[UPDATE] Williamsburg Bagel Store Owner: I'm Priced Out for Starbucks

You Fu**ing people make me sick. This poor guy is providing a service to you dirty flakes and you could care less if he is gouged. I have seen most of you "Hipsters" in that neighborhood and I don't think any of you has ever taken a bath or worked for a living. If your local Heroin dealers were getting pushed out, I bet all of you druggies would protest.

fuck

Who the hell is anti-hipster talking to? You realize this is just a comment board, right? People can't hear you, and the hipsters are probably still asleep while the rest of us are at work.

Good riddance . This is what happens when "certain" People move into a particular area and drive up the price of everything . It's a dog eat dog struggle, and now a bigger dog eating the original dog ! So while I do feel bad for the small business being forced out by a greedy ungrateful landlord , You can't linger on the thought of morals and values when the very structure of our society is corrupt to the core ! It's all about the dough, & not must else !

haha. yuppie carpet bagging condo buyers have taken the developers bait and bought into the burg just like Soho- artists make it cool and then lifestylers want in on the action as though culture were a consumer commodity they could simply invest in.

traffic jams on quaint streets, strollers, and dogs. These schmucks will gladly shop at Starbucks and Duane Reade and there's only more of it to come so get used to it. everyone knows the real artists left because they can no longer afford it. I can't wait to see the L platform at Bedford in 5 years at 8:30 a.m.

i used to live in this neighborhood.

People were outraged when Subway came in and opened up a store. But from what I noticed, not a lot of people ever went there. Yet its still in business. so who knows.

But the neighborhood should simply not go to Starbucks or Duane Reade. So what if King's Pharmacy is expensive, it's a privately owned family business.

Boycott Starbucks and Duane Reade. That simple.

damn hasids,it's all about the almighty dollar with them.the guy paid his rent on time for the past 9 years and this scummer wants him out.that's why they will always be hated,they think that God affords them the right to be scumbags.

I have to disagree with you and most of the posters here. I as a Landlord know that its easy to be viewed as gouging..But in this market since rents are generally falling something doesnt make sense here except the following - Property Taxes and Water and Sewer rates have gone up significantly over the past few - public knowledge so if you have a retail tenant who lease is expiring - that tenant is going to take a hit in rent and escalations..Also this Owner may have had a tax abatement that is expiring now so its not always just about greedy Landlords - and the bottom line is that the tenant may just have to find a location that works better for him...its too bad unless he buys a building himself so he doesnt have to worry about those pesky Landlords every few years.

Unfortunately the people that are moving into Williamsburg will love Starbucks. Starbucks will do well here. I hate the change, but I have to accept it. The landlord of that property had the original tenants evicted on Christmas Eve about ten years ago and he will lose no sleep getting rid of the current tenants. You have to realize that Williamsburg is done. You can't fight it. Ten years ago, when I first saw black women pushing little blond kids around in prams, I knew it was over. The recession is slowing the change but it's not stopping it. Too bad. Now, if you want a cuchifrito or a link of kielbasa, you have to travel. If I could bring back Cokey's I would, but I can't. So long Williamsburg!

Rev. Billy calling for the community to break all the windows every morning sounds a lot more like "organized crime" than a landlord wanting to get the most for his very valuable property.

the 100% rent increase really sucks for the bagel store owner, but if that's what someone is willing to pay, that's what it's worth. If the community really doesn't want a starbucks there, then don't go and the it will not be successful. I bet it would actually do just fine though. I personally love pumpkin spice lattes in the fall, but I'm trying to cut back because my doctor says I need to cut back on caffeine.

BoooHoooo.......Bagel Shit hole out, Starbucks in.... ADIOS!!!!!!!!!!! Now lets sit back and watch the "passive Liberal locals" set the place on fire.

Geez, I didn't mean to put a bug up your rump. But enough with the nostalgia...

I vaguely remember visiting a Polish friend of mine on Driggs Ave 15 years or so ago. The neighborhood was awful, prostitutes roamed Kent Ave at night and there was this awful intermittent smell.... Well, thanks to the revitalization of the area, all of that is gone, but in cleaning it up, there has to be an expectation that big business would sweep in. I mean, big business follows the money and between 15 years ago and now... a LOT of money has gone into Williamsburg. (By the way, back then, "North" anything was called Greenpoint and Williamsburg was where you went to buy weed.)

I made an assumption about his rent costs not changing, ( to be fair, he was vague in his wording....) but the bottom line is that once Williamsburg started attracting people with money, the rents were going to go up. It's a shame that he hasn't found a business formula that will get all of those new rich folks to frequent his store, but apparently Starbucks thinks they have. It's crazy that you would demonize the landlord for trying to make a profit or Starbucks for trying to cash in on all of that influx of wealth.... Why shouldn't they?

Look, he admits that he has to borrow money from another location to pay for that one. That shows that a) he has a location apart from Williamsburg that IS profitable and b) that he had a problem in Williamsburg BEFORE the rent went up. Why wouldn't he cut his losses, sell off his equipment and refocus on the location that IS profitable?

The bottom line is: sure, Starbuck's coffee is shit, I've been saying that for over a decade, and their food stuffs are overpriced, but they turn a profit and they create jobs with benefits, stock options and full health care benefits. It's hard to feel bad for a guy who has options.

So renters are the only ones who feel this biting economy? The owner who pays property tax, income tax and all the other associated property costs is not entitled to maximize his property?

Get real, if someone offers you more money for the same job you're doing elsewhere, you'd be packing up your desk this minute. We all live in this capitalist society, better to buy instead of rent.

Bagel shop owner should have been looking for a store front to buy, when "nobody wanted to be in the place". Property prices were probably cheap.

Turkishjade writes:

"This guy has been paying the same rent for 9 years, runs a crappy bagel place that hasn't turned a profit since opening and he wants our sympathy?"

"...running his business in a way that could have been profitable in the last 9 years"

*********************

What the hell were you reading, I didn't read anything that said that. I work in a real estate office, and know about renting store fronts. I seriously doubt they were paying the same rent for 9 years. If this Yehuda guy is trying to rent a store that clearly has almost 2 years left on their lease, he didn't have them pay the same rent since the start. My guess is that their rent has probably already doubled. Along with all their operating costs, gas, electric etc. The electric I pay at home has gone up a lot in the past two years that I've been living in my apartment.

As for profit, I'm sure they made one in the past. I'll be 25 next month, and I'm a native to the neighborhood. I've grown up with the bagel store. There were times that the lines were HUGE! But, sadly, our economy has gone into the crapper!

Everyone is struggling. People all over the country are holding on, keeping their businesses going and hoping it's going to get better again. Growing up, my dad owned a very successful toy store. The larger cheap retail stores squeezed him out. Stores like Walmart and Target. Even when he wasn't making money, he kept it going and tried to make it work. That's what you do. When you've invested your life savings into a business, you don't just walk away when times get tough, you try to wait it out and sometimes even invest more money in the hopes it will get better. For all we know, the bagel guy is the same. As someone pointed out, it's going to be a big and EXPENSIVE task to move a bagel store. I'm sure he's got many thousands of dollars invested here that he'll lose if he doesn't move. Until you own your own business, you'll never know what he's going through.

Like, Citylion, I would love to know what he pays in taxes. But, in my experience, that doesn't matter. That cost is passed onto the tenants. Leases have tax escalations written into them. I'm sure the bagel store, kings, millenium health, corcoran etc are all paying his increases, so what's the big deal. He's not paying it!!

I was telling my older brother what was going on in his old neighborhood. LOL, he brought up some interesting points. He said that when the bagel store first came to williamsburg, no one would go in. Everyone thought that they were part of Starbucks. I guess I can see that, the colors are similar dark green, round sign, come to think of it, I remember this huge bagel outside too. I wonder what happened to that. Anyway, he said the bald bagel guy placed an ad in 11211 magazine with a picture of him looking very much like a Brooklyn guy with a caption that said "Do I Look F*cking Corporate to You" Classic! I had forgotten about that. Steve (my brother) said that he wanted to get the point across that he wasn't part of Starbucks. A possible Starbucks affiliation was hurting him. Doesn't that matter to Mr. Yehuda? I see Starbucks closing all over. Starbucks doesn't mean definite success.

It's ironic that the brand that he was trying so hard to distance himself from, is the brand that will be kicking him out. Sorry bagel guy, this really sucks.

It's a shame. Well, I know I'll never patronize Starbucks. Their coffee is the WORST! It's bitter and always tastes burnt to me. There is WAY better coffee all along Bedford Avenue. Who wants to go there for their high priced crap.

I'd much rather spend my money on a yummy french toast bagel with butter and cheddar cheese! Mmmmmm!

I hope you do move to the southside bagel store, otherwise you'll be sorely missed.

If I owned my own cafe (I don't!) I'd be all about the fastest possible service. Faster than starbucks even.

They're actually selling "an experience".

An associate from the Starbucks "press team" sent us a statement in response to our email inquiry, but ironically declared that she is "not a spokesperson and cannot be quoted." Enjoy!

haha - you're a dick

I've never understood why Starbucks has always been so hell-bent on having a store on Bedford Ave. Not only is there probably 5 places within a 4 block square radius that have much better/cheaper coffee - the image obsessed hipsters wouldn't be caught dead with a Starbucks cup in their hand.

Starbucks would probably do better opening a store further out on Grand St where there isn't a fifi coffee shop every 5 feet

Can we get some type of proof on those taxes that the landlord was jabbering about? It should all be public info. It just takes some digging, Del Signore.

Let's get all the facts on paper.

Hooray! Now I can finally move back there from Ohio!! Maybe Williamsburg can get a Wendy's in the pet store or Kings Pharmacy as their leases are up soon too. Gosh, I'll feel right at home in a luxury condo with all my favorite corporate brand free market champions right there without even having to go into Manhattan.

10 years down the road when the landlords try doubling (or tripling) the rent on the corporations they'll find they topped out the market. Empty spaces no small entrepreneur can afford and mainly corporate chain stores will have made the transformation complete. Then we can officially say the neighborhood is "done".

Being able to use my credit card to buy coffee, being able to get Starbucks chai without going to Greenpoin, and The Bagel Store potentially moving closer to the southside? Win!

Having to pay $6 in fees to take out a $20 bill to buy a $2 coffee because a local business doesn't want to pay credit card fees (and report correct sales on their taxes?) sucks.

At their prices, 160 coffees a day and they've made the rent. Long life hasidic landlords, the chain stores, and the people that can't live without them.

This guy has been paying the same rent for 9 years, runs a crappy bagel place that hasn't turned a profit since opening and he wants our sympathy? Pffft. This is like that "Mommy Rage" article. Some bubble this guy lives in.

We're in a recession and unemployment is still high. Starbucks pushing him out (and really, I'm just using that terminology to be kind... he's actually pushed himself out by not running his business in a way that could have been profitable in the last 9 years) will bring in more jobs, provide more people with health care and generate more taxes for social programs.

Just take a walk through the West Village to see what has happened there - it's now lost most of its character and is just one big out door mall where it's one Marc Jacobs or others of its ilk. It's getting very difficult to find the Mom and Pop shops. Sad.

Does Rev Billy support Governor Paterson?

Probably, they both prowl back alleys for bargains.

"There is no financial proof in any city or across this country for that matter that Starbucks has ever been beneficial to anyone"

you're fucking insane. do you realize how crazy you are?

starbucks gives out health benefits and a bunch of other good stuff. if the hipster coffee shop you are salivating for can provide that, i'll eat my hat

drop your fucking agenda and realize that starbucks will emlpoy more people that Bagel Store Man and that is good

I think the Jewish landlord is just upset that his Italian tenant is selling bagels.

All the people who hate on Williamsburg should realize that Williamsbuurg is not just Bedford Ave. I hate Bedford Ave just as much as anyone, but I live on a nice residential street with families that have lived there for years. Just throwin that out there.

Until you moved in, raised the rents, and forced those familes living there years out.

False. Most of the people who have lived in Williamsburg for a long time are homeowners.

I don't know guys.

I'm always down with having more public restrooms.

If said toilets happen to sell shitty coffee... w/evz.

Fuck Starbucks, fuck Williamsburg, fuck hipsters and fuck greedy scum landlords. You idiots deserve Starbucks, Duane Reade and McDonalds. Williamsburg is on big fucking laugh. Glad I moved the fuck out of that trendzone.

Wanna medal? Douche.

Let's us not forget that Starbucks also offers their employees health care benefits and comeptitive wages. So rather than complain it's corporate, rejoice that local employees will be now enjoy benefits that the "independent" bagel store could never offer. Kinda selfish to push corporate buisnesses away from "your" neighborhood, disregarding the needs of people that have no other choices but to work in coffee shops.

I don't agree with this sentiment, and here's why - I've worked at two places that do essentially the same thing - A small, local, good cheese shop, and a large, corporate, terrible one (whole foods, which essentially jams a specialty store into a supermarket) and found that while the latter paid slightly more and provided benefits, I always felt poor, tired, unhappy with my job, and slightly used whereas working for a small, personal business left me feeling enthusiastic and I ended up eating better and having more money in my pocket.

A small business can take care of their employees as if they were people. Starbucks might pay a dollar or two more and provide a more competitive benefit package (which, by the way, many small employers do aid their reliable workers in getting, even at cheese shops), but I don't believe that translates exactly to a better life for their employees.

i'm pretty sure being able to be treated for shit and not die/become broke is worth more than being sad at work :(

I'm torn on this because on the one hand, it's sad that a longtime owner is being forced out and his only choice is to pay double if he wants to renew his lease.

On the other hand, if you're a landowner and have the potential to earn double the rent because a big corporate tenant is coming in, why wouldn't you take it? You're doubling cash flow. It's business.

However, the owner seems sheisty as hell. I love the "taxes have gone up 20 times!" because if that was the real problem, then raise the rent in proportion to that, don't double it. Yehuda himself may not have spoken to Starbucks, but you know business associates have. This is capitalism baby . . if the lease is expired, the landowner has the freedom to do what they want. It's sad but it's the way of the world.

For the landlord's sake, I hope he didn't make the wrong decision. If Williamsburg is what Rev. Billy says it is, Starbucks could go out of business (it won't plenty of starbucks loving hippies in williamsburg). He better get a lease for more than a year, because nobody else is walking in there and paying $14.5K a month to own that space anytime soon. He'll be shit out of luck.

I love the "taxes have gone up 20 times!" because if that was the real problem, then raise the rent in proportion to that, don't double it.

Actually, property taxes *have* gone up a LOT. I know the maintenance on my co-op apartment is up 50% over the decade, and it's largely due to property taxes. Property values go up AND the tax rate has gone up, and the combined effect is pretty dramatic. (Scanning the article again it looks this guy is in fact seeing his first increase in a decade.)

'if you're a landowner and have the potential to earn double the rent because a big corporate tenant is coming in, why wouldn't you take it? You're doubling cash flow. It's business.'

this encapsulates what wrong with the world at the moment. you see everythings things from that perspective, and miss all the other sides to life.

I realize this article was put out there to drum up the usual Williamsburg / Hipster ire but this is really a shame.

That place sucks- bagel smith is better!

I second this

Enough with Williamsburg. Move that bagel shop down Bedford to the Bed-stuy side. Won't be taking anyone's business. Maybe poor KFC's or DD's, sob...

I've always thought Williamsburg WAS a Starbucks.

True, I only use it as a restroom.

The definition of Williamsburg is that it is the birth of culture

I guarantee that if this place becomes a Starbucks, it will always be busy with people buying coffee and full of aspiring writers loitering in their seating area.

please stop referring to the chuckleheads in starbucks with their laptops as "writers"... aspiring or otherwise. they're just posers, desperate for the pathetic validation that comes from being seen with a block of text and a flashing cursor on their macbook screen.

I was being sarcastic.

oh, i know.

Come to the south side, we need a bagel place. Williamsburg is already starting to suck and within a year nobody within reason is going to want to live there.

Starting to? It "started to suck" years ago.

Come on Williamsburg, what did you expect? I just cant wait until they get a McDonald's and complain on it not being hip. They only have themselves to blame for making Williamsburg hip and cool.

There's a McD's on Havemeyer and Bway. Better coffee that Starbuck's too.

Starbuck's coffee is bitter.

Who goes to Starbucks to buy regular coffee? You go for the specialty drinks! Fraps etc.

Then it should fit in perfectly with the bitter, surly attitudes that abound in Williamsburg.

From the book "No Logo: Taking Aim at the Brand Bullies, No Space, No Choice, No Jobs, No Logo" by Naomi Klein in 1999

""There have been other, more brazen ways in which Starbucks has used its size and deep pockets to its competitive advantage. Until the practice began creating controversy a few years back, Starbucks' real-estate strategy was to stake out a popular independent café in a well-trafficked, funky location and simply poach the lease from under it."

Wow. Sounds familiar. When will people finally stop patronizing Starbucks? It's not good for your community.

"No Logo" was the first thing to come to mind.

This is really messed up, I hope the owner can find a way to re-open at a nearby location.

Then the popular independent cafe with the poached lease should re-open down the street. Independent coffee shops usually get increased business when a Starbucks opens nearby:

http://www.slate.com/id/2180301/pagenum/all/

You're assuming the shop owner can find another spot with reasonable rents and that he can afford the cost of finding a new location nearby which is equally as large/nice, getting permits, construction, moving, having staff out of jobs for an unlimited amount of time while this magical new shop is being set up. This shop owner has a large space in a corner unit of one of the best and most highly trafficked corners in Williamsburg - I doubt very seriously there are any comparable ones even available.

That Slate article is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read & there is no actual proof that Starbucks has been good for anyone. All we've seen from them are small businesses going under and people getting laid off. This is the classic chain retailer spoon-fed crap - no better than Wal Mart.

Yes, no proof except for the coffee shop owners who were interviewed and the founder of the coffee shop trade mag who said, "Anyone who complains about having a Starbucks put in next to you is crazy. You want to welcome the manager, give them flowers. It should be the best news that any local coffeehouse ever had." Write back when the cognitive dissonance fades.

That's not proof! That's one person/ONE shop owner making ONE comment. There is no financial proof in any city or across this country for that matter that Starbucks has ever been beneficial to anyone. Actually HERE in this article is the proof that Starbucks is bad for communities.

That's cool though, if you want to help find this local shop owner who's been perfectly fine in his 9-year symbiotic relationship with this neighborhood a new place on that block so that some corporate company can come in and the money won't stay local anymore - maybe you can help him negotiate the rent and cover the cost of moving his ovens and equipment, getting permits to operate them in a new space, and the months of closed doors he and his staff would suffer because of it. Sounds easy! Or - maybe Starbucks could just go find that magical open spot down the street that's supposed to be just as good?

Please.

I'm not saying that relocating would be easy, just that it's wrong to think that Starbucks always hurts local businesses. Read the story again and you'll see it's more than just one coffee shop owner quoted. It includes a guy who intentionally opened a coffee shop next to an existing Starbucks after he saw the effect a new Starbucks had on his old coffee shop.

There's a deli on the NW corner of Columbus and 95th that from what I can tell through years of observation makes most of its money from coffee, eggs and sandwiches. Within the last 18 months a Dunkin Donuts opened next door and a Subway opened across the street. Yet the deli is as crowded as ever. I know I buy more heroes there than I used to because the Subway across the street puts me in the mood for one, and I know the best place to get one is at the deli, not Subway. And that's exactly what one of the people in the Slate article said, just with coffee and Starbucks. This won't always be the case but it's not as black and white as you make it sound.

BTW, the bagel shop owner in this Gothamist post already says that his business loses money! Sounds like Starbucks is helping him already.

shouldn't starbucks open on kent near the new development? seems more fitting. sorry to see you go, bagel shop.

starbucks has been on the slide lately. however, a storefront in wburg would rake it in, so i'm sure they're still hankering to get in there.

this is a shiesty move by the landlord, though. a 100% hike in rent is pretty brutal. but when was the last time a property owner/management company in NYC didn't try to bleed their tenants for all they're worth. that's america, baby.

In 2010, Williamsburg and Starbucks seem like a natural fit, like Peaches and Herb.

The Captain and Tenille...

Like Ashford and Simpson!

Too bad. I used to live around the corner from this store (before we were priced out of the neighborhood) and it's a good one. They even have bialys. But I'm sure Williamsburg's current residents will prefer a Starbucks anyway, to remind them of their hometown strip malls, and have no idea what a bialy is anyway.

Could these guys get any more hysterical?

The guy's arguments are that you shouldn't raise his rent because

1) He always paid on time.

2) He's from Bensonhurst.

And, for backup, you need Rev. Billy to argue that "Williamsburg is the birth of culture."

They should have tried "the neighborhood will suffer without access to my bagels."

HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

If you can't recognize the value of a quality neighborhood bagel shop with a great staff in NYC then your opinion can't be taken seriously. Go home.

Here is my opinion GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!

I bet my first born Yehuda isn't paying tax on that $14K a month.

He Probably under declares, invents expenses, 'donates' to charities that employ his relatives, and hides the rest in the jewelry.

the bagel shop man is a schlep. working for a living? ha.

"The definition of Williamsburg is that it is the birth of culture."

Yep, pretty much lost my sympathy right there.

Rev Billy is right if the culture includes over-privileged pseudo-radical holier-than-thou hipster wonderbreads like himself and his followers.

He meant the kind you find in a Petri dish.

Someone should find Rev. Billy's house and break his windows every morning. OMG! A corporate business wants to open up in our neighborhood! It's the apocalypse! Look, if you don't like it, don't give them your business, it's as simple as that. Starbucks has closed underperforming stores in the past and people I know work part time at Starbucks so they can get health benefits that their primary job doesn't provide. Yes, protest a company that provides fair wages and benefits. Wasn't there an article on Gothamist not too long ago how hipsters were forced to *gasp* get jobs because parents are weening them off the tit?

This is news... Last i heard about starbucks they got hit so hard with the recession that they had to close a whole bunch of manhattan locations. I think the landlord might be blowing smoke... But then what do i know?

That's why they're hitting Williamsburg - hipsters' trust funds won't dry up any time soon.

You may not like Starbucks (I don't), but the free market is not organized crime. And if the bagel store owner is really borrowing money from his other store to pay the rent on this one then he should be happy to close this money-losing place anyway, eh?

Yeah, Starbucks is more like organized slime.

correct. this is OUR fault for being lazy and choosing convenience over community.

Starbucks won't last just like the new Duaneread going up across the st from Kings.

Actually Starbucks would be the only coffee shop in the area to take plastic. So i'm betting it will hurt the coffee shops around it as well.

Point being that people WILL get coffee there in the morning.

Heh, yeah, people headed to work will NEVER grab a Starbucks on the way to the L. And on their way home, they'll NEVER patronize the Duane Reade, with its stupid convenient hours of operation.

The coffee shops around the area should start to accept credit and debit. They add a small surcharge to these purchases, because god knows why someone whips out plastic for a 10$ dollar or less drink, exemplary of why we have a plethora of frequent debt consolidation ads. In fact there's something made by hipsters in California that provides one with the ability to ring up purchases on an iPhone or Touch with a credit card.

All in all, this is a good thing, because one is not able to relieve themselves in Williamsburg at many places, so this Starbucks better have three or many more restrooms.

The small coffee shops advertise their coffee and become more outspoken about the quality (or lack thereof) of Starbucks' coffee and voilà the people still have the bathrooms.

and that service is called http://squareup.com/

People use debit cards, not credit for these purchases.

Payment Cards, when I write credit card. Apologies for not being for clear.

And another addition, the system works on any App supporting device with a headphone jack, and with this I will stop talking about the service, as I'm starting to sound like a spamming shill for this company. Didn't I start this conversation ridiculing those who do use a credit card to make small purchases? Why am I a failure?

Actually Starbucks would be the only coffee shop in the area to take plastic. So i'm betting it will hurt the coffee shops around it as well.

Point being that people WILL get coffee there in the morning.

Don't forget Duane Reade's shameful reasonable prices. I want to be a fan of Kings, but I feel like I've been shaken down every time I buy something there.

don't forget that duane reade will be walgreens eventually. so they'll definitely be entrenched.

lol