Why Do New Yorkers Hate Cyclists?

Who hates cyclists?

We just hate stupid people that don't follow traffic patterns and cause problems to our urban environment - goes for cars too.

As a NYC cyclist and I agree the statements made in this blog by – I couldn’t have put it better myself. Unfortunately cyclists are still the step-child of transportation alternatives in this city. We have made strides and are more and more prevalent on the streets, and the Bloomberg Administration has supported us more than any administration before, but we have a long way to go.

I once explained to a non-biking friend what biking in the city is like and had to explain how I follow the law, except in times when it puts my life in danger – such as cars, trucks, food carts, cargo and pedestrians in the bike lane or taxis cutting me off and causing me to swerve in to rush hour traffic on Sixth Ave. I also personally find it safer to ride on the left hand side of one-way roads to avoid car doors, and I avoid Times Square and Herald Square by all means possible, even if they do have designated "bike lanes"!

We ALL need to learn how to follow the laws propererly, and I feel the only way we can do that is through proper education and enforcement. NYC DOT should consider a bike safety campaign educating pedestrians, cyclists and motorists on the laws and responsibilities of riding. I also feel we need to start ticketing motorists for being in bike lanes, cyclists for salmoning down the street (this is my BIGGEST pet peeve, especially delivery people) and pedestrians – well we might be SOL on that one.

The author did an exceptional job of getting his point across that we all play a role in this, while keeping the piece objective. Please take a look whether you are a pedestrian, cyclist or motorist and you may see a different side to the story, I sure did.

http://theguardrailblog.blogspot.com

Completely agree. It's actually pretty insulting being a law abiding cyclist in this city and being grouped into people who obviously have no regard for pedestrians and cars.

"I also feel we need to start ticketing motorists for being in bike lanes, cyclists for salmoning down the street (this is my BIGGEST pet peeve, especially delivery people) and pedestrians – well we might be SOL on that on."

What people don't realize is that when cars do this it's putting my life at risk. For them it's just annoying, for me if a cab door opens because they are unloading in a bike lane, that can mean a trip to the ER.

I hold the unfortunate belief that people who are outspoken about bikes don't have the will to see if from the other perspective.

Or maybe it's because New York is full of self-entitled douchebags whether they walk, drive or ride a bike.

You must get spit on a lot right? I mean believe individuals are examples of whole majorities and making judgments on all.

How bought you get the hell out of my city - we don't take too kindly to whiners who hate themselves around these parts.

true that

Was at Herald Square Saturday, and saw a cyclist do a stoppie (planted front brake, rear wheel comes way up), just as an older woman stepped from the sidewalk to cross (she had the light). Practically gave her a friggin' heart attack, and he came within 10" of her when fully stopped. That guy was simply a TOTAL DOUCHE. I'm a motorcyclist, and fully realize how some assholes give all others in their clan a bad rap. This guy needed a beating, preferably from another cyclist.

The Reuters article is a very smart assessment of the current conflict among those choosing different modes of transportation in this city. Worth a read. Quite a bit more enlightening than the Gothamist post/summation or most of the comments on this page.

Anyway, I think it'll get better and we'll all learn how to make room for each other. Be safe and be kind.

-Pangloss

The best solution will piss off everyone, as many fair solutions do - that is, give the bikers their green bike lanes all over the city (which drivers resent) and start ticket blitzing the jerky bikers who flaunt the traffic laws (which too many bikers feel they have a right to ignore). Problem solved. We should encourage biking in NY but seriously penalize illegal biking.

Ticket red light runners who actually cause problems.

If I slow to 5 mph, look both ways, and cautiously procede through while never coming within 10 feet of someone in the crosswalk I'm not endangering anyone.

And if you complain about that, you're really just a whiny bitch.

But, if I blow a light, nearly knocking over old ladies and making cars slam on their brakes, then I'm a dick and I should get a ticket.

If I step out into traffic without looking and nearly walk into a biker who has a green light or is in a green, separated bike lane - I too should get a ticket (or minimum, a light smack to the back of the head). Meanwhile, if I look and see that while technically I don't have the right of way - there is nothing coming. I should be free to cross.

Should I ride on the sidewalk? Of course not. But should I ride at 5 mph to the corner from my front door while no one is around, or if they are courteously alerting them and passing them slowly? Why the fuck not?

Should everyone in cars who doesn't actually come 100% to a complete stop at stop signs get tickets? I don't know. But I do know that I'm far more concerned with people driving at 20mph over the limit and passing me dangerously. Give the tickets to the people who actually cause problems (there are plenty). But not just everyone who bends or breaks a rule.

Is any of this really that tough? Bend the rules walkers and bikers, just not in any case where bending those rules endangers or causes inconvenience to others who have the right of way.

Count how many tickets you could have written in my "RAD"

video...fifty? sixty?

Cops would need fountain pens the size of baseball pens to write that many tickets

Although I do agree you go thru a red light you deserve a ticket

Nah. You get ticketed for breaking the traffic laws. Period. If you break 'em and get away with it, just as drivers sometimes do, that's life. But don't try to justify it by saying you don't "cause problems". That ain't how it works. You take the risk (just like drivers) and you either get away with it (just like drivers), or you're busted (with a ticket you deserve).

Well...

I get away with it. So I guess that's all.

Bicyclists can be so self-righteous that it's hard for me to be sympathetic to their complaints. They want respect and even act as if they are performing a public service. Yet, their gross disregard for the rules of the road -- riding against traffic, blowing through stoplights, using the sidewalk, et. al. -- is just as dangerous as a distracted driver.

Cyclists are dickheads. I'm talking about all you spandex losers. You all have big mouths but turn into a bunch of pussycats when really confronted. I really hope the city makes these losers license, register and insure those POS bikes.

RE: license, register and insure those POS bikes

Really? you have never ridden a bike have you?

no one wears spandex dick nose.

its called lycra.

no matter what you call it it still looks like girdle material...

but.. and a big but

I do respect The BikeSnobNYC

Note to pedestrians: I don't care what you think.

Good. Then when we're instituting new regulations that make your life harder -- since you won't voluntarily abstain from acting like a dickhead -- we won't have to worry about your bitching and moaning about it.

Oh, don't get me wrong -- you'll still bitch and moan about it. Of course you will. But we don't have to care.

You appear to be a presumptuous a*swipe.

What, you can't even say "asswipe?"

Because the moderator may not post it, a*swipe.

Funny, I don't have any problem with that. Maybe he just thinks you're a dick.

Because bicyclists think that the rules should apply to them when it works in their benefit, and that they shouldn't apply when it doesn't.

I see we got some new people on board.

don't worry, it all balances out in the end, this weekend is not even over yet. OK, maybe not really because usually the outcome of a biker is much worse. but if you're in a car crash there's always that chance that you're the one who survives. see that SI crash.

Always the bicyclists divert to car crashes. Cars are not the issue. If bicyclists would obey traffic laws no one would object.

the labor day weekend is not over yet! lots of partay time left!

Why does NYC hate cyclists?

heres a CLUE

At the 3:25 mark they went through a green light without grazing anyone in the cross-walk.

Check it out.

AWESOME VID! Those guys are RAD!

90%* of what is wrong with this post is because you said the word 'rad'

*100%

Understand sarcasm takes time. I know.

You'll get there.

UnderstandING..

i dunno what was so evidently sarcastic about that but ok

The all-caps and exclamation points.

And the use of the word "rad."

i guess its bash bike day at the old age home.

bikes are not cars, its easier to coast through a redlight or stop sign than come to a full brake, then change gears and shift back up to speed only to exert a lot more energy then maybe come to a full stop again at the end of the block.

If cars were designed this way (restart ignition then shift gears up again and again) then youd ony see street lights every ten blocks.

So basically you're saying that it's easier to ignore traffic conventions and endanger pedestrians than it is to inconvenience yourself by changing gears on your bike? Right.

Hmm, they manage to stop at red lights in other countries/areas.

http://www.copenhagenize.com/2010/01/holding-on-to-cyclists-in-copenhagen.html

Yes, pedestrians know that bicyclists always think of what is easier for bicyclists. Bicyclists don't care how many pedestrians they put at risk. This is reckless driving and should be prosecuted.

According to mortality data published by New York State and mileage data published by Transportation Alternatives, it turns out that bicyclists are just as deadly to pedestrians as cars are. Can you imagine that? I wonder why?

Adult cyclists who are caught riding on sidewalks by police should have their bikes confiscated.

I prefer to bike ride where drivers share the road-New York City is not a prime location to enjoy bike riding. Jaywalkers, text messaging dolts, horrific drivers all complicate matters. There are some days when I find pedestrians are worse than bike riders-then there are other days when I think some bike riders are complete idiots. Gothamist needs to get some new material.

Unfortunately, this post can probably be re-hashed and republished in about ten different ways, promising a boost of page views each time.

I notice a lot of bike hate and hostility seems to come from older people who are no longer fit, or people who are culturally constrained from riding bikes. I really think there's a large dose of subconscious jealousy of youth and freedom there. The sad thing is almost all of these people could ride bikes if they'd try it.

yeah man you're right appeal to emotion/attack people. the ONLY reason people don't like bikers is because they're jealous. you're out of your mind

No agism here is there? The problem, quite simply, is that bicyclists don't obey traffic laws and the police don't enforce them. If city council spent half as much time trying to get the police to enforce traffic laws as they do trying to protect bicycle deliverers from harming themselves, pedestrians would be a lot safer.

Obey the traffic laws and no one will object to you.

Or maybe they're just outraged that cyclists today don't feel the need to follow traffic rules.

And this is why I really wish they'd enact some sort of regulations that would make cyclists more responsible for their actions. Make them have license plates, at least, so that when that delivery guy almost barrels into you as he's riding down the middle of the sidewalk, you can take his number and report him.

Like many here have reported, cyclists act as if there are no laws restraining them. An elderly woman in my building was hit by a buy on a bike, it crippled her, permanently.

I've never been hit by them, but many times a day, they are barreling down my sidewalk. If I can, I try to block them, walking somewhat aimlessly and if I'm walking my dog, I make sure the leash extends across most of the sidewalk.

For me, my bete noire are those useless bike lanes. I drive several times a week in the city, mostly on the west side. Weekend day, beautiful weather, the Village, no bikes at all on the roads, 8th Ave, 9th Ave, Washington Street. None. Then, perhaps, an occasional delivery guy; or someone biking, but not in the bike lanes.

(end of bete noire)

I don't know why are they doing like that but I would like to say that. It is going wrong with Cycling person.Nitric Oxide

It's great that the City is finally giving bikers some territorial respect, but it will take a long time to change attitudes. I used to commute up 1st Avenue, which should be easy, but any number of nannies felt free to shove strollers past parked vans in mid-block.

Then there are the pedestrians. I once stopped at a red light in Park Slope to allow peds to cross. "Go ahead," a middle-aged lady proposed. "No, you have the light," I answered, "If you don't go now, you'll hit me," she responded me. Talk about a zero-sum gain....

Peds should be able to feel safe being completely oblivious while walking on the sidewalk - and should not have to look the wrong way to check for bikes when they have a "cross" signal.

But, when their dumb-asses step out into the street against the light, or step out mid-block - they should watch the fuck out- because I might just smack them in the head (try it, it's fun!) as I pass at 20mph on my bike.

Would that the police would pursue your IP address as you have admitted that you assault pedestrians. Unfortunately they will not even ticket you when you run the next red light going the wrong way on a one way street.

Yes. Would that, indeed! Well said, old boy!

did you see xwendakar's post 10:09am? what's that then?

Let me reiterate some stats posted above. But first a word:

Hey Bike hating morons: Biking is a legitimate form of transportation. And yet every time I bike I find that my life is threatened by small-cocked freaks in their loud ass cars. So I bike defensively, which might mean cutting on to the sidewalk. If Flatbush Ave is all I got to get from point A to point B, there is no way I am risking my life by following the rules since the rules are made for cars and not for anyone else. So, suck it up drivers or else fight for better laws.

Here, btw, are the stats. Read them. Soak them in. And then ask why you are whining:

here is the stats from 2008 for bikes from the DMV:

Total Accidents from bikes 5,646

Fatal Accidents 41 (this is usually accidents due to cars killing bikers)

Non-Fatal Personal Injury Accidents 5,563

Reportable Property Damage Accidents 42

Here is the stats for 2008 for cars:

Total Accidents 316,231

Fatal Accidents 1,160

Non-Fatal Personal Injury Accidents 134,894

Reportable Property Damage Accidents 180,177

Dear moron,

When you take bicycle rides times miles per ride (compliments Transportation Alternatives) you get total miles traveled by bicycle. Try it. It has been a couple years since I last did. When you do that you will find that the deaths (to PEDESTRIANS, bicyclists can kill themselves all they want, I don't care) (you can find this number as the NY State Dept of Transportation website, for bicycles you have to average over several years as the number is quite small, but because the number of bicycle trips is growing quickly, you are actually underestimating the number of pedestrian deaths per bicycle mile) per 100,000 miles traveled is within a few tenths of a decimal point of the same as deaths to pedestrians for automobiles. You don't have to believe me, you can do the math. THAT IS RIGHT, BICYCLES KILL PEDESTRIANS EVERY BIT AS MUCH AS CARS DO, ONCE YOU CONSIDER TRIP-MILES.

Now we know that automobiles have a huge weight advantage in killing those they encounter. So why are bicyclists killing just as many people? The answer is divided into two parts. FIRST, bicyclists tend to BE where pedestrians are (on the sidewalk, in the intersection when the light is red, etc.). SECOND, bicyclists are entirely narcissistic, they only care about what is of concern to THEM. Look at comment 56 below, for example, or look at the video linked at comment 61.

If you narcissist bicyclists would get a clue, pedestrians would stop hating you.

You and pedestrians are not "forced into the same marginal area." That area is OURS and you are illegally invading it. GET OUT.

Your lack of understanding of how to use the caps lock key confirms that you are no more than a raving lunatic. Probably got a tinfoil hat, too.

Yep...this is why.

So you "bike defensively" by putting other people at risk. You know what you're supposed to do if the street is too dangerous to ride on? No, not "ride down the sidewalk with the pedestrians." Get off the fucking bike, dude. Walk, if you're too scared to ride. But don't endanger other people.

No one disputes that there should be safer areas for bikes to ride. And no one disputes that cars are a greater threat than bikes -- both to pedestrians and to bicyclists. But none of that gives anyone license to tear down a sidewalk. You can't justify assholery by pointing to an even bigger asshole -- you may be the smaller asshole, but you're still an asshole.

And, look, assholery is bad for you, too. Maybe today you can't ride on a particular street...that sucks, and hopefully things will change. But if you want change, the ABSOLUTE WORST thing you can do is endanger pedestrians. Why? Because then they hate you -- and instead of supporting bike lanes and safer drivers, they begin supporting regulations against asshole bikers. (And don't kid yourself -- you're railing against "bike-hating" "drivers," but the complaints here aren't FROM drivers. They're from pedestrians.)

Don't want to be considered the asshole? Don't be an asshole. Studiously avoid endangering people, and people will be on your side. Selfishly put someone at risk to avoid a 30-second walk, and people will hate you.

pedrdtrians>cyclists>drivers

anyone who breaks this deserves to get the shit kicked out of them.

All the people on here whining about bicyclists do not ride a bicycle in NYC. I do. I cant tell you many times an asshole on his/her cellphone has stepped RIGHT OUT IN FRONT OF ME AFTER SEEING ME COMING, thinking I should be the one to move, while Im going down the street at 20/mph in a bike lane. Or...people stepping blindly into bike lanes from between parked cars.then sneering and yelling when they almost get hit. Idiots walking around clueless while yammering on cell phones are FAR MORE dangerous to bicyclists than the occasional bicyclist not following rules are to pedestrians who are simply unaware of their surroundings while walking in a packed busy city.

Perhaps you could give us an estimate of how many feet it takes to get up to 20 miles per hour? How many lights did you go through in that distance? None of them were red?

And, here is where the bicyclist argument falls apart.

Face it, you guys only follow rules when it suits you.

Thank you. I kind of wish Gothamist would stop reporting on this as I'm tired of the same old blog posts.

Every time I hear a pedestrian say "he almost hit me" I interpret it as "I wasn't paying attention / talking on my phone / standing in the street / crossing against the light when a bike startled me". I'm a pedestrian first, cyclist second (and at 45 am not setting any speed records) and a driver third. While I find most pedestrians who see a car coming, and who are thinking of crossing against the light, pause for a car but step out right in front of a bike in some kind of game of crosswalk chicken.

When I'm on my bike, I have to contend with traffic, open doors, men with hand trucks, strollers (which parents seem to feel fine about leaving in the crosswalk while they stand safely almost on the curb), and all kinds of street-based obstacles like potholes, tire-puncturing garbage, and divots made by bus tires.

As a cyclist, I am more aware of all these things than your average pedestrian (who is usually talking on a phone or, lost in thought) or a motorist (who has the windows up and radio on). I'm also stand higher in the bike seat than standing on my feet so I can see more of what's ahead. I'm not perfect, but I guarantee I'm more awake while riding and paying more attention than you are.

Not really true. As I said before, every single time I've been sideswiped by a bike, I've either been on the sidewalk or I've been crossing with the light.

The fact that dangers exist for cyclists doesn't justify endangering pedestrians. Pedestrians have to deal with all of the same nonsense that bikes and cars do. I certainly have to dodge hand trucks, strollers, dogs that might not be friendly, piled up garbage and other obstacles as I walk down the sidewalk. When I cross the street a car or bus can hit me just as easily as it can hit you. And pedestrians have a distinct height/weight disadvantage to both bikes and cars. If you hit me, it's a lot more likely that I will be injured more severely than you.

Totally agree, I can't get over pedestrians looking at me in the middle of the road, while I have the light, and step right into the street causing me to turn. Of course the people behind them aren't even looking, just following the other person b/c they think it's ok...so now I am a nearly running into them and I get the stinkeye....

With the change in street configuration, bad interactions will hopefully decline. Now that there's a bikelane on 1st, I wait on the curb at the light. Good tonight, cuz two guys were heading downtown (against traffic), but they did have flashing headlights. Peds, heads up. Bikers, exercise caution and consideration, and PLEASE stay off the sidewalk, especially when rounding blind turns. Motorists, well, what can I say. Just try not to kill people. With the change in street layout will (hopefully) come more awareness.

This is a fucking retarded story. Just because of this:

# of dickhead cyclists who don't follow the rules: xxxxxx

# of dickhead pedestrians who don't follow the rules: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Number of dickhead motorists who don't follow the rules and kill people: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

In the real world cars outnumber cyclists like 1,000 to 1.

here is the stats from 2008 for bikes from the DMV:

Total Accidents from bikes 5,646

Fatal Accidents 41 (this is usually accidents due to cars killing bikers)

Non-Fatal Personal Injury Accidents 5,563

Reportable Property Damage Accidents 42

Here is the stats for 2008 for cars:

Total Accidents 316,231

Fatal Accidents 1,160

Non-Fatal Personal Injury Accidents 134,894

Reportable Property Damage Accidents 180,177

Fucking A! You've got 316,231 accidents from cars to bikers 5,646. Now tell me who's the menace?

So at 1,000:1, that means proportionally cyclists are 17x worse drivers. Anyone got the real stats on how many cyclists vs drivers there are? What about the number of pedestrian accidents ?

To quote Sergeant Croft in "The Naked and The Dead" --I hate everything that's not me. . .

Thanks to Google, since Gothamist itself doesn't offer a clue: the source is a blogger for Reuters.

In other words, he has no particular expertise on the topic, he's just another blogger with an opinion. Decent writer, at least.

http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/09/03/a-unified-theory-of-new-york-biking/

I honestly don't know how bike riders aren't killed everyday in this city. I think I can count with both times how many times I've seen a bike rider wait at the light. My biggest fear as a driver in Manhattan is that I'll be crossing an intersection and a bike rider will try to go through the intersection, against the light, and I'll hit him.

I don't mind sharing the rode with cyclists but I really wish they followed the rules of the road, for their own safety.

Bitching and moaning about "dangerous", "reckless" and "out of control cyclists" has become something a past time in NYC, especially on Gothamist the last few years.

The numbers show that this just isn't true. The number of pedestrians hit by cyclists is a tiny fraction compared to the number of pedestrians hit by cars. Fewer pedestrians are hit by cyclists than file complaints for tripping over cracks in the sidewalks. This is basically anecdotal, wishful curmudgeonly griping.

Actually, if you use Transportation Alternatives' own estimates (of trips and miles per trip) and DOT's number of pedestrian-death-by bicycle, you will find that the number of pedestrian deaths per 100,000 trip-miles by bicycle is almost identical to that of pedestrian deaths per 100,000 trip-miles per automobile.

Automobiles are much heavier than bicycles, so they should be more dangerous. So what is it that bicyclists do that make up for the weight difference? Perhaps it has something to do with invading pedestrian space?

Stop fabricating statistics!

No one - NYC DOT, NYS DOT, TransAlt, or you - have absolutely any statistics on pedestrian/cyclists injuries.

Watch here the liars at Sadik-Khans's DOT apologize in embarrassment as CBS-investigative reporter, Tony Aiello, recently exposed their lies that they kept such statistics.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/08/27/dot-apologizes-for-reporting-false-bike-accident-info/

I know more people who were hit by bikes than by cars, and the number of bikes is minuscule compared to the number of cars.

Once these accident figures are kept, watch how many injuries there are.

Unless TransAlt, DOT's current handlers, can persuade Sadik-Khan to continue to ignore compiling these numbers.

Yeah but I don't know if the numbers can be trusted - I mean how many pedestrians would take the time to file a complaint with the police after being hit by a bicycle unless their injuries were serious? If you get knocked over and scrape your knee or something, I think most people would just continue about their business. So I would imagine that the numbers are incomplete at best.

There's also something to be said for the futility of it. The cops aren't going to do anything -- and even if they did, they're never going to catch the guy. As a result, there's also no one to sue (unlike with sidewalk cracks). So why waste time filing a report?

Get stuck in one Critical Mass rally, and you'll hate bikers for life. Seriously.

I'm sorry, what is the source of this? Who is Felix Simon and where did he make those statements?

You want sourced posts? What for? This is a new world -- That's not proper blog style.

Just click on the carefully provided links to other Gothamist posts! And keep the comments coming! Thanks!

For all of those of you say you were almost hit by a cyclist while crossing the street, I'm wondering how many of you were crossing on a "DON'T WALK".

I'm not saying it was your fault or anything like that, just trying to get gather some information here.

Oddly, I do not notice walk/don't walk lights in the middle of the sidewalk.

every single time I've been sideswiped by a cyclist, I've either been a) walking down the sidewalk, where the cyclists aren't even supposed to be; or b) crossing with the light at an actual crosswalk. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've seen cyclists decide the red light doesn't apply to them and plow through intersections where pedestrians are trying to cross.

The one commenter who said they were hit also said they were crossing with the light, so gather that.

Many cyclists don't think that rules apply to them such as no riding on the pedestrian side of the manhattan bridge.

But all the people walking on the bike side of the same bridge think differently?

I can tell you exactly why. Many cyclists here have the attitude that they are the king of the road/sidewalk and everyone else should get out of the way. Of course there are also courteous cyclists, but they are overshadowed by their asswipe counterparts.

Also, my very first month in NYC I was crossing a street with the light when a girl on a street bike hit me from behind, knocking me into oncoming traffic. As she rode away she turned her head and yelled (while I was lying dazed in the street), "Watch where you're going you stupid bitch!"

Maybe you should have watched where you were going, and been less of a stupid bitch.

Hey look everyone, we have some new troll bait!

Welcome! And go fuck your mother.

You've got me, Bob. You've got me.

Tell that to the people who were injured last night in the east village. yeah, a bicycle did that amount of damage and injury. they weren't almost hit, almost side swiped, almost anything but a trip to the hospital or the basement of the hospital awaiting pickup from the mortician.

Huh? Are you talking about that accident on 1st Ave. & E.3rd? That accident was caused by a NY taxi, not a bicyclist.

The taxi swerved to avoid hitting a Jeep which supposedly ran a red light. The taxi then jumped the curb running into two cyclists before smashing into the Village Bean. The bicyclists were among the victims.

The argument that says bicyclists can do stupid, illegal and dangerous shit because they don't injure people as badly when they fuck up as cars do when they do stupid, illegal and dangerous shit is pretty goddamn weak.

How about instead of that relativistic bullshit, everybody (whether they be cyclist, pedestrian or driver) do less stupid, illegal and dangerous shit?

oh so you don't like the tit for tat argument? quelle surprise. tell that to the people injured last night. I believe there were 5 in one incident.

That's not a "tit for tat" argument -- I'm not sure you know what that means. The argument you're making is that cars are MORE dangerous, and therefore bikes are safe. Well, tanks are more dangerous than cars, and nuclear weapons are more dangerous than tanks. So I guess we're all good...

Nah, that argument is nonsense. Bikes can, and have, injured people pretty severely -- biking improperly can be dangerous, and it shouldn't be done. Driving improperly is even more dangerous to pedestrians? I agree. But that doesn't give anyone license to do either activity improperly. If you're going to operate a vehicle around other people, you've got to operate it safely -- I'd like to say that's not controversial.

we got tanks and nuclear weapons in NYC?

Uhhh...forget I said that. And definitely don't look in that big room under the bridge. There's NOTHING in there.

Why do I hate cyclists?

Because too often, I'm on the SIDEWALK minding my own business and then some asshole on a bike swerves round the corner going way too fast rather than slow down or change their course, they just barrel down on me and hope I get out of the way. I've actually been knocked over by them few times.

Bikers abuse the sidewalks (especially in Manhattan) in breathtaking fashion. As a result, I've instituted a strict 'clothesline' policy. Any cyclist riding on the sidewalk within the range of my outstretched arm goes down. Let'em call a cop, they're the ones in the wrong.

Ever walked in a bike lane?

that is a really D!C% move. Karma works both ways.