Video: No Truce At Bedford Avenue Bike Lane Debate

The Hasids can't double park in the bike lane, so they had the bike lane removed. End of story.

Ve Do Not Vant our young boys looking at

the shiksta'a butt on dem bikes in our hood.

Who got those stats that Bedford Avenue is the longest road in Brooklyn ? That cannot be accurate . Somebody needs to recheck those stats . As for the debate, There shouldn't be one at all . The streets are for everyone, Not just the stinky in the summertime jews .

an old Polish man who lived in Warsaw before World War 2 once told me "The houses were owned by the Jews and all we owned the public streets" Today in Warsaw the Poles own their houses and the streets they walk on.

Something for me to chew on huh ! Thank you Ol Wise One ! But the sad fact is, In this world those for whom Talk seem to do the walking, While those whom Act get results ! Sadly, Bitching and complaining about other's Habits, and Lifestyles while using Religion as a backdrop seem to be an effective weapon for the religious sect within the Jewish Community. Oh and having a Politician or four in pocket helps to !

The young folks that live in Williamsburg pay high rent to the Black Hats in those rat infested lofts. Take a trip down to south Williamsburg, here is a lot of brand new housing going up for the Black Hats, they know how to pull the right strings in City Hall and get tax breaks for those new apartments. The Polish are smart they don’t deal with the Black Hats. The Polish have a credit union that finances the mortgages for homeowners and loans for small businesses. The credit union was set up in the 1970’s because the major banks redlined Greenpoint.

Sorry for the long post, but I have something quite relevant to add here, from a rare perspective.

This is but the first step in a strategy that shows some hope. Baruch is a reasonable mediator/organizer, with ties in both communities. And a lot media coverage has been overblown ; the hasidics' objections have been mischaractorized in the media, and so have the cyclists'. Only in dialogue (a respected Jewish tradition), can both sides break through the filtered images and get to know each other as 3-dimensional people. I hope more of these events are scheduled. (full disclosure, I don't not know Baruch, but I know many of the people he works with. These ain't you hipster trustafarians. These are people who;ve been working since we hit puberty (like I have) and know a thing or two about a thing or two). So I have no compulsion endorsing anything Baruch wants to do. Isaac Abraham too, is coming from a workable place, I think. And another thing, a lot of people on both sides of this debate come from a Jewish background. This helps.

A lot of people don't understand the (ok, limited) intersections between the communities. Art Bar ran a Hasids and Hipsters night for a while.

And there's this:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/76545/trembling-before-g-d

The Orthodox are not a monolith, and neither are the cyclists. I've seen Hasids (full grown on bikes in Williamsburg) And I always yiield to pedestrians, even if they jawyalk.

(exits stage to strains of "Can't we be friends, can't we just be friends" - Stevie Wonder)

for HunterBlatherer:

in a perfect world these groups could learn to cooperate.

but the whole MO of this sect is tradition for the sake of tradition. their real opposition to the bike lane has to do with the symbolic value of the bike: individual freedom

that's a dangerous symbol for their kids to see.

I suspect Abraham participated in the debate was for its

PR value--the guy's running for office.

First off: Abraham! I owe you a pen. You disappeared before I could return it.

OK, what were you saying? Oh yeah, you made some very good points!

I have some experience working with public officials, and finding solutions that profit both. Not always successful, but life is about learning.

Perhaps we could talk about this offline. Find my contact here if you're interested:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/huntergather/

Oh, and from whom would Isaac get good PR from? Not the Hasids.

ps: I wasn't at the debate. I borrowed the pen in the summer.

Second paragraph, in the middle, should read: "These ain't your hipster trustafarians." I don't want to be a jelly doughnut for a typo.

I love most hasidim. My issue is only with the mayor who catered to hardliners to get himself elected. I would love to keep the pressure up on the mayor until they get an independent investigator to look at this issue and how he corrupted the system to get re-elected to his illegitimate 3rd term.

The city is run by Jews; why is anyone surprised the Hasids could get a bike lane removed?

And a couple hundred bus stops, There own bus routes, that stop @ city bus stops .

a lot of cyclists, regardless of their religion (or lack thereof), held their noses and voted for bloomberg, because he put in so many bike lanes.

so it was especially offensive to learn that, weeks before the election, he convened a meeting to secretly assure Satmar leaders that he would remove the Bedford Avenue bike lane, if they voted for him.

he knew he already had the cyclists' vote, so how legal was it for his campaign to sell off a crucial piece of the city's bike infrastructure in order to secure the vote of one insular religious sect?

how would New Yorkers feel if bike lanes on Atlantic Avenue were removed because of concerns from 'conservative' Muslims upset about scantily-clad lady cyclists?

it's not the issue of one bike lane; the issue is why this sect is allowed to make its own laws which supercede those of the city and the state.

Because they own the area. They have for years. They get to say what happens. That's how it works. If you want to paint bike lanes, go to your own neighborhood that you own all the buildings in and have been paying govnt officials off for the last 70 years and do it there. Get it?

I commend Heather and Baruch and Issac for having the chutzpa (sp?) to stage this debate and get these issues out to the neighborhood.

As a cyclist, I'm concerned for my own safety when I see scores of yeshiva school buses repeatedly turning into bike lanes, at an angle, to stop and let students alight.

maybe they're stopping at an angle because their own lane is blocked by a double-parked minivan?

Heather mentioned this safety hazard in the debate.

For an article on this issue, I'd like to post an 'author's query'.

does anyone have any photographic proof of this possible traffic violation occuring?

it would seem to me that school buses, even if they're Hasidic school buses, must be required to stop parallel to the curb, and not at an angle obstructing the bike path. In some cases, I've noticed the Hasidic school buses stopping like this for no other reason than to specifically cut off cyclists who might pass the bus on the driver's side (which would be dangerous as well).

any replies to my account would be much appreciated, and kept confidential

Just like the San Gennaro Feast will NEVER get shut down on Mulberry despite complaints year after year, Hasidic run Williamsburg will ALWAYS have traffic issues. They own the neighborhood. Call it mafia if you want. Welcome to New York.

How could anyone care about something so fucking stupid are you serious.

I care a lot about not getting creamed by a car or truck when I`m "sharing" a public street. Yes I`m serious.

i assume since we're talking bedford avenue, by "car or truck" you mean semi-functional, decade-old minivan.

Pointer, the crew in south Williamsburg is not afraid of a fight, they are not pushovers. A few years back they had a street brawl with a rival Hasidic group, the incident was reported in the NY Times.

Haha that's funny. I guess they don't realize that the Hasids own the buildings the hipsters live and work in. You're not supposed to fight your own landlord. It may be a long, cold winter.

Just watch the video the Cyclist advocates they dont even listen to anything issac says, they can careless about the other sides pov. They just roll there eyes and shake their heads on everything he says. Get a flat tire

Excuse me--but anyone really expect a truce or pact to come out of a discussion at Pete's Candy Store?

Seems to me that the hipsters don't know how to play hardball. The way I see it, you make this offer. You give us bike lane; we let you keep playing ball in McCarren Park. Cuz everybody knows that playing baseball in Hasid getup is a moral and aesthetic travesty of our national pastime, an objectional conduct much worse than nudy biking--and infinitely less sexy.

I'd rather watch hasidics play baseball than a naked hipster any day. Just thinking of naked biking hipsters gave my brain syphillis

They only know how to play dodgeball and kickball, sports they were notoriously picked last for as teens, so now they feel the need to make up for it in their thirties, when the people in gym picking the teams 15 years ago have real careers and families and lives, and forgot all about dodgeball.

If the Black Hats had their way south Williamsburg would be enclosed behind a high stone wall, just like a Medieval ghetto.

Pullease! Like motor vehicles don't "ride through the neighborhood dangerously and occasionally hit pedestrians." What would you rather be hit by?

"...because cyclists ride through the neighborhood dangerously and occasionally hit pedestrians."

Ah, the irrational argument of DANGEROUS BIKE RIDERS OF DOOOOOOM reared it's ugly head.

"..."Biking is a new issue, nobody knows how to deal with it yet," added Abraham, who said his wife was hospitalized after being struck by a bicyclist."

Sure, it's a new issue and sure maybe nobody knows how to deal with it. This is why you plan and try things out and see if they work...like protected bike paths.

And sorry about the guy's wife, but if she was indeed hit by a car a) she would be much more seriously hurt, b) and he wouldn't try to outlaw car traffic on Bedford.

Trying to argue against irrational arguments comes up empty yet again.

I don't blame the community for opposing it (I disagree with them and feel strongly that they are wrong) but I blame the city and DOT for caving, isn't that whom we should be debating or hearing from?

I agree. Who decided to remove it once it was put in? Gothamist, why dont you start an exclusive journalistic story. Ask the DOT to explain what was the process for removing the bike lane. Was it brought up offically, etc. Then when they dont respond, continue to write about it.

I would like to see Gothamist do more journalistic work. Less lady gaga. more journalism. What do you think?

Anyone can ask DOT for info regarding this, and via FOIL should get it in about 3 months.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/contactdot/assist.shtml

thank you for the link, I have done so, but it won't be much of a public forum.

"I think, like, the bike lane, like, needs to be there as transportation infrastructure, dontcha think? Like, if the sidewalk on the other side was there, like, would you say there is no need for, like, a sidewalk on this side, like, because there's, like, two sidewalks?"

Isn't there a humanitarian crisis in Haiti?

Yes and they deserve bike lanes too. Thanks for your input.

The young people in Williamsburg are learning the facts of life in NYC politics. In 2009 before the election Bloomberg paid a visit to the Black Hats to firm up the Hasidic vote. You can be sure that their leaders can make a phone call to the right commissioner and be heard, all young people in Williamsburg have is 311.

A very cogent analysis. You think newbie hipsters vote? If you don't vote, you don't get heard. Politics 101.

Moreover: ""When it comes down to basically sharing limited space with each other, if you have more potential to cause harm, you have more responsibility," said Samponaro, who insisted that cyclists should aim to befriend pedestrians, not terrorize them,"

Finally, the cyclists have gotten the message. Took them long enough. Maybe when they start showing respect, they will earn respect.

Newbies can't register to vote anyway with their out-of-state IDs, that's for certain.

You don't need a driver's license to register to vote.

I guess you have never registered to vote.

Biking is a new issue, nobody knows how to deal with it yet???????

ARE YOU SURE OF THAT? THE BIKE WAS INVENTED BEFORE THE CAR? CITIES ALL OVER THE WORLD ARE BIKE FREINDLY, ARE YOU SURE NOBODY KNOWS HOW TO DEAL WITH BIKES & TRAFFIC.

MORON.

because cyclists ride through the neighborhood dangerously and occasionally hit pedestrians????

SO DO CARS MORON, AND THEY OCCASIONALLY HIT PEDESTRIANS, CARS & BIKERS.

impartial observers are needed, the only actual real danger is the way the hasidics drive with impuniuty.

buses, vans & passenger cars all ignore the rules of the road and traffic lights and stop signs because they get away with it as a protected group. thats a fact, thats not anti anything so dont start with the hating. thats the freakin truth that the plebians on the street see with their own eyes.

Bikers ARE sometimes dicks. The solution to that is normalizing biking; like with say clearly delineated bike lanes? Heck, can't we start closing down some of the through streets to make them bikes only?

Exactly. The better the infrastructure, or even the existence of infrastructure, begets better respect for the law from cyclists. The lack of infrastructure begets a sense of lawlessness from cyclists.

"Biking is a new issue, nobody knows how to deal with it yet"

Bwhahahahaha

Exactly right.

I have ridden and driven down Bedford ave several hundred times and the only thing that I see as a threat to me is the Hasidics who have no regards to their surroundings..They walk their baby carriages right out into oncoming traffic,the busses cut across 2 lanes to let the children off without even looking to see if there is anyone in the lane next to them. And I will not even get into the way they drive. I have on several occasions almost collided with a minivan or something similar who decided to run a red light.

The point being is..they do not want a bike lane because they just do not like to pay attention to their surroundings..

I guess they really think they are gods chosen people and are invincible.

I agree that a lesson in not jaywalking would serve this community better than removing the bike lanes. Bicyclists are going to use Bedford Ave, bike lane or none. Sure the fast moving trucks and cars on Bedford are scary to me as a bicyclist, but what really terrifies me is the pedestrians frequently appearing from between two minivans with no regard for traffic -- cars and bikes. Only at the busiest intersections of Manhattan have I needed to be so wary of pedestrians -- and at least there it's isolated to intersections.

I like the updated bike lanes on Kent, and especially the newly added concrete barrier near the BQE exit and Flushing. I will use that route as much as possible, but sometimes Bedford is best to get me to where I'm going and it's too bad the lanes are no more.

The Hasidic community just sent an activist! not even a member of the community. Speaks volumes about their willingness to debate. They aren't!

"For his part, Abraham emphasized that the Hasidic community doesn't oppose the Bedford Avenue bike lane because of scantily-clad cyclists or community politics, but because cyclists ride through the neighborhood dangerously and occasionally hit pedestrians."

Next they are going to have the city remove the roads, because cars are sometimes driven "dangerously and occasionaly hit pedestrians."

The only way that bike lane comes back is if you take it back just like the Hasidic community got it taken away. You tried a polite debate and the other side didnt't show.

Yeah.

If they want to make the argument that cyclists are somehow espcecially dangerous, they should back it up with facts.

The problem is that all sorts of vehicles can be used dangerously, but since the complainers use cars they can't attack increased car use without the hypocrisy being too obvious.

I can't watch the video now, but I can imagine there was a lot of whining and kvetching taking place.

yeah and how do you change things, by shutting up and rolling over?

did they really have to choose the dirtiest, manliest looking woman-child with gross sailor tattoos all over to moderate this? i imagine some of the more conservative types there might all the questions distracting.

of course. They have a responsibility to accurately represent the neighborhood.

God these "bikers" are soooo cute....thinking they can sway the minds of the chosen people. In New York fer krissakes!!

Too, too cute.

This debate probably has more significance than the Nixon / JFK presidential debates in 1960. The venue for this event should have been moved to the United Nations because of its sheer importance alone!

Bedford is too narrow, bikers should use Kent Ave

I don't understand the issue here. The presence or absence of bike lanes does not cause bicyclists to use or stop using Bedford Avenue, nor does it improve or worsen their etiquette. It all seems to be much ado about nothing. If the Hasidim don't like the painted lines in "their" streets, fine, let them do without. It will make no difference.

haha. you havent been to the area. bedford south of the williamsburg bridge all the way down to SHEEPSHEAD BAY is 2 lanes. That's probably 14 miles of AVENUE.

it speaks to the corruption in the city that the Hasidics had this bike lane removed. There is absolutely NO valid reason for their not to be a bike lane on Bedford. the only reason the Hasidics dont want is they're a prejudiced bunch who dont want to share the public streets with outsiders.

so you are one of those dudes who rides the wrong way on bike lanes... Last time i checked bedford runs one way south to north...

Go south on Driggs and return via Bedford,

The young people in Williamsburg should organize a Sunday afternoon bike ride through south Williamsburg. The Black Hats will be making frantic phone calls to their friends in City Hall to get you locked up.

Sorry, I dont use Bedford south of Metroplitan Ave

you're missing out. do yourself a favor, walk or ride it one day.

Its been a about a year since I was down there. I need to go down there this afternoon for a walk, thanks.