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Is there anything more horrifying than being locked on the subway with a knife-toting murderer? About two dozen commuters found themselves in that hellish situation early on Saturday, when they were locked on in the first car of an uptown D train with suspect Gerardo Sanchez, who according to witnesses had just stabbed a passenger to death in an argument over a seat.
While police celebrated the train crew for keeping the doors locked for several minutes until police arrived, the Daily News spoke with a handful of commuters who felt that the decision put innocent bystanders at risk. "[They] gambled with a lot of lives," said Richard Kaye, 45, of Morrisania. "God forbid he had stabbed four more people." But at least one brave straphanger, Leo Genn, 52, of Chelsea, said the decision might prevent similar attacks. "It shows people in the future that if you commit a crime on the train, you're going to get caught," he said. "My instinct is they did the right thing."
Meanwhile, the Post examines whether or not passengers who witnessed the attack made a mistake when they pulled the emergency cord, bringing the train to a screeching halt in the tunnel between the Rockefeller Center and Seventh Avenue stations. MTA Transit spokesman Charles Seaton told the paper that commuters should never pull the cord when the train is between stations. When contacted by Gothamist to further explain the agency's position, Seaton said:
"Use the emergency cord only to prevent an accident or injury. For example, if someone gets caught between closing subway car doors and is being dragged, pull the cord. But if your train is between stations and someone aboard becomes ill, do not pull the emergency cord. The train will stop, preventing medical professionals from reaching the sick passenger. A sick person is better off if the train goes to the nearest station where police and medical services will be waiting or can be quickly summoned, without interruption."
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They did the right thing. We might never know who did it if they had opened the door and the guy had run away. If the guy hadn't stabbed anyone else by then, chances are he was done.
Also, whoever pulled the cord is a moron.
I don't know -- I've never seen any other emergency notification systems on the D train other than the cord. Have you? Once I've had to notify a conductor of an emergency, and I literally had to sprint to the front of the train to tell him in person because there was no call-box on my carriage.
You can run to the conductor's cab at the next station. In midtown, you'll probably get to the next station before the conductor manages to wander back to your car looking for the brake puller.
Still, that gives the murderer plenty of opportunity to run away...
Only pull the cord if someone is under the train or caught in the doors of a moving train.
Otherwise you cause more problems since the train needs to be manually re-started.
And thats one to grow on.
Not as comfortable as looking at those porn-style American Apparel ads.
Probably better to risk his escape than to risk people's lives.
ITA and I don't know why that isn't obvious to everyone. Yes, it's important to capture criminals, but not if it means putting more peoples' lives in jeopardy. Locking the doors is a seriously messed up policy.
True, whoever pulled the cord wasn't thinking straight (or was an infrequent subway rider), but locking the doors while the train is in the tunnel between stops? Not only could you end up with more victims, but you could have a hostage situation on top of a murder.
In a subway tunnel, unless the you knows the maintenance side-tunnels like the back of your hand, you only have two ways to go. If it only took the police minutes to respond, why not let him out and pick him up in the tunnel? Even if he makes it to the platform before the police, they can track him with CCTV. If this dude was crazy enough to stab a stranger over a subway seat, I wouldn't want to be locked on the train with him.
The train was in the station when the doors were locked.
For one, the people trapped in the car could had been harmed if the guy had been crazier. On the other hand, he probably would had gotten away and may or may had not been captured.
My brain says it's better to secure the passenger's safety. There are other ways to catch the perp.
This is stupid. Did they do the right thing? - Yes, cos he only stabbed one person.
Had he stabbed the remaining 15-odd people in the carriage while all locked-in? then No that would not have been a good decision.
oof I'm sorry to be OT but that american apparel ad is gettin me hott
got some real beaver shot there! and omg i love fishnetz!
meow
If I'd been on that train, someone would've had to restrain *me* from getting all stabby on the moron who pulled the emergency brake. What the F did he/she think that was going to accomplish??
They made the mistake of not beating the shit out of the guy.
When you say "on a train" you have to be more specific.
If I were on a NJT train, than yes, I'd rather be murdered than arrive in New Jersey.
Everyone is super sensible about the emergency brake in the comment section of a blog. These people watched a man bleed out. I think whoever pulled the brake can be forgiven for panicking.
But as usual, you fucking idiots are the smartest guys in the room, which is why you spend all day commenting on blogs!
In the moment you can understand why other passengers would pulled the cord.
Too bad Bloomberg doesn't trust us to legally arm & defend ourselves; then the question would be moot.
If you're happy living caged like rats, rattle your chains.
Wow, brilliant idea- two dozen folks pull out all manner of guns and start firing, bullets ricocheting everywhere. Sounds like a lovely commute.
Wow, here's YOUR brilliant idea- two dozen folks slaughtered (see VA Tech, Luby's, etc_) because you and Bloomnuts ban almost all manner of legal gun ownership except for connected rich socialites and actors.
Just think, one legally armed citizen could have stopped it.
Typically the conductor is in the car approx. in the middle of the train. Thats usually a faster route for emergencies than the front where the motormen is.
I guess the emergency exits were also locked.
Would you be comfortable learning to use correct English punctuation and grammar?
Just about everything in this story is unsettling. Personally I never ride the subway after midnight. Seen too many things over the years when I did ride the subway at 2am. There's no protection once you are in that car.
You're fortunate to be able not to have to ride the subways during those hours. However, there are thousands of people who work at night and have no choice.
I never understood why just anyone has access to the emergency brake, especially if it's only supposed to be used in certain, very specific emergencies (someone caught in the doors or under the train). I would consider someone being stabbed to death an emergency, wouldn't you? If the ramifications of pulling the cord (train stuck between tunnels) are just going to make most emergencies worse, then the cords shouldn't be there.
I'm also not surprised that people panicked if the emergency doors were also locked. Pulling the cord probably seemed like the only option for a few people.
yeah i don't get it either. i always thought that it would be a surefire way for somebody to get raped or something (granted said rapist had an escape plan or isn't thinking about that).
the problem is that on the older trains you cant move from car to car (doors being locked) and there's no intercom to communicate with the conductor. pulling the chord was probably the only way to get the correct amount of attention.
You get attention, yes, but you stall the train. This incident shows up some problems with the emergency systems.
I do think there are devices in the cars that you can speak into in an emergency. As far as anyone being on the other end, listening, who knows! We are talking about the MTA.
As pastaboy said, there are no intercoms on the R68 car with which to notify the Conductor of an emergency. However, were they not in the first car? They could have notified the Operator without pulling the e-brake.
They did the right thing, but if this guy had a gun, i guarantee, things could have been worse.
Locking the doors is the right choice.
You guys are fearing the worst or the unknown.
Fact, he wanted a seat. He killed the guy who took his seat. He is happy. No more killings needed.
Fact 2. The doors are closed. He didn't get to his destination yet. The train didn't get past his destination. He is happy. No additional killing needed.
You have to think like the murderer.
"Fact, he wanted a seat. He killed the guy who took his seat. He is happy. No more killings needed."
Go back and read the updates. (a) the A-hole demanded the seat next to the victim when there were DOZENS of empty seats in the train.
(b) The victim didn't "take" the killer's seat.
If the murderer finds out who caused the doors to be locked, then
that good guy is in danger.
Who can think about murder or the right thing to do when that American Apparel girl is just staring at me???
Soooooooooooo much better than all those damn Bloomberg ads.
did we really expect them to protect riders?
even if a passenger dies in an incident, after the fact, they'll still neglect riders. it's an us vs. them mentality and us don't matter.
While it seems obvious not to pull the cord between stations in this case here's a scenario: you witness this happen, the train is in the station, and the doors close and the conductor announces the next stop. Do you pull the cord to keep the train from moving on so you can get the conductor and get medical help there right away, or let the train move and try to alert the conductor while the train is in motion? Which results in help arriving sooner?
If the train is in the station, definitely pull the cord to keep it from moving. It's when it's in the tunnel between stations that it's a bad idea. You only delay being able to get help, which is going to reach you quickest if you're in a station.
Okay, now I'm repeatedly hitting refresh to see the American Apparel ads everyone's referencing.
An unfortunate experience for the riders trapped inside but I would hope they would lock a violent murderer in even if it meant other passengers were in there with him. Better he stay in there than run out of the station into even more densely populated areas to do greater damage.
Unless this happened in the first car (where the motorman is) why didn't someone run into the next car looking for help?
I thought of this when I first heard about the murder - how terrifying for the passengers. I hope they're somewhat relieved their suffering led to Sanchez being caught. If the doors opened as usual, he might've been lost.
Fuck the MTA-they protect their own asses first-fuck the ridership
Over the summer I was on the 6 when a fight broke out. They locked the train until the cops came. Dude went nuts when he couldn't get out, started throwing punches at the people around him. The car was about half full. I shudder to think what would've happened if he had a knife.
if i had 2 uzis and i was covered in antikiller suit, i would feel kind of ok.
Anyone remember Colin Ferguson? He killed six and wounded nineteen when he opened fire on a LIRR train. It wasn't the police or the conductor/operator but the passengers that eventually stopped him. It took twenty five people getting shot for those folks to stand up to the lunatic, but they did eventually because there was no other option. This situation reminds me a lot of that slaughter.
Both events (this and the LIRR Massacre) are perfect examples to show that the state-run safety is a very nice illusion, but should not and can not be counted on. There are times that they cannot get to you, do not know of the crime being committed, or they just might not be around. If you want to be safe and not freeze up when someone pulls a weapon or threatens you, you need to learn how to defend yourself. I've always been a bit self-reliant, but, again, if you depend on cops to keep you safe then you're only safe when standing next to one.
Take a martial arts course with weapons defense, learn how to break an arm and how to defend against a swinging club. If you want to truly be safe, learn how to save yourself.
Would You Be Comfortable Locked On A Train With A Murderer?
Tuesday Nights at 8:00 PM ,on CBS! Check Your Local Listings!
I'd like to volunteer as a contestant.
does it have to be the D train?
could it be the uptown 6?
Are you kidding? We're locked in trains with murderers, rapists, bankers, and lawyers, everytime the train is in motion. Gimme a break.
It would make a good suspense movie on "huit clos"
So let me get this straight. This guy stabs someone to death over a seat. Someone pulls the emergency cord the train stops and then what? Dude with knife just chills next to the dead guy while everyone else is all huddled on the other end of the train. Couldn't a couple of guys stepped up and beat the piss out of this guy?
Obviously they couldn't. But if someone was legally armed in that train...