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The Health Department also says it's investigating the incident and noted, in a joint press release with the Department of Education, "The Health Department has trained all nurses to follow a protocol for confirming parental consent and reviewing each child's health screening information before vaccine is administered. These children have had no adverse effects and the Health Department does not expect any future adverse medical effects for these children, but we are working to determine how this misstep occurred, and we will develop additional safeguards to prevent similar instances in the future."
The city started its program to offer swine flu vaccines to all NYC public school students on Wednesday. Students were given parental consent forms and, if signed, were able to get the H1N1 vaccine from the school nurse. At this point, less than half of the parents have signed the form.
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Oooooooooooohhhhh nnnnnnooooooooo!
Oh wait, this just means two more kids that won't get an illness that might kill them. WTF?? The news makes it sound like they were exposed to HIV or something.
tolu.. seriously?! What happens if this vaccine - which was not even thoroughly tested and has received negative criticism from medical professionals, turns out to have serious side effects? Who knows what this vaccine will cause later.. There are NO synthesized drugs that do not come w/ a side effect of some sort.
I'm not even a parent but if I was and my kid was administered this drug without my consent i'd go fucking wild! Did you notice that less than half of the parents gave their consent? It's because this vaccine is practically experimental. The parents should sue the shit outta the dept of ed
It's a FLU VACCINE. It's a different version of the shot millions upon millions of people get every single year. It's not "experimental." Sue the Department of Ed? Why am I not remotely surprised that's your last sentence?
Thank you nikki-jo for stating it so eloquently. Of course the vaccine is experimental, nicemarmot! I have no problem with my children being administered all the thoroughly tested vaccines that will keep them from getting diseases that call kill and maim but this H1N1 has been deemed a mild virus. People are in a ridiculous state of panic. So much so that they rushed this vaccine to the market. If it were my child you better believe the DOE would be in trouble.
It's not experimental any more than the seasonal flu vaccine is experimental. Every year the vaccine is updated to protect against whatever strain is thought to be prevalent that year. The H1N1 vaccine is simply updated to protect against the H1N1 strain. It sounds like you guys have been listening to Fire Marshall Bill and that Playboy lady, rather than doctors and scientists.
It's not the same shot... it cannot be the same shot be/c the 'flu' is a different strain. If it were completely the same - they wouldn't have developed a new product. You make zero sense here. Even with just ONE variation in the chemical build-up of this vaccine, there could be side effects different than that of the standard flu shot.
As for your not being surprised that's my last sentence, take it for what it is. The Dept of Ed went ahead and basically went against the wishes of the parents who did NOT send their child in with the consent to have a foreign substance injected into their body. It doesn't matter if it's an H1N1 vaccine or a damn Vitamin C shot - the parents did not consent to the activity and their wishes were ignored. The worst of it is the 'Ooops, I don't know how this happened' position that the dept of ed takes. You don't know how this happened? Get with it!
First: nicemarmot didn't say it was exactly the same. Second: it's not a "new" product. It's precisely what was said above, a different version of the common flu vaccine.
Does THAT make sense? How could this not make sense? It's liiiiike if Dunkin Donuts usually filled their donuts with grape jelly, then one day they were like "oh shit the world really needs strawberry jelly donuts" so they made strawberry donuts. It's still a fucking donut, just putting strawberry inside obviously doesn't mean the whole donut is "new and untested" it's just goddamn strawberry fucking jelly for crying out loud. Just a new filling in an ordinary donut.
I'm happy you used that example! Now what would happen if a customer walked into dunkin donuts and ordered a jelly donut.. ate it and then kicked the bucket shortly thereafter be/c they're allergic to Strawberries? It's 'DIFFERENT' and in that it is different there can be major side effects introduced into the mix that need to be considered.
Different things cause different reactions in people and the fact of the matter is that if even one small portion of the new h1n1 strain of the flu vaccine is something that can cause seriously adverse reactions in the biology of a human being then that's enough. My point is that there has not been enough TESTING made available.
People are free to do whatever they want to do. You want to get the shot, get the shot. I'm not saying it's a horrible thing if you get it. My point is that if a parent did not give their consent for their child to receive this immunization based on their being uncomfortable w/ the research behind the drug and someone administered it anyway, there is a huge problem. Just as you have the right to get all the immunizations you want, the parents have the right to refuse a poorly tested immunization for their child. The fact that the Dept of Ed is so absolutely dismissive of their mistake is beyond me..
Your neglecting to consider that EVERY YEAR the flu vaccine is different. Did you know that? That's why people have to get it every year and it's not something like the MMR vaccine that stay the same, so you only need them once.
I was trying to put it very simply with the strawberry/grape donut thing. More accurately I should have said they were still grape donuts, only the jelly came from a different lot. The jelly in the donut you ate yesterday is just slightly different than the one you ate today, and the one you'll eat tomorrow.
Totally agree with Nikki.
My daughter has responded horribly to immunizations. She had a routine shot at her first birthday and lost use of one of her legs for almost 2 months. We were lucky that it somehow resolved over time, and she can now walk...but some kids are not so lucky and suffer permanent damage, often severe neurological impairments, due to these so-called "safe" immunizations.
Each child is different...and the CDC, the public school system, and all other government organizations that oversee US public health will never take into account the personal medical history of a child the way a parent would. Immunizations are invasive...and only a parent should decide what injections their children receive.
Which vaccine? (just curious)
I believe it was the HIB booster. Either that or the Hep A shot.
She could not bend her leg at all. Pediatrician told us it was unusual, but not completely unheard of, to have this side effect after the shot. Then a week passed, and they said that we should wait another week. Then 2 weeks passed, then 4, and they admitted it was an unusually long period to experience. After nearly a month and a half, she finally started bending her leg a little. By 8 weeks she was fine.
She also had an extreme rash as a result of the rotavirus immunization just 6 months earlier. She had Freddie Kruger's skin for nearly 2 weeks. Again, pediatrician told us it was rare to have such an extreme reaction.
We are hesitant to immunize her further because of these responses. If it was your child, I think you'd have the same reaction as us. If my decision puts the rest of the world at risk, then so be it. But I'm certainly not going to let the government/CDC put her at risk for developing another, potentially more harmful, reaction...especially given her prior history with immunizations. Call it selfish. It's my right to be selfish about the health of my kid.
And if your child had died and made the news, should people have mocked and derided her father for being an insensitive a$$ to others who have suffered tragedy, like you did to the Greens based on a completely unknown factor like the source of his trade? You'd better get yourself together, "farleft", because karma is coming your way...
My point is that there has not been enough TESTING made available.
And you know this how, Dr. Spock? What expertise do you have that would allow you to properly judge whether a vaccine -- ANY vaccine -- has been tested enough?
I work at a huge academic medical center. The chair of microbiology, who is a world famous influenza researcher who's been interviewed by 60 Minutes and published in the Wall Street Journal on the subject of H1N1, thinks people like you are foolish. This guy sits on the actual committee which every year decides which strains of flu will be included in next year's seasonal flu vaccine, and he would tell you that part of the reason why we don't have large quantities of H1N1 vaccine available now is precisely because of all the testing the vaccine has gone through.
Now I don't blame those parents for being angry that their kids were vaccinated against the parents' will. And I couldn't care less whether who chooses to get vaccinated or not. But why the hell would anyone believe what you have to say about the safety or efficacy of the H1N1 vaccine?
"This guy sits on the actual committee which every year decides which strains of flu will be included in next year's seasonal flu vaccine."
Then this "world famous influenza researcher" certainly missed the mark last year, where the flu vaccine was widely regarded as ineffective.
"But why the hell would anyone believe what you have to say about the safety or efficacy of the H1N1 vaccine?"
Because flue vaccines, including the H1N1 vaccine, all have side effects, which the CDC warns about on their webpage. Are you arguing that there is absolutely no concern about the H1N1 vaccine's safety? Because that would go against what the CDC notes.
The question of probability is another topic...but you cannot argue that severe side effects are 100% impossible.
Of course side effects are possible. It's also possible to die from the flu. My point is that the bullshit that's flying around about the H1N1 vaccine is ridiculous.
And yes, sometimes the dominant strains of next year's influenza are not anticipated and don't get into the vaccine. That happens. As I said on another Gothamist post yesterday, the committee decides in November which flu strains to put into the next year's vaccine. This novel H1N1 virus didn't show up until April, so that's why it didn't make it in. Next year it will all be just one vaccine, for H1N1 plus whatever other strains of flu the committee anticipates will be circulating.
What 'bullshit' things are you referring to?
You want a partial list? That it hasn't been tested. That's is an attempt at socialist mind control. That's is all part of government by fear. That the vaccine is probably more dangerous than swine flu itself. That it's all really just an attempt by the Obama administration to enrich the pharmaceutical companies. That the vaccine carries the same risk of GBS as the 1976 version. And so on.
Look, what happened to your kid is awful, and if my 4-year-old son had a history of negative reactions to vaccines I probably wouldn't get him vaccinated either. But he doesn't so I will, especially since I work in a place with a lot of sick people around. The choice is yours and I hope it works out for you.
"That it hasn't been tested. That's is an attempt at socialist mind control. That's is all part of government by fear. That the vaccine is probably more dangerous than swine flu itself. That it's all really just an attempt by the Obama administration to enrich the pharmaceutical companies. That the vaccine carries the same risk of GBS as the 1976 version. And so on."
I think you're a bit delusional...and perhaps a bit off your rocker. We never made any of these comments. Where are you getting this stuff? No disrespect, but perhaps your flu vaccine injection caused some adverse neurological effects?
I kid you. Seriously though...you can't take us to task for something we never said. What a waste of time.
Browse the comments here and in other posts about swine flu and you'll see all those things.
OK.. First of all, in the context of this debate I've represented my opinion with a level of eloquence and have continually repeated my stance that the dept of ed was wrong. That said, chill out w/ the sarcastic tone. I don't really care who you work for and what academic society tells you what- a belief is a belief and I have the right to mine. Your boss could be the almighty judge of all things H1N1 and I still wouldn't give a shit if he thought people like me were foolish.
I'll tell you what IS foolish. People who take the word of organizations like the CDC, Dept of Health and so forth, and do no formal research on their own of the possible side effects of pharmaceuticals they put into their bodies. This goes for immunizations, general prescriptions and so forth. The whole of society doesn't sit down and do their homework and it is for this reason that Pharma companies are insanely rich. THAT is foolish. People like me who actually CHALLENGE a system that is created to have complete control are a THREAT and that is why people like your boss and other medical professionals generally dislike us. They'll call us kooky and flash their education credentials to prove a point. F that -
As for whether or not people should believe me? I am not forcing my opinion onto anyone nor am I offering the advice to/not to get the vaccine. I am simply stating my opinion. You're the one who is on the offensive.. Not me.
You have a right to believe the earth is flat too. But when you start telling other people then it's a problem.
You said the vaccine is "practically experimental" and has not been tested enough. This is not true. I wouldn't blame you one bit if you choose not to trust someone who posts on the internet with the name JenChungsBra, but the fact is that you're spreading misinformation and I'm trying to stop it.
The system you believe you're challenging through your own "formal research" (you have a lab?) does not have the complete control you describe as you are free to get the vaccine or not. The reason medical professionals don't like people like you is the same reason astronomers don't like people who proclaim the world is flat -- because they're undermining the good work that real professionals are doing to help the public. And the only threat you present is to people who might listen to you.
But believe what you will.
so let me propose this idea to you... You said yourself that h1n1 hit the scene hard in what, April? It's October 30th. I'm sure EXTENSIVE EXTENSIVE testing has been done in less than 6 months, eh?
Care to explain to me how it is possible to gauge long-term effects of the h1n1 vaccine when the testing period itself is so short?
Why do you even ask? You already said you don't care what the CDC, the DOH or even a fictional "almighty judge of all things H1N1" might say. So where does the conversation go from there?
The H1N1 vaccine is nothing special -- it's just a flu vaccine. Flu vaccines have been around for decades and are proven to be safe in all but the rarest cases.
Why do I even ask? I ask because you are likening my argument to something like the Earth being flat - which is an absolute false-hood. Bad, bad comparison. My position is not completely false -
My opinion has some weight behind it and your inability to answer the question of long-term effects on subjects who receive the vaccination is proof. My opinion, aside from that which was stated earlier regarding parental choice, is that there was not sufficient testing done here. I proposed a scenario to you in the form of long term effects of the h1n1 vaccine and the fact of the matter is there is no answer because there wasn't enough testing (or rather, it wasn't lengthy enough) to provide an answer...which basically gives my opinion credence.
You have the right to believe the medical professionals and I have a right to question them and bright my opinion to light.
I did answer your question. There are billions of people who have gotten flu shots over the years and in all but the rarest cases they have been proven safe. And H1N1 is just another flu shot. There's nothing special about H1N1 except that it hadn't circulated in the human population for a long time and recently has started to again. I don't know how much clearer I could be.
But you and others will choose to believe what you want. I'm curious, what would be "enough" testing for you? How do you define that?
I think there are 2 arguments being made here. One one side, we have an argument for freedom of choice (parents choosing whether or not to vaccinate). On the other, we have an argument to dispel false information on vaccination testing and safety. Both are perfectly valid. I just think they're not necessarily related. One is a legal question about patient rights, the other a scientific one about public safety. It's hard to come to an agreement when both sides are arguing for different causes.
You're right and our wires may have gotten crossed at some point. I agree that the DOE shouldn't have vaccinated those kids without permission. As I said many times, choose for yourself. I also think the vaccine's safe, not just because of some hunch I have but because of discussion with actual medical professionals whose entire careers have been devoted to infectious disease research.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6531447125053615129&ei=OlfsSoy8HtX_lQfai4jbCQ&q=vaccine+nation&hl=en#
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6531447125053615129&ei=OlfsSoy8HtX_lQfai4jbCQ&q=vaccine+nation&hl=en#
"has received negative criticism from medical professionals"
Cites, please.
My...GOD! The world is coming to an end - somebody got a shot!
My pediatrician, who can't seem to get enough of the vaccine, said that we should go ahead and get our child vaccinated at school if possible. It makes me a little nervous and I have to admit I am undecided. My fears, however, have more to do with not wanting anything administered to my child by someone unknown and without my presence. It's just a bad sign about the way this is being run that 2 kids have 'accidentally' been immunized.
So easy to comment on things when you're not a parent.
For the record:
about one out of every million people will have a severe reaction to a flu vaccine, including anaphylaxis or Guillain-Barré Syndrome
Second to that is the CDCs FAQ page on the h1n1 side effects and risks involved.. you will note that ALL of their wording is phrased in a manner that indicates they clearly 'DO NOT KNOW'. Phrases like "We expect" and "past studies SUGGEST' -- Sorry, but no - it's all inconclusive.
The problem w/ half of the people dependent on various prescriptions (and im not talking about drug addicts here) is that they do not do the research they should before beginning a pharmaceutical regimen. Just because a doctor gives you something doesn't mean it's good for you, people. Educate yourselves and stop listening to the damn media and medical professionals who most often tell you whatever the pharma-companies ask them to - It's all about that $$
GBS, like you said, could happen in one in a MILLION people. GBS also when treated is almost always curable.
More people die from freakin coconuts falling on their heads than die from GBS.
That is not the point.. if you're a parent and you're faced w/ a statistic that says '1 in a million' can get A B or C, it is with YOUR child in mind that you're looking at that statistic. What if by some bizarre chance the 1 in a million that came down w/ a major side effect was one of these 2 children the bd of ed immunizeD? Would it be so easily dismissed as 'no big deal'?
It should NOT be up to someone else to decide what you feel comfortable with going into your child's immune system.
Yeah but immunizations aren't just for *your* child. There are children (and adults) with weak immune systems that cannot get the vaccine. If they have cancer, or other immune deficiency disorders or illnesses. When people decide not to vaccinate based on these minuscule odds of something (treatable!) happening they are putting those people at major risk.
It's heard herd immunity. That unvaccinated healthy child can spread the virus to people it can easily kill. When more people are vaccinated it protects those who cannot be. It's entirely selfish and self-serving to not vaccinate. It's spitting in the faces of people with much bigger problems than your illogical fear or nearly impossible complications.
That is a fair argument - but you're deviating from my original opinion - an opinion I am going to stick by Selfish or not, it is the right of the parent to make the decision as to what goes in their child.
A parent is not thinking about the whole of humanity when they're considering the side effects - and I understand that and it may make me selfish but I completely support it.
Again - it comes down to what you have a personal right to. The Dept of Ed went ahead and, in a way, violated these 2 children. They injected a POTENTIALLY (1 in a million or not!) harmful foreign body into these 2 kids SANS parental consent.. and that in itself is my issue.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6531447125053615129&ei=OlfsSoy8HtX_lQfai4jbCQ&q=vaccine+nation&hl=en#
An 800 percent increase in GBS risk
A second letter has also surfaced with a warning about the swine flu vaccine. It's from the Association of British Neurologists and is authored by Dr. Rustam Al-Shahi Salman and Professor Patrick Chinnery. It says "Following the 1976 program of vaccination against swine influenza in the US, a retrospective study found a possible eight-fold increase in the incidence of GBS."
That was only about the 1976 vaccine. There's still no conclusive evidence that the vaccine is what caused the GBS. 800% sounds like a lot, but in reality with that particular vaccine the incidence of GBS was roughly at 10 in one million. Still a minuscule number.
You can also get GBS from contracting the flu itself anyway. The flu or a number or other infections can bring it on. It's not solely related to h1n1 vaccines, or vaccines at all.
The 1976 argument is irrelevant. The methods by which vaccines are made today is almost completely different from how they were made in 1976.
Just because the methods are different doesn't mean vaccines are safe for everyone. Exhibit A: CDC webpage.
As per the European Center for Disease Control and other sources: There have been approximately 440,000 H1N1 confirmed cases worldwide, and that number is rising very quickly. The number of children in the United States killed by swine flu has jumped 20% in the last WEEK.
Yes, it is entirely your choice to vaccinate your child or not. However, based on these statistics alone, the likelihood of your child contracting swine flu, and suffering severe consequences from it, is far higher than the one in a million risk your child faces from the flu vaccine.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aGpsHhxmS5uU
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8334723.stm
I agree, it is ridiculous. Parental Consent should be needed for those who do NOT want their kid to get the shot. Vaccines have saved more lives than all other medical discoveries combined. If you do not want to be part of the modern world, by all means, home school upstate, but if you want the benefits of living in a large community, out here where the world is round, the community has the right to protect itself against your Typhoid Mary kids.
Here is a great piece on WNYC where a researcher who has an autistic child by the way, systematically shoots down each of these ridiculous superstitions: http://bit.ly/3HXbCd
Flame away.
"Parental Consent should be needed for those who do NOT want their kid to get the shot."
Are you kidding? There are certain immunizations that are required by law for kids to have in order to attend public school. There are others that are not required by law, including the flu vaccine. Why would you establish a policy whereby an OPTIONAL immunization, which some parents wish to avoid for their kids, be automatically administered unless there is written parental objection? That transfers parental control of invasive procedures into the hands of the public school and the CDC, who have not been the most reliable organization in approving safe drugs and immunizations. Sorry...but your comments are just plain dumb.
"There are certain immunizations that are required by law for kids to have in order to attend public school."
This should be one of them. There, that wasn't so hard, was it? And gee, I wonder why those other immunizations are required? Could it be because significant percentages of the human population died during previous epidemics? That society learned a lesson and progressed forward?
it's all about training folks. you try to stick anything into my kid and he'll come at your ballbag like a pissed off mystical ninja.
This is a pretty big fuck up. Whether or not the vaccine is deemed safe or not, without the consent form they should not have been given the shots. There are plenty of parents who refuse to immunize their children as babies-which ruffles feathers when they want to send their kids to public schools and have no immunization history...
this is another sticky issue at PTA's.
2 camps of thought facing off at a meeting is not a pretty sight.
still this shouldn't have happened. it can't be that difficult, I mean you need a consent form for class trips.
And the parents would give their consent based on???...Art Bell???...their religion???...whether they came out of a drunken stupor long enough to sight the form???...definitely a states rights issue.
So, what's to keep a concerned kid from forging the an idiot parent's signature? Are these nurses supposed to double-check the signature against records? I seem to remember some kids doing the same on their own report cards back in the day instead of risking the parents' wrath with bad grades.
It's one thing for a kid to forge a signature. It's another for the school to administer without a signature at all. You can fault the kid for the former. You can fault the school for the latter.
Absolutely appalling that the Parents were not warn, there have been plenty of cases of this Vaccine have severe side-effects.
This Vaccine was rushed by BIG PHARMA to make a lot of money on a flue scare that has been completely extrapolated by the media.
Citations, please? From reputable websites, not from blogs and websites written by people with absolutely no credentials whatsoever.
Farm factories has caused all these and vaccinations won't help. Vaccinations are the bread and butter of the pharmaceuticals. For all those who claims people who don't have their children vaccinated are selfish, It really all of us who support the cruelty of animals in farm factories. Avian flu, swine flu, and more will continue and all the vaccinations in the world won't help you.
The swine flu itself usually comes without parental consent.
google "swine flu mind control"
1st result.
Startling New Evidence That The 'Swine
Flu' Pandemic Is Man-Made
PRIMARY MOTIVE
The Primary Motive behind this alleged criminal activity is also the primary cause of most murders in the world today, and that motivation is simply: BIG MONEY. Billions of Dollars of windfall profits from government contracts worldwide, as a matter of fact.
I will provide evidence that will show that Novartis Pharmaceuticals of Basel, Switzerland has conspired with corrupt "scientists" at the U.S. Army Institute of Pathology Ft. Detrick, Maryland, to create a "novel" strain of weaponized "influenza" virus by means of "reverse engineering" the deadly 1918 killer strain which strain was maliciously and surreptitiously released upon the world in March and April of 2009 for the primary purpose of creating a panic-stricken world-wide demand for Novartis vaccine material.
The evidence will also clearly show that the Novartis vaccine material is in reality designed to facilitate the further mutation of the pandemic into more lethal waves of increasingly virulent and deadly disease, rather than to curtail and limit the existing outbreak. The evidence will show that Novartis is willingly being used, (and extremely well-paid) to facilitate the edicts of the global elite's Club of Rome; which edicts clearly call for a massive and sudden depopulation of certain segments of the earth's human population.
PRIMARY EVIDENCE
To realize such windfall profits on an engineered, global flu pandemic, detailed covert planning must take place of course.
Patents protecting the proprietary flu vaccine must be applied for and secured before the pandemic virus is released in order to minimize the competition and maximize the profit potentials. In a biological attack of this nature, timing is extremely critical.
Indeed, the evidence is clear Novartis applied for just such a patent on Nov. 4, 2005, and the U.S. Patent Office accepted this application and granted US 20090047353A1 for a "Split Influenza Vaccine with Adjuvants" on February 19, 2009. (See bottom of page).
With this patent now secured, the conspirators were now free to create the demand for their "novel" split influenza vaccine by releasing a "novel" split-influenza (combining multiple viruses) pandemic virus from a weapons lab test-tube into unsuspecting human hosts. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/17/AR2009061703271.html
The so-called "Swine Flu" grabbing headlines today is actually a recombinant, or "split-influenza" virus consisting of A-strain Bird-Flu (H5N1), Swine Flu (H1N1) and multiple strains of human flu (H3N2). Likewise, the 1918 Killer Flu that killed untold millions of people was a recombinant or "split-influenza" virus composed of Bird flu, Swine Flu, and multiple strains of human flu.
*read the rest*
well well well: http://gothamist.com/2009/10/31/girl_mistakenly_given_swine_flu_vac.php#comments
I'm so tired of trying to debate with stupid people who think they're smarter than decades of science.
The logic is the same as: "I would never run out of a burning building in a thunderstorm lest I be hit by lightening."
wow, I would give anything to have my child get this vaccination. He is a chronic asthmatic who has been hospitalized numerous times due to phnemonia. I am scared to death about what might happen if he gets this, and we dont have any vaccines available for him. I have decided to homeschool him until he can get a vaccination. It kills me to think about what might happen to him.. really people, you should be thrilled that your child got vaccinated, or are you just hoping for some sort of compensation. Thats really sad
i suggest you look up the story of Joseph Moshe called the white house bomber who had a big standoff with police recently...turns out he wasnt a bomber he was a scientist who threatened to blow the lid on Baxter and their swine flu vaccine & weapons research in the Ukraine, guess what...
Ukraine now has a giant swine flu outbreak,
almost half a million infected,thousands hospitalized and almost a hundred dead. strange coincidence?
dr. Moshe was deported and not charged with any crime? thats strange also?