Mo' Mo' Mosque: Fireman Says America Isn't Disneyland Utopia

As promised, Pat Robertson's astroturf group The American Center for Law and Justice has filed a lawsuit in State Supreme Court on behalf of Timothy Brown, a firefighter who says the Landmarks Preservation Commission is guilty of "an abuse of discretion" in deciding not to grant landmark status to 45-47 Park Place, the site of a proposed Islamic center and mosque. Brown survived the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center, but his two best friends and 93 other firefighters died.

The landing gear from one of the planes struck on the roof of the building, and Brown, who has worked to achieve landmark status for other buildings damaged in the attack, argues that the landmarks commission "failed to account for this momentous historic event in a departure from administrative precedent." (City Room is hosting a pdf of the lawsuit.)

"I believe this mosque will never be built," Brown tells CBS. "I strongly believe that. The families will never allow this to happen." Asked about Mayor Bloomberg's rousing speech about the American principals of freedom of religion, Brown says, "If we were all living in Disneyland, then... what he was saying would be a wonderful thing." (It's true, the Founding Fathers of Disneyland would have welcomed the Muslims with open arms).

CBS also gets some good quotes from men on the street, like Henry Muller of Queens, who insists it doesn’t matter that he can’t prove a connection between the Islamic radicals behind 9/11 and the Muslims developing the proposed center—they're still a threat. "Do I have the facts? No," says Muller. "Can I rule it out? Absolutely not. And I do believe quite a few people will agree with me on this…In my 51 years, my gut never failed me." And last night Russell Simmons, who lives across the street from the World Trade Center site, appeared on Keith Olbermann's show to state the obvious: "It's about religious freedom. It's pretty simple."

But what about building codes, the Post wonders. The tabloid has learned that the building's certificate of occupancy dates to 1987, and is for a retail store only. And yet it has been used for Friday prayer gatherings since 2009. How can we allow such blatant scofflawery in the shadow of Ground Zero?! Well, Buildings Department spokesman Tony Sclafani says the building's owners have been receiving temporary permits for a place of assembly. "Right now, they are in compliance," he said. "This is a common practice."

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By John Del Signore in News on August 5, 2010 10:28 AM

Comments [rss]

Potty Boy

I think the sign that said "No mas! No mosque!" was kinda cute...

neutral observer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w

OSN!

They should be building another federal detention center down there for the Wall Street overflow.

Seriously, putting up a Mosque there is obscene under the circumstances and every intelligent, non-troll knows this.

neutral observer

and members of congress......

schizofriendly

The only 'religious' institution Lower Manhattan needs, is a giant zazen center.

Elderta

Sam Sedar, That's Bullshit! Mosque at Ground Zero

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPPxBrtrH1c

LaliP

Quite the interesting situation! Of course America was founded on religious freedom.

It seems to me tho that if a religious organization wants to embrace the community, they would do so with reverence and compassion. Why have we not heard from the leader of the proposed mosque? Whether the mosque is built in the financial district of Manhattan or the countryside of Montana, I would hope there would be a representative to speak out on intention (hopefully dedication to equality and tolerance and ideally love & peace).

If you think intention doesn't matter, people, will you fight for the right of the KKK to congregate? Or perhaps Nazi's?

I mean no disrespect to anyone of any faith, but the murderers who killed thousands of American's (of MULTIPLE faiths and ethnicities) proclaimed they did so in the name of allah, for the sake of jihad.

If people of the Muslim faith let it be known they only want peace, I doubt anyone will have issue with the building of mosque's here in NYC or anywhere else.

BDS=(Boycott.Divest.Sanction)

IMPORTANT

The motives for 9/11 are no mystery. The motives have been stated by several people clearly and repeatedly for years. The terrorists are not attacking us in order to force us to convert to Islam or because we don't believe in Islam or that they don't like freedom or that they are envious.

Note that Osama bin Laden has said why repeatedly and he says that the attacks will continue UNTIL specific foreign policies (American policy in the Middle East and its support of Israel) are stopped. He doesn't say "until you believe in Alah", none of the terrorists have ever said this or anything about attacking us because of our freedoms. It is dangerous to spread false reasons for why 9/11 happened. Please read the following for the motives for 9/11 attacks:

"Your position against Muslims in Palestine is despicable and disgraceful. America has no shame. ... We believe that the worst thieves in the world today and the worst terrorists are the Americans. Nothing could stop you except perhaps retaliation in kind. We do not have to differentiate between military or civilian. As far as we are concerned, they are all targets, and this is what the fatwah says ... . The fatwah is general (comprehensive) and it includes all those who participate in, or help the Jewish occupiers in killing Muslims. " - Osama bin Laden May 1998

"For over half a century, Muslims in Palestine have been slaughtered and assaulted and robbed of their honor and of their property. Their houses have been blasted, their crops destroyed. And the strange thing is that any act on their part to avenge themselves or to lift the injustice befalling them causes great agitation in the United Nations which hastens to call for an emergency meeting only to convict the victim and to censure the wronged and the tyrannized whose children have been killed and whose crops have been destroyed and whose farms have been pulverized " - Osama bin Laden May 1998

angry_pickle

Actually, I remember shortly after 9/11, when the US asked the Taliban what they can do to stop attacks, the Taliban said to convert the country to Islam.

Islam is not a religion of peace and it never will be just by its intrinsic nature. There are many good people who are muslim not because they are muslim but despite being muslim. And people can't get leave the religion because the Quran demands the death penalty for that.

LaliP

understood. and I agree terrorists are not envious of our "freedoms." (of course they want no one to be free, lest their women) But their (al-qaeda) attacks DID have religious attachments- it was absolutely proclaimed their criminal and murderous activities were to honor allah. this is not cold-war communism vs. capitalism, this is secularism vs. theocracy; the US foreign policy is not respected by the middle east because it does not favor Islam. so in exchange for our people (american's) to NOT be murdered by terrorists the US is supposed to overlook women being murdered for "peace" and ultimately oil-exchange? Eff that! American Muslims: why don't you put your brothers in check? why is there not a "muslim coalition for peace"? and my voice to the US Govt: enough about oil!!! Our lives are worth more that that.

i'm obviously pissed off at a slew of people..if my muslim sisters are fine with being degraded... well, sorry, i'm still not fine with that. so let's fight for the right of the mosque to be built and for women to be nothing more than pets. yay!!!! we american's are tolerant!! we accept and embrace!! all in the name of equality! (although women, you are not equal - now fetch me my dinner.)

muslim men: please respond.

LaliP

ok i'm sorry, i got a lil carried away. obviously a mosque being built in manhattan does not equate women being debased.

LaliP

or does it?? discuss people..

Gepap

The planners of thie community center (with a prayer space inside) have made multiple public statements of their intent. If you haven't heard from them, its because you haven't been paying attention.

LaliP

yr kinda right Gepap, i haven't done any serious academic-worthy research. BUT i have been following along in the newspapers and the posts on this blog.. and JDS hasn't presented anything to represent the justification of the mosque other than his snarky "yr all knuckleheads if you don't agree with me" prose. the newspapers are likewise reporting on the kerfuffle instead of the actual debate. so i HAVEN'T heard any "pro's" from the people who are directly involved. i'm not sure if this is the media's fault or if there is a stance of silence (or perhaps you're right and I'm ignorant - but if that's the case, I can't be the only one.) please post a link to statement of faith/purpose. the latest polls show 60% nyc'ers oppose.. do the people not have a say in the formation of their community? i'm not trying to be a jerk! it just seems strange that this "debate" has warped into a paternal discussion lacking the voice of those who want to worship there.

Wza

So what's the score of the thread so far?

With all the plus and minus being thrown around, I've lost count.

Dogsbody

"...the building's certificate of occupancy dates to 1987, and is for a retail store only. And yet it has been used for Friday prayer gatherings since 2009. How can we allow such blatant scofflawery in the shadow of Ground Zero?! Well, Buildings Department spokesman Tony Sclafani says the building's owners have been receiving temporary permits for a place of assembly..."

I have no experience in building zoning laws, DOB matters etc etc, but I was wondering if anyone could explain the above paragraph to me. It seems kind of crazy to me.

I'm generally of the opinion that if you own a property, you should be able to do pretty much whatever the hell you like within it, without the approval or consent of some local govt agency. Obviously I can see that for practical safety reasons, if you're going to subdivide it into multiple rental units, or start allowing dozens of people inside for retail purposes, it's sensible that the DOB has the right to insist that the building has the necessary sprinkler systems and escape routes etc to handle that number of people.

But why should it be any of the City's business whether a place is used for worship or for retail? If you're allowed to have 200 people in the building buying clothes or whatever, why can't you have 200 people in the building praying? Why should you need a seperate building depending on whether the people are buying things or praying??

RyanLee

Could it be tax status? Religion gets a free ride...or at least a discount, but I'm not sure that has to do with permits and the DOB.

I could probably, actually, look it up but I don't think I will.

Gothampc

"But why should it be any of the City's business whether a place is used for worship or for retail?"

A few years ago, I attended the service of a brand new church that was meeting in a building in Tribeca. They had no air conditioning and had to keep the windows closed because the neighbors complained that the singing was disturbing. Their services were held on Sunday morning 10am to noon. The singing portion of the service was about 30 minutes 10-10:30 am.

Gothampc

If the government was interested in solving this, they could just take the building by imminent domain. What's the matter Bloomberg? Scared to do it?

snickerdoodle

Continue to pull the wool over your eyes if you think it makes you feel smug and superior, Gothamist.

Here's yet another small, insignificant group of peaceful Muslims plotting against infidels in the US:

Justice: 14 charged for supporting Somalia group.