I've seen soo many bodegas in NY with cats that live inside the store. Their sole function is to kill mice and rats (and perhaps companionship). Should we go after them as well?

More dogs! Less rats!

All I heard in my head as I was reading the PETA comments was "DERP DERP HURRRR", mainly because they're generally idiots when they try and "protect" the animals.
Animals hurting other animals is bad! Ignoring the fact that it worked pretty damn well before we bothered making space and taking up land that they lived on.
If PETA has such a problem with what's going on with animals presently, maybe we should do them a favor and put them down, so they don't have to suffer, just like they do to "save" thousands of animals.

Dont' kill rats. Train your dogs to catch them live and then pack them up and take them to PETA. Let them deal with them if they are so concerned with their well being.

You see what just happened there? This was a fun exchange, but it came at the cost of actually discussing the issue at hand, viz, whether or not it is morally permissible to harm sentient creatures. I asked you for your reasons, and you gave none. Instead, our conversation deteriorated into a monosyllabic tit-for-tat. Farewell, reason!

you are both "depraved and sadistic", so you both win!

here's the nut:
there are no morals in the animal kingdom. there are no "good" or "bad actions". it is kill or be killed. to suggest otherwise is to irrationally bequeath our unique, human capacity for reason and justice onto animals.

now, make believe is fun so go ahead and enjoy yourself if thats your pleasure. i'd rather go out drinking. bye now.

"here's the nut:
there are no morals in the animal kingdom. there are no "good" or "bad actions". it is kill or be killed. to suggest otherwise is to irrationally bequeath our unique, human capacity for reason and justice onto animals."

Now we're on to something! I am not suggesting that nonhuman animals are capable of high level reasoning or have a sense of justice (although studies in primatology have established both). That, however, does not say anything about whether or not it is right to cause them suffering. For example, human babies and the severely cognitively impaired also aren't able to reason, yet (I think you would agree) it would be wrong to cause them pain. But why? Well, because they are sentient (just like many nonhuman animals) and pain is bad.

You seem to be suggesting that moral status has something to do with intelligence - it doesn't. Just look at your own moral standards. I doubt that you would find it acceptable to harm a baby or someone who is cognitively disabled or your dog just because they're not "intelligent."

So, the point is that sentience is what determines whether something belongs to the moral sphere - cognitive skills do not.

Wrong. Humans are at the top of the food chain and are superior beings. This gives us the RIGHT to kill these animals indiscriminately and with extreme prejudice.

So, by your logic, if a super-intelligent alien race that feeds on humans comes to Earth to enslave us, it would be their "right" to use us for food.

Exactly. You are finally getting it. There is hope for you after all.

Lolz! I love how you'd prefer to accept an absurd consequence of your view rather than admit that your theory of rights might need to be tweaked.

How does it feel to be hoist by your own petard?

Philistines such as yourself just bore me. Intellectually speaking.

Lolz. This is fun. Since you're too thick to work this out on your own, let me help:

You do realize that if the hypothetical super-aliens came to earth to enslave you, it would be, according to your theory, wrong for you to try to stop them (because doing so would be a violation of their rights).

Lolz. Thick as shit.

P.S. A "philistine" is someone who is ignorant of culture or art. Since we weren't discussing either, the term doesn't apply. I have a nice dictionary I can send you, if you like.

Culture encompasses its own morality. I do realize it would be wrong to stop the aliens.

drink for me. i have to save money to pay the friggin' rent. hah

haha, i live in the ghetto just so i can afford beer money. a man's gotta have his priorities! salute!

that's because reasons do not rule human beings, in the end. farewell reason, indeed.

"that's because reasons do not rule human beings, in the end."

A perfect Tea Party slogan (albeit ESL Tea Party) if ever there was one.

you keep using "reason" as a shield for your argument, but your responses are not reasonable to say the least. they're purely made of a self-defense mechanism based on your emotions.

why are you preaching "reason" to others if you are not following it yourself?

The problem with the 'sentient' guideline is that not all humans are sentient and it seems some plants may be. Peta is a strange organization. They claim to protect animals from abuse and harm but they put so many animals 'down' its a joke..