Babies In Brooklyn Bars Debate Goes National

There should be an age limit or requirement to bring children into a bar and a three drink maximum for the drinking party.

Anyone notice the photo on CNN? Look closely at it. The father, a cartoonish epitome of an entitled, mild-mannered Park Slope yuppie, seems to be completely oblivious of the fact that his child has tears streaming down her face.

Perhaps the kid is wasted.

Not only does it depend on time and day, it also really depends on the bar and the age of the child.

If you have to really question whether a baby belongs in the bar, they probably don't belong in the bar.

i take my baby to the welfare office

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAJeimYyaY8

The Ramones was one of the worst bands, absolutly horrible. I've tried to like them or even listen to them but it's impossible.

Listen I'm all about having your kids in a bar if its around dinner time and they serve food but certain hours of the day like from lets say 8 on I don't want to see, hear, or smell your kids. I think some people forget what its like for those who do not have kids. Make plans for earlier in the day or evening or go to a resturant that is family friendly almost ever place in the city sells beer, wine, or liqour you'll have your pick just don't bring them to a bar. I don't have kids yet but I know when I do I'm not going to bring them into a bar and be a buzz kill to those around me.

i believe it is time to grow up...Daddy cannot belly up to the ole bar anymore like he used to because he has a 1 yr old...what a shame.

I know in some bars around Brooklyn you can sit and enjoy your Old Speckled Hen while reading your Kindle and listening to Animal Collective on your iPod. It is all very urbane. However, if we were in almost any other town and someone brought there kids into the Elks Lodge or wherever to drink and "socialize" it would look rather...WT. I appreciate the difference but do not think it matters. Keep your kidlings home. If you want to socialize figure something out. You are not hip by bringing your kid to the GD bar. Stop trying to take this back, it belongs in the trash category.

I agree with every snarky fool on this rag. I don't yet have kids, but when I do not only will I have to pay for the joy of $6+ beers in NYC, but I'll have to double down on a babysitter. Being a parent, hopefully I'll drink at most half of what I do as a child-free drunkard.

I'm in SF for the next two days and the local news that I was too lazy to turn off just did a story about "Hipster Parents" who bring their babies to the bar. Damn straight this has gone national.

I didn't want to grow up, but I got a job. When I have children I'll be in denial about no longer being allowed to exist as a selfish asshole, but I imagine I'll do the right thing and spare you all from my children.

Try triple, baby. If you find $6/hour childcare, let me know.

When you have children, you have to make certain adjustment in your life. Children tie you down. That's how it is.

How privilege do you have to be to think you can bring your baby everywhere? Not all places in the world required to be baby-friendly.

"wait, i thought the law was that if you're under 21 you're not even allowed IN a bar?"

New York State law has no specific provision as to what age is required to enter a bar, however Section 260.21 in defining "illegally dealing with a minor" in practice sets the minimum age as 16 unless accompanied by a parent or legal guardian.

The State Liquor Authority, however, sometimes puts stricter limitations on individual licensees, going as far as prohibiting minors from entering the premises under any circumstances while alcohol is being served. So there are bars where it's illegal to enter if you're under 21, and bars where it's not -- though a bar owner can exclude anyone he wants to so many do not allow access to people who can not legally drink.

The idea that this would legally be "age discrimination" is absolutely incorrect. NYC Human Rights Law is not applicable because access to alcohol and places that sell it is under state authority. Section 3-03: "Any and all restrictions in access to public accommodations on the basis of a person’s age which are mandated by federal, state or local law shall be exempt..."

Lets be clear. If you are speaking about the drinking age, which is regulated by the state, you are correct that the NYC Human Rights Law would not apply. Even a discrimination suit by a 20 year-old under the NYS Executive Law would fail due to the State's over-riding interest in preventing underage drinking. I have spoken with an attorney from the State Liquor Authority who informed me that there are; however, no state regulations regarding children in bars. Absent any state law to the contrary, the city law would apply. That being said, it would be a waste of resources for a city agency to bring such a complaint.

Hmmm, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that is Matt Gross, the NY Times' Frugal Traveler columnist.

Ah, sorry. Just read the actual CNN article. They identify him as such.

The picture on CNN says it all, entitled hipster parents who can't grow up and move on.

I swear to kee-rist that dude on the CNN pic is a goddamn SMACK MAGNET!!!! that smug looking douche is just screaming for a good solid SMACK!!

This sensitive young father has an attractive beard which conveys his urbane sophistication, and his thick black glasses indicates that he holds left-of-center political feelings. I have no doubt this twee young man, likely a mid-western transplant, reads the Believer and considers Away We Go his favorite film.

If you're 19, you get carded. If you're 4, you get to run around the bar and trip the waiters.

wait, i thought the law was that if you're under 21 you're not even allowed IN a bar? That was the line bouncers used to give when you said "I'm not gonna drink, I just want to see the band"...?

I don't know when it happened or why, but parents no longer use babysitting services. Friends and family members with young children will drag them to adult parties and nighttime graduation ceremonies, not caring about seat counts, meals contracted for, or limits on tickets. It really frosts my panties. (My kids are adults now.)

I don't think any amount of alcohol in baby free bars is going to help the majority of you to get laid judging by how grumpy you all are. Yes, it's annoying and his comments were really annoying, but it really isn't that big a deal. How often does it actually affect you? No, I'm not a parent, and no, I don't like it, but most of you are doing more kicking and screaming than the babies.

Only people I agree with are those that say bring back smoking and then it wouldn't be a problem. But then, most of you would whine and moan about your clothes smelling....

Such a yuppie problem. Why, in states like Arkansas and Missouri, you actually get a 2 for 1 special if you bring your toddler.

If they serve food, a la Hope and Anchor, yes. If not, NO.

I go to bars to make babies, not to listen to them.

I'd think that you go to bars to hopefully mimic the act of making babies, not actually make one...

Depends on the type of bar wink wink nudge nudge say no more say no more know what I mean?

My father used to bring me to the local old man bar all the time. It was totally fine, all the regulars and bartenders knew me/us, and nobody cared.

The important note is that I was like 5-6 when this started. Not an infant.

Well here's the thing - in *some* places in the world, bars are central social locations (Ireland and the UK have lots of bars like this). These types of bars you hang out in with your extended family/friends it's not anywhere near the same feel as it is here. I think it's fine for a bar to have that as it's business model, but it should be the bar and bar owner that decides that, and then everyone would know it's a family gathering/social sort of bar, not a "get your drink on without an 'effin kids around" bar.

or this clown could just get a job like the rest of us. after all that adult contact im sure he would love to drink more

"isolating. Bars, as much as they're places to drink, they're places to socialize and meet people. I long for adult contact... I don't want to be excluded from the adult world."

What part about when you have children you should put their best interests first don't these people understand? I am not saying their children should be spoiled and smothered with attention, but goddamn, stop thinking about yourself for two seconds! This is a little life that you need to take care of and mold into a functional member of society that hopefully won't end up to be a navel-gazing schmuck like yourself!

one word breeders: babysitter

leave your brat at home. nobody wants to hear them crying, screaming and seeing them being breast fed. oh, by the way, nobody cares when you post your stupid kid's update on facebook either. get a life, loser parents.

updating your own status on facebook is just as lame.

In NYC, I don't see why this is even a issue. It's not like you have to choose between living the life of a hermit or going to a bar. There are plenty of restaurants here that you can take your kid to, meet up with friends, and still get a good beer or whatever. But, as long as it's before 5pm, taking your kid to a bar shouldn't be such an issue, as long as your kid isn't screaming it's head off, and as long as you accept the behavior of other's around you.

Personally, I have no desire to take my 1 year old son to a bar. It's not exactly the most relaxing thing in the world to make sure he's not touching everything, while worrying about where to change his diaper, and trying to keep him entertained. If I want a drink, I can have one after he goes to bed, and even invite a friend over.

Well said.

The last thing people want to see, while trying to get laid at a bar, are the consequences of those actions should they happen. Nothing makes a girl less likely to bang you than seeing a baby, when all they want is a martini.

But babies are chick magnets.

i can just imagine what would happen if it wasn't uppity parents from brooklyn heights wanting to bring their children to a bar but a minority of lower socioeconomic status-->insert judgemental, blanket, racist statement here

Right on. If a Puerto Rican lady with four kids showed up at a PS bar, shit would hit the fan.

Sorry, but anybody with four kids in this city deserves to be judged negatively, and not for being in a bar.

It's trashy behavior no matter what race you are. Human garbage is pretty much the same no matter how it looks on the outside.

While I hate the fact that virtually everything on this blog turns into a comment/argument on race, I must admit that this is an excellent point.

+ 32 millz

Awesome, now people from other states are going to think young NYC parents are all irresponsible alcoholics.

That's probably what got them pregnant in the first place.

simple solution. classify having babies as a disability and sue bars for discrimination under Title III of the ADA.

No need to claim a disability. It would be considered age discrimination under the NYC Human Rights Law to exclude children from bars, regardless of the time of day or night. Double Windsor and bars that have similar restrictions are violating the law. Technically, "ladies nights" are also discriminatory under the law; however, they are not of sufficient public interest to persue.

Believe it or not, other than minors drinking, the State Liquor Authority has no prohibitions regarding children in bars.

Um...no. NYC Human Rights Law specifically states:

(b) Notwithstanding the foregoing, the provisions of this subdivision shall not apply, with respect to age or gender, to places or providers of public accommodation where the commission grants an exemption based on bona fide considerations of public policy.

Age limits on bars are perhaps the paradigmatic example of subsection (b). Movies are the other classic example. See the following site for more info:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/cchr/html/ruleschrch3.html

The age limits are on drinking, not presence. Obviously, the state has an interest in regulating the drinking age or setting a minimum age to enter a porn theater. These public interest policies can not be challenged as discriminatory.

The section of the law you quote requires the NYC Commission on Human Rights to take the overt action of granting an exemption. Are you suggesting that they have done that for all NYC bars?

Yes. Just as the Code provides an exception for movie theaters ((b) Any and all restrictions on the basis of a person’s age in access to public accommodations displaying motion pictures with ratings by the Motion Picture Association of America, Inc. shall be exempt from the provisions of §8-107(4)(a) of the Administrative Code of the City of New York), so the code exempts bars on public policy grounds (although a cynic may say its really about economics-- the State wants to allow age discrimination on entrance because the bars will then only have 21+ people in them, will in turn sell more alcohol, which creates more tax revenue for the City/State)...

It would be interesting to see some teenager challenge the rules, but they would lose. Quickly.

See my comment below. NYC's Human Rights Law is not applicable, because access to alcohol is regulated by the state, not by the city. The Human Rights Law bows out of any issue otherwise covered by federal, state, or local law.

If you long for adult contact, get a babysitter and go out with some friends. Bringing your baby to a bar will not facilitate adult contact beyond "why the hell did you bring your baby to a bar" and "please get that thing to stop screaming, I'm trying to drown my sorrows in whisky and johnny cash." You're probably excluded from the adult world because your last name is Gross.

I have to say, it depends on the parent more than the kid. If you're a bad parent who knows how to ignore the noises for attention your child makes, then no. I don't want to be bothered by your kid - or you for that matter.

I don't get this guy's argument. Being at home is "isolating?" He "longs for adult contact..."

Nobody is saying parents can't come into bars. They're saying BABIES can't come into bars.

Hire a sitter, fer Christ's sake. What is hard about this?

Sounds like bringing babies to the bar is only the beginning of this dude's problems.

exactly.

"I don't want to be excluded from the adult world."

You shouldn't be, but your toddler should!

this wouldn't be a problem if smoking was still allowed in bars.

EXACTLY.