Right-wing assholes made it a PR thing (by misrepresenting the facts and by fearmongering), not the people building the cultural center. If two gay guys lived in a house down the street from a church, it wouldn't be a big deal. But if some lunatic decided to publicize the existence of this gay couple "deliberately engaging in sodomy within inches of children receiving communion", then suddenly it becomes a subject for debate as to whether the gay couple really *ought* to consider fornicating with slightly less gusto in their own bedroom. People with dishonest rhetorical strategies don't deserve a seat at the discussion.

hi

Its really hard to argue when I just have to retype my argument over and over again. My question was NOT why do you not appreciate the islamic religion. My question WAS how are liberals "ENABLING" terrorism? I also never said I was a fan of Islam, to be honest I am not really a fan of any religion at all. but just because billiamsburg believes "Islam to be the front runner as far as evil atrocities go" does not mean we should ignore our constitutional rights.(also a point you completely ignored which I repeated twice) this means defending those who are not always the majority, and those who we dont always agree with i.e. i think these bus adds are ridiculous but they have first ammendment rights just like the people who want to build this COMMUNITY CENTER. yes not a terrorist training camp but a community center its kind of like a YMCA, with a pool etc. except it will also have food.

Yep. The second "rights" become "privileges," you are screwed. It is much, much easier to take away someone's privileges. & that someone will be YOU, if you don't fight for every other moron's rights. These people should be allowed to make bus ads that I think are stupid; & I should be able to say they are stupid. The Muslim YMCA should be allowed to be built, & the people who don't want to go there shouldn't be forced to go there, just like nobody should be forced to go to church.

yes thats right please ignore everything I say about constitutional rights and how this is what I believe is the issue at hand. And yes you are right I support terrorism by advocating for our first ammendment rights... that makes total sense. You are an echoe of a very strong ignorant bigoted voice and it just scares me that people such as your self may actually believe the vile words you spill. And maybe you want to READ (like look at letters on the page kind of thing) what other people have said. interlard said it well, as well as robingee, and handsomdevil. These are the opinions many hold. I understand terrorism exists but how does supporting to build a community center near a tragic site enable terrorism? can you just explain to me the logic you utilized? it just does not make any sense.

I will try to explain, since I assume this was in response to me. I'll try to make it simple, but not as a way to 'talk down to you' or anything but just for brevity and what not. I believe that religion is responsible for some of the worst atrocities and conditions on this planet. I'm sure you know the list. Currently I believe Islam to be the front runner as far as evil atrocities go (the others make the list, but I think it can be agreed by anyone who will look objectively at simply current injustices and acts of violence, terror, etc that Islam is leading). The 'non-extremist' muslims preach the same gospel the extremists do. Many end up to be revealed as providers of financial or other support for extremist groups. I do not believe the muslim community, as a WHOLE (yes, whole) want peace or assimilation or coexistance. Their gospel preaches the exact opposite. As someone pointed out above even though it was from that retarded Malkin site, even other muslims say the mosque site is a deliberate provocation. Browse miiltant muslim sites (there's one based in NYC), they are all LOLing at this. They are reveling in it. I find that offensive, honestly, and think the operators of this Mosque, if they do not wish to align with militant muslims and wanted to try to bridge a gap with the people you call bigots, would reconsider the site. Not because they should legally have to, but out of decent human dignity. Additionally I find the support from liberals to upsetting. If liberals were to say, let the muslims fight their own battles, I would be fine. But to enable ANY religion, especially one that straps bombs to children and murders innocent people daily, is also offensive. You may say THESE muslims have not done that, but by just BEING muslim they ENABLE it. They give another voice to the word that says it's OK to stone a woman to death. The liberals then back up their voice, and each ounce of support makes them stronger. To really have peace, there needs to be no religion, or whatever that hippy john lennon said.

Currently I believe Islam to be the front runner as far as evil atrocities go and acts of violence, terror, etc that Islam is leading)

94% of terrorist acts are done by non muslims according to the FBI.

so again facts triump your nonsensical arguements.

Advocating Rationalism & Enlightenment-- & a rejection of religion-- is one thing. Being conveniently opposed to a religion when it happens to overlap with a persecuted minority is another.

If you were actually serious, though, you'd have to understand that there is a huge difference between extremists in foreign lands, who happen to be Muslim, who are striking back at the hegemonic nation, which happens to be the United States. That the pattern of attacks we're seeing have nothing to do with Islam & everything to do with how Guerrilla Warfare (on the terrorist's behalf) & Total War Doctrine (on the USA's behalf) interact. If one country rolls into another country & bombs out their infrastructure, the population of that country develop some vengeance minded nut-jobs who make a suicide run. The strength of those nut-jobs is that they don't need an over-arching nation or religion to support them. They are distributed. You can't bomb Al Qaeda because they aren't a place, or a nation, or a religion.

So yeah, you're being simplistic & naive. The guys wanting to build a cultural center? These are the Episcopalians. These are they guys who are like "Oh hey, we have a cultural identity. Lets make a center for that! We'll make it open to the public, & everything."

You, on your high horse, claiming to hate religions but especially theirs? That isn't helping anybody. Again, hey, I'm with you. Till the last king is strangled in the entrails of the last priest, all that jazz. I guess my point is, are you more interested in seeing your goals come about, or in talking about seeing your goals come about? See, Islam isn't always, & hasn't always, been super oppressive. Pretending like it is? & pretending like the protests are about "Islam" when really they are about "Arabs"? That is silly. This is about bigotry.

Liberals, why do you believe that women are inferior to men and homosexuality should be punished by death?

No, no... that's Conservative Christians you are thinking about! Ha. Christians don't want to give gays rights or let women have the right to choose.

The Bible says a lot of terrible things, but who opposes churches? No one. Because in America we don't do those things, just like Muslims in America don't do those things. That's why they live here and not in Pakistan.

Try to understand and not lump things into a big dumb category like "GROUND ZERO MOSQUE" - It's not a mosque and it's not on Ground Zero.

This issue isn't about christians and i do not defend or support christians in any way. I'd simply like to know why liberals support and defend islam, which states explicitly that homosexuals should be killed and women are inferior to men. Care to explain why you and other liberals endorse those beliefs?

No THIS is what its definitely NOT about:Liberals believing that women are inferior and homosexuality is wrong. actually thats completely opposite. What it IS about is upholding our constitutional rights no matter who is asking for its protection. I understand trying to spin it so your pre-determined illogical beliefs may be upheld in your own crazy mind on a personal level. but if youre going to spread your "wisdom" you might want to try and not be so incredibly ignorant. We get it YOU hate islam blah blah blah but stringing idiotic and stale phrases together and sharing them is just unnecessary.

So it's fair to say you may not explicitly agree with the murder of homosexuals under islam among other atrocities (like terrorism), but you are glad to be an ENABLER of it and offer your SUPPORT when they need your help?

I don't think allowing a community center to be built will kill any homosexuals.

Sometimes rednecks kill or beat up homosexuals, and sometimes Christians do, though. Can we outlaw Christians and rednecks? No. Because they ALL don't do that.

Islam has respect for woman. It gave them more rights than other religion and at an earlier time.

Muslim countries have had woman leaders before other "developed" countries.

Don't confuse yourself with the truth and fear mongering sound bytes.

Yeah they have great respect for them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3Eam5FX58&feature=related

Video says the man will be held responsible for what he has done and the wife is not his property.

Clear cut.

Maybe the thousands of domestic disputes that involve and lead to murderer this country can use those rules.

When did you country give women rights? About 60 years ago.

And blacks? About 40 years ago.

Maybe you should get your house in order before trying to control others.

So you would oppose a church being built anywhere? No. Because the people building and attending the church are not stoning people to death for working on Sunday. And neither are the people who are opening a Community Center that has a prayer room in it. Is this YMCA-type facility going to kill gays and cut off people's hands? If so, then I do not support it.

Don't say, "Why do you endorse these beliefs?" You are not tricking anyone by wording it that way.

The US Constitution guarantees freedom of religion so, the people behind it have every right to build an islamic center on the site.

However from a Public Relations standpoint this is not going to build bridges between Muslims and non-Muslims. If the people behind this really want to build bridges, they should withdraw their plans for now and adjust or revisit the issue at a later time. It would show their kindness and sensitivity to the matter and build some good will.

That's the opposite of what should happen. NYers showing that they understand it's not a terrorist-built megamosque but merely a community center open to all people is building bridges. Standing around with moronic GROUND ZERO MOSQUE signs and not letting what is essentially a YMCA be built 2 blocks away from the former WTC site is pretty much doing exactly what Osama Bin Laden wants; dividing the country and filling everyone with hate. Terrorists are not building this center.

Calling a YMCA-type facility a VICTORY MOSQUE or GROUND ZERO MOSQUE is retarded. There will be a prayer room. And a lot more stuff that the whole community can use. Can you people READ or all you all reactionary a-holes?? Jesus Christ on a cracker. Read a damn article and not just the headlines. Don't we know by now that the news sensationalizes things and we have to delve deeper? Use your damn brains. This is New York City not Podunk Mississippi.