Ok, so where are you from and what made you come to New York?

oops that was meant as a reply to Dogbert

I'm a native Californian who, after living overseas several years, took a job transfer to New York.

Good for you, sounds like you have a very successful career. I genuinely applaud you and thank you for whatever contribution you are making to this city (no sarcasm) but unfortunately it sounds to me like you're just here for the money. Do you anticipate staying here, raising a family here, and retiring here? Or will you be heading back home or be transferring somewhere else soon? Are you just a temporary New Yorker? I ask because I'm wondering if you're as committed to this city as I am.

Like I said in my initial response to you, remember you asked the question, "Are you all just not that smart or what?" which in it's self is a pretty arrogant statement. I then tried to answer your question as best I could without attacking new New Yorkers, specifically said "I'm not mad at the new New Yorkers in fact I welcome their contributions, energy, innovation and vibrancy they bring to this city. I blame (it) on the administrations, especially Bloomberg's, that it seems has made it a priority to squeeze the poorest NYers out of this city". Yet throughout your argument you have taken the very elitist position to say that native New Yorkers (and their parents) haven't been able to compete, saying things like, "Surely those wealthy out-of-towner parents were more resilient, tough, and able to succeed than some New Yorkers" and "sounds like many of you couldn't compete, though. Who owes you anything?" I guess I'd be justified in attacking you, and your parents as well, but I won't because I still feel new New Yorkers are an asset to the city and aren't the root of the problem. I still choose to blame the policies and leadership of especially this administration, but past administrations as well.

But I do have a problem with people like you and your elitist views and but I won't assume that all new New Yorkers have the same disdain towards us native NYers. You could have added to this debate by explaining the many contributions new New Yorkers have made, or your personal feelings as a new New Yorker, etc., etc. but instead you chose to attack not only us but our parents as well, shame on you.

I could have broken down your argument piece by piece and explained to you that the word "native" means born and raised and therefore your statement "I would guess many of those native New Yorkers were themselves immigrants from elsewhere" doesn't make much sense or I could've pointed out that virtually every franchise started as a mom and pop but that doesn't reflect who they were when they came into the NY market and that most of the businesses they replaced in midtown Manhattan were actually owned and operated by native NYers and not "a crappy, overpriced bodega, run by surly non-native New Yorkers, serving disgusting coffee" and turned this into a battle of wits but what would that solve or how would it help new NYers and native NYers understand each other's views so we can work TOGETHER to make this great city even greater?

I could have also tried to attack your background and your parents for raising you with such an elitist, "we're better than you because we made more money than you" attitude. You seem like an intelligent person, so you obviously understood when I said New Yorkers were "resilient and tough" given the context of the article we were discussing and that the discussion was about crime I was talking about survival instincts in a city that often required such skills in the past. Yet you chose to equate "resilience and toughness" with the size of your bank account or better yet your parents' bank account. You have a very darwinist approach to this matter but your reasoning is very hypocritical.

By "resilient and tough" I meant that we stayed here when many ran to the suburbs. While many moved to Long Island, New Jersey or back home to get away from the crime in this city, we stood firm and raised families, started businesses and kept loving this city, warts and all, too much to turn our backs on it and run away. We were here through riots, blackouts, terrorist attacks, the crack epidemic, lawlessness, etc.. Throughout it all we never gave up on New York. We knew New York needed improvement and were committed to see it improve for our children and their children. While many were just passing through New York, this was our city, our community, our home. What would have became of New York if we all gave up and ran away? But those contributions mean nothing now I guess.

But to use YOUR own meaning of the term "resilient and tough" I will say that it doesn't take much toughness and resilience, even by your standards, to take grandma's inheritance or trust fund and move to NY. I have a friend who works for one of the major real estate firms in the city and he has made a career out of finding new New Yorkers, mostly recent out-of-town college grads, apartments and to qualify most of them, and for them to be able to afford to live here, their parents have to promise to pay most, if not all, of their rent. That is not what I meant when I said "resilient and tough" but if that's how you define it then yes their parents and, presumably, your parents are "resilient and tough". I wish these "resilient and tough" parents would also move here then, we need more new NYers like that in this city.

The only problem I have with that is that when someone who by there own virtue, namely their own salary, cannot afford to live here but because of their parents' wealth rents a $3,000 a month apartment, then this artificially inflates the rents and property values. The rents in a geographic location should reflect the salaries in the area, but how can they if they are being paid by out-of-towners based on wealth created over generations. So your argument about new NYers vs native NYers parents' resilience and toughness is not only insulting but should be null and void because to be honest parents shouldn't be paying their children's rent. If they paid for your college expenses that's great but now paying your rent also, that's a bit much. I do realize that not all new New Yorkers fall into this category, and given your response, I assume you do not because it sounds like you've been working for a number of years and I'm sure are paying your own way by now but since you decided to make that argument I thought I'd provide my insight into the situation.

But again let me reiterate, I'm not against new NYers. The constant influx of new NYers is what has made this city "the greatest city in the world." What I am against is the policies that are driving native NYers away and is making harder and harder for anyone that is not rich to live or succeed here. I'm against regressive taxes, i'm against failing schools, I'm against how this city unfairly targets small businesses, I'm against a system that's increasingly becoming pro-ricfh and anti-poor and new NYers are not to blame for any of these things. As a native NYer I can tell you it wasn't always like this, maybe new NYers accept it as the price of living in New York but there was a time when the rich and poor could coexist in this city and that was what made New York "The Greatest City in the World."

But back to the original article, I read about how this young girl has gone back to her hometown in Oregon to recover. See that's the option we native New Yorkers never had, we couldn't go back home, this was home. So when we got mugged, beaten up or even raped, we just had to recover as quickly as possible and try find a way to not become a victim again. I wish her the best and can only hope she's "resilient and tough" enough to come back to New York once she is fully recovered. Hopefully she will come back and become an advocate for victims or a stanch critic of crime in this city and helps us improve this great city.

Now that I've read most of these comments on this story it simply demonstrates the level of "hipsterness" we have on this story..Bottom line this is a terrible story that is nothing new and the race aspect which is not driven by any verbal quotes but simply by the facts that it is a Black on white attack - well you can blame the media since its all about selling the story..Would the story be just as horrible if it was a black Barnard student attacked by a white lowlife - of course..But those are the facts jack....Wearing headphones is not a good idea when jogging or even walking on city streets - how many times I beep my horn when these aholes dont even realize what hazards they are causing...OH BTW where is Al Sharpton on this story?????

I continue to be amazed by the extent to which "native New Yorkers" glamorize and feel acute nostalgia for violent crime and criminals.

Are you all just not that smart or what?

I guess it's because we survived it. We lived in this city when it was a hellhole and made it in one piece. That wasn't an easy feat growing up in the "bad old days" of New York City. It's like soldiers bragging about old war wounds or battle scars, it's not that they liked it or enjoyed it, it's the fact that they survived it. NYC was tough and to be a NYer meant you were tough and resilient, to a certain extent. Now NY has become the playground of the wealthy and I guess now to live in NY means you're wealthy. And let me remind you that the reason that people all over the world wanted or want to come to New York is due in no small part due to the native NYers who kept it alive during the worst of times.

And I think native NYers resent the fact that after staying here and keeping NY's torch lit by working and paying taxes, even when others wouldn't even visit here because of fear, now that times are better too many natives can't even enjoy it because we're being forced out to make room for out-of-towners with wealthy parents.

Gentrification hasn't benefitted most Native New Yorkers. Most native NYers learned to live and survive in NY, despite the crime, but we can't "learn" to pay $3,000 for a studio apartment.

So it's not about being smart or not, it's that as life long NYers we feel we helped build this city and feel we have a stake in it but now that it's become a much more livable place many of us are getting priced out of our hometown.

Most new New Yorkers are here by choice but I wonder how they would feel if after building their hometown up to whatever it is today they had to leave and their parents wouldn't be able to afford to retire in the city they helped build, with their blood, sweat and tears, because now that things are better out-of-towners came and drove up the prices of rents and properties.

This city has always been a melting pot with people from all over the world coming here and there's nothing wrong with that. I don't think anyone owns this city and I'm not mad at the new New Yorkers in fact I welcome their contributions, energy, innovation and vibrancy they bring to this city. I blame on the administrations, especially Bloomberg's, that it seems has made it a priority to squeeze the poorest NYers out of this city. And when I say poorest NYers I'm not just talking about minimum wage earners, I'm talking about small business owners, mom and pop stores, factory owners, etc. All the businesses that didn't get subsidies while Wall Street got millions from the city. All the Mom and Pop stores that had to shut their doors so yet another Starbucks could take its place. Slowly but surely NY is losing all the things that made it great and is becoming like any other city. You take a stroll through the city and you're bound to run into the same franchises over and over again. That's not how New York was a few years ago, that's not what made it the great city that it is or was.

Thanks, John L, that's the best explanation I've read.

And let me remind you that the reason that people all over the world wanted or want to come to New York is due in no small part due to the native NYers who kept it alive during the worst of times.

I would guess many of those native New Yorkers were themselves immigrants from elsewhere.

And I think native NYers resent the fact that after staying here and keeping NY's torch lit by working and paying taxes, even when others wouldn't even visit here because of fear, now that times are better too many natives can't even enjoy it because we're being forced out to make room for out-of-towners with wealthy parents.

This is what I don't understand: you're proud of your resilience and toughness, but you whine because you were not resilient enough or tough enough to succeed, make money, and continue to afford to live here. Surely those wealthy out-of-towner parents were more resilient, tough, and able to succeed than some New Yorkers.

Gentrification hasn't benefitted most Native New Yorkers. Most native NYers learned to live and survive in NY, despite the crime, but we can't "learn" to pay $3,000 for a studio apartment.

Aren't Brooklyn, the Bronx, Queens, Staten Island, and Upper Manhattan also part of New York City? I know you can get any number of studio apartments in those areas for less than $3,000/mo.

So it's not about being smart or not, it's that as life long NYers we feel we helped build this city and feel we have a stake in it but now that it's become a much more livable place many of us are getting priced out of our hometown.

Again, you say New Yorkers are tough, resilient, the best in the world -- sounds like many of you couldn't compete, though. Who owes you anything?

Successful native New Yorkers like Donald Trump can live here -- why doesn't he stick up for you?

Most new New Yorkers are here by choice but I wonder how they would feel if after building their hometown up to whatever it is today they had to leave and their parents wouldn't be able to afford to retire in the city they helped build, with their blood, sweat and tears, because now that things are better out-of-towners came and drove up the prices of rents and properties.

That's happened in many places other than New York.

All the Mom and Pop stores that had to shut their doors so yet another Starbucks could take its place.

Starbucks started out as a mom and pop. Besides, what makes a crappy, overpriced bodega, run by surly non-native New Yorkers, serving disgusting coffee, better?

Slowly but surely NY is losing all the things that made it great and is becoming like any other city. You take a stroll through the city and you're bound to run into the same franchises over and over again. That's not how New York was a few years ago, that's not what made it the great city that it is or was.

You seem to be conflating Manhattan south of 96th St. with the entire city. Why do so many of you do that?

And what made New York City great? The crime? The fact you had to be tough and resilient because the city was such a hole? Be proud of what it has become, you should be.

Ok, so where are you from and what made you come to New York?

welcome to the third world. you cant take your security for granted.

It's always a wise idea to jog with a buddy or group.

There were two attacks that morning. http://www.dnainfo.com/20100709/morningside-heights/second-woman-attacked-by-man-riverside-park-police-say

This is why we need apartheid.

In your dreams. but you're welcome to leave to find your paradise.

Can't blame these out-of-towners, they come here and actually believe the NYPD and Bloomberg's fictitious and doctored crime statistics and believe its really safe out here. Bottomline in New York it always has been and still is about survival of the fittest. If you walk around with a $300 device, flaunting it, then you be better be ready to protect yourself, whether you're white, black, whatever. With that being said, I don't think this was a racially motivated crime, it was a an economically motivated crime. This guy did what all thieves do, he looked for the most expensive thing he could steal with the least possible resistance and unfortunately this cute girl and her iPod fit the criteria.

I remember when I first bought my son an iPod I was hesitant because I was afraid he would be targeted. So I immediately also bought him some plain looking black headphones because being a native NYer I knew that those white headphones were a dead giveaway and might bring unwanted problems. Sometimes I see people with those $300 Dre Beats headphones and just wonder if they know what kind of problem those headphones might bring them.

I think the Learning Annex should hold classes for transplanted NYers, "How To Not Become a Victim".

Ladies and gentleman this is still New York (don't believe Bloomberg's numbers, he's lying to you) so if you're not ready to give up or die for anything then leave it at home, use common sense and precaution in any isolated areas (like parks in off-peak hours) and stop being oblivious of your surroundings (make sure you can HEAR and LOOK up instead of just texting all day).

I hope this girl has a speedy recovery and this monster is caught and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Maybe they need to start putting cameras in parks now too.

Does anyone remember the case of Nicole duFresne? She was the young girl who moved here from Minnesota and one night she and her friends were robbed of their cellphones and money. While her friends, boyfriend included, ran away Ms.duFresne decided that it was a good idea to confront the attackers, a bunch of kids from the projects. She shouted at them "What are you still doing here? You got what you wanted. What are you going to do now, shoot us?" So they did, the bullet entered her chest and exited through her back. She died instantly. She had only lived here for two years, if she would've been here a few more years maybe she would've known better than to try to challenge this group.

I see people on this very board shocked that someone would do something like this for a cheap iPod, and I'm shocked. YES! some people will kill you for that iPod and even less, some might kill you just to see if by any chance you might have some money on you. If you come from a middle class or wealthy background it's a hard concept to grasp, but your life means nothing to some people because their own lives mean nothing to them.

Poverty kills, in more ways than one.

Not really how it happened, but I'm glad that you can copy and paste from Wikipedia. You also left out the part about how her boyfriend was clocked in the face with a gun (he did, in fact, not run away).

The quotation you attribute to her also was in the testimony of the assailants as a way to claim that they were not guilty because she asked for it.

Regardless of how that event went down, DuFresne did not deserve to be killed by gutter trash. Even if people make mistakes by not being as street smart as you seem to think you are, it does no good to blame the victims. We all make mistakes, looking back on how we could have done things differently in a bad situation; luckily, most of us live to learn from it, even us "native NYers".

Oh boy, here comes the facts police.

First, can you please point out were I cut and pasted this from Wikipedia? Here I'll make it easy for you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicole_duFresne

Actually if I would have cut and pasted it I probably wouldn't have neglected to point out that the boyfriend was indeed pistol whipped, right?

Second, everyone including her own friends admitted that she confronted the assailants and said "What are you going to do shoot us?" or something to that effect.

Here I'll "cut and paste" from the NYTIMES:

"When I did that, he hit me with the gun, using both hands. He got a really good, hard hit into the left side of my face, my eye," Mr. Sparks said, his face bearing the cuts from the attack yesterday.

"Nicole was asking me if I was all right," he said. The other robber stepped forward and apologized, Mr. Sparks said. "He's like, 'Whoa, whoa, whoa, it doesn't have to be like this, we just need some money.' I said, 'Come on, let's just go,' and started to walk down the sidewalk. I thought Nicole was behind me, but she wasn't.

"They must have grabbed for Mary Jane's purse," he said, referring to Ms. duFresne's old friend and fellow actress and playwright, Mary Jane Gibson, who was there with her boyfriend. Mr. Sparks was farther up the block when Ms. duFresne confronted the attackers. The police said she asked the men something to the effect of, "What are you going to do, shoot us next?"

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/28/nyregion/28murder.html?_r=1&oref=login&oref=login

This is the initial report of the incident BEFORE the suspects were caught. So this the words of the victims ONLY. As you can see they admitted that she confronted them and at one point said I "started to walk down the sidewalk. I thought Nicole was behind me, but she wasn't". So I said they ran, they said they walked, sorry facts police, I misspoke.

Third, NO ONE is saying that she nor any victim deserves to be victimized or killed. What I was saying was in response to some people on this board who seemed to be shocked that some one would get mugged for a cheap iPod and I think that same naivete is what causes some people to become victims and sometimes get killed. I too wish we lived in a crime free utopia but we don't, we live in NYC, and unfortunately people must be vigilant in their own protection. I don't think it takes street smarts to know that when someone points a gun at you you try to comply so you can hopefully live to see another day. However, I do feel that as native NYers we've seen enough of these stories that we might have a better understanding of how bad guys think.

My comments were meant more as a PSA to new NYers to stay on their toes and be careful so hopefully they will not become victims as well. So what part of that offended you?

These are all excellent points, for sure, but it should be noted that the majority of victims of violent crime in this city continue to be those born and raised here, with the violence most often stemming from domestic conflict and the drug trade.

Also, after reading through the comments here (not referring to you John L), I think we can all agree that it's nice to see that crazy is alive and well in New York.

bootstraps, accountability, stop popping babies yada yada yada,

don't you mean the poor are victimized (by violent crime not Madoff crime) more than the rich, wealthy and privileged? when you come from a rich wealthy area wtf do you know about the poors and more importantly why should you care, right?

Gold filled Bootstraps for all!

I am the New Riverside Park Jogger! until the wrong guys were arrested and even then I don't care! I'll write a book!