Forget about all this shit, really. It comes down to one important distinction.

I am to understand that if TARP funds were not issued, we would have had a major and/or partial collapse of the financial industry, numerous corporations would have fallen.

Now that they have the TARP funds, used them, repaid some, they gave themselves bonuses and stated record profits, AS IF the TARP act never existed.

That's the distinction. There's a difference between being taxed unfairly and leeching off someone's back for their own selfishness. I may have simplified too much, but genuinely it seems to be the latter. I think it's time for the American people to demand a 'bailout' of their own.

You're really anti-gun. Yeah it sucks that we're over there, and yeah it sucks that we have to pay for it. But these are temporary expenses (hopefully), SS and Subsidized Medicine are our long term issues that will ultimately lead to our collapse.

If you're looking for me to get into an argument over military spending, it's not going to happen. I would rather have more money in my pocket than bullets in some middle eastern.

Check this link out. Here's an article that illustrates the obscene amount of taxes we pay.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1272/is_n2576_v121/ai_13807542/

"In an average-tax state, a middle-income worker with earnings of $34,000 must pay $17,038 to purchase a $10,000 car--$10,000 to buy it and $7,038 for sales tax and the income and payroll taxes on the earnings used to pay for the vehicle. "

But we shouldn't consider those taxes because they're not direct, right?

Well not everyone, but 25% plus are underwater (that means the house is worse less than the loan).

HAHAHAHAHA, SS has 2.5 trillion dollars in treasuries. That's funny. Don't know if you are aware of this, but SS is part of the government. So it's like saying the government owes itself money. SS is insolvent as well as the government as a whole. They won't even be able to raise taxes enough to compensate for the insolvency, they will have to monetize the debt.

And yes, we are face down in gutter right now. Ask any economist, we are so f***ed, it's scary.

This just came out, 47% of filers paid $0 in federal income taxes. I wonder what impact averaging 47% at 0% has on your average tax rates?

http://tinyurl.com/ylsfemz

hahahahahahaha! I love it, you keep pointing to the average rate for everyone to "prove" your point. It's amazing.

Will this fat cat bonus tax create jobs? No. Will it encourage Goldman Sachs to hire more people? No. It will not solve private sector unemployment.

I thought I was finished, but you keep putting up ridiculous statements.

"haha. I love your math man. just add all the tax rates you can find together. sales tax. ss, some income, disability insurance...dont taxis charge extra at night? throw that on that too. come on man. seriously?" - You got me, those aren't taxes at all. Nobody pays all those taxes. I mean seriously, who even pays sales tax. Not me b/c I never buy anything. Seriously, those are taxes. Didn't really think anybody would argue that those weren't taxes that we pay.

You quoted the average at 37.1%. So you have some that are considerably higher, and considerably lower. Do those numbers include FICA? I know they don't include sales tax, which I guess you'll argue isn't a tax.

So you're "fact" that no one pays +50% in taxes is based on an average? Hmmm, that's not how things work. If they had given you an high and low, than you could have quoted the high.

I'm sure I quoted marginal rates and I guess that's what throws you off. Marginal means the last dollar you earn. Those are the ones that are typically taxed the highest.

I guess you're oblivious to how F#!@ we're getting every day. Lucky you. Once you become aware of it, all it does is just piss you off.

I'm finished, there's no ending with you. You'll keep misrepresenting some website to validate your ignorant ideology. I'm done.

I love the fact that the top .1% who only paid $1.6 mln each in tax represent 20% of the total income tax generated in the country! That is only 141,000 people. Clearly they have the means to actually leave the country. What the F would we do if they all left or even half moved out?

there is no other country where suits can get whatever they want, no matter how obscene it is, or how many people will go down for it.

If you represent the God money, anything goes. The more money you have the more freedom you get.

That is why they won't leave.

In other places there is this thing called moral responsibility that sets limits on how much "freedom" suits have above other people.

I LOVE THE CASH KITTY!!

Take my money sweetie kitty.!

suuuch a cuuute kit-ty. where's mah kittie, where's mah liddle kittie?

Has anyone ever gotten work from a poor person?

WFP = commie losers.

"What have you done for me lately?"--the cornerstone of ethics.

Aren't wall street bonuses already taxed? I'm pretty sure that I only get like 50% of my bonus after taxes.

its funny to compare the comments on this to the ones calling for the tax on soda.

the tax on soda is a tax on the poor at a good number of people supported it.

this is a tax thats clearly on rich people, yet you all seem against it.

I dont get that.

% wise not many of you can be from that class that would be effected by that. Stroll around the state and you'll see that there are obscenly rich people living mtv cribs types lives, while most for most people, economically, life is a struggle.

Its strange to me that people by default will be against taxes on the rich.

Because if you overtax the super rich, they have no reason to live in the state. Then you lose the revenue you were getting from them in the first place.

People aren't against taxing the rich. They're against driving them from state. Insane taxation policies have already broken everything but the downstate region. And it looks like the state assembly won't be happy until they finish that off, too.

"Insane taxation policies have already broken everything but the downstate region"

but what measure?

Outside of NYC, there is only a state tax. There are no city taxes upstate, yet nearly all the industry and culture is downstate where the taxes are higher.

you want to see where your potential tax dollars if you raised taxes on the wealthy, go to a high priced art auction, or see how they spend money in the hamptons or in any fancy nyc neighborhood.

the rich arent some endangered species that need protecting. If you don't tax it, they will just spend it on bling.

why do people without wealth, who have no chance of ever joining that class, protect those with it? I'll never understand it.

but what measure?

Population? Poverty? Unemployment? Take your pick.

Outside of NYC, there is only a state tax. There are no city taxes upstate, yet nearly all the industry and culture is downstate where the taxes are higher.

That's my point. The state has already driven business out of 9/10ths of the state because of the control the downstate region has over the rest of the state. The reason "all the industry" is here is because the tax policy is based on the uber-wealth of the city. It has broken the rest of the state. New York as a state is dying from the outside-in.

the rich arent some endangered species that need protecting. If you don't tax it, they will just spend it on bling.

No one suggested they were. But, if they have the choice between shitty weather and a 20% tax rate in New York or really nice weather and a 0% tax rate in Florida, why do you think they'll stay here? The Internet has killed the need for financiers to live near Wall Street. They do so at the moment out of tradition.

why do people without wealth, who have no chance of ever joining that class, protect those with it? I'll never understand it.

It has nothing to do with protectionism. What you don't seem to grasp is that people with means can just leave and are only subject to the tax policies until they don't feel like it anymore. Why do you think California's unemployment rate is 12.5% and the continually face budget gaps while overestimating their tax income?

I mean, do you really think that simplistically? So if they have to pay more they're just going to 'get up' and leave? Just like that, right? Debate with us when you get a grasp on real life, thanks.

And also -- spending it on bling (within the state) is good. That's what sales tax is for. As is buying that second house in the Hamptons or that loft apartment in Tribeca -- because that's what property taxes are for.