Is Vegetarianism Dead?

wow...the comments section is even sadder than the article basing the whole story on 2 restos that changed their menu....

this whole top of the food chain bit - give me a break!...yeah i could eat a cockroach 'cause i'm bigger and stronger than it, but that would just make me a caveman, excuse me cavegirl, scavenger.

fyi enviro types it take 20 acres to feed you annually compared to 1 acre for us veggie folk...consider your footprint if nothing else.

This thread has reminded me why I tend to avoid reading the comments.

If half of you took the time to read any articles on global food shortages and considered how your eating habits effect this trend you might think before comment.

As sookieyama rightfully pointed out, feeding an animal for years is a waste of land and energy. Not to mention that the methane gas that your steak farts and burps out throughout it's lifetime.

If you want to understand why some people are vegetarians check out "The Way We Eat: Why Our Food Choices Matter". Plenty of vegetarians like or love meat but choose a vegetarian lifestyle after they realize the baggage that eating meat carries.

the simple rule is: if you feel good eating meat, then go eat meat. if you don't feel good eating meat, then don't eat it.

and if you don't feel good looking at others eating meat/not eating meat, then it's time for you to learn how to feel good so that you don't think like a stupid fucking idiot.

sorry about the last phrase. but i had to.

Who cares? Let 'em eat their 'organic' meat and die of colon cancer at 60. People that dumb deserve to die young.

Humans naturally need a sense of morality. It could be a simple as helping an old lady across the street, returning a wallet full of money, giving to charity, etc. The elevated sense of self from the actions of doing good feels better than the actual action itself.

Vegetarianism is more closely related to culture and religion, rather than pure logistics or the politics of eating meat. Realistically, vegetarianism barely makes a dent in the number of animals killed for food.

The reasons people choose to be vegetarian are cultural. It's like any other culture. Every culture has its own key attire (concert t-shirt), music (indie rock), activities (yoga), rituals (potlucks), world views (democratic party), theism (agnostic) and of course, key culinary staples (tofu and soy). Even though it's a sub-culture (culture within a culture), we should respect it like any other culture.

Because it's not a respected subculture, some vegetarians feel attacked, and tend to impose their personal views of morality on others who do not share their cultural beliefs. The problem is hastened when vegetarians try to "logic" their way through a debate, where double-standards are easily found (for example, a vegetarian photographer who smokes and wears leather boots). An orthodox could technically say someone is not really a jew or catholic or whatever religion if they have tattoos or have sex before marriage, for example, but we know that's not the case.

Vegetarians should instead feel proud of their belief and (sub)religion as simply that. There's no reason to have to justify one's beliefs. These idealogical conflicts, just like any other cultural conflict, change no one's mind on either side. But vegetarians, like non-vegetarians, have to respect that everyone is different as well.

Thanks for the Sociology-101-pat-on-the-back, Mr. REALITY CHECK, but for most animal advocates I know, it's not a religion any more than civil rights, feminism, or gay rights are religions.

It's not about faith or a belief in something spiritual. It is a legitimate social justice movement. It's not just about "me and my opinions" vs "you and your opinions". There is a valid perspective left out of the equation entirely: That of the animal. Every animal has a will to live that is just as strong as yours and mine and that exists entirely outside of what you choose to believe.

I sense a bit of defensiveness in your response, Joshua. Re-read my comment again. Take a deep breath. Concentrate. Work on the "empathy" part of your brain, this gives the ability to see other points of view. It hurts the mind at first but I recommend trying it out.

Yes, *of course* vegetarians believe it's a social justice movement with all their hearts. (This is insulting to actual civil rights movements, but that's another topic. Interesting you said this on MLK day.)

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. So that means vegetarianism is a morality. A "culture." (Okay maybe not a duck, a Tofurky.) The grasping at straws to try to legitimize it as anything other than a culture ALWAYS draws heated and pointless debate, because it's impossible.

IT'S OKAY that it's a culture. Embrace it as a culture and watch the anger melt away. We live in a society that is supposed to be accepting of people who are different and have different beliefs. This goes for *both* meat-eaters and vegetarians. Live with each other in peace.

Just cuz they have a will to live doesn't mean they don't sometimes end up as lunch.

Really? I had no idea people ate animals all the time...

Ultimately, though, you have to believe that the perspective of the (other) animal is significant. Most people are nihilists in this regard. Indeed, if dropped into a culture where cannibalism and slavery were accepted, they would accept them. To change people's minds about something like meat, you first have to overcome that massive blind indifference, and that seems to occur only as a sort of emotional or intuitive jump -- a religious experience, one might say.

HOW FRESH CAN DEAD BE ANYWAY? (Sorry folks, I'm just saying ...)

The next thing they'll be telling us is that "fresh is out."

People who make claims like this are the same ones who said rock was dead in the early 70's. Yawn....

it's not. That's why prefer still kicking, or moving. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWwUd3KOGuw

Please check out the response I wrote to this ridiculous article in the NY Press here: http://www.thediscerningbrute.com/2010/01/13/meat-pride-revisited-ny-press-flesh-mob/

The surge of meat-pride in a culture that is already overwhelmingly meat-centric is bizarre to say the least.

If only these folks would simply admit they are selfish and don't give a crap about animals or the environment and stop scrambling to make excuses and justifications, we wouldn't have to have this conversation. It's an admittance of guilt.



“Humane” or not, livestock are contributing the single greatest source of greenhouse gases in the world (According to the UN and World Wacth Institute)! But in the realm of short-term self-gratification, this does not factor in.

One thing we know for sure is that in almost every single case, an animal will not willingly subject him or herself to the customs of the slaughterhouse. They want to live and they want to avoid suffering, and this is demonstrated in their own behavior, not in a person’s belief. If animal advocacy were a religion based in personal belief and blind faith, as opposed to a very real social justice, scientific, and advocacy movement, it would conveniently suit the trendy-meat subscribers.

Can you imagine a rapist standing over his victim and proclaiming, “You had a very happy life up until this point, and I am totally at peace with what I am about to do to you.” It’s preposterous. The same can be said in any case of exploitation, because clarity is simply that. It does nothing for the victim.

The whole "I witness therefore it's OK" philosophy is a bunch of crap.

I will cook you and eat you if I see you.

that's a really brilliant point you've made.

I haven't eaten red meat in almost 20 years. But I still eat poultry & fish. Do you care? No. Do I care what you eat? No.

I don't understand all of these preachy comments vis a vis eating or not eating meat. The bottom line is that different bodies need different things. The veggie diet that works for one person may malnourish another. There's enough variety here in the city, in both restaurants & food stores, to satisfy everyone. So whether you're a meat-eater, a vegetarian, or what the fuck ever, who gives a shit? Life's short. Eat what makes you happy & live your life. End of story.

Blame "Avatar". If a race of beings living completely in tune with nature can eat meat, and be skinny and athletic to boot, why can't we?

Of course, for their meat they hunt the animal down and thank it for it's sacrifice; they don't buy factory-farmed mystery meat from a fast food joint. So for wannabe Na'vi quality/organic/grass-fed/etc. meat's the next best thing.

i wonder why NYC has the most vegan/vegetarian restaurants in the world? i am vegetarian, healthy and proud. for all of you that make such silly, uneducated comments towards a healthy lifestyle and glamorize meat consumption are just plain ridiculous. in the end it won't matter, the joke will be you and your colon. fools.

i like evil_seitan's point of view, but I also have to say i wonder if with this new meat trend (it's a little concerning that what we put into our bodies is a trend) we will also see a heart disease, colon cancer, illness and obesity trend as well.

ha! one lackluster vegetarian restaurant in the outer boroughs (with an always-crowded Manhattan equivalent) flops, a few too many fence-sitting semi-vegs who likely ate animal rennet cheese and got copies of Omnivores Dilemma, plus the endless bacon meme, and now vegetarianism is dead?

judging by the type of comments we've got here everyone is well represented: political vegetarians, angry, toxins-racked carnivores, and no major comment from the rest of us who are happy about what we eat, especially here in NYC, with it's wide diversity of food.

PUKK sure wasn't dead tonight, we got the last seat.

Judging by the posts above, it's clear that eating meat makes people retarded.

I don't know about retarded, but it certainly seems to make them angry or afraid.

I really couldn't care less about people eating animal flesh, but I do find it amusing that some of the preachy meat eaters here need to point out just how adamant they are about poisoning themselves and just how preachy fucked up the rest of us are for not doing the same. I suppose the upside for meat eaters would be getting a daily round of steroids and antibiotics in your burger or roast rump, and that would certainly help if you have a dose of the clap.

How about not worrying about food?

"Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels." - Kate Moss

HAHAHAHAHAHA

jesus fucking christ! why is there so much hate towards people that don't eat animals? i have no clue why some feel a need to make fun of and make cruel generalizing statements.

maybe because i have been vegetarian for about 20 years i am so out of the loop as to why what i eat is such a contentious issue. it's such a non-issue in my everyday life. most of my friends eat meat and i don't judge or ever bring it up. i am not sickly looking and rarely get sick. i am fortunate enough to live in nyc so i can eat amazingly delicious veg food.

i know i shouldn't take this personally, but i hate that some people are so quick to judge based on dietary habits. maybe because the annoying vegetarians are the most outspoken so those are the only ones people are exposed to? trying to understand...

a- eating meat is totally trendy, just like being vegetarian was trendy before. lucky for all of you that doesn't mean -you- are being trendy when you eat meat or are vegetarian.

b- being a vegetarian doesn't mean you rely on soy any more than a meat eater. soy is in tons of stuff everyone eats, like movie popcorn. being vegetarian doesn't mean you eat tofu and soy milk at all.

c- people who think all veg*ns are preachy only think you're veg*n -when- you are preachy. or they think saying "i am vegetarian" is preaching.

d- you'd be surprised how many vegetarians work with tom mylan.

ps. it'd probably be more accurate to say trend pieces about meat eating being trendy are trendy. because most people haven't changed their diet for a trend, either way.

How's this? I don't tell you what to eat or judge you for your personal dietary choices, and you don't tell me what to eat or judge me. Sound good? Good. Next topic.

Signed,

Happy omnivore.

sounds good to me, but what will the guy write in "stuff white people like"?

Stuff White People Like: judging you.

Being a vegetarian and dining in restaurants can be difficult at time, but I bet it's more difficult to find restaurants that actually serve organic meats.

Try http://www.bareburger.com/ in Astoria, it's one of the best burgers I've had in a while.

Having worked as a Cheesemonger for several years, my experience has been that (after visiting many farms), for both quality of taste, environmental responsibility, and animal-cruelty reasons organic is a meaningless buzzword/sticker and it's SCALE that matters. Buy from the smallest sources you can if you want the best taste and most responsibility.

When you prepare foods and mix ingredients, it's no longer certifiable as organic so they just use whatever's cheapest.

Two important points:

1. Red Bamboo Brooklyn, if it's true your business declined, it's because your service sucks more than nearly any other restaurant in the borough (except perhaps V-Spot). It has nothing to do with people ceasing to eat vegetarian food.

2. Boogie Down, the soy grown in the Southern Cone is not used to make tofu or fake chicken nuggets or whatever else your pro-meat fantasy of vegetarianism's environmental destruction assumes. That soy is used as feed for animals that carnivores like you eat.

Way to come out of the gate swinging there, tough guy. First off, the Southern Cone is nowhere near the Brazilian Amazon. Much of the soybeans cultivated in the Brazilian Amazon do end up in soy-based products. I'm not a carnivore, I'm an omnivore. I was a vegetarian for many years, so don't talk to me about "pro-meat fantasies" (way to sound crazy!). Want to know why I quit? I was staying with a family for several weeks in Latin America and didn't want to insult them by turning down what they had worked so hard to put on the table. To this day, I eat very little meat compared to the average American, and what I do eat doesn't come from Brazil. My point was that we'd all do better to eat locally sourced and minimally processed food, regardless of what that type of food may be. Also, what NannyState said.

Which frees up a considerable amount of the world's soy production for your Vegan Rella and Toffutti Cuties. You can't de-link the pipeline and you can't pretend you're above the rainforest devastation fray.

Meat eaters always smell a bit like shit.

Well when you go around sniffing people's asses, then yeah.

I notice that, that's why I take it easy on the red meat.

same with drinking milk.

but then I've noticed people who only eat salads have stinky farts.

Just adding that I no longer eat soy because I discovered I am mildly allergic, and I don't necessarily think that all the soy-based fake meat out there is any better for you than a big fat hamburger (if it's grass-fed and relatively local). I think there are many vegetarians out there who are discovering the same thing and are turning away from soy as the production gets more and more industrialized.

I love how the vegans get defensive about being deemed "preachy" and then proceed to preach, preach, preach. Nothing like fitting a stereotype, huh.

How is that preachy? Someone else was talking about how bad the soy industry is and I was simply backing them up (ignoring the fact that most of the soy grown here and abroad goes to feed livestock). I don't think that processed soy is any better for you than fresh, local, humanely raised meat.

I agree, how is he preachy coming from a guy who's forum name is "Eat Vegans"? c'mon now.

Agreed with commenter #42. I'm a pesco-vegetarian who came into my eating habits first and foremost because I never liked the taste of meat. When I learned about factory farming methods and the environmental destruction caused by the meat industry, it only confirmed my choice. If people ask me why I eat the way I do, I tell them, and if they want to know more about how eating meat affects the environment, I direct them to one of several authors who has written about the subject (one of them being Michael Pollen who is a confirmed omnivore). I am not a preachy vegetarian and neither are most of my friends who are veg or vegan. I'm not sure when or where people are running into preachy vegetarians or vegans unless they are regularly attending PETA protests.

I don't judge meat-eaters for their choices just as they shouldn't judge me for mine. It kills me that the carnivores who are blowing their loads all over this thread and taking it as an opportunity to bash vegetarianism are doing the exact same thing that they claim they hate about veg/vegans. They're becoming preachy meat-eaters. "Suck on cow tit"? Really?

do you know anything about the fishing industry? it seems you acted on the knowledge you gained about factory farms, etc., so it's hard for me to imagine how you'd be okay eating fish/seafood if you knew what it does to the environment, whether it's farmed or not.

I do know about the fishing industry, and I try as much as I can to consume conscientiously caught fish (I'm the kind of dork who pulls out the Monterey Bay Aquarium's wallet-sized Guide to Sustainable Seafood at a restaurant). I also eat fish less than once a week and cook only vegetarian at home (my husband is lacto-ovo veggie). So yes, thanks for checking but I'm well aware that eating fish is not great either.

Read EATING ANIMALS and think about it. It's not "propaganda" and it doesn't say "don't eat [this]" or "don't eat [that]." Instead, it looks at the sources of 99 percent of food in America, and then you're free to decide if you really want to be a part of it. This isn't really appetizing, is it?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/31/us/31meat.html?sq=beef%20products&st=cse&scp=3&pagewanted=all

Meat, vegetable, fish, it's all industrial produced shit and it will all make you sick.

Exactly. There is such a small percentage of our food supply that actually qualifies as real food nowadays that we're probably all better off just starving to death. The underlying problem that all of this stems from is industry (capitalism). They feed animals hormones so that they can sell more meat. They spray chemicals on the fruits and veggies so that they don't spoil before they can be sold. They put preservatives in everything for the same reason. And they put nitrates and artificial coloring in our food so it looks more "appetizing." All of this is because our food shipped to us in cardboard boxes by national corporations instead of local suppliers. However, for you suckers out there who are willing to pay a little something extra for real food, the organic food industry is more than willing to smack you in the face with their giant penis.

why are meat-eaters often so passionate about what vegans/vegetarians eat? Most vegetarians don't preach their diet but there are so many loud-mouthed carnivores out there that take issue with people eating "fake meat" or just for being vegetarian in general.

Are you that subconsciously guilty that you feel the need to blast people who go out of their way to not participate in the slaughter of animals and destruction of our planet for meat? being vegan takes a lot of time, money and hard work. It is not convenient. Why talk shit about being doing good when it effects you in no way!?

Yeah, it's not like they're clearing huge swaths of the Brazilian Amazon, a.k.a. the most productive ecosystem on Earth, for soybean cultivation. Just because you're ignorant of the environmental ramifications of soybean (a major staple of many vegetarian diets) cultivation does not mean they do not exist.

If you're really concerned about the environment, educate yourself on where your food comes from, whether it be plant, animal or fungi. Also, don't have more than one kid. Overpopulation is the real issue when you're talking about the environment.

I don't want your soymilk in the aisle next to my moo cow fuck milk

Non preachy vegetarians? Where does one find those? 'Cause it seems all we ger around here are the preachy, self-absorbed types.

And for the record I had a lovely vegetarian stir fry last night.

meh. new yorkers, esp. those of the demographics mentioned in the article, are slaves to trends. what else is new?

no kidding, I've had it when the "hipster butcher" term came around. and, if it's covered in the NYT.

anyway, everything in moderation.

I go cow crazy once a year at peter lugers. I go there for the steak and only steak, don't need pretentious waiters or ambiance, just my cow rare.

tofu? love tofu, especially the deep fried ones.

veggies the same. stop following trends.

essentially, it is fine to eat meat if you pay a lot for it?

yes. It's also fine if its cheap. People like you need to be told what is hip or not, or you would starve to death.

PETA = people eating tasty animals.

unoriginal, but i had to.

I love eating meat. Steak and fries at Relish diner in Williamsburg... fantastic food.

http://www.relish.com/

huh? new york press is an authority on something all of a sudden??!! yeah, right, and fox news is Da TROOF!

"Eating animals is apparently hip again."

Wrong. It was NEVER "hip" and never will be "hip", dumbasses.

You're right, it's hip to smell bad, wither to a scrawny pale alien lifeform and sport idiotic tattoos under your hemp t-shirt. Your blood cell count's a little low, time for some more tempeh burritos!

You're right, its not 'hip' its 'the natural order'. God gave us canines.

We need to get all those nature shows off TV so that people can get this archaic notion of eating meat out of their minds.

If we weren't meant to eat animals, they shouldnta been made out of meat.

lol thank you, Mrs. Palin. I almost forgot that quote.

You betcha!

I would like Vegans/Vegetarians to explain why eating "fake" meat aka soy burgers/chicken/tofu turkey is ok for YOUR kind to eat but REAL meat eaters can't eat real meat.

you preach to meat eaters that eating meat is wrong blah blah blah YET SOME of you vegan/veggies eat this fake trendy hipster tofurkey burger shit????

"ok look at me I"m saving a cow but eating a fake burger" Oh look at me eating a tofu buffalo wings!!"

SUCK ON COW TIT.

Now I like to consume meat, not quite sure how I fare without my meats, my beef, hamburgers, steaks; pork chops, ribs; chicken braised, rotisserie-d, roasted, fried, etc; lamb chops, sausages; fish, sautéed, fried, fried with chips–in the british sense and argentine fries that accompany argentine that are made with beef tallow or lard (they're beefheads down there). However I see nothing wrong with occasionally buying that package of Boca Burgers, which I'll say with a straight face, are tasty.

If you dislike the taste, don't eat it. You come off as thinking that veggie burger's are unethical and akin to consuming Soylent Green. If you want to raise an ethical dilemma, ask for better conditions in meat farms (used in the sense of how animals for consumption are raised), as animals really aren't meant to shove in pens, they're meant to roam slowly enjoying their lives til slaughter, which is much better than keeping them in a cell and feeding growth hormones.

And if you're a vegetarian/vegan, I commend you. (I actually don't care, as long as you don't support stupid causes and fight for the good ones like the Ringling Bros. Elephant incident, good on you PETA! Now I'm going to eat my veggies, fruits, grains and whatnot, so I can give my metabolism a couple of extra years to catch up with me.

And for felixthecat, I don't mean "meant" as meaning that a life of sacrificing oneself is the purpose of an animal. You really can't save them all. But keep trying!

just so you know, man, it's not the idea of burgers and sandwiches that we object to, it's the meat part. That's why it's ok to eat sandwiches not made with meat.

why do YOU have a problem with soy burgers? fine if you don't like the taste, but they're pretty inoffensive..

hey i dont find the food offensive....it's the vegan/veggie ppl that preach to us omnivores why it's bad to eat meat - while places like Red Bamboo or whatever - have fake chicken items on their menus.

You want to pretend you're eating a chicken burrito or dish but w/o eating the chicken.

how does that make sense in what the vegans/veggie preach?

I like my soybeans to be soybeans and my burgers to be burgers. Quit pretending to be something you're not, soybeans.

See, this is what I mean -- yeah, the benefits of a vegetarian diet bla bla bla animals are people too bla bla bla -- but why does the decision to go veggie always turn the participant into a sanctimonious holier-than-thou wanker? Is it the lack of protein that does it?

Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it's hard to be noticed not being sanctimonious. Maybe some people make choices about what to eat that are good for them, and leave it at that. Which wouldn't describe the comments being made by meat eaters here, now would it?

"Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it's hard to be noticed not being sanctimonious."

Good point. The people who aren't sanctimonious are the ones who don't talk about what they eat, but just make their choices.

There's no way to tell how many of those might be here on either side of the aisle.

Many years ago, before it was fashionable, I became a vegetarian for what I could call personal religious reasons. For several years thereafter I endured unending harassment and derision from people like most of the people who are commenting here, although I did nothing to provoke it. I take it many carnivores feel guilty about eating meat; they certainly react very defensively even to the concept of vegetarianism. I think Limbaugh or one of them even said all vegetarians were "terrorists", so that's the kind of company you're keeping.

Eventually this sort of thing died down, but I see it's living on in the underworld, ready to flare up at any time. Unfortunately, it's pretty boring, the same old stuff, time after time.

If there is anything that's a sign of decay, though, it's something becoming hip in New York. Clearly, a tidal wave of tofuburgers is on the way.

Do you know where I can get Vegan Cow Tit ?

I have no idea what you're saying. Is this in English?

it's ok to PRETEND to be a meat eater buy eating that fucking tofu shit.

ok im finished.

http://bacolicio.us/http://gothamist.com/2010/01/14/is_vegetarianism_dead.php

within the past two years orlando has seen three new exclusively vegan businesses open.

therefore, this article can fuck right off.

There are 128 restaurants and cafes in NYC that are at least 100% vegetarian. More opening every day (4 in the last 2 months alone).

source: http://supervegan.com/restaurants.php

Orlando is not a real city. Notice how there is no Orlandoist? No one cares what happens there. 3 new vegan spots in Orlando and you think that means anything to anyone? Therefore, YOU can fuck off.

What are those three vegan businesses doing now? Cannabalizing each other?

Orlando is not New York. So please DIAF.

maybe you should stick to reading Disneyist

it's not that it's hip again, it is that all those evangelical vegans from 2007 got sick of watching everyone else eat delicious savory meats while they choked down a tofurkey burger. quitters.

I have personally converted 3 people from being a vegan to eating meat. One was a girlfriend who I explained to that eating red meat will improve her sex life. So true.

This is straight up hearsay on my part, but I had a friend who swore his girlfriend's... um... bits... tasted like honey after she went vegan. I asked to verify, but he wouldn't let me.

It's true, it does make them taste better, but who wants a grass-fed girlfriend?

Felix.

It's hard to take any of these trend articles seriously. But, I've known a lot of vegetarians who decided to fall off the wagon or just not come back. If this is true, could it be just a matter of age? It seemed so radical and now it seems so inconvenient or silly.

A cheapskate boyfriend.

sorry, but we're human and at the top of the food chain. there's never been an instance of over-killing cows for beef or pigs for pork, or chickens for...chickens. they are raised with the specific intent of being slaughtered for human consumption.

$8 hamburger or $12 tofu burger- hmm, tough one.

Well, we're near the top of the food chain:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/01/14/2010-01-14_great_white_shark_the_size_.html

See figure 1:

http://tinyurl.com/yzvysx7

If humans are on top of the food chain where does that put the bacteria and other critters that devour us once we're dead. A hierarchical food chain is a really inaccurate way of thinking about nutrient cycling in the biosphere. A food web, where no particular species is on top, is much closer to reality.

mmmmm.... food web....

Yes, but in that web we are the hungry, hungry spider chomping down on all the tasty, tasty flies.