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A MetroCard that works like an E-ZPass, allowing transit riders to pass through turnstiles and board buses without any of that messy swiping, could be implemented within two years, says outgoing MTA CEO Elliot Sander. His last day is today (he resigned after Gov. Paterson vowed a "widespread cleanup and cleanout" of the MTA) and he's given some exit interviews defending his record ("trains are on time more often!") and previewing the "contactless" device the Authority wants to replace the MetroCard. Sensors on turnstiles or near bus entrances would detect a card or key-fob-like device and automatically deduct the fare from bank accounts. He says this would improve effeciancy by speeding up crowds of riders waiting to swipe their cards. Of course, the MTA has been considering this for years, and on some stations along the Lexington Avenue line, subway riders can wave a Citibank smart card or MasterCard debit key fob at turnstiles.
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WHAT???!!! They have enough money to completely change the card system not 10 years after instituting it and changing every turnstyle in the city?
And they want to deduct fares directly from my bank account. No thank you!
try 15 years. launched in 1994, accepted in all stations 1997, phase out of tokens 2003.
also, the PATH has similar cards. you want to be behind nj?
In 1999 they were still changing over turnstiles. That was 10 years ago. And YES, I want to be behind NJ if it means the MTA spending more money it doesn't have and rasing my fares again. Yes, please!
The PATH cards still require you to touch the sensor (or at least be inches away from it). And they sometimes fail and you end up doing it a couple time or even moving to a different turnstile. Though I think it is much more reliable than the metrocard. The question is why now?
"automatically deduct the fare from bank accounts"?
I think I'd opt out of that...
How do I get a Homeboy Hookup with those?
How do they have the money for this? Last time I checked the MTA was suffering from massive budget shortfalls. Does it make sense to spend what must be millions of dollars to implement this system?
Also, can you imagine how much of a headache it will be to contest overcharges if their system fails? Picture if you will a scenario where the system glitches, deducts a whole fistful of cash from your account, and the MTA rep telling you that you must have gotten on and off the train/bus repeatedly and your transit use isn't their problem.
it'll pay for itself in a couple years. the metrocard saves money too, you know.
would you rather go back to the days of tokens?
Why is this necessary? What's so critically wrong with MetroCards that they need to be done away with immediately? Doesn't the MTA have more pressing problems that could use the capital instead of this nonsense?
You live in a single fare zone, don't you? If you had take a bus, especially from a terminal, you'd know just why this is necessary.
Getting on the Q27 at Main St. in the morning you have to wait upwards of five minutes just for everyone to swipe and board. It's a complete waste of time.
Have you heard that there's a way you can bend the MetroCard so that it always works. I'm not sure if this is their response to that, but, if so, it's ridiculous. How many people actually know how to do that.
And the cost of replacing ALL the turnstiles could not possible cover whatever they're losing from a few delinquents who know how to rig the MetroCard. Also, isn't it only a matter of time before they figure out a way to fix the key fob, too!?
This is just another example of the ineptitude of those in charge at the MTA.
Thank goodness. It was so difficult reaching into my pocket and swiping that card. Also, I really trust the MTA and would be completely comfortable with them deducting money from my bank account. I can't wait to go home, put on my Snuggie and dream about how much easier my life is going to become.
damn you innovation!!! damn you to hell!!!
These systems are not like EZ-Pass, at least none of the ones that I've used. You generally have to get the card/fob an inch from the sensor, and then it still may have issues. In DC, which has contactless farecards, multiple "touches" are just as common as multiple swipes in NYC.
The PATH's Smartlink cards have the sdame exact issue. I often have to tap the damn card three times before it will let me through.
Do we need further proof that the MTA fucking sucks?
Funny how so many commenters are against an idea that will bring one aspect of the MTA up to par with other systems around the country and around the world. A good chunk of large metro systems across the globe now have some form of contactless payment system. Is it really that horrible that the MTA wants to upgrade to 8-year old technology?
Linking to bank/credit accounts may be good for some people but I would prefer them to keep the current system as well, where users can preload a card with a certain amount and just run it down.
Also, this will probably reduce the amount of discarded MetroCards you see everywhere.
I don't think everyone's against the technology; just the timing. Sounds like a good plan, but you know there'll be a bunch of startup glitches that'll delay the system and create a bigger hassle than necessary. Plus they were crying broke and threatening to severely cut service not two weeks ago.
F the MTA and their distraction techniques. Too little too late!
There will be startup glitches with such a system no matter what. It's only a matter of whether you want to experience them now or later.
Is it so wrong to at least hope something good can come of new technology?
All else being equal, I might prefer new technology. But there are always two important questions to ask:
1. Do we need it / is it significantly better?
2. Can we afford it?
I can't think of any reason the MTA needs this. Is swiping a MetroCard really that hard? Are there really massive lines in front of turnstiles, that wouldn't be there with this system? And will people really just let the MTA link to their bank account (I sure as hell won't)?
Moreover, all we ever hear about is how the MTA is broke -- service cuts, fare hikes, etc. The MTA only has money for the bare essentials at the moment. So unless this is really necessary, they can't afford it.
It may not save a significant amount of time on the subway but think of how it can be utilized on the bus. Instead of waiting for people to dip their MetroCard, you just tap your wallet and walk onto the bus. It has the potential to cut down boarding time significantly, which is worth it alone for many bus riders.
I'd rather see some innovation from the MTA, especially on something customers use every day, rather than the status quo and stagnation.
Arguing with an optimist is exhausting! But I'm glad you exist. :)
You're right - for bus riders this would be a godsend. An amazing amount of time is wasted at each stop while people fumble to put the card in the right way, or waiting for the machine to properly read the card. This could significantly improve the efficiency of bus routes.
And probably a good chunk of metro systems around the world display the time of the next train. I think that is way more useful. I don't ride the L train that often but each time that I have waited for it, the display is WRONG (either the time is wrong or the train direction is wrong! I mean how can you get the direction wrong?).
how about going back to the days of tokens?
ftw
Boarding buses was a lot faster in the days of tokens!
Thank you!
It was so much easier when we had tokens!
Nothing was better than a pocketful of tokens.
...ok, lots of things were better but it was still a good feeling.
Gotta love it. The MTA and their subcontractors, (like somebody's brother-in-law from Staten Island if ya know what I mean) with access to a million bank accounts and personal info, and RFIDs. What could go wrong?
The MBTA in Boston did this. They saved a lot of money by not having to buy a constant supply of tickets/cards and tokens that people who used the new card got a nice discount. I doubt the MTA will do the same with a discount, but it can definitely save money. Plus I won't have to worry about my card getting weak and not swiping. It's about time they try to catch up with the rest of the world.
There is no chance in hell I'd give the MTA my bank information. If the upper management of the MTA happens to read this, WE DON'T TRUST YOU.
You don't HAVE to give your bank info. It's just an option.
At least Sander made the trains run on time.
So did Mussolini....
Dibs on extracting the RFID unit from the card, and implanting it in a toy magic wand.
You don't HAVE to give your bank info. It's just an option.
You have to give some info. A credit card, is that safer?
At least with this if there was a problem with your bank account deductions you could discuss it with a live customer service booth agent. You would not have to call and be on hold for 20 minutes.
Next project in the works: contactless buses. They never show up, hence you make no contact with them.
Hopefully if they do something like this it could be integrated into some sort of compatible with other transit agencies systems fare collection systems much in the way the EZPass is.
I do not want these incompetent boobs anywhere near my bank account.
The New MTA OneCard™
OneCard™ to rule them all
OneCard™ to find them
OneCard™ to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them
.........lol!
me likey.
...
That's Just PERFECT.
;)
I'd rather see something like London's Oystercard: stiff plastic which one touches to a pad on the front of the turnstile. I've also been in the Chicago, Boston and DC subways where the reader is in front--rather than the side-- and have yet to be hassled by someone trying to sell me a swipe in those places.
New smart cards.
Same old stupid fucking employees.
Sander must own a stake in the company likely to win the contract to implement this technology, which will undoubtedly be 5 years and $400 million over budget.
Consensus seems to agree that the buses need this, so do it on the buses and cut your losses. Fuck you MTA
The Oyster is fantastic and I think having a similar touch method would, overall, speed up the flow of passengers and reduce clogging and moreover annoyance. Although, with the service cuts and generally bad service on the subway lately, perhaps we don't need people getting into the station quicker and easier...
I have very very rarely experienced clogging. And if so, only caused by tourists....
1 - Will the fare be discounted the way EZ Pass is?
2 - Will we still get a free transfer or will we be charged twice?
With this system in place, a 'fare zone' pay scale can be implemented.
I hope we can opt out of the bank account option. A seperate account that can be pre-loaded is what I'd like. The MTA has never garnerd my trust. Feh!
Wow, and it only took them a decade.
"automatically deduct the fare from bank accounts"?
Note to MTA douchebags - not every New Yorker has a bank account!
And for many who do, we don't always have money just lying around in the bank unspent - I'm sure I'm not the only New Yorker who ends up with a bank balance of $ 11.44 after paying the bills!
That automatic deduction thing might work on the Upper East Side - but what about East Harlem?
I think no one is against technology, but first of all the timing is insane, and they want to improve on something that doesn't need improvement at the moment! Metrocards work just fine, and it's easier to keep track of costs if I pay for rides in advance.
how about investing in digital timetables that tell me when the train is coming? Can't be too difficult (every major city in the world has it). As far as I know only the L train has this at the moment. Very helpful feature. One night the LED sign showed that the next train is coming in 30 minutes. Too long, so I took a taxi. Of course I had to pay the fare in order to get on the platform and see that message, but still. Very helpful.
Another night I waited at least 30 minutes for an F from Brooklyn to Manhattan. Finally it came, but then went suddenly express (at 3am), so I had to get off and walk for 25 minutes. I could have avoided all this aggravation if there had been an updated LED schedule message like with the L.
I expect it will take at least 10 years to update other lines with this very simple thing... sigh....
Once again the MTA takes what could have been a good idea and places a crackpot spin on it.
I can't WAIT to get rid of the easily lost scrappy bit of card that costs me $350 a month. I'm sure as hell not comfortable with the MTA having direct access to my bank account.
What's wrong with simply implementing an annually-purchased or automatically topped-up RFID pass, much like Londons Oyster card system? Even better, Oyster cards are protected by a username and password, meaning if they get lost they can be replaced. If you lose your MTA/LIRR card... you're screwed. They'll charge you full fare for a replacement.
They don't have direct access to your bank account, you have the flexibility to fund them from a credit card or pre-tax deductible commuter card (assuming they EVER make those things less clunky and more usable)
I'm glad the MTA is considering these changes - I just hope it also includes regional rail so we can move to automated barriers instead of paying people to walk up and down a train all day punching holes in cards.
i'd certainly like to steal one of these new cards off someone. linked to a bank account? DELICIOUS!
I take buses. I find myself standing out in the rain with great frequency because old ladies and stupid people don't realize they need to take their cards out and dip them quickly so the line can move.
Eventually, if this is not fixed, I will murder someone on the line for the M16 and go to prison for it. This will cost much more than whatever the cost to upgrade the infrastructure, which we will eventually need to do anyway. Use your heads, people.
(That said--ATM/credit card deduction will not only not work for everyone, but it will have to be absolutely eliminated where it exists. I need to know when I wave my wallet in front of the sensor that it will react to exactly one thing inside. And if I don't get a monthly card at a pre-tax discount, I will, again, murder someone.)
What about those of us who get TransitChek at work? Will they have to issue a smartcard instead of getting the TransitCheck Visa card? I just don't see it working. How about people who have employers who buy them 30 day unlimited metrocards with a corporate credit card? I doubt those employers will let the MTA just deduct the money from their bank accounts, so there goes that benefit for a lot of people. Way to go MTA.
I'm not liking the idea of a card that can be stolen that is also directly linked to my bank account. So I wont be using that card. I suppose I could create a new bank account that is intentionally not linked to my other accounts but that's effort and maintenance, and for what benefit exactly?
Mike b's post made me smile