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Bronx Communities Not Racist, Just Picky

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A few weeks ago the Times reported on two mostly-white Bronx communities that are accused of plotting to keep black families out, but inside the developments many think the charges are “baloney.” They say their co-op boards are picky, but according to Richard Ardisson, a firefighter who lives in Silver Beach Gardens, “That’s what keeps it nice. Everybody’s got a good job. No one wants garbage in here.”

The Fair Housing Justice Center—the group that’s suing the communities—sent two couples, one black one white, to inquire about purchasing homes in the two communities on Long Island Sound. In a federal lawsuit, It accuses a broker for Silver Beach Gardens and Edgewater Park of warmly receiving the white couple, while turning the black couple away. Allegedly she told the pair the communities were “Archie Bunker territory.”

Some residents claim it’s not who you are that will get you into the community but who you know. “If you don’t know people here, you ain’t getting in, I don’t care if you’re the president,” Jim Tibbatts, a retired construction worker who lives in Edgewater Park told the Times. Still according to the lawsuit a broker offered to procure recommendations for the white couple, but made no such gesture for the black couple.

The communities were born as beach developments in the early 1900’s and have remained safe spaces from the rough Bronx neighborhoods that surround them. For people who live there, a fear of outsiders reflects concerns about dropping property values and increases in crime. “Historically, it’s been a white community, and people usually sell to someone they know,” said one man. “Sales to outsiders I don’t think are too common.” Another added that even if a “rich black person” moved in, he said “Someone would figure, ‘There goes the neighborhood.’”

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Comments [rss]

  • inoyourider
  • wingedearth

    Why would black people complain about housing? Their very exclusive and unwelcoming communities have, by far, the best housing in New York City. Have you seen the beautiful brownstones and other historic stone houses in Bed Stuy and Crown Heights? That's what they have and they're still complaining.

    Meanwhile, 20-something white yuppies with good incomes live in the most horrible and closet-sized tenements in the East Village and Lower East Side, or else live in factories and industrial warehouses in Greenpoint and Williamsburg.

    So stop your whining.

  • wingedearth

    Beautiful brownstones in Harlem too. And very unwelcoming to whitey (ever since the blacks fought the Italians over the neighborhood in the 60's and won). But the Times doesn't report on that.

  • dgeee

    Have any of you white liberal guilt tripping apologists ever live in a predominantly black neighborhood? I didn't think so...

  • Spirit of 76

    I'm not black. And yes, I have. Next question.

  • starrygordon

    So the government can't regulate the marketplace. In that case, I have a nice bridge to sell you.

  • Spirit of 76

    Hey, starrygordon, where have you been keeping yourself? In all these Gov Paterson stories, we're missing your spirited defense of your BFF. Tell us again how he's the governor who can do no wrong.

  • starrygordon

    Gosh, what a load of stuff. Yes, as an apparently White person I lived in a predominantly Black neighborhood for several years. So do a lot of other people. Go look at Harlem or Bedford-Stuyvesant sometime, if your tank has windows.

    Spirit of 76 -- I never said Paterson could do no wrong, but I don't see what the big deal about him is. He's about as good as anyone who gets into office is likely to be, which I admit isn't saying much. I just appreciated his giving the Kennedys and the media the back of his hand (although he was much too polite about it).

    Polite New Yorker -- according to the Supreme Court, the government can regulate the marketplace to some extent, including openly traded real estate, to suppress racial, religious and some other discrimination. I don't have space to put the case law on Gothamist, but you can find it if you really care. Apparently the ruling class doesn't care to have a Yugoslavia- or Rwanda-like civil war here. If you don't like it, get together with your friends and change the Constitution and then maybe you can have that war, or solve the problem some other way if you can think of one.

  • Polite New Yorker

    I'm asking that people have control over their own property and not be subject to authoritarian government, I hardly see how that's advocating for a race war.

  • starrygordon

    Polite New Yorker -- as as said, there isn't space here to go into the case law, to say nothing of the sociology, legal philosophy and so forth. The r.c. is not going to permit the Balkanization of the U.S. into hostile little racial and religious territories because that would interfere with their other aims, so they justify laws against prejudiced behavior. It's not hard to do this because most people believe prejudice is immoral. As for the possibilities of race war, I doubt if the Yugoslavians or Rwandans are made of different stuff than Americans, and in fact we had the beginnings of race war as recently as the Crown Heights riots of the Dinkins era, so thinking "it can't happen here" is probably a mistake. In any case we are not going back to the racial order of the 1950s. If you could come up with some other solution to the problem I am sure our mighty leaders would be grateful because overriding people's prejudices is politically costly.

    Spirit of 76 -- I'm sorry I haven't been posting enough about Paterson to keep you amused. I had no idea you were one of my fans. However, most Albany politicians and politics are really, really boring, and unless something extremely grotesque happens like the Caroline Kennedy media frenzy about Paterson or the recent one, I can't be bothered. So you think Paterson is corrupt? Wow!

  • Spirit of 76

    Ah, so you're so petty that you believe "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," to the exclusion of actual accomplishments. Sorry, but if say, "thefacts" or "felixthecat" were to smack you down here on Gothamist, I still wouldn't consider him rational, interesting or someone to associate with. I consider the entire person, not one little aspect that may be agreeable. You used to be so proud of Paterson for that one action, but now you don't even so much as show up to comment in any article which reveals his sleaziness and incompetence, which basically has been all of them in the last few months. The appropriate assumption would be that you're ashamed of him. A fair weather friend indeed.

  • Polite New Yorker

    The government can regulate the marketplace to insure against fraud and danger (that bridge you're talking about), but if someone makes a personal moral, social or religious choice about who they do business with, that's none of the government's business.

  • Polite New Yorker

    As morally reprehensible as this supposed racism may be, people have the right to sell or not sell their property to whomever they choose for whatever reason they choose. The "civil rights" laws that would force people to sell to someone they don't want to are unconstitutional and unfair. And the efforts of our government and related activist groups are often aimed exclusively at white neighborhoods.

  • starrygordon

    I wonder if we couldn't have little reservations here and there for racists. They seem to be into it, and then the rest of us would not have to put up with them.

  • nycgurl

    This situation is racist. Many hate to hear racism, it is a reminder of this country's ugly history and many Americans still encourage the practice. For the record racism- the institutional denial of rights and privileges based solely on color differs from prejudice- dislike of because of some characteristic.

    ie. You don't like your neighbor because he's black- who cares, no problem; realtor tries to keep blacks out of neighborhood, people care, definite problem.

    Color is thrown at the plebeians while the rich of all colors laugh at the scrapping for crumbs.

  • Nix

    Broadway sounds like a white version of Uncle Ruckus.

  • lucy van pelt

    ZZZzzzzz

    S.S.D.D. at Gothamist

  • Rocko

    Lmfao. Do you know who you remind me of? BLOOMTURD, you are asked questions or critisized about thing you rather not touch on so you side track and try to pull alil stand up comedy its a joke really. And nothing ive said is outragous or made up, their just opinions questions and facts. But im really not suprised because when you have a history and present like the one your trying to defend, it bothers you alil and it probably bothers you even more for it to be coming from a white guy but i understand

  • inoyourider

    Shit, I slapped you around like a 3 year old.

    You haven't cited one 'fact' you've mentioned so it's all just BS.

    You're just one of the idiots who gets blinded by the simplest of distractions.

  • inoyourider

    There's nothing to defend, you make no actual points only sling BS.

    And your analogy of Columbus Day and terroriSm is pretty poor. A better, (and still cool 'down on the US') example would be the events leading up to the American Revolution.

    You're just full of self-loathing aren't you?

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