's. Why would he claim to be a cop when he is a Councilman and thus has a much higher status? Who lies down their position?
  • LICnative
    Why would a City Councilman wear a badge? They're purchased from civilian vendors, the NYPD is responsible for issuing them an Id Card, nothing more. So why would someone purchase such an implement, simple ego masturbation or something else?

    Maybe some politicians are trying to gain an unlawful advantage by slinging a little fake tin around.
  • Gepap
    If you have a valid ID, you can have a badge, as long as it is not a copy of a police badge or another badge, and any officer should be able to differetiate between a shield and any other badge. Any officer incapable of differentiating between a shield and another badge shouldn't be on the force, and having a badge with the correct ID is not a crime under any sort of statute, so I fail to get your complaint.
  • LICnative
    You as a citizen can also get a badge. The badge can say anything, including "Girl Watcher", "bikini inspector" or "Play that funky music whiteboy". It has as much legal weight as that stupid city council badge. If it's useless, why have it? It's not issued by the city, the employer of record. It's being used to imply some legal power that the councilman doesn't have. Obviously the badge didn't work on that cop. He was denied entry wasn't he?

    Good job officer, hold that line!
  • They are/were issued by the city.
  • Yeah!  And he claim to be Barack Obama or Ray Kelley, and then get caught in a lie? I don't know, but it's a fair question!!!!
  • "It's over for you. You're done." Well this means you took it to far and are now going to the tombs.  Trust me.  I have heard more than one cop say those exact words.  Going by the video the two gentleman should have heeded the cops warning.  Its very simple walk away call (text) whoever is in charge get them to do something about it.  Yes I know they should have been let in but 64(?) people were shot this weekend obviously these cops are on edge.  Listen,cops (dumb or smart) are human beings.  I would be on edge if people where "poppin" off randomly.
  • I live in Bklyn and Jumaane is not a good councilman.  He divides his district and is not fighting for all of his contituents equally.  He is a rable rouser and is being trained in the Al Sharpton school of dishonesty. His leadership in Bklyn is "so exemplary" that a teen boy cannot go to a school playground to play basketball without getting shot to death by one of the gang members Jumaane has failed to stop running around and destroying his district. And funny how Anthony Weiner and other white local Bklyn pols get thrown out of their positions, but Black pols such as Jumaane get away with stealing money from his district and abusing his office - I guess getting away with something because he is Black he has no problem with. Huh.  His district used to be a very good one in nice neighborhoods, and since he has been Councilman those neighborhoods have gone down hill with upswing of gang activity,drugs, guns.  I am sick of Black pols not taking responsibility for what is going on with black communities. If a community is all black and there is violence, how is that a racial profiling thing??  I will not vote for him again and in in fact I hope he gets thrown out sooner.  He is the racist in his district. He and Sharpton and Kevin Parker are all in bed with each other.  Brooklyn and NYC in general is going to hell in a hand basket from corrupt pols such as Williams.
  • Christine Quinn who doles out the money to each council district doesn't even give Williams a chance. She allows Williams $2.50 per residence in his district. The 45th, which I live in has long needed improvement and we need money to do this. Just across Kings Highway is Lewis Fidler's 46th district. Quinn gives him $10.00 per residence...four times as much as the 45th. Quinn does this because Williams supports some people whom Quinn doesn't like. So because of stupid politics Williams can not get the discretionary money which could be used in many different ways to help the community.  Williams is also not responsible for the gangs or other lowlife youth in his district. He did not bring them here nor does he support them. You say you live in Brooklyn but which council? Some of the most corrupt pols we have had came from the so called good areas of the city. You should be ashamed of your unabashed racial stereotyping and  outright lies.  I am proud to lend a hand, volunteer and do anything that I can to help improve my district. You should do the same and stop hating. If you are not part of the solution then you are the problem.
  • ishtar_79
    So, is he supposed to personally walk the streets of that wretched neighborhood and take out gang members?
  • This neighborhood is far from wretched. It is a wonderful community of varied colors and ethnic backgrounds. I am white, was born here and intend to always stay. This is a great community with neighbors who care.
  • I wish you were wrong. Just look at his district. It's basically a convenient map of where NOT to go in Brooklyn.

    http://www.jumaanewilliams.com...
  • I live in Williams' district. If you don't want to come here we surely won't miss your racist asses. Also we usually win the greenest block in Brooklyn award. Why wouldn't you want to come here?
  • billyjack55
    Ah, the whole thing sounds like a mess.  A solution, for those who think its a white/black thing: Police force made up of blacks only, administered by a black brass.   Let's see where it goes.
  • It would go a lot better than shinhead bald Nazi Kelly and his group of thugs.
  • felixthecat
    Agreed. In fact some are worst bc they don't have to worry about racist charges. Nypd is rotten to the core.
  • M
    Let's focus on all of those murders in the vicinity shall we?

    Perhaps the cops were a little stressed because there were exponentially more murders in Brooklyn over the weekend than any war zone in the world?

    Perhaps the cops were wrong. I am sure we would be screaming just the same if unauthorized civilians put some big shots in danger due to lax security. Also no matter who you are you NEVER yell at a cop. NEVER. You are putting your life on the line. We have a 3 tiered government designed for dealing with mishandling or abuses by the executive branch. The street is not court. Follow orders and take your grievances to the courts. Common sense and the system our country was built upon.

    This is the perfect distraction to the real issue. A BUNCH OF MURDERS in 48 hours.
  • LICnative
    Can anyone cite the law wherein a City Councilman is allowed access to a closed street? The tape didn't lie, one guy thought it was a good idea to go ghetto by getting in a cop's face, screaming and throwing his hands around.

    Act like a gentleman, get treated like a gentleman. Act the fool, it's on you.
  • Gepap
    A street would be closed for OFFICIAL reasons, in order for police to coordinate traffic safely. It isn;t some no mans land. Access is at police discretion, but the NYPD is a City agency, and there would be no valid reason to deny A City Councilman access.

    You also have no reason to claim the Councilman aceted like a "fool" or that the officers acted like "gentlemen". You know what they say about people who make assumptions.
  • LICnative
    They guy on the tape sure acted the fool. He's the guy in the blue shirt. Spin it anyway you want. I never claimed the cops acted like gentlemen, they simply responded to what was in front of them. Would the same actions have taken place if numbnuts in the blue shirt had kept his shit together? Maybe some of our elected officials and their representatives got into the celebratory nature of the day by having a few pops. I don't know, nor do I care. Any idiot knows if you get in a cop's face acting like that, he's going to take action. That action ain't going to be to ask you for the first dance at the policeman's ball. If you aren't smart enough to realize this, you're also too stupid to work in government.

    Should I believe my own lying eyes or rely on your interpetation of what I just saw?

    The Police, not the City Council decide what areas are designated "no man's land"and decides where this wonderful world begins and ends. If they disagree with this decision, both these gentlemen have access to the corridors of power to express their outrage and demand redress. When you demand these things in the street, you get a streetwise response. 

    So tweedledee and tweedledum had to walk around the block to attend the cocktail party. Not exactly a back of the bus moment. Rosa Parks they ain't.
  • But if the same thing happened to your white (I assume) council member would you be OK with that?
  • Gepap
    Sorry, what section of the Penal Law does "acting like a fool" cover?

    As for your last paragraph, you really have no clue about the rules and regulations of this City, do you? This was a crowd control situation, not an active investigation of a crime or ongoing crisis. Yes, the police have certain powers, but they are not and have never been absolute.The point of the barricade is to prevent disorder - letting City officials walk to a location pass several checkpoints isn't going to mean anything, and these guys had already been waived by two checkpoints. Electeds and their staffs get plenty of police deferrence all the time (since the Council in the end decides their paychecks).

    Sadly Williams is probably right - if Peter Vallone Jr. had wated to walk down that sidewalk, he would have had no problems, likely the same with Recchia. I have never heard anything good about Williams as a Councilman, and having worked for the city council before, I know most of them are not the sharpest or cleanest knives in the drawer, but that said, I also have interviewed hundreds of cops at another job, and the bullshit about a police captain getting punched is simply that, total crap. No way someone attacks a Captain (which is what a punch is) and just gets away. And there would be plenty of documentation of such an event.  

    So, when Williams says that this probable happened because he is black (and him and the other guy are likely not friends or friendly to cops anyways), he is likely correct.

    The problem is this asenine assumption that a cop can abuse his power. Cops SERVE the public. Should people be asses to cops? No. Are cops granted the legal power to arrest people who act like asses towards them without breaking the law? NO. That so many in the public are willing to ignore this basic fact is worrying to say the least.
  • LICnative
    Please point out to me the relevant section of the CPL, or penal law where a NYC Councilman is allowed to access streets closed to the general public? It doesn't exist, nor should it. Your state asssemblyman, state senator, City controller or local dogcatcher also doesn't have the right. This may piss you off, but it's also true. Should that City Councilman need FUTURE access to closed streets, he has it within his power to craft such a law and invoke others within the council to vote for it. He will not do so because even this broken body would laugh him out of it's non-august chambers.

    You make several assumptions, the first being that he's allowed to enter, he's clearly not. You also choose to believe that whatever occurred was due to the color of his skin. Your proof of that is what exactly? As to Peter Vallone passing without difficulty, we won't know that until he tries. If you're simply predicting what MAY happen, can I get tonight's powerball numbers ?

    Off I hand I can think of at least two offenses of the penal law that occurred on that tape. Disorderly conduct and Obstructing would immediately come to mind. There's a police barrier and presence for a reason. That reason is to stop people from crossing. You seem to believe that a NYC councilman of all things has an intrinsic, god given right to walk wherever he wants. Who else shouldn't a police line appply to?

    Cops don't "serve the people", they enforce the law and keep the peace. If someone needs to be served, sit in a booth at a restaurant. If someone feels the need to get his ass kicked and locked up, try to force your way into a place where you are excluded by  law enforcement.
  • Gepap
    Sorry, but there is nothing in the Penal law itself about cops having the authority to close streets specifically! Other sections of State law give them the authority, but to invoke the penal law regarding police powers (or criminal procedure law for that matter) makes NO SENSE whatsoever.

    Also, To be guilty of disorderly conduct, you have to actually create a scene that disrupts people OTHER than the cops. Most individuals (it seems you included) fail to understand that basic element of that supposed crime. Disorderly conduct is one of the most abused sections of law by cops. As for obstruction, of what?

    Barriers are put up for a reason, and it is not for cops to get their jollies. The police need A REASON to obstruct the ability of citizens to move about freely. In this case, as with any parade, the point is general public safety by trying to control human traffic flow. Allowing a city official to go by with a few number of people does not endanger anyone or anything. And in fact this happens ALL THE TIME, with every single parade I have ever seen.

    And yes, the police do serve the public. Enforcing the law and keeping the peace is how the serve the public. That is why CPR is their motto (regardless of how little they actually follow it). They are public officers, granted the power of arrest under the assumption they will use it to do the public's bidding.



  • LICnative
    The legal meaning of Disorderly conduct is found in the NYS Penal law under 240.20. It has seven subdivisions. The offenders could have been charged with violating subsections 1,6 or 7. The wording is concrete and not subject to interpetation other than that provided by the courts.

    The public is fickle. The law isn't. That's why the police are in the business of law enforcement, not satisfying the whims of each individual with the need to feel special.

    The councilman chose to make a spectacle of himself. That's his right. It's also his obligation to set an example and pay the price for his street theatre.

    He's lucky that street closing was for a parade, not a presidential appearance. The Secret Service may have had an entirely different response to his bumrushing the gates.
  • You should re read the law. it was the cops who caused inconvenience, called attention to themselves, created a dangerous situation for all involved and basically caused the entire problem. Police should not escalate situations as these slops did. They work for us to prevent trouble, not to be the cause of it.
  • Gepap
    from the Penal law:

    "A  person  is  guilty of disorderly conduct when, with intent to cause  public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a  risk  thereof:"

    Those subsections only matter insofar as they are the instrument by which this first section is breached. Note the inclusion of INTENT. If I am screaming becsause I was shot, I would be making "unreasonable noise", which is subsection 2. But there is no intent to cause public inconvenience, and in that situation, I could not be judged to be creating the risk recklessly.

    Don't speak about the law if you don't really understand it. There is nothing worse that someone who is ignorant yet thinks they speak from a position of knowledge. There is simply no way to deal with such a person.
  • bggb
    Act like a gentleman, get treated like a gentleman.

    Amadou Diallo agrees.
  • NVRMOR
    Great, lets keep running with this idiotic non story, meanwhile 67 people were shot this weekend.  Maybe the council man should try policing his own people.
  • bggb
    Contrary to your experience in the world, the relationship between the NYPD and some communities is actually a huge issue.
  • NVRMOR
    oh so you know what my experience in the world is like?  you have been walking around in my size 15's?  some communities do have an issue with the nypd.  the community of criminals who think its its their right to lawlessness.  and also the community that raises these criminals, and defends their actions.  maybe when your done walking around in my shoes, you should try walking in the nypd's next.
  • bggb
    Here's what I know:

    You don't think police-community relations are a legitimately major news topic.

    For 100,000's of people in this city this is not the case.

    So yeah, get over your own experience.
  • NVRMOR
    Oh, so now you personally know 100,000's of thousands of people?  and each of them have told you of their horrible experiences?  maybe we need some social justice in this city.
  • bggb
    Maybe they do, maybe they don't.

    At least I'm not telling them they're criminals and they shouldn't care about racial profiling.

  • canofpeas
  • as long as people read, and then even comment, it will not be a non-story:-)
  • randomtransplant
    Can we PLEASE get camera's and mic's on the cops uniforms yet?

    Tellers are on camera all day. Office workers have their computer use monitored. Crooks wouldn't avoid prosecution, innocent people would get justice.

    The PD is structurally unable and unwilling to police itself. This kind of shit doesn't have to stand. The solution has been obvious for a long, long time. Any other professional group would have been sanctioned and re-organized by now.
  • Guest
    The slops would only shut them off at every encounter.
  • LtWorf
    Not a good move NYPD. When City Council members show their ID, its best to give them the benefit of the doubt.
  • BKExcuse
    I'm shocked at some people's comments. Did you not watch the video posted earlier? At least one of them was in the cop's faces causing trouble. Just because a concilman doesn't mean you're entitled to special privileges. The police probably had a reason for you not to go into that area and just because some idiots elected you doesn't mean you have the right to question their motives.

    http://gothamist.com/2011/09/0...
  • Council members are elected officials and therefore do have special privileges. The privileges are given to them by the public who votes for them. You just have a problem because Williams and Foy are black. Williams is an elected official of NYC and as such gets and deserves some more privileges than we do. Get a clue and get out of your lilly white world.
  • BKExcuse
    I don't have any problem with councilmen having special privileges, I have a problem when they think they're absolute. They are not above the lay and if an officer gives them a direct and lawful order they must obey it. If they had a problem with it they should have filed a complaint. They should have have refused to listen or gotten in the officers face. Again while they do have some special privileges I'm sure it's not in their charter that one of them is the ability to go wherever they want to during a parade. That's something the police extend to them and can revoke at any time. I would have a problem if any elected official disobeyed a reasonable police order and got aggressive.
  • So why does everyone think that "getting in a cops face" should be a reason to be thrown to the ground and cuffed? ALL elected officials have special privileges that we the people confer on them.
  • Guest
    Stand up for what you believe. Find a cop about your size and get in his or her face. Then explain to the judge you were just exercising your right to get in a cops face. Like it or not cops make you and your family safer wherever you live. You can pretend it's not true, that won't change the fact. You are safer because of a cop doing his job.
  • Been there done that but only because the cop stopped me because I told his operator to watch where he was turning, then he harassed me. The cop got a CD on his record and was required to attend some kind of retraining. Most cops are OK but in the last twelve years or so the quality of the NYPD has gone so far down that I doubt it could get any lower. The cops used to get all of the respect in the world and from me too. It just seems that since the college requirement came in, too many young and inexperienced (in life) cops came on the job. When I was a kid, the cops were great and almost everyone of them was ex military with self discipline, control and courtesy. There are just too many substantiated stories lately about the abuse of power and lack of courtesy that today's NYPD has. I think that it all starts with Ray Kelly.
  • Guest
    Oh yeah no doubt removing the education requirements and lowering the starting pay had an effect, There are plenty of cops on the street who want to do a good job.
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