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It is not a good week for businesses ending in "&H" — first the H&H Bagel owner was indicted on tax fraud, and now word is getting out that the Hasidic-run B&H Photo Video is being sued to the tune of $8 million in a gender bias discrimination lawsuit. According to the NY Times, the two unrelated cases were announced just 30 minutes apart yesterday.
In the B&H lawsuit, filed at the State Supreme Court in the Bronx, four women (one of them a current employee, the others former employees) charged that they were denied sales positions because of their gender. They also stated that it is common practice for the store to do so. The lead plaintiff, cashier Nakisha Cushnie, says when she showed interest in a sales position, she was told, “I couldn't because I'm a woman. That simple. That's it." There are reportedly no saleswomen at B&H, and their employee magazine contains only photos of men.
Her lawyer added, "This is not a situation where women are relegated to back-of-the-bus status. This is a situation where women weren't allowed to ride on the bus." The company has released a statement saying, “B & H has a policy of not discriminating against employees or applicants, which we strictly follow. We have just found out about these allegations and we take them very seriously and will investigate." In April the store paid $4M when Hispanic warehouse workers charged they were denied promotions.
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These women are suprised to be treated this way from that community? Really?
Now that I think about it, all the years I've been going to B&H, I've never come across a sales-woman.
I recently applied for a corporate B&H position. Most of the managers/supervisors are women. The women there probably make more than the men.
I think you are confusing B&H with H&M.
Rosanna Rosanna Danna...is that you?
JUST gender bias? their hiring policies are obviously slanted towards a certain group...
H&M is next!
adorama near union square is hasidic-run too, what's up with that?
also, no female sales-staff to my knowledge.
I haven't seen a female sales person in Adorama either. Plus they are closed way too often.
They should be investigated for consumer fraud, they tend to mark their prices based on the customer.
As a long-time customer of B&H, I have to say that you're either confusing B&H with J&R, or you don't know what you're talking about. B&H has its prices clearly posted throughout the store and online. I've also found that their prices are consistent between the web and the store. In 10+ years of shopping there, amassing to thousands of dollars in purchases, I've never had a problem at B&H. Ever.
At J&R, on the other hand, I've had them play games just about every time I've shopped there. Their advertised sale prices routinely aren't marked in the store. Based on a series of negative experiences at J&R, I've made a point of buying things elsewhere (usually at B&H). If I'm in a bind and have to buy something at J&R, I make a point of having a time- and date-stamped printout of their online pricing with me to prove that they have a "sale" price in effect.
Nope, if you pay cash then they give you a different price. They gave an Israeli acquaintance of my a BIG discount.
You're willing to accuse a store of consumer fraud based on a single incident? Really?!? By saying that a store "tends" to do something, you imply that there's a pattern or practice of behavior. Sorry, one incident doesn't form a tendency to do something.
Besides, you can't even keep straight whether your friend got a discount for paying cash or "based on the customer," which you imply to mean Israeli versus non-Israeli. It sounds like you have an issue with Jews, or at least Hasidim. And no, I'm not Jewish.
I'd be curious to know what your friend bought and when (s)he made the purchase (i.e. how many years ago).
There are multiple reasons why (s)he may have received a discount. B&H sells gray market and demo items for less, but they clearly identify those products as such. Additionally, if the store is trying to clear out of a product, you can sometimes pick up new, unused products that they'll sold as used items in "10" condition (i.e., new, in the box, but without the manufacturer's warranty) and get one hell of a deal.
The bottom line is, the prices that B&H advertises are among the best out there, they honor their advertised prices in the store and, unless you're buying equipment from the Used department, you know you'll get the product as it was packaged by the manufacturer (i.e., with all the bits and bobbles it's supposed to include). Where's the fraud that you're so quick to accuse them of?!?
Nice try, liar. There is NO discount for cash. You must be thinking of another store, or talking about something that happened in the 20th century. I used to work at B&H and NOBODY (except employees) gets a discount. Israeli, Jewish or otherwise.
We once had a guy make a $55,000 purchase of cameras, lenses, and memory cards. The order took 2 days to complete, It was all being shipped to an African country and he paid in cash. The shipping charge alone was $5,000. He received $200 off of his entire order, and only because of one bulk purchase. If you buy a lens or camera that's in a damaged box, you might get a $15 discount. That's the only discount you'll get find at B&H, because the prices are already the lowest in the industry.
J&R employees work on commission, that's why they can give discounts. B&H doesn't pay commission, just higher wages, better benefits.
Can't stand hasidic fundamentalism but give me a break, why would you work there then? You know they have religious beliefs, don't fuckin work there whiner.
Of course, because if religious fundamentalists want to set up their own little fifedoms, what business is it of ours? Certainly no one should infiltrate them and attempt to get them to follow the law of the land.
Equal Employment Opportunity, if they don't want to hire competent women sales persons then they should leave the county.
"Religious freedom" does not trump gender equality.
Huh? You should take a course in logic: causality, correlation, equivalency arguments. That makes no sense. Of course, ad hominem's usually don't.
someone is impressed with himself.
That's funny. I knew exactly what Shovel meant. More than that, I agree.
Just meant that religious liberty for everyone -- atheists, believers, agnostics, whomever -- gives us the basis to fight inequality, injustice, etc. We can say and believe and fight for what we want because of that liberty. So it doesn't trump gender equality, it permits it.
Their religious beliefs don't trump state and federal labor laws and no woman should feel that she need not apply because of them.
separation of church and state was actually created to protect religious beliefs and practices from government, not the other way around.
not that i think that's the way it should be.
This discussion about religious freedom is irrelevant. Nobody is going to Hasidic Synagogues and forcing them to allow women to pray with men. THAT's a breach of religious freedom.
Owning a business is not a religious act, and therefore, no matter what your religion says about gender equality, if you own a business in the U.S. you have to play by our rules, i.e. you cannot discriminate based on gender.
I was thinking the same thing this morning, I've spent thousands in that store over the years and not once was helped by a woman, unless she was a cashier.
Nakisha. Is that a German name?
No. It's a derivative of Keisha. The 'back of the bus' line is possibly even more tiredly obvious than at first glance.
here's how they get around it.
let them apply and not hire them.
there, we didn't break any laws, you've applied and we said no thanks.
HR will show a stack of applications from blacks, whites, asians, hispanics to show them letting everyone apply for a job. (but few get hired)
That's likely, yes.
But is that not the "law" of the land: the NFL, any writing staff job in Hollywood (read:recent stats by WGA on this), et al.
It's B&H people! Welcome to NYC newbies! It's only been, what five years, since letting non-hasids to even touch money.
This is pretty funny - yesterday I saw them training a chick at one of the counters.
Blame the dress code. It's really simple- all the ladies have to do is grow beards and long sidelocks and they can hit the salesfloor!
my sister works for a company run by hasids.. all the wives work in billing and arnt allowed to talk to men.. needless to say, their customer service sux and drives my sister, who is in sales, BaNanAs, because she always has to do their job too.
I audited a firm in the diamond district once. I can see the women in the office go bonkers at their solitary employment. they can't talk to any men, they only talk to themselves and the radio. (that's if you can get any reception in a vault)
I used to work on the sales floor for B&H. It's a very rigid environment dominated by very religious jews. However, I was hired after a single interview and offered a very good starting salary. I'm not jewish, in fact I'm openly gay. I know several women that have been hired there with ease and have since been promoted to higher positions. None of them were jewish either. The one thing we all were, however, was college educated in photography.
"JUST gender bias? their hiring policies are obviously slanted towards a certain group..."
Here's an idea, why don't you put on a yarmulke and apply for a job at KFC on 145th st? Let us know how that works out.
Sorry, computer hiccup - that reply was not to you but to hotstepper's comment #4.
Women being treated like THIS? In a Hasidic environment? That's weird.
Yesterday, I wrote a tweet about how I wasn't going to buy a new camera lens at B&H because of this lawsuit, and I just found this in my inbox:
The Director of Corporate Communications seriously has nothing better to do right now than to go to my website, look up my email address and write me a creepy email?
creepy but not surprising
Why not? You have nothing better to do that tweet about where you're going to buy a new camera lens.
Yeah, me and my 12 followers are definitely going to have an impact on their business. Better fire off a creepy reply AGAIN:
I like the "she was asking for it, dressed like that" sort of vibe this one has.
Not to get way off topic, but jeez, get over yourself. You twittered and posted shit on a website, in the public domain, dumbass. It's not like the guy hired a snoop to track you down and threaten you.
Are you one of those idiots who posts naked pics of yourself on Myspace and then gets pissed 'cause no one hires you for a job?
Years ago I was working for a company that had a B&H account, so I went with the intention of buying a specific model of $3000 camera. No one would help me (I'm a woman, and had visible tattoos so who knows if that had anything to do with it). I was blatantly ignored for a half hour, and then I left and went straight to J&R and was in the store a total of maybe 15 minutes before I'd paid for the camera I needed. The same employer had me bring another piece of equipment for repair, and the guy behind the counter actually scolded me?!
I have not gone back to B&H.
You're a douche; Henry wrote you a professional response and you lashed out at him. He happens to be right by the way - this is an accusation and last time I checked Obama/Holder hadn't changed the whole innocent until proven guilty thing either.
That being said, they may be owned, managed, and heavily staffed by Hasids, but by no means are they the only people employed there. That and they're still the best source at the best price on most goods.
How is that creepy, you fuckin pussy
How about responding to those of us who called you out for insinuating that it's OK for B&H to run their business according to their religious beliefs (which is illegal)?
I have no response and no interest in thinking of one.
I don't see the problem.
OK, so who else should be above the law?
It is not a good week for businesses ending in "&H" = hilarious!
The B&H worth visiting in this town is B&H Deli on 2nd and St Marks.
I prefer to shop at businesses that don't include the religious bullshit.
Wait 'til they find out what 'B&H' stands for...
Bitches & Ho's?
Beards & Hats?
Actually it's the first initials of the owner and his wife. Really not exciting.
I really like B&H. I think its a great store. But I think they are gonna go down for this one. As others have said I've never seen any female sales staff. Sometimes just that fact doesn't mean the place is engaged in discrimination, maybe women applicants just aren't up to snuff, or maybe there aren't so many women applicants. But a place as famous as B&H is, must at least attract some decent women who want to work in sales. So I dunno I think they are denying women here. B&H already got in trouble and had to settle for discriminating against Hispanics.
http://gothamist.com/2007/10/17/bh_settles_disc.php
They're fools. The last time I went into a computer store, there was this gorgeous blonde working sales. She knew her stuff and could have sold me a whole new system if she wanted to, even though I only needed a replacement keyboard.
What are you really saying?
Really a blonde girl? I never saw one!
As a former B&H employee, I am not surprised to see this. The sales guys would occasionally stand around and talk about it, wondering when it would happen, but here are some FACTS you won't find in the articles above:
B&H DOES have female sales associates, they don't work in the store, they're either in the corporate office (in NYC) or on the road as "Pro-User" saleswomen (schools, businesses, etc.) In the corporate office, the women are separated from the men. In the store, female cashiers work next to male cashiers. Women also occupy jobs in the Event Space which is in the store.
To be a salesperson at B&H you HAVE to have knowledge! Anyone can't just walk in off the street and expect to get a job selling a $5,000 digital camera or a $2,000 television. This isn't Best Buy or Target. Could she find the correct infrared filter that will work with a specific digital camera? Could she explain ALL of the options for macro photography? Could she find the best camera/lens combination for someone buying their 1st digital camera? Does she know what a prime lens is? I doubt it. Experience is required, whether it's through education or previous jobs. If these cashiers had the experience, they would be hired for the job.
The majority of the men behind the SLR sales counter or in the lighting department are actual photographers, with decades of real-world experience. And they aren't all Jewish either. Some have photographed runway shows in Paris & Milan, others have tattoos and shoot nude fetish photography (seriously), another one was a photographer at the World Series as well as the Yankees regular season. The guys working in the computer department can take apart your computers and put them back together, probably blindfolded. The guys selling televisions know every important detail to help you decide between your first LCD or Plasma tv.
-The owners of Adorama and B&H are related but reportedly not friendly with one another.
-The store has over $3 Billion in sales per year. Recently they had a $300+ million profit in one year. That's more than Wal-Mart and B&H is only 1 store.
-A lot of people come in the store just to ask questions and get advice, without even buying anything. One Sunday in 2008, over 11,000 people came through the store.
Regardless of what happens with this lawsuit, they have the best prices and most informed sales people.
you're right MrNikon - there couldn't POSSIBLY be any woman who has "decades of real world knowledge" of photography, or knows computers or the intricacies of plasma TVs.
I guess "theredheadsaid" has some issues seeing or reading
Reread my post, especially the part that says "ANYONE can't just walk off the street". I never said women can't do the job. I know they can. As a photographer, I know that there are women probably more capable then myself.
However, a girl that was a cashier for one year, with zero college education, and little electronics & camera background is NOT qualified to be a salesperson at "The Professional's Source", B&H. Do you know what it's like going into Adorama and dealing with the occasional salesperson that doesn't have a clue what you're talking about because he happens to NOT be a photographer? It's a pain in the ass and it
takes a lot more time than it should.
It's obvious, she's only after the MONEY. Why else is she suing for $7 million? Is that what a $30,000 - $50,000 a year job is worth? Frankly, I don't even know why she would want to be in sales except for the better wages and bonuses, it's a total SHIT job. Your personnel manager is only concerned with how many warranties you sell, not the $4 - $5 million in cameras, lenses and accessories you sell each year.
In fact women DO work in sales for B&H. They just don't work in the retail store, they work out of 440, the corporate office.
I worked at B&H for two and a half years, and saw quite a few eye-opening things. As mentioned above, there are indeed female employees working both at the store and at building 440, where their corporate office is. Near as I could tell, there were no saleswomen on the floor. During employee training, somebody brought this up, to which the B&H lawyer (he was there for the nandatory sexual harrasment part of the training) mentioned that B&H would hire saleswomen for the floor, if only a competent one would apply (to which most everyone in the room burst out laughing.) The only women I saw in the store were cashiers (who are literally walled off, to prevent contact with the men) or the cleaning ladies.
I like B&H, and I like the majority of the people I worked with, but some of its employees are still living in the stone age. I've seen a ridiculous amount of rascist, anti-Obama emails shared through the company email system; I've seen them ignore or stare down muslim shoppers (one of my managers called a muslim couple "animals on two legs,") and seriously...if you're a lady shopper, a lot of the employees will treat you like you have no clue how to operate a camera. It's true that there are a lot of well educated photographers working in the store, but there are also a lot of people who work there who have literally no idea what they're doing. This kind of conduct would get employees in any other company fired, but B&H turns a blind eye to it.
There are a lot of truly talented people who work behind the counter, and I'm glad I was one of them. They treated me (a gentile, no less) with respect, paid me a fantastic wage and gave me pretty decent benefits. I also learned more about photography working there than I did during my years in college. B&H is still one of the best stores to buy pro gear at. It's just unfortunate that the people who perpetuate this kind of behavior aren't punished.
Stop the presses everybody. Viane Delgado has not yet weighed in on this.
Right, she's been there for one whole year, she should be able to get any job she wants.
I'm sure in one year she's racked up enough expecience to talk knowledgeably and answer questions from customers.
One thing that pisses me off about that place is that its never open on Friday nights or Saturdays....even the WEBSITE is like that.
I agree with @8: if you know the place is a hasidic fundamentalist establishment and you're a woman why would you want to work there in the first place, other than to create the ability to potentially collect on a lawsuit?
If you are a great pork chef would it make any sense to apply for a job cooking for the islamic clergy?
I have to believe that either all these women were exceptionally slow as they did not realize that B&H is a hasidic establishment 10 seconds after entering the store (is there anyone in NYC that does not know this?) or these women took the positions with the express intent of filing a lawsuit afterward, in which case this is simply extortion and should be prosecuted as such, although in keeping with talmudic law perhaps the women should simply be publicly stoned?
B&H is not a "hasidic establishment." It's a business, in the United States of America, and believe it or not is subject to our laws, not G-d's.
the blonde!
i bought something from her too,but when i had to pay she made me put the money thru a hole in a sheet.
Perhaps B&H has employed the psycho ex workers that were
at the insane photo store "47th Street Photo"?
I remember buying at "47th St" photo a large slide viewer a decade ago and asked for some string to tie my purchase
and was refused ,you would have thought that I had asked
to use the toilet as an uncut male unclean non Jew.
One should not go in any store and feel like you are being
minimized as a Human.
In any event I shop at B&H and know how to control some
salespeople attitude problem.
The cheaper price will always bring them in.
I have been a customer of theirs for many years and have also considered their employment a few times, being a gearhead type. One of the first things that went through my head all those years ago (>10 yrs) was whether they would hire gentile folks. Of course to abide by US law, they would have to but I still wondered how far the bias extended. I also considered employment at Adorama and while they seemed to hire more gentile salespeople, their operation was and is of a much smaller magnitude.
We should wait for more facts to present themselves before making wild accusations and assumptions about these women. How are we to know their ulterior motives? The supposition that they applied for employment with the premeditation of bringing a lawsuit is entirely unfounded. However, the fact that a lawsuit has been brought in the first place is perhaps not entirely surprising either, given their previous religion and gender bias, however veiled.
I'm a middle aged woman with a kid and for her birthday last year I took my daughter to NYC to eat lunch and then go to B & H for to buy a camera. The salesman was NOT Hasidic, he was a middle aged Egyptian guy. He treated us well- I was only buying a $250 camera but he showed us over a dozen different models and let my kid handle each one of them, and look at the manuals, too. There was a long line, but this guy had the patience of a saint with us- it was completely worth the trip to NYC! She still loves her camera! Also, I sent a note to the company after, commenting on the great customer service and the price(I checked online after- the price was the cheapest around by $7)and that Posner guy sent me a note back, too- and I could tell that he had read my letter by his response- it wasn't some canned letter.
I think that is pretty incredible service. We went back this year and bought her a video camera and again, we had excellent service- she spent over an hour deciding and ended up with a $700 camera that she loves. I'll be back next year to buy her another camera- this time an SLR- she's ready!