ACLU Sues Jersey Town for Starting Meetings with Prayer

Since the 1990s, local council members in Point Pleasant Beach have begun their meetings with the hit Christian prayer "The Lord's Prayer." And then along came local resident Sharon Cadalzo, who regularly attends council meetings and isn't a fan of "The Lord's Prayer" kicking things off. So she's gotten the New Jersey chapter of the ACLU to file a lawsuit to stop the tradition, which the ACLU says is forbidden by the Constitution.

"People of all faiths and beliefs should feel welcome at public meetings," says Cadalzo, who is Jewish. "It's a matter of fairness. No member of the community should feel that their beliefs exclude them from public life." And Jeanne LoCicero, ACLU-NJ Deputy Legal Director, says "The prayer recited at Point Pleasant Beach council meetings is one of the most extreme examples we have seen of an explicit preference for Christianity."

Local officials insist one has complained, even though Caldazo claims she has repeatedly complained. An attorney for Point Pleasant Beach says, "When this practice began, there was no intent to discriminate against any religion. The folks were doing what they knew." But while the lawsuit's pending in New Jersey Superior Court, the council members haven't got a prayer, and that's just fine by Caldalzo, who tells Fox 5, " 'Our father' is not my father. My father lives on Long Island."

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By John Del Signore in News on September 21, 2010 5:05 PM

Comments [rss]

fuboy

Heh, I was having dinner with some family friends a few weeks ago and just before supper, they bowed their heads and said the lord's prayer. I just stayed silent, with my head bowed and hands clasped, respecting their way of life. I couldn't even remember the words.

I think that's the right approach in a social situation, but this is a town meeting. You can't just plow ahead with what you believe and let everyone else sit an corner until you're done.

Sketto

Excellent observation. I too would respect someone's religion and prayers and keep my opinions to myself while in their home and at their dinner table.

However, in America, those same believers are required - not asked, but REQUIRED - to follow U.S. law and keep that same private religious practice out of our government, which by law endorses no religion, not even the nice n friendly ones.

potsmoker

imagine some small upstae ny town where amajority of civic leaders were muslim.

they start off each session with prayers to allah and do some wierd handshake thing and say something in arabic and theres a required learned response in this equally unfamiliar language,

a lot of people cant wrap their heads around this concept that its wrong because they are obviously christians, a jew would feel why should we have the lords prayer at the start of a civic govt sesion if that excludes me from participating. an atheist feels the same way,

no i will never swear on a bible or say a prayer in a group, i will never close my eyes and bow my head even to play along.

because i dont believe in magic fairytale sky gods.

potsmoker

im offended that JDS would even use the word "tradition" to describe this. the prayer is not voluntrary.

its a govt session, as long as you dont stand/kneel,

sing along and wave your hand like the cross and say amen at the end, its a sure fire way of knowing who to exclude from govt,

its been established long before the 1990s that this kind of behavior is not acceptable in a govt session.

John Clavis

It should be obvious there's no God. ides_of_march is still alive and posting shit.

Opening anything with a prayer is the equivalent of writing "DUMBASS" across your forehead while shitting on the Constitution and inviting terrorists to come blow up your local mall. Get over yourselves, you idiots. You were lied to as children. God is a stupid explanation for anything.

reality4u

Has anyone every asked themselves, why doesn't god heal amputees?_The bible states that god answers every prayer yet statistically we know that's not true....none are every answered. christians don't have longer life spans, have lower cancer rates etc. there is absolutely no evidence that prayer changes anything....not my opinion, just a mathmatical fact. god is a delusion. http://www.youtube.com/user/GIIVideo#p/u/11/BH0rFZIqo8A

###

http://www.youtube.com/user/GIIVideo#p/u/4/jk6ILZAaAMI

Our loving god commands us to:

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20__

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10__

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16__

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

READ YOUR BIBLE CHRISTIANS! You need to know what it really says. The more Christains that actually read their book of hate filled fairy tales, the more athiest's there will be...and we will all live in peace.

IMAGINE NO RELIGION!

robingee

Whenever I ask Christians about this, they tell me that all of the "bad" stuff was Old Testament and they go by the New Testament.

Guest

And what's wrong with them saying that? I would rather a religious person follow the good parts of their text than to be a fundamentalist and follow EVERY part of their text.

robingee

I'm just telling you what they said. Is it true? What are the differences in Old and New? Who wrote the New? Do they just change "The Word Of God" whenever they want? Who sanctioned this? Does the New still say that gays are evil?

Guest

You'll have to ask them. I have my own beliefs and they have theirs.

robingee

I do ask them! That's my point!

(And I never get any clear answers. Ever.)

Guest

No, you don't get any clear answers that you approve of. There's a difference. Asking questions when you have an agenda is the same thing FOX news does.

Sketto

The Bible was written by men, so please describe how "divine inspiration" works. Is god an editor?

Either way, you still have morality being written down by people and accepted (or not) by other humans who read it - just as you apparently dismiss the clearly immoral things in the bible and respect the parts you like. You're a moral person. You don't need a god to validate it.

Guest

Even Stephen Hawking has given the idea of divine inspiration credibility. Do you know where each and every thought that comes into your head comes from? Do you know exactly why we have the ability to do what we do and the lower animals do not? Do you completely understand everything? If so, good for you. If not, I don't see why you have to dismiss the posibility of a higher being. Is it to make you feel better about your views towards the bad parts that religion brings to society? Hell, everything has a good and a bad side. EVERYTHING.

Sketto

Ah, so by divine inspiration you mean "people do not create all of their own thoughts, but that god puts thoughts in people's heads that they couldn't think on their own". Hmm. No evidence for that at all, which I find problematic when proposing wild theories.

And yes, I do know where the thoughts in my head come from - from my head, from me. Your thoughts come from you. The writers of the bible were people with thoughts, too, just like you and me. No need to invent fantastic explanations. The true story is amazing enough. We are moral without god.

Guest

Fine. You want to keep believing that you know everything. Go ahead. I'm sure it will take you far in life and not alienate anyone whatsoever. But also know that there's no evidence to the contrary, so there! :P

Sketto

I would rather they honestly admit that it is all made up rather than pretend that only the nice parts are from god. And if you're allowed to use rational judment to dimiss some of it, then use that same judgment to admit that all of it, even the moral parts, were written by men. Then we'd be forced to face the fact that, just possibly, we can have true human morality without these god-enforced fairy tales at all.

To sum up: the bible is not the basis of morality; humans are.

Guest

What if you're wrong? About there being no God part? I agree with you that morality comes from humans, but that doesn't mean they didn't have divine inspiration. I mean, if you know everything there is to know about the scientific universe, that would be one thing, but I'm guessing you don't. Even if you did, those "facts" get rewritten just about every day. I sure hope you can keep up.

I also agree that separation of church and state is extremely important. I would hate to see this country end up as a theocracy.

John L

I don't see anything wrong with a few moments of QUIET prayer time where anyone can pray to whatever their God is or think of the weather or their shopping list if they don't have a God. Maybe people shouldn't subject others to listen to their prayers but at the end of the day listening to a 30 second prayer really shouldn't be such a big deal either, unless they're forcing you to take part but if it makes others uncomfortable then they should just have a quiet 30 seconds and that's that.

Sketto

Amen, brother. Prayer is awesome. Go knock yourself out with private prayer.

But the religious are not happy keeping it to themselves. They want their particular religious rules taught in public schools, affixed to the walls in public buildings, and promoted by elected government officials through government-funded programs. It never stops with merely "a moment of private prayer".

And thus, you have those people like the woman in this story, who guard against religion-creep at every turn and call it what it truly is - a private fantasy that has no place in public government.