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Two Upper East Side restaurants refuse to deliver uptown to East Harlem, but they willingly schlep longer distances downtown to service a more affluent and more white neighborhood. An investigation by the Post reveals that both Chinese Mirch on Second Avenue between 94th and 95th streets and One Fish Two Fish on Madison Avenue and 97th Street declined to deliver to addresses located 15 blocks to the north, but readily fulfilled orders 20 blocks to the south — a delivery discrepancy that "smacks of racism," according to state Sen. Bill Perkins (D-Harlem). "The difference between north and south is black and white," he said.
The owner of Chinese Mirch declined to comment, but a manager at One Fish Two Fish denied all charges of bias. "We are like an urban Cheers," said the manager, who claimed that the eatery services a 10-block radius in all directions — though it had just delivered food to an address 20 blocks away in the wealthy Upper East Side. "We cater to an African-American and Hispanic clientele. We are a multicultural restaurant. We do not discriminate according to areas."
But 42-year-old Brian Connolly, who lives just eight blocks north of One Fish Two Fish, said the eatery won't delivery to his apartment at Third Avenue and 105th Street. "It's just frustrating," he said. "I'm not that far away from them, and I was shocked that they wouldn't deliver. Generally, people in the area told that restaurants would not deliver above 96th Street."
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Of course it's racist to fear being robbed/mugged in what is considered to be a "rough neighborhood" - in fact, there are no documented cases of robberies in East Harlem - this is simply a racist myth that's been perpetrated throughout the decades.
The inverse relationship is that because they don't deliver up there, they don't get robbed and/or beaten/murdered.
It's not racism, but a health issue. It's allergic reactions to hot lead.
Is either restaurant getting federal subsidies that require owners of either restaurant to deliver to areas they don't want to? If they don't want to deliver to high crime areas who is to say they can't deny service?
Enough of this racism crap already. Clean up the area and then maybe law abiding citizens will provide services that the residents in the area so desire. Open up your own damn Chinese restaurant in the area and see how your delivery men feel about delivering to the projects.
again with this? you still can get your food just go to the restaurant, order your food, walk back home. It would be good exercise.
I wonder do these places charge a delivery fee, would that change anything?
Most Chinese restaurants don't charge a delivery fee if the purchase price is over a certain amount (usually very small). I'm amazed that there are some heartless people who order Chinese food in the middle of hurricane sized rainstorms or in the depths of winter when it's almost blizzard conditions outside. It's criminal and Felix the Cat should worry more about those situations than Canadian geese around JFK.
Asshole, they won't deliver uptown but will deliver in a hurricane? What hurricane did we have in NYC. You really are an idiot. Gassing geese for no reason and not only in JFK but in neighborhood parks was cruel and didn't solve anything. What a racist nasty man you really are. You are just filled with hate. And those uptown customers should just boycott these restaurants instead of trying to force them to deliver to their blocks.
I'm sure the restaurant owners would more than happy if those that live "uptown" don't patronize their restaurants.
Actually they would lose lots of money if people of color boycott their restaurant.
Felix, do you ever read your comments before you hit the submit button?
felix,
you are kind man, i would like to date you.. would you like to go on date with me?
I should add, I think then Councilman John Liu has something to say. something about chinese delivery food men being murdered in this city.
I guarantee these restaurants at one time did deliver to Harlem and only stopped after their delivery men were robbed and beaten. I used to know kids who would order chinese/pizza just to jump the delivery man. The food was considered an extra.
you're probably right, I've often wonder why the man behind the counter has a nice shiner.
racism? Come on, owners have the right to deliver wherever they want, thats call a private business, you sell what you want (as long as it is legal) and at the price you want...
So you would be ok if the owner of the business didn't want to serve you because of your gender, race, age, orientation, disability, appearance etc? A business is part of society and should treat all people with respect and dignity. This is why corporations are evil because they forgot about ethics and it is all about their bottom lines and why society as a whole suffers.
No, I would *UNDERSTAND* if I lived in a dangerous neighborhood and no one wanted to risk their neck just to bring me $15 of Chinese food. If I had a problem with this, I would speak out to people in my neighborhood--especially teenagers--and tell them to stop messing things up for the rest of us with their thuggish behavior.
I was replying to the comment "owners have the right to deliver wherever they want, thats call a private business, you sell what you want (as long as it is legal) and at the price you want...". There is a limit to what a private business can do.
"There is a limit to what a private business can do."
Yeah, now that Premier Øgabe is taking over the economy.
I'll tell you what - you can force businesses to deliver to every high crime neighborhood when you GET THE F*ck off of our second amendment right to defend ourselves so we can shoot the living crap out of every criminal who attacks us.
PS - I live near one-fish-two-fish - the clientele is at least half african-american and I am sure THEY would KICK YOUR STUPID watermelon *ass (green on the inside, red on the outside) if you forced that restaurant out of business with your demands that they endanger their delivery staff.
It's not that the owner doesn't WANT to serve these people. They're in business to make money and I'm sure would gladly take all the customers they can get. It's just that they've learned through experience that it's not good business practice to deliver to these areas because their delivery guys keep getting robbed.
i think we should oust the racists in charge of these eateries and install government employees (who obviously are impervious to such racism) in their place. then the state congress could set specific laws making sure everyone has access to the specific food they want when they want it. part of this would be setting strict distances that the restaurants are required to deliver within, but we could also spread all the restaurants evenly around the city so some neighborhoods don't have more than others. and while we're at it, we should really introduce some subsidies and incentives to make sure that this food is affordable for all.
Excellent idea! :):):)
Look at the homicide map http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map and tell me with a straight face you aren't more likely to be a homicide victim above 96th street.
Also, poor people don't tip.
"Also, poor people don't tip."
Wrong. The best tippers are people who do or did work for tips, the one's that do, in most cases, are not rich. The ones that did may be better off but not necessarily rich.
Blacks are notoriously bad tippers.
Just don't call them Smurfs.
http://www.nypress.com/article-5727-smurf-is-a-racial-slur.html
European tourists are bad tippers. fucking cheapskates
I see you have the experience of a traveler that never left the block he was born on. Europeans don't normally tip because in Europe the gratuity is included in the final tab. Duh? It's called cultural differences.
But then again you are mostly into geese and carriage horses, both not big tippers.
Are you a little hungry for Chinese food but they wont deliver to your mother's basement apartment?
Actually i have been to Europe many times and the gratuity isn't included in the bill. What is obvious is your constant hostility toward people who fight or speak against animal cruelty. Whenever you disagree with my comment you feel the need to mention the poor carriage horses and the slaughtered geese. Your heart is so black that you spew hatred nonstop. Even if you disagree with the charges of racism doesn't mean you have to scapegoat other species. Stop being an asshole, really
@Mr. Mel: The best tippers are people who do or did work for tips, the one's that do, in most cases, are not rich.
Citation needed.
CLASS IS DIFFERENT THAN RACE. WHAT THE FUCK DON'T THESE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND.
POOR PEOPLE IS DIFFERENT THAN BLACK PEOPLE.
SOMETIMES IT IS THE SAME BUT IT HAS TO DO WITH CLASS AND PEOPLE NOT TIPPING, PEOPLE GETTING ROBBED, ETC.
IDIOTS.
The shouting and poor grammar do not help your cause.
It's not a cause, you fucking pig.
Bill Perkins has been accused of privately uttering anti-Semitic statements and his whole 'angry' persona and career, not unlike Charles Barron's, ironically focuses on calling everyone else racist.
"But 42-year-old Brian Connolly, who lives just eight blocks north of One Fish Two Fish, said the eatery won't delivery to his apartment at Third Avenue and 105th Street. "It's just frustrating," he said. "I'm not that far away from them, and I was shocked that they wouldn't deliver. Generally, people in the area told that restaurants would not deliver above 96th Street."
Sorry dude, but even the waaaaaaaahhmbulance doesn't go north of 96th.
That's kind of odd considering that One Fish Two Fish is above 96th street itself.
i'm reasonably sure that if the chinese restaurant refused to deliver to a dangerous white neighborhood there would not be a furor
We're talkin' West Village...
I think you meant to say "unreasonably presumptuous" instead of "reasonably sure."
Terrible problems in the world.
Just so sad as to make one cry.
How are we gonna beat the Russians?.
C'mon Brian, if you are "not that far away", get off your lazy ass and walk there.
He wont walk there because he's afraid of getting mugged.
Racism? More like propaganda.
Food establishments have every right to consider the safety of their delivery persons first, far above the cries and whining of some hypersensitive customer screaming about racism.
This reminds me of the story years ago when livery cab drivers refused to pick up black men. Their reasoning was understandable: 100% of livery cab murders that year were committed by black males.
What a load of shit!
Maybe these people complaining should try working a few weeks on the late night delivery shift in East Harlem and see how they like it.
I used to live up in that neighborhood, and with VERY few exceptions the people were dirty, poor, uneducated, and extremely proud of those accomplishments.
I saw more petty crime such as robbing deliverymen, than I care to remember.
calling this racist is like calling it racist to not take vacations in iraq.
it's not racism: the odds of being mugged downtown is simply far less than in east harlem, a factual observation which is easily proven by checking uniform crime report's public records..something which any first semester criminal justice undergraduate student can confirm in under an hour.
While being the victim of a violent crime, the offender's race is of little concern. when facing an armed assailant the only color you care about is the color street beneath your feet: you're concerned that it remains black and not turn blood red.
F*ck those ghetto hood rats - as if supporting them through our hard earned tax dollars isn't enough. BTW is it racism when you have bullet-proof windows only in those fast food joints in the 'hooood....?
hey remember that delivery man who was murdered for money to buy air jordans?
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/03/nyregion/03delivery.html
so, if i didn't want to live/work in a dangerous neighborhood, that's racism???
wow, i better move into a dangerous neighborhood just so that people know i'm not a racist.
if a certain race really wants to get together and work on unity, how about starting off with "being nice" to others? using guilt is such a godless thing to do. oh, and i hear that a lot of these chinese restaurant workers have really bad episodes with many black and hispanic customers. some of them resulted in death.
lastly, please clean up east harlem. the rent is still cheap there but the crime is still high. i'd move there in a heartbeat if the crime is as low as places lower than 95th street--and so would most people.
If I was delivering food on a bike late into the night in many places in New York, I'd be fearful. Harlem to boot? Its not the owner's fault. What can he/she do if the delivery guy takes his own safety into his own hands? Can't really fire a guy for that. Those guys work their buts off for peanuts. Now you're gonna force them to ride up into Harlem at night? Get real. Drop the cliche'd out racism card. I wouldn't send a friend to Iraq. That doesn't mean I don't like Iraqis. It means I'm aware there is a war there. That's it. same thing.
black people are kinda running out of causes huh? Cant get chinese food to your bullet-riddled ghetto and it's racism... man you guys had no problem smashing the civil right's of gay folks in california, but if you cant get some sweet and sour pork delivered to you while you smoke blunts at your crib its a civil rights thing again?
I believe East Harlem is predominantly Hispanic. I had two guys on my team that came from East Harlem and when I dropped them off after a game it was mostly Hispanics I saw in the hood, not blacks.
Hence Spanish Harlem.
Surely the delivery issue is one of crime, not racism, but I don't think that's the case for most here making that point.
I worked at Metropolitan hospital in 1988 and we were warned to be careful if we cashed our check at the check cashing places on Second Ave.
It's much safer now but like a poster above mentioned the Restaurant has it's reasons not to deliver north of 96th.
There was a great burger truck parked on the First Ave side back then.
The Chinese restaurant industry is very competitive. If my competitor did not deliver to an area, my restaurant would certainly move in on the territory - unless it was bad business. As a business person, my primary color bias is for green as in dollars. But if my delivery people are getting mugged and I'm losing food, then that's bad business.
I'm sure if my competitor thought they could serve an area and not pay for hospital/funeral services and lose product, then they would do so and try to drive me out of business.
Elaine Benes? YOU ON OUR LIST! He name names!
Stop whining and playing the victim, accusing people of racism.
The New York City Human Rights Law prohibits a public accommodation, like a restaurant, from discriminating against a customer based upon their race, color, national origin and a variety of other protected classes.
and the law currently says gay marriage is illegal. most laws are good. some need to be updated. don't think that laws are fixed in stone, AT ALL--people make laws, and we can change some outdated laws for good.
Why can't a restaurant discriminate against crime-heavy neighborhoods? Are they legally required to put their delivery people in danger?
It's utterly nuts to think this is a problem with race. How would the Chinese restaurant know who's calling in the area they do serve. Do they ask them what race they are when they call in the order? NO! The area that they don't want to deliver to is because it is a high crime area. That is the reason. And where in the New York City Human Rights Law does it state about wherever a person might live, that individual is entitled to Chinese food delivery?
Yes, and free shrimp fried rice too. It's in the constitution.
why not call the whaaaaambulence and see if they can pickup your orange chicken,eggrolls,chefs special,#12,#33 and pork fried rice for you..................................fatty
They don't deliver up there for the same reason cabbies don't stop for some ppl. Whenever you hear a story about a cabbie that was murdered or a delivery guy robbed or murdered, you have your answer.
If allegations of "racism" is going to be conveniently used against a business that:
1)does not know the race of the customer attempting to place the order
2)area they refuse to provide delivery service to has a history of high crime rate
3)it's money to be made! why wouldn't a business delivery to an area unless their losing money rather than profiting!?
If anything I think both business' should blame their accusers of "reckless endangerment!" Seriously, the race card is being used way too conveniently these days....
Did it ever occur to the East Harlemites that there is a steep hill in the East 90s going north?
For bike delivery men, it is an easier trip from E.86th to E. 60th than from E.86th to E.100th, because it's less steep.
there's a public accommodation argument to be made here, but is a refusal of delivery constitute a denial of service? people are not being excluded from entering the restaurant, just not being able to use one service. is trader joe's racist for not delivering to the bronx (for whatever reason that may be)?
let's also remember that we have precisely one anecdote from one guy as evidence for this claim, so this may even be MORE of a non-issue than we realize
Is it racist to not want food from your own neighborhood?
Also,
Nothing makes me feel better about my tax dollars than seeing the constant food deliveries to and livery rides to and from the city's housing projects.
Yeah God forbid poor people eat.
Over priced delivery food with my money, yes.
Try cooking if you're so poor.
Exactly - I can eat for a week and a half on $25 worth of groceries. That same amount in food delivery would last a day. If they want to get out of the projects, they should make better choices with their cash.
That's assuming they want to get out of their high-crime, run-down neighborhoods and into a better life.
I'm willing to bet that take-out prices in East Harlem are fairly competitive with home cooked meals, unless you're going rice and soy sauce or cooking for a family or something.
The grocery stores are expensive, shitty, few and far between and close early. Bodegas are pretty much just chips and twinkies.
I'm not going to say that cooking isn't more cost-efficient (and healthier), but it's also significantly more of a pain in the ass to get together a meal in East Harlem than it is, say, forty blocks south.
But mostly it's kind of pathetic to bitch about poor people's eating habits. Start a volunteer cooking education program if you're so hurt to see people using "your" money in a way you don't approve.
There are no supermarkets in Harlem or Spanish Harlem. There is definitely not a huge 24 hour Pathmark on 125th with its own parking, and subway and buses at the front door. Don't search the internet either, all the dots on the Google map are just propaganda.
I take it back they are forced to order in.
Which changes in no way how I feel.
Although I didn't realize that Pathmark is 24 hours, so thanks for that, even if it's possibly the worst grocery store I've ever been to.
you must live in the projects and be unemployed to even have the time to count the amount of cabs and deliverymen going in and out, i'm assuming by your comment...
Or I've lived across the street from them...
and if i was a business owner, i would not make my deliverymen go anywhere i felt that they would be unsafe. end of story. it has nothing to do with what race lives there. its a crime issue period.
East Harlem aint missing anything. One Fish, Two Fish tastes like hot ass. Terrible restaurant.
Rather be labeled a racist than possibly murdered by a bunch of thugs.
According to NYPD stats - there were 194 reported robberies year-to-date in the 23rd precinct (north of 96th) compared to 123 in the 19th (south of 96th). It is unclear how many were of food delivery people, but are 71 additional robberies in a whole precinct enough to deny service north of 96th?
Yes. Next question.
So I guess black and latino people don't live anywhere ouside of Harlem?
Unfortunately they do. Try Camden, Patterson, Cleveland, Columbus, Allentown, Bridgeport, Hartford, Philadelphia. East Saint Louis.. should I go on?
"A business is part of society and should treat all people with respect and dignity."
Felixthecat2, where is the respect and dignity for delivery persons working 12-13 hours a day through all kinds of weather for a few dollars an hour, supporting their families and only to be shot for $9 or for a pair of Air Jordan's ? I would dare you to make a delivery to a housing project in East Harlem or in the Bronx. I would bet you wouldn't let your dog wander alone in one of these projects; they wouldn't think twice about shooting a schnauzer for fun.
http://gothamist.com/2008/09/29/chinese_food_delivery_man_ambushed.php
http://gothamist.com/2004/02/16/murdering_for_sneakers.php
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/delivery-man-recuperating-after-wrench-attack-1.1576928
A miniature schnauzer / lapso apso mix none the less. They don't chase geese. Definitely not a dalmatian.
It is their employers and not the residents who are underpaying the staff. I also fight against employers abuse.
http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map According to this chart, so far in 2009, there has been a total of 10 homicides in the area most of us would call East Harlem. There are about 120,000 people living there. Albany, NY has about 93,000 people and thus far this year has had 9 murders. So, a city one would consider stereotypically much safer than a neighborhood like East Harlem, is in fact more dangerous. So who exactly is saying this issue of no delivery isn't being fanned by the flames of racism? You think maybe no one in all of Albany should deliver anything, anywhere, anytime? Hey, why not? Want take-out? Go get it yerself. drive to Canada if you have to.
Meanwhile, back in Manhattan, the area west of 6th Ave, from 27th to 42nd St has had about 4 murders thus far this year. So, maybe the take out places just cut back like 40% of deliveries to coincide with their murders in the area? I think not. Racism is racism any way you deliver it.
deliverymen are more afraid of getting beaten/mugged/hurled insults at (which i think is racism--i've heard many hispanics/blacks 'dissin' chinese restaurant staffs in my neighborhood). murders happen for various reasons. the fact is that these deliverymen are far more likely to be mugged/beaten/hurled insults at above 95th st than below.
of course there're good people who live there (probably such as yourself), but unless we weed out the low-lives in the area, playing the race card is...
...well, let's just say that ignorance is not a one way street.
I live on a shady tree-lined street of brownstones in a historically African-American neighborhood. Wonderful working class families live here and take a great deal of pride in their historic homes, block associations and green spaces. We have one low-life drug dealer on our block..and guess what?? He ain't Black!!!
All these stereotypes about various ethnic groups & areas being dangerous are lies people feed themselves to have an excuse to not interact with those groups. Its ignorant, and sad.
"I live on a shady tree-lined street of brownstones in a historically African-American neighborhood. Wonderful working class families live here and take a great deal of pride in their historic homes, block associations and green spaces. We have one low-life drug dealer on our block..and guess what?? He ain't Black!!!"
i'm not surprised at all if you think that's going to make me go, "you're lying... every drug dealer is black or hispanic!" in case you missed, i've stated that there're good people in every race. but if you are so naive to think that everyone in that race is good, you are also ignorant in another way.
your eyes will open once you have been a chinese deliveryman in a so-called 'shady' neighborhood'. and what defines a shady neighborhood? it's where there have been many many altercations/crimes/beatings/muggings/hurling insults/intimidations in a particular neighborhood. this is new york; new yorkers don't want to pre-judge a neighborhood like some weirdos in the kkk.
"All these stereotypes about various ethnic groups & areas being dangerous are lies people feed themselves to have an excuse to not interact with those groups. Its ignorant, and sad."
stereotypes? you mean even when bad things happen to good people on a daily basis? well, since you seem so insistant that everyone who's been wronged and wanting to take pre-cautions are "stereotyping", i hope that karma answers your statement above. because your statement is also, indeed, IGNORANT.
Have you ever been to Albany? There are some pretty shady neighborhoods there that I bet the local restaurants don't deliver to either.
Grandest R,
Abstracting statistics to a different crime (homicides vs. robberies) and an entire metropolitan area ( Albany vs. Spanish Harlem) is poor statistical analysis. So I corrected your analysis with the following:
I compared NYPD’s CompStat reports as of 11/8/2009 for the 23rd precinct (96 St to 116 St, about 20 blocks long) to the 19th precinct (59 St to 96 St, about 37 blocks long). So far in 2009, the 23rd precinct had 197 robberies and 174 felony assaults while the 19th precinct had 128 robberies and 61 felony assaults. The 23 precinct had 35% more robberies and 65% more felony assaults than the 19th precinct. If you take into consideration the 23rd precinct’s population of 117,743 and the 19th precinct’s population of 217,063 (84% larger), there are more robberies and felony assaults per capita in the smaller 23rd precinct.
Also crimes are probably under-reported by Chinese restaurant owners due to 1) language barriers and 2) the questionable citizenship status of the delivery people.
I did my homework and I don’t think it’s racism.
I guess the bullet proof glass in some of these take outs make them racist too cause they don't want to be in actual contact with the customers? If there is money to be made I highly doubt a business would turn away from that unless robberies have occured enough times that it becomes a risk. Don't muggers look for specifics in their potential targets? Matter of fact isn't that racism too then for the muggers to single out the Chinese delivery guy? Quit the crying of racism cause it is a two way street.
Everyone with any common NY sense knows that 96th is the unofficial, unwritten, unspoken cut-off. Why is that news? Are you a character just coming out from Disneyland?
what he searching see my site http://www.vimax.us
uh... do you really want me to go there? would you really like me to talk about watermelons, donkeys, or trailers??? hah
I could care less about Harlem-ites. Try living in Bed-Stuy....all we have is Dominos ickkkkk!!! I just vomitted in my mouth a little just thinking about it!!!