everyone can look forward to this caliber of people becoming firefighters. these are the type of people who will be protecting the city with the constant lowering of standards to become firefighters.

they shouldn't ever be allowed to wear the fdny logo..the ufa and ufoa should demand they at least wear a different color uniform. i'm embarrassed to be associated with these mutts. i also feel for the good emt's and medics that have to be lumped in with these pieces of shit.

oh one more thing, thanks to everyone who voted for bloombag! firehouse closings coming to a neighborhood near you!

Does anyone know what she actually died of? It's possible even the best care at the scene would not have changed the final outcome.

Playing devil's advocate, it's also possible the pair of veteran desk jockeys could have actually worsened her situation had they intervened. What does 'recently recertified' mean in this case? Drinking coffee and chatting while a video plays followed by blowing into a mannequin?

no it's general tort law...as i said...i haven't looked up NY's law

OK, that's what I thought. You're just making it up.

See the link provided above for NYS Public Health Law. Pay attention to subsection 4.

"So if they're off duty and somehow not covered by their liability standard, and god forbid made a mistake during the rescue...they are liable for it out of pocket"

Is that just idle speculation, or can you point to a reference for it?

Not sure about NY Good Samaritan Law...

But generally those only apply to non-professionals

Since they are EMTs they're held to a their prof standard

So if they're off duty and somehow not covered by their liability standard, and god forbid made a mistake during the rescue...they are liable for it out of pocket

Consider this too...generally...professionals can't collect from people they save if they happen to get injured while helping

Can be sued...can't sue...it's a double standard that really would make anyone hesitate to help someone unless they're required

This is all being investigated and if criminal charges are brought, it will be because within all of these considerations, those two scumbags failed to be of any assistance. They didn't do the right thing, they didn't do the wrong thing, they did NOTHING.

In fact, the reverse is true. Good Samaritan laws originally covered professionals only. The last thing you want in an emergency is somebody with the right training to say, "I'm off the clock. I'm not going to risk doing anything. Too bad for you." Eventually, they were changed to cover laymen, as well, since just because they're not professionals doesn't mean you want them to do nothing. There are exceptions in some jurisdictions that limit protections for laymen, but New York State isn't one of them.

From a human standpoint, they are scumbags. I have had the basic at work CPR/First training everyone has, and I've stepped in to help people out when I can.

However, maybe they have a legal issue. Possibly, if they aren't on the clock/on call, they aren't covered by their liability insurance through work?

Even when they're not on duty, there's little liability. New York State, like many others, has a Samaritan law for emergency care. As long as it's clear that you're trying to help and not being criminally negligent in the process, you're safe. Such laws and statutes were passed specifically so bystanders aren't frozen into inaction by fear of liability.

The Good Samaritan Law only applies to lay people. It does not protect medically trained professionals (EMTs and Paramedics).

Citation, please? Because it definitely appears that New York Public Health Law section 3013 says otherwise.

That section seems to cover only members of volunteer ambulance services.

Good point about the Samaritan law.

Really... what excuse can these two animals give at this point to justify their behavior?

I don't have any idea why that line, "but some union officials have defended their actions" is there. There's not any quote above from any union official in the piece above -- so, which union officials defended them, and how? The closest link to a real news story to that line contains this from their union president:

"We don't know what went down in the coffee shop, but we do expect our members to step to the plate and do cursory examination of potential patient," he said.

Doesn't seem like defending them to me.

So is that just supposed to stir up some controversy and generate comments and pageviews through pro-union vs. anti-union arguments?

As I understand it, these people worked for the call center NEXT DOOR. They are call dispatchers and NOT EMTs.

What's happening is alot of posing at the moment. An investigation will hopefully turn all of this up.

Read the comments in the previous posts here on Gothamist. As EMTNYC has repeatedly tried to explain, you must be a certified EMT in order to be an FDNY EMT dispatcher. Notice this from the post above: "Though they worked mainly in the office and not in the field, a source told the Post that they had been recently re-certified to provide aid to patients."

All EMD Dispatchers are uniformed EMT.

Unions have long since outlived their usefulness. Can anybody cite when was the last time any union actually improved working conditions for their members? I'm talking about safety, not hours, pay and benefits.