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As a part of World Breastfeeding Week, a number of mothers and their children took to the subways for the fifth annual Breastfeeding Mothers' Subway Caravan. The point of the caravan is to remind non-lactating people that breastfeeding on the subway is totally legal—the NYC Department of Health says, "In New York State, employers must provide time and a space to pump breast milk. Both New York City and New York State have laws that protect a woman's right to breastfeed in public."
One mother told NY1, "That's my baby's food. So my baby has got to eat whenever he needs it. I don't have to deny my baby because of what people say or will be looking at. I don't have to," while another explained to the Post that people usually don't pay attention when she happens to feed her baby while on the subway, "Most people are buried in their own magazines. Most will just smile and look away."
The Subway Caravan got started because a woman was issued a desk appearance ticket for breastfeeding in public; State Senator Liz Krueger, who has introduced the Breastfeeding Bill of Rights in Albany (it'll probably be signed by Governor Paterson soon), said, "What we need to do is support mommies to be able to feed their babies, on demand, any time their babies need to eat. It is a win-win for the children, the mothers and for us as a society." Tell that to the cops—who ticketed a breastfeeding mom whose car was parked (but not blocking anyone) in a commercial zone—and Ikea —which banished a breastfeeding mom to the bathroom!
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This is wrong in so many ways. I don't care if they milk themselves in the woods or in a parked car but please NOT in the subway. This is strictly a sannitation issue. You need to trust me on this. The MTA does not need this kind of negative publicity. These woman must be stopped.
Yeah, I don't have a problem with breastfeeding, or even the vast majority of "lactivism," but this just seems weird.
For one thing, it undercuts the usual response that is given when some busybody tries to suggest a woman breastfeed in a bathroom -- i.e., "Would you want to eat in the bathroom?"
Well, no, but I would rather eat in most bathrooms than in the NYC subway.
If the objective is that women should be able to feed their infants in any public place (including the subway if necessary), then a subway-focused protest that leads people to question the activists' judgement will only undercut their message and their cause.
"This is strictly a sannitation issue." Why, because some dust from the subway is going to attach itself tot a woman's nipple for the few seconds that it's not in it's bra and the baby's mouth is not on it?
DH, the more you comment the weirder we all learn you are. Are you the kind of person who wears a face-mask everwhere you go? You're gonna be a blast to have around when swine flu comes back...
I am surpised that nobody has ever brought up that when there is a feeding going on guys will be jockeying for a peek. I know I have been guilty of this before. This then could potentially be a safety issue not to mention it is a huge distraction.
I now can't get the image of Woody Allen being chased around the city by a giant lactating boob out of my head.
Actually, this time of year, there are LOTS of women's breasts to stare at on the subway - breasts that do NOT have a small child attached to them!
"Cleavage season" in this city begins around April Fools Day and extends all the way to Columbus Day - there are lots of women with various types of low cut tops, many of which, from the proper angle, show quite a bit of boobage.
So, considering how many partially exposed mammary glands there already are on the subway, why not let the La Leche League ladies whip out their titties to feed little Zoe or Aiden?
Dude, they're just boobies.
They are NOT "just boobies" - they are two of the sexiest parts of a woman's body - served up and put on display for male enjoyment by hundreds of thousands of New York women this time of year!
Why, because some dust from the subway is going to attach itself tot a woman's nipple for the few seconds that it's not in it's bra and the baby's mouth is not on it?
How about because babies often spit up and make a mess?
Spit up!?! It's not the freakin' blueberry pie scene from Stand By Me. Jesus, anyone on this site every actually seen a baby?!?
yes, actually, i have many nieces and nephews. my youngest nephew spits up every time he eats, no matter how much he eats, and yes, the doctor has been consulted. spit up happens. perhaps you have been blessed with children that don't spit up, but that is not the case with all babies by any stretch of the imagination.
that being said: i eat on the subway when i'm running late; i'm fine with babies eating on the subway, too.
re-reading your comment, i wonder if you just meant that spit up doesn't go all over the place. if that's the case, i agree with you!
anyone on this site every actually seen a baby?!?
Have you? Sometimes they make a mess. Ever notice how women put a towel on their shoulder when they burp an infant? It isn't because it's the latest style. In most circumstances it wouldn't matter to me but in the subway I might very well be sitting inches away.
well said im a strong woman and dedicated liberal moralist vegan but some things are not meant for the public! From a sanitation stand point urine or even feces carry less disease than breast milk, that carries as much disease as blood.
By the way if you click one of those links you'll see that the crack pots pushing this issue are the same lunatics that advocate breast feeding in to later childhood, and we've all seen the you tube videos (thanks to BBC) on those women and their future head case kids.
Dude, you have probs that cannot be dealt with here. Might we inquire as to the health & welfare of your children?
I think all forms of eating on MTA subways and buses is gross, disrespectful, and should be prohibited.
And as for the completely valid parking ticket that Gothamist keeps bringing up in connection with breastfeeding, what exactly do you want? Should breastfeeding mothers be established as a special class of people, like foreign diplomats, that are immune from traffic and parking violations?
If you plug this number "7893710330" into the NYC Dept. of Finance website, you will find that Enrique Velez also has another (unpaid) violation from May 22.
Parking violations seem to be a habit for him and his wife Marta Lily. Breastfeeding was just anoher bs excuse for him to get out of paying the latest violation.
Yeah! like Diplomats!
How many babies are the diplomats feeding?
I get their plight and personally don't care if their babies are hungry and need to be fed in front of me on the subway. More power to ya!
However, that "our babies need to be fed whenever they're hungry, especially when I'm in a public setting and especially on the subway" mentality is not cool for the following reasons:
1) These women better learn to say no to their kids when they demand cookies "whenever they are hungry," or else they'll just end up being stupid obese turds because their mommies think they're so great.
2) Like every right that we members of society and New Yorkers have, stop making it seem like your's is more important than the next person's (ie. chill the fuck out and do it without making a stink).
1) "These women better learn to say no to their kids when they demand cookies "whenever they are hungry." You're a f*cking idiot and you know not the first thing about babies, despite being a huge one yourself. A baby lacks impulse control and can't stop itself from acting out (i.e. crying). When it's hungry, it's hungry and it needs to be fed. Maybe the mother should smack the babies when they cry - would you prefer that?
2) I tend to think a baby's right to be fed when it's hungry is more important than your average NYer's right to anything else. It's far more important than your selfish, control-freak, "if I get even one speck of dirt on me I'm gonna just die" ideals.
waaahhhh waaahhhh feed me I'm hungry.
Yes I understand the difference between a baby having no impulse control and a child that wants cookies. I'm just saying that the quoted mother was getting too defensive (as is every mom that attends this stupid rally), and at some point in the grown child's life she may end up protecting her child's right to whatever it wants only to lead to problems, such as becoming a fat asshole like 40% of the general population already is. That to me doesn't seem so unreasonable a thought given that parents are F'in pushovers these days and their children suffer as a result.
You, however, are clearly not a pushover, because you have serious issues with just about everything. I'd bet you have a very physically fit child that's a brilliant student, so congratulations to you and the powerful brain that lies beneath your skull, but unfortunately not every protesting mother is as wonderful as you are.
Given that I said how I don't mind mother's breastfeeding, how did you arrive at the conclusion that I'm one of those "if I get even one speck of dirt on me I'm gonna just die" people? You might have mistaken me for DH, which leads me to question your apparent brilliance in distinguishing between the many people you have issues with. I'm about to go urinate, and rather than protest my right to do it on the subway, I'll be sure not to wash my hands just for you :)
Just because one woman got a ticket a few years ago does not make this more important than other societal rights. More than one minority has recently and forever been picked on by the NYPD, which leads me to believe that that is a more important issue which demands our protest.
1. Ever seen some of these insane lactivists' children a few years later? Walk around Park Slope some Saturday afternoon, if you haven't. They do tend to be spoiled, self-centered monsters. This attitude, that they're special little flowers who should never be reprimanded in any way, carries over to everything.
2. So a baby's right to eat is more important than anything else and everyone else's rights? Right, because Your Baby is SPECIAL and IMPORTANT and BETTER than everyone and ENTITLED to have priority over everyone else! Who CARES about the rest of the world! See #1 again. Nope, sorry, you and your special little flower are two of eight million people, and had better learn to get along as part of a communal society. Which includes learning some basic consideration for other people. You have the right to breastfeed; others have the right to think it's disgusting. See how that works?
I have no problem with breastfeeding. Feed your baby, educate other mothers, yay, hurrah. But protests like these are beyond stupid. Nice to see they have a lot of time to waste on this, instead of real issues. Let them spend a day in someone else's shoes as they are harassed or unfairly detained by the police, are unable to marry because of their orientation, are denied employment due to their age/gender etc. Then they can get back to me about how unfair and meeeeeaasaan the world is.
To both Roe and PTG:
Why do you both assume that I'm a women and that I have a child. I'm not, and I don't.
I'm at a lose that you're both comparing this to the rights of oppressed minority groups. What's the connection? It's not more important than other groups serious grievances with society - but this one's easily solvable - baby is hungry, baby needs to eat. Been goin' on for millions of years - why is this an issue now? Sure, the protest is silly, but it's sillier that they have to protest the mistreatment in the first place.
"and at some point in the grown child's life she may end up protecting her child's right to whatever it wants only to lead to problems" - Presumptuous.
I'm wondering how long before this argument devolves into "Babies shouldn't be allowed on the subway. Period."
CR, I don't know your gender, and I don't know if you're a parent. I was responding to your comments, which did imply that you consider this to be a more important issue than others:
...I tend to think a baby's right to be fed when it's hungry is more important than your average NYer's right to anything else.
That's just not true. You're absolutely right; breastfeeding has happened as long as babies have happened, and there's nothing remarkable about it in any way, any more than any other biological process.
The problem is that with protests like these, lactivists are turning it into an issue. When they start screaming and going on 'nurse-ins' and protests, and basically carrying on, because one person working in a store happened to object to them, they come across as entitled, self-centered morons.
And I do think it's pathetic that they would waste their time on lactivism and protesting when there are so many real issues out there involving children out there. I have to wonder how many of these folks who scream about breastfeeding have ever taken such active steps to defend other causes that don't just involve their own little special interest group.
Does anyone see the irony in PTG's comment? On the one hand, he's all for anybody driving a train, regardless of whether they're qualified or even employed by the railroad. Hey, as long as nobody dies, where's the harm? To hell with the fun police! Then he turns around and all of a sudden, babies shouldn't be babies. Nobody's hurt by breastfeeding? It doesn't matter! It's bad!
The funny thing is that the commenters on Gothamist who complain the most vehemently about breastfeeding are invariably uptight men. Personally, I have no problems with the practice and can even avert my eyes discreetly to give the mother and child privacy. It's something apparently PTG can't do with his lack of self-control. "I wanna drive the train! Waaaah!"
Ironically enough, it's been shown that breastfed babies are less inclined to be obese, because they eat until they're full, not until the bottle is empty.
I've heard this claim before and it took me all of five seconds to find a Harvard study that says there is no link between breast feeding and adolescent and adult obesity. At best, it impacts weight below the age of five and even then there is no evidence of causality. In the US breast feeding is more common among better educated and higher income women - exactly the kinds of people that eat healthier, have a healthier overall lifestyle and have lower levels of obesity.
If the baby is that hungry, why not bring a bottle? Seems like a simple enough solution without having to subject the rest of us to seeing this.
A bottle is not always available, and some babies won't feed from one. It's amazing how this issue is only an issue here - the rest of the world doesn't give a sh*t.
Poor baby. How will you ever survive the sight of a nursing infant? You'll be psychologically scarred for the rest of your life.
taking a dump is perfectly natural as well, but I dont want to see anyone doing it on the subway.
there is nothing wrong with pumped breast milk give the kid a bottle there are certain things that should be private, breast feeding is one of them.
Babies need to be fed about every four hours or so. Anyone dragging their kid around town for this long sounds like the same kind of self indulgent person that drags their kid to a bar because they can't let parenting get in the way of their social life. Same people that bring their newborns on long plane trips.
Breastfed babies actually eat every 2 hours or so, because breastmilk is less filling than formula. Should these women just hole up in their homes until their kids are old enough to eat solids so that you're happier?
As I have said a dozen times, it doesn't bother me one way or the other. But feeding a kid on the train tells me that you put your own interests ahead of the kid.
And it's more like two to three hours and it's only for a few months until the interval gets longer. Simply adjust your schedule slightly. Feed your kid. Go out. Come home. Repeat. Or find a nice quiet place to feed.
Hey, they're babies. Maybe not up to your defined code of social etiquette, but at least allow them to grab some nip whenever they want before they learn what life is really like. Ticket dink aside, feed those babies, keep them happy, let them enjoy. Just make sure that as they grow you keep your SUV stroller out of my way and teach them to behave properly in public.
I second that.
Third'd.
Fourth
I must admit I find it completely baffling that this is even an issue. Of course I also find it somewhat baffling that people seem to be bringing their babies places that aren't appropriate for babies, but that's a separate issue. If there IS a baby around, I couldn't care less if it's sucking on a titty. I don't understand at all how people are offended.
With all this concern by the politicians and the NYS Department of Health mandating/approving public breastfeeding in the subway, just maybe these groups could finally mandate public restrooms, too?
Can I just get home without stepping onto the Express Milk Express?
Anyone who doesn't have an infant that needs to eat and comments on breastfeeding doesn't have any idea what the hell they're talking about.
It's a tit. We're in New York, not the bible belt. Get over it.
I don't think anyone here has actually said they are offended or scandalized by the breast per se. But since you brought it up, if even a small percent of the public is offended is it too much to ask to at least find an out of the way place to feed your kid? Just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean you can't take others into account. Most of the comments here are directed at the parents. You say what if the kid needs to eat. How about taking that into account before you even leave the house? Feed the kid before you go out and keep your trips out short. If you need to feed your child find a nice quiet place to sit down. Who gets on the subway knowing there's a chance the kid needs to be fed in the next twenty minutes?
Saw this lady last week with 4 small children, who were out of control btw, breastfeeding another kid and it made me very uncomfortable. Not because she was breastfeeding, but the way she was doing it.
She was very matterfactly with her jugs completely out, no tact, no discretion, and during rush hour too.
Not to mention the kid was easily 2 years old latched on with no help from worlds best mom.
Hey, kid on the teat, no prob. Other little buggers out of control, she has to get them in line. If the worst I have to deal with on mass transit is a nipple-sucking bugger, I've had a good day. Now the chicken-bone- sucking-and-tossing rice-scattering napkin-dropping cretins? That gets me pissed.
Exactly. I breast fed 2 children and never had any problems whatsoever. None. If you're discreet and respectful, very few people even notice. These crazy attention seekers are just manufacturing drama.
That's it exactly.
Only because you never breastfed around Dead Himmler, ides_of_march or Eastriver. Then you would have gotten the Evil Eye and an earful.
You're an idiot. I don't have a problem with breast feeding in public per se. It's the people that insist on putting themselves in your face to make a point. As moonbeam said, if you're discreet and respectful people don't bother you. I would never say anything to a woman breast feeding in public but I sure would wonder why she's doing it two inches away from me on the subway rather than finding a nice quiet place above ground.
Yeah, yeah. Anytime they're out, they're "in your face." I sincerely doubt any woman ever nursed "two inches" from you. Did you maybe stop to think (nah!) that maybe they wouldn't rally like this if uptight people never made it an issue to begin with? You call them attention whores. Fine. Then don't give them any attention and maybe they'll just go back to quietly nursing. But the more you complain about them, the more they'll fight you and those of your ilk. Now shut up and drink your milk.
And it took me only five seconds to find a government page touting the advantages of breastfeeding for almost all mothers and babies.
http://chfs.ky.gov/dph/bf1.htm
Did you even read the page you linked? It doesn't even cite a single scientific study. And regardless, I never said breast feeding wasn't a good thing. What I did say in response to someone else is that there is no link between breast feeding and obesity - something your linked page doesn't even mention anyway.
I completely agree with the drama seeking angle. After all their hormones are bouncing off the wall and they're on maternity leave. What else are they going to be doing? Oprah is only on once a day and The View became unbearable back when Star Jones started eating the guests.
"Tell that to the cops—who ticketed a breastfeeding mom whose car was parked (but not blocking anyone) in a commercial zone"
C'mon Jen. Like I said in the other post's comments, that wasn't about breastfeeding. It was about someone who tried to use a lousy excuse to not pay a perfectly legal ticket.
If my 2 month old was crying, I would find a legal spot in which to breastfeed him. I wouldn't cry about a perfectly legal parking ticket for parking in a perfectly illegal spot.
We really should go at cops who do a disservice to the rest of us by breaking laws, not at cops who do the right thing by enforcing the law.
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
It's weird, it's unnecessary and it's ARROGANT.
If you don't mind that I'm looking at your/your wife's naked breasts in public, then I guess I don't mind either.
Are these moms stupid? No wonder I always see a lot moms letting their kids lick subway train seats, poles, and windows.
While I understand that it is perfectly legal, I don't enjoy going about my usual daily business and seeing a nipple. As a woman, it just makes me uncomfortable. Why don't I have a right not to see this? Don't say look away either, because most of the time I see it without warning. Pump your milk. Put it in a bottle. That's respectful. It's like going into a restaurant and eating topless.
Aaagh! A nipple! Saints preserve us! Meanwhile, if a man bares his, like the Naked Cowboy does every day, you wouldn't bat a eye. Hey, if you really want to get upset about something, how about when a handyman flashes you with butt crack? What about thongs on beaches? Or fat men in Speedos? Or even just string bikinis? They're so tiny yet as long as the nipple doesn't show, you're okay with it. You remind me of the edict NBC gave to the costume designer for Star Trek back in the 1960s. For women's costumes, they could show as much boob as they want -- except for the nipples and the undersides. The tops and sides were fine. Unlimited cleavage was no problem.
Look at me, look at me, I have boobs! Hooray!
Attention seekers.
Don't you mean you are a boob? Actually, we know that you ultraconservatives not only want women to not nurse on the subway, you don't even want them on the subway. The little woman should be barefoot and pregnant at home, right?
The little woman should be barefoot and pregnant at home, right?
No. Nobody said that. We all know that you're to dumb to put together an actual argument so you have to resort to putting words in people's mouths and then attacking them. Isn't that the definition of straw man?
Ultra conservatives happen to have all huge egos, yet small brains and dongs; said by the 99% male oriented comments.
A mans nipple looks much different than a lactating one... People don't agree with you. Don't get offended. Grow up. It's a fact of life, just like me having to see your drippy nipple. Pretty sure I'm on the losing end.
Don't particularly notice hoards of breast-feeding women feeding their babes all over. But the times I have (including out with my kids), it's been a no-big-dealer. Guess those who "feel uncomfortable" have never been to a beach in France, Tahiti etc. We're all naked underneath our Ipods & American Apparels, no biggy. If that's the worst you have to deal with during your day, you're a lucky ducky. Chill.
[Homer Simpson voice] "Mmmmmm, boobies!" [/Homer Simpson voice]
Where's the mouth on titty shot, gothamist? whats the matter, makes you uncomfortable?
IKEA for example, has a partition in their dining area for breastfeeding.
Another pointless "protest" brought to us by the self-absorbed nazi lactactors who think they're special and privileged because their baby is nursing.