Victims' Families Ask Manhattan DA, "Where's the Justice?"

awful. jailing the guy who used the emergency door at the subway was clearly more important

I love how all of their signs are professionally done by victims' rights groups.

Wait, never mind. This will be in an episode of L&O only there will be a dead man in the van's driver's seat and the children will jump out of the way at the last moment. Or a heroic African American will rescue them. Mark my words...

Where the f**k is Jack MCcoy!?

how about an illegal u turn or crossing the solid double line? not even a traffic infraction?????

I got a ticket once for bringing a bicycle on a train, the offense was "bulky article". this was way back in 1983.

and you wonder why I'm the way I am. I got a ticket for that but getting caught with a 007 knife, that just get's the item confiscated. also back in the eighties, but not me.

thankfully Pb is still available. and people should stock up on that.

Praytell, what exactly is a "007 knife?"

http://www.martialartsgear.com/knives/foldingknives/2178.html

I'm dating myself here. it's just a giant folding knife that people would alter to make it flip open easily.

it has plain wood scales/handle with "007" in gold etched in the wood. mine came with a leather lanyard attached. can't be worth more than $10 and made in China.

Ah, a flea market special, got it.

It is scary out there for pedestrians, and the city needs to do whatever it needs to do to make our walking city safer. What happened to these children is terrible, and I have no idea what these families must be feeling right now.

However, and I have commented on this before, this seems to me like a tort and not a crime. Leaving the car idling may not rise to the level of recklessness needed for criminal charges, but these families have another option in the civil courts.

There may possibly be a case for vehicular manslaughter, though I would question whether the act in question was truly negligent as it's certainly not reckless. Is leaving your car idling somewhere considered a crime? Does it follow that you would assume leaving your car idling could cause harm to someone? Serious questions.

Seems to me it's an accident (and not in any way similar to an 'accident' caused by DUI, which can be charged as homocide I believe). It's unfortunate that it happened, but what does the family want done? The law is not for vengeance. They would probably have a case for financial restitution but I'm not sure how you would put a value on what they lost.

IANAL so who knows *shrug*

It used to be that killing someone while driving drunk was considered "an accident" and not prosecuted at all. Now we know better.

starrygordon, that exact same thing happened to me three years ago, but I DID manage to get the license plate number. I called the police while still laying in the street. They got there pretty quickly, but since I was only bruised, with torn clothing, and a bent bike, they DID NOTHING. They refused to even take the number! They said since I wasn't seriously hurt, they weren't going to go after the driver. I HAD THE LICENSE PLATE NUMBER!

Sorry, this still makes me angry.

sluggo, the cops who responded to you call mostly likely drive to work in their own cars. From the suburbs. They have to deal with other traffic, pedestrians and cyclists on their commute. The cops who responded to the act of negligence that killed 2 children in Chinatown most likely drive to work every day. Some of them may even park their cars illegaly.

When these cops are at the scene of a crime/accident, and they have to make a snap judgement call, who do you think they relate to more in these situations? Fellow automobile drivers or the Chinese-American grieving mother of a dead child?

I think hit-and-run is the default procedure in New York City. I was on a bicycle a week ago and a driver knocked me down by sideswiping me -- he or she was making a turn and came up from behind and cut me off at an intersection. The car stopped and the driver's companion took a good look at me lying on the street for a moment and then said something, probably "Get the hell out of here," and the car sped off. Unfortunately I didn't get the license number. Par for the course, I think.

As to bicyclists hitting pedestrians, I find that many pedestrians can't seem to see bicycles and will step directly in front of me. Thank God I've never hit one, but there are fairly close calls almost every day. I am trying to think of some sort of noise emitter that might alert even the most zombified of them. But of course many now are plugged into iPods.

Oh, well, let's get back to pretending that drivers, bicyclists and pedestrians are three separate races of robots who are all responsible for what the other robots of their kind do.

"As to bicyclists hitting pedestrians, I find that many pedestrians can't seem to see bicycles and will step directly in front of me."

Maybe pedestrians wouldn't keep stepping in front of you if: 1) you exercised caution while riding near them and slowed the eff down in areas where there are many of them 2) anticipated their movements better and 3) used your DAMN horn or bell to alert them of your presence

Just a thought.

", I find that many pedestrians can't seem to see bicycles...even the most zombified of them. "

That's right. Blame the victims.

Curious. When you get off your bike, do you become one of the zombies, or are you special, like all the cyclists seem to believe they are?

A: You become one of the zombies.

Starrygordon makes a good point in the wrong manner. We are taught to look both ways when crossing the street. Many of us grew up and/or live in areas with few/no cyclists. Over time, your mind adapts to this and realizes that it only has to look for cars when crossing a street. Your mind will filter out anything smaller than a car when you look to cross. It's really quite disturbing if you catch yourself in this trance.

You are totally right, starrygordon. I live uptown now and there aren't as many pedestrians to deal with, but it's pretty amazing how many people will just step right in front of a bike without looking. That sucks about your sideswipe -- I've been swiped by cars who haven't even known they touched me, and therefore just kept going. Of course, I've also had people pull their cars over and chase me in the street to do me bodily harm.

I lived in Chinatown for 4 years and that was pretty much the norm down there. Now, I am NOT saying that is what happened in this supposed incient on Grand Street -- nor was it right for the cyclist to leave -- but it is not outside the realm of possibility.

That being said, I still don't understand how it is possible to get out of a car that is in gear. As soon as you take your foot off the brake, it would start to move immediately if an automatic or would stall if a stick shift.

That driver that sideswiped you? It was Governor Paterson. How he got that temporary permit, no one knows...

"We all should get into our cars and run over the NYPD's children and their wives."

You must belong to Transportation Alternatives.

Since Jen Chung seems obsessed with this tragedy, when is she going to report on the Chinese woman who is still in hospital with serious injuries after being struck by a speeding cyclist three weeks ago in Chinatown? It's been in the Chinatown press.

To add insult to injury, the cowardly cyclist sped off - as is often the case in bike/pedestrian accidents, leaving this poor woman to foot all her medical bills nor with any legal redress against this felon.

Or don't Chinese people injured by bikes count?

Why are you bringing bikes into the equation? This story is about a driver who through disregard of safety let his van run over two children, killing them.

Bring up your beef with bikes in a post that actually mentions something about them, otherwise you just seem like a dick.

Gee, seems like I hit a nerve.

Perhaps it's because we're talking about two innocent little kids dying on the sidewalk, run over like roadkill, while you're kvetching about your personal gripe with cyclists.

IMO, "thefacts" is just bitching, nothing more.

This is a sad story about these two kids and the driver not being held accountable. So, "thefacts" comes up with another story without providing facts or so much as a date that it happened.

Go figure.

No, I don't dispute his story about someone getting hurt by a cyclist, bad things happen. The annoyance is that he seems hell bent on bringing up his hatred of bikes and cyclists to a story about two little children being killed by a van driver.

If the connection is Streetsblog, then he should realize that they are an advocacy group dedicated to making public spaces safer for both pedestrians and cyclists.

For now, I'd like to keep this thread about the godawful incident that resulted in two dead children and a van driver with no criminal culpability according to the city's eyes.

No, I don't dispute his story about someone getting hurt by a cyclist as he was very specific about it. The annoyance is that he seems hell bent on bringing up his hatred of bikes in general to a story about two little children being killed by a van driver.

If the connection is Streetsblog, then he should realize that they are an advocacy group dedicated to making public spaces safer for pedestrians and cyclists alike.

For now, I'd like to keep this thread about the godawful incident that resulted in two dead children and a van driver with no criminal culpability according to the city's eyes.

You want 'facts'? I'll give you 'facts'.

Read this email from the community activist who runs the ccrcnyc.com blog:

"Hi, I got a few details about the woman who was hit by a bicyclist last month. It happened in the last week of the month, and the poor woman was in hospital for something like three weeks including rehab. She may never be the same, as she has suffered nerve damage.

She was walking on Elizabeth near Kenmare (not Grand st as orign. reported) and she was hit by a biker who was traveling at high speed. Apparently she fell to the ground and blacked out, the biker left the scene.

The woman is a member of Lin Sing Association here on Mott St. and their members are united in their support for her. The president of Lin Sing is very troubled by this woman's severe injuries, as are his members."

Well, I am waiting for one cyclist advocate to show a modicum of sympathy for this woman as well as condemning this hit-and-run cyclist as quickly as you condemn hit-and-run motorists. Why am I not holding my breath?

What's the link to that story?

Jen,

To avoid a long post on Gothamist and to protect people's privacy, I have just sent you an email offline with all the detailed contact information of two Chinatown activists who can supply you with the details you will need.

One runs a neighborhood blog: www.ccrcnyc.blogspot.com = For News About Chinatown. Once he gets the story translated, he told me that he is going to upload it onto the blog.

The other is the president of Lin Sing Association, to which this poor woman belongs.

Thanks for your interest.

Oh, come on. You're asking for facts from "thefacts"? That's funny.

Back to this story, it seems that this lynch mob won't be happy until the driver commits suicide.

Wait for my response to Jen before you typically and bitterly mouth off.

Then wipe the egg from your face.

I think they might find some satisfanction with a charge of gross negligence. I think those folks who gathered there wished they would not have to be there at all. Automobile drivers in this city routinely kill people with impunity - it is sad and telling that our elected officials and law enforcement officials are incapable of demonstrating some spine, and continually fail to file charges against people who are responsible for killing pedestrians.

Morganthau could care less about pedestrians (or cyclists for that matter). He come from the era where "the car is king" and fancy, important people ride around town in cars and the proletariat-peons walk. On this matter he's a relic and thank G-d he's on the way out.

TKaisen wrote:

What do they want him charged with? It was an accident. Charging someone in the crime wouldn't be justice -- it would be revenge.

Since when has anyone ever been prosecuted for killing someone with a car in Manhattan? It happens every single day. The DA doesn't seem to care who was at fault or if there was negligence - if you lost to a car, you're just screwed. Or dead, rather.

It was negligence, and I believe you can charge someone with that. The driver deserves that for what they did, at least.

What do they want him charged with? It was an accident. Charging someone in the crime wouldn't be justice -- it would be revenge.

and make sure you didn't have a drink beforehand.

or make sure you hit drunks and use the blame the victim excuse.

it was an accident, the gas pedal was stuck.

If DA refuses to charge driver or the restaurant with

Manslaughter and reckless, negligence in operating a motor vehicle,

We all should get into our cars and run over the NYPD's children and their wives.

Just don't leave the scene of the accident.

It was an accident.