to dadoc

This school is a charter school so what does the UFT have to do with it. Charter schools usually have limited if not any union representation. In fact all public schools had a hiring freeze because of the budget. Another thing how do you know that the teacher didn't tell the children to come back or not go into the water and the students chose not to listen. No one but the people there really know/knew what went on at that beach. For those of you that are not teachers, children is setting such as these can become difficult to manage because they become excited and often times disregard rules and procedures; however, like I said no one but the people there know what occurred.

When you hand off the kiddies in the AM to a school of any sort, you are entitled to a "reasonable" degree of safety. The beaurocracy, as usual: fail. Sending a newbie teach on such a trip: fail. No Lifeguards on?: fail. The Chancellor, the DOE, the union all too interested in maintaining their perks, and not noting that someone sent a Newbie to the "No Lifeguard-Riptide" beach with a bunch of kids. If they spent more time on education and quality rather than continuing the graft machine that is the DOE/UFT dance, the system could function and maybe this kind of thing would not happen.

Columbia University has a great teaching program and they do a lot of good work. this is another one of those things. even the brightest and best can make bad judgments.

12 years old should be old enough to know whether one can swim or not, hell at 12 I was still in the kiddie pool.

no way I would go into the ocean any higher than ankle deep.

OK, I know I'm going to get a lot of shit for this, but who is going to acknowledge that this girl should have known not to get in the water if she couldn't swim.

Don't give me some "riptide" BS story. I've been to this beach and either you know how to swim and enjoy the water ...or you don't.

It's sad that she died, but every summer there are stories about kids (and adults) drowning. If you can't swim don't go in the water!!!

She was only 12. Kids are impulsive, especially on a hot day on a beach. The adults are to blame here. You're an asshole.

12 years old is old enough to know whether you can swim or not. Stop justifying the stupid.

Actually, 12 years old is not old enough to know better. They see the water and their friends in it and it's 90 degrees out and they want to go in too, maybe to just stand in it to cool off. Have you ever experienced a riptide, douche? Kids that age usually aren't aware of what riptide is and what it can do. Even someone who can swim can get easily dragged under.

This girl is dead because she went for a swim, but didn't know how to swim. Stupidity got her killed.

@Harlemmom so you copy and paste the same thing to multiple websites. Above is word-for-word what you wrote on nbc.com. So here is my response:

Not for nothing, but slamming the principal and the teacher when they cannot publicly defend themselves is really low. From your comments, it seems as if you have a beef with the principal and are involved with the school. Which means that you know that they cannot say a word in defense of themselves or their reputations without being fired.

Cheap shots.

Everyone keeps referring to Ms. Bailey as a 'first-year' and 'kid' teacher as if that calls into question her ability and judgment. Mind you, she is one of the stricter teachers at the school and nearly killed herself pulling out the other two children and trying to save Nicole.

Again, cheap shots.

It's real easy to make comments when people are unable to defend themselves.

Ms. Bailey is criminally negligent, plain and simple. She cannot swim, yet thinks that it is appropriate to bring 24 children to the ocean during a rip tide. Furthermore, she is onbe of only three adults with limited, if any, experience with children. "First year" and "kid" are kind compared to what most people would call her.

Witnesses claim that the children ran into the water and all over the jettys upon arrival. Did she stop them? Aparrently not, since the girl was missing for over an hour before they pulled her dead body from the water. Applause all around for her vigilance.

No life gaurds, insufficiant permission from parents (at best), 24 children on a beach in 90 degree heat with signs clearly marked to warn people not to get into the water. A responsible person would have turned that bus right around. She did not and the princepal seems to support this.

Cheap shots? Hardly. Those are the facts and a little girl is dead because 'Ms. Bailey' wanted a day at the beach. One of the 'stricter' teachers at the school? Sounds like that school is in some serious trouble if the 'stricter' of the faculty is letting a bunch of 12 year olds, who mostly can't swim, run into the water of a notoriously dangerous beach during a rip tide and no lifegaurds on duty. Teacher of the year, indeed.

"Nearly killed herself trying to save the girl"? It was her negligence that lead to the drowning. Cry me a river. She was probably more inspired by the fact that her paycheck was swimming away.

You think that you know so much based on news articles, none of which indicated that Ms. Bailey can't swim.

1. Ms. Bailey can swim very well.

2. Riptieds aren't actually tides and aren't predictible.

3. Yes, Nicole was missing for an hour before they found her body. During which time Ms. Bailey pulled out two other students and continued to look for Nicole.

My point is that the majority of the witnesses of what happened aren't talking and can't talk. I don't know and you don't know if what occurred was criminally negligent, because we don't know all the facts. Relying on "witnesses" who are willing to talk to reporters but weren't there for the whole event does not tell you what happened.

'Oh yeah, I saw kids climbing all over the jetty. They shouldn't be doing that it is really dangerous.' Apparently not dangerous enough to concern them to approach the group and say something. But then again, it could have been one or two kids climbing on the jetty not from the CSS group or it could have been kids from the CSS group that the teachers immediately told to get down. We don't know and vilifying people without knowing the whole story is senseless.

A lot of this is political. Otherwise, why isn't there talk of going after the group from Bronx Science that went into the water the next day. If it is negligent in one case, it is in the other as negligence does not always result in death.

also the parent or guardian I'm sure had to sign a permission slip.

Any criminal investigation needs to include the upper administration of Columbia Secondary School, for allowing this first-year teacher, a volunteer, and a substitute teacher to take these children to a notoriously dangerous beach. This school is known for it's chaotic administration. The principal has little respect for boundaries, pushes people (staff and students) too hard with too few resources, must keep his hand in every aspect of the school as if he can control everything. Well he can't. There is too little oversight and this is the outcome. He is known for his cavalier attitude about boundaries, safety, and regulations. He is responsible for what happens in that school. Knowing his management style, he himself probably allowed these kids--the best and brightest kids from School Districts 3, 4, 5 and 6--to go to the most dangerous beach in all of the New York City area, clearly to go into the water (as they were wearing swimming suits), where there were no lifeguards. He lets a kid teacher with no experience do this. He'd better not be scapegoating these three people for his misdeeds. Having seen him operate, however, I would be shocked if he didn't.