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A rendering of Broadway's future as a pedestrian-only boulevard in Times Square, courtesy DOT.
Various news outlets fanned out around Times Square to get comments from "men on the street" reacting to the news that, starting Memorial Day, Mayor Bloomberg will banish motor vehicles from Broadway, between 42nd and 47th streets and 33rd to 35th streets. Bloomberg says computer simulations determined that motorists will be able to cruise down Seventh Avenue 17% faster, and 37% more quickly up Sixth Avenue, once Broadway drivers stop interrupting traffic flow.
But random citizens, who presumably had little time to review the plan after it was announced yesterday, expressed dismay. Cab driver Hasem Zaid told CBS 2, "It's a bad idea you know, because the mayor wants to make life harder for working people." Speaking to the Post, air-conditioner repairman Tom Larsen opined, "He's nuts. He's creating more congestion. Streets are for cars, not picnic tables. It doesn't benefit anyone." But the Daily News tops them all by scoring an exclusive quote from the Naked Cowboy, who has dollar signs in his eyes: "The cars aren't adding anything, they're just driving by." Then there's reliably demagogic Post columnist Andrea Peyser, who wonders why Mayor Bloomberg "hates us so?"
For real New Yorkers - those of us who live, work and occasionally indulge in a cab ride home after enjoying a few too many - the plan to close off great swaths of this city from vehicular traffic is punishing, costly and downright mean. Now, those of us lucky enough to find a cab will be forced to take a puzzling series of detours that will jack up the price, the adrenaline and the blood pressure. Deliverymen, whom Bloomberg wanted to scar with congestion pricing, will wind up idling their engines in deep traffic to the point where Al Gore would not dare choke on city air.But elsewhere in the tabloid, reporters tested the $1.5 million plan by taking rush hour cab rides down Seventh Avenue and Broadway; even with Broadway open to vehicular traffic, the ride from 48th Street to 32nd down Seventh took only one minute longer than the Broadway trip, and cost less. Once Broadway's traffic is eliminated, Bloomberg argues Midtown will have "faster streets" because of longer green lights on Sixth and Seventh Avenues. Speaking to reporters yesterday, he said the current congestion "can't get worse. Have you ever tried to drive down Broadway? It's fundamentally something that you can't do."
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I like this idea. I work in Times Square and this would be a great solution to the absurd "X" of traffic at the crossroads.
::first!:: tee hee
Take it easy citizens of Mars.
It's a test, a study... if it doesn't work they'll revert back... It seems works very well in the flat iron and meat packing districts.
agreed.
True. I don't see how it will possibly work to reduce traffic (rather than causing much more of it)...but, hey, if it works it works. So long as they treat it as an experiment, don't drop a wad of cash putting up picnic tables or something, and are willing to admit failure and scrap the idea if it turns out to be a disaster, I've got no problem with giving it a shot.
They never reverse these ideas, whether they work or not.
That's not true, the double-decker West Side Highway idea failed and that was removed. ;P
"Works very well"
Man, have you been there at midnight?
It's a disaster. Ask the BID, the residents, the businesses.
Broadway has been a roadway since before the first Europeans set foot in America. It was a road used by the Indians going from lower Manhattan up north, hence its diagonal path.
The Twits at DOT have just reversed an ancient historic highway in a vain attempt to turn Broadway into the Damplatz.
Shame on them. You want Europe? Move to Europe!
Another piece of NY has just been sold down the river by Bloomberg. Welcome to the suburbs and another piece of mid-America intruding into the character of the Greatest City in the World.
All the suburbanites who like this must really be pleased. Fine. Now move back!
Any sane driver already knows to avoid Broadway like the plague. Unless you're above 59th street it's just not worth it to drive it.
Totally agreed! Driving through Times Square is just a bad idea—I'm guessing it's 40% filled with drivers who are gawking.
I worked in an office building right in Times Square until a year ago. Looking down from there, most of the time all you would see was yellow cabs, clogging the arteries. On the ground, of course it's the tourists clogging things up as they wander around in your way with their Big Gulps, looking up. Where do you get Big Gulps in Times Square? But I'm sure I've seen them. It's hellish. Not sure it will be any better under this new program. Prolly the foot traffic will just increase to fill the available space.
7-11 on 42nd btw. 8th & 9th
Now why would you say that?
should be easier to drive now that TRL is canceled.
I take the bus to BPC and it usually jams up at Herald Sq.
You can get Big Gulps at the 7-11 in hell's kitchen, 42 bet 8 and 9th aves.
They did this to state street in chicago, once one of the busiest shopping corridors in the country, and it immediately killed the area.
Face it, USA isn't Europe and closing off an artery like this will be bad for business.
It probably won't. First off, there will still be a major artery flowing through with side streets intersecting.
And with all due respect, this is New York City's Times Square, not State Street in Chicago. While any sane New Yorker avoids this area, it's tourist central and tourists will not go away because they can't take a cab down 7th Avenue. Tourists stay in the hotels of Times Square and they walk her streets.
If anything, this will allow more people into the area and be better for businesses.
Yeah, Matty. I have to agree with edEx also. Chicago is an interesting example but the majority of people in Chicago have cars. The majority of Chicago's suburban visitors drive into the city. It's the opposite in NYC. Also as edEx says, there will still be a grid of streets open to traffic through and around Times Square.
Maybe the bit of history you're missing is that when New York was established it WAS a European city it was DUTCH!
Chicago is an American city in that cars are essential, since that's the way it was planned.
New York was established, planned, laid out and fully populated before the automobile was invented. An island with only a dozen or so entrances and exits could not become a great city in today's car-dependent America.
Chicago was founded in 1833. The automobile was invented in Germany in 1885. To say Chicago was founded by Americans therefore it's built around the auto is just asinine.
And you're making it sound like the Dutch laid out Manhattan's streets. All the Dutch built was the tiny southern tip of the island. There was a huge wilderness left on Manhattan well into the 19th century, 200 years after the Dutch were booted out.
Quick question. Where do all the vehicles that now clog up Broadway go? Do they disappear?
The Naked Cowboy should put on some clothes and move out of town.
"Where do all the vehicles that now clog up Broadway go?"
The theory apparently is that they go to Sixth and Seventh, and the the simplified traffic patterns brought about by eliminating some complicated intersections will mean that those avenues can move even the increased traffic more efficiently than the current pattern can.
That doesn't sound completely unreasonable, but regardless of what computer simulations may have shown there's no way to how it will work with human drivers making decisions as to where to go without actually trying it.
I vote: Lawn Guyland!
I wish they would carve our from some of the pedestrian space a place for taxi's to pick-up and drop-off. Otherwise, I'm all for it. Although I'll miss the tourists braving the traffic to pose on the sliver of sidewalk in the middle of Times Square.
That's true -- I hadn't even thought of that. There is something iconic about standing in the middle of Times Square with cars and buses whizzing by on both sides. Sure, I'd like to stab most of the tourists I see every morning -- but I'd still hate to lose something that makes the city special to them.
Will they have bike lanes on Broadway? Can't forget those bikers.
Anyone who has been by Herald Square or Times Square knows that the reason traffic is so bad is b/c of the criss-cross traffic pattern. Downtown traffic at 7th has to wait for Broadway traffic and uptown traffic at 6th and Herald Square has to wait for Broadway traffic. I think this will definitely improve traffic flow. I also don't see how this could possibly be bad for business to have more pedestrians on the streets. People don't jump out of cab in Times/Herald Square to go shopping but if it was a friendlier place to walk around they would spend more time and money there.
But what happens to the drivers who come down Broadway? My guess is that they will have to take a cross-street east, then make a right turn onto Seventh -- but wouldn't that just move the congestion out of Times Square and onto cross-streets? And won't a large volume of cars trying to turn right onto Seventh create the same problems as waiting for lights in the square?
They've probably got a simulation showing how it would work -- but I'm not sure I understand it.
I assume most people headed downtown would bear right onto 7th at 46th. Not sure exactly how it will work but it really couldn't get worse coming down broadway into times square.
This makes me very happy and I am very proud that our city is stepping up and doing this. Let's ban cigs completely from being used in the city now too LOL.
By the way, does anyone know where we can give our approval of this to the powers that be?
they don't care what you think, and your approval means nothing. see 'term limits'.
I don't think this will be bad for business.
this will mean more tourists milling about in times square and walking to nearby destinations.
which way to applebees?
Exactly. Drivers don't go to Times Square. They go through Times Square. There's precious little parking, so it makes no sense for anyone to drive there. Especially with the convenient subway station. You notice of all the complainers in this and yesterday's post, none say that this will make it hard for them to get to Times Square, only that they think it would be harder to drive to some destination on the other side.
More space for pedestrian shoppers is always a good thing for business. More impulse buys that way. Has any driver ever suddenly decided he or she had to stop and buy something glimpsed in a store window as they streaked by?
What? You've never parked in front of Macy's to dash in for a food processor?
I can only hope that some of these businesses go under as a result of this traffic pattern. No one has any money anyways so why not change the flow of traffic?
Taxi drivers are probably pissed because Times Square was an opportunity for them to bilk more money out of tourists by driving through it. Anyone who lives here would tell them to avoid that area like the plague.
"Taxi drivers are probably pissed because Times Square was an opportunity for them to bilk more money out of tourists by driving through it."
Anyone who lives here would tell them to avoid that area like the plague.who has ever driven a cab will tell you you make more money getting the fares in and out, not sitting in traffic.
"Anyone whohas ever driven a cab will tell you you make more money getting the fares in and out, not sitting in traffic."
/...Sigh
I stand (or sit) corrected. So, the taxi drivers who are bitching about this are bitching just to bitch.
". So, the taxi drivers who are bitching about this are bitching just to bitch."
That presumes that this new plan will actually reduce congestion.
Remember that 7th avenue gets quite backed up as you get closer to cross streets for the tunnel... also tourists rarely understand the concept of walking a block to get a cab even going in their direction, to say nothing of walking a block because there is no place to get one.
Seriously, does anyone actually believe that people who were going to get a taxi on Broadway aren't going to walk 50 feet over to 7th Avenue now to get one? I can't see any way that this impacts taxi business at all. If it speeds up travel times, all the better - they can get more fares.
Broadway makes a left turn and a right turn at Union Square and it's no big hassle and certainly no detriment to taxi business. Would we prefer that Broadway ripped right through Union Square Park? Then there'd be nobody hanging out there to take a cab in the first place.
"Seriously, does anyone actually believe that people who were going to get a taxi on Broadway aren't going to walk 50 feet over to 7th Avenue now to get one?"
Tourists don't get it.
" I can't see any way that this impacts taxi business at all."
Have you ever driven a cab?
" If it speeds up travel times, all the better - they can get more fares".
And thats the question - those of us who have hacked or driven commercial vehicles in manhattan don't thinkit will speed up traffic. (if the prospective fares do walk over as you suggest, cabs that used to tie up broadway pulling over to drop/pick up fares will now ALL be doing it on 7th Avenue.
If it does help congestion it will be a pleasant surprise.
This is a good idea. Andrea Peyser not liking it makes it so.
I don't understand the quote "Once the Broadway traffic is eliminated" It's not going to e eliminated it's ALL going to be forced into 7th Ave. and is this REALLY the kind of thing the city needs to be spending $1.5mil on right now?? Somehow none of this is adding up to me.
This idea gets stupider the more I hear/read about it. The congestion caused on the adjacent avenues and streets will offset any gains in speed the midget mayor claims.
A key aspect of NYC is the traverse of Broadway across the island; without Broadway there are no 'squares' or 'circles'.
He's constricting the arteries of NYC thinking he can eliminate the need for the flow, instead we're just going to have a heart attack.
"A key aspect of NYC is the traverse of Broadway across the island; without Broadway there are no 'squares' or 'circles'."
Couldn't have said it any better myself. All the more reason to make traversing Broadway a continuous and pleasant experience instead of an insufferable one for the people who live on, work on, and visit Broadway on foot. And a great justification for turning the "squares" into actual destinations instead of just islands in a sea of automobile traffic passing through.
Peyser is a shrew. I'm all for trying this out. It will cut traffic because traffic in NYC expands to fill the space allotted to it. Allot less space and you'll have less space filled with traffic. The number of cars per square meter will remain the same, you'll just have less square meters for cars and more for people.
And where will the traffic go? Who gives a shit? Let it go back to New Jersey or wherever it came from. The cars that won't be going down B'way can't possibly make the surrounding streets worse because they're already saturated as it is.
The new apartment buildings in Manhattan and all over the city have parking garages in them, and that encourages people to drive.
People in older buildings in the city are discouraged from driving, because parking on the street is no fun.
In fact congestion pricing is only going to offset a small petcentage of the traffic to be generated by thousands of new cars in the streets of Midtown.
So Bloomberg is actually increasing congestion in the city by a huge amount.
But he realizes that it's the voter's perceptions of him that are important, so he is trying to "Greenwash" his legacy so he will be remember as "environmental Mike".
how will this affect boltbus, the chinatown buses and other buses that use broadway to get in and out of the penn station area?
I love how so many people the press quoted who are opposed to the proposal, for whatever reason, seem to make it about how Bloomberg wants to "scar" deliverymen or "make life harder for working people", as if he's sitting in a room somewhere concocting ways to hurt small businesses and working New Yorkers, and THIS is his secret plan. Election year, anyone?
This is a simple, intelligent plan to make Times Square a more pleasant experience. Don't reject this proposal because you don't like the mayor - that's asinine. Anybody who says better public space is bad for New Yorkers is either lying or severely confused.
I've heard this "small business" line before. Small businesses would close because of the Bus Rapid Transit on Fordham Road. Small businesses would be hurt and the city devastated by congestion because of Summer Streets. Little Italy shops are being killed by the Grand Street bike lane. Every time the city comes up with a transportation proposal, the papers go out and quote Joe Newsstand and Abdul the taxi driver who proclaim traffic will be a "nightmare" and it will "kill" business. You know what, this city's streets are getting a LOT nicer to walk, bike and spend time on and I don't see any of these catastrophic predictions coming true. Hush your noise and accept the fact that this proposal is great for New York.
where are the TREES!!!?
If this closing off Broadway at these locations is such a great idea so traffic can move faster, how about taking that property, which is seriously worth some good bucks, and put up affordable housing? No one would be thrown out of their spaces and the land is somewhat free so the city doesn't have to spend money to acquire it. It's a win win situation.
Patience. This is just an experiment right now. They can't go digging up Broadway until they know that it's not a disaster. Once they decide to make it permanent, then they can do changes that wouldn't cost a fortune to implement then another fortune to reverse.
That was a reply to Amanda Harlech.
Personally, I think this is a fantastic idea. Cars cant last forever, they served their place in society, but I hope this is the start of phasing them out completely. With the work being done at Masdar City (which will have a ban on automobiles), this can only mean good things for the future. I would love to see the whole island of manhattan banned of automobiles. The infrastructure and dense population would both allow for this to happen. All they would need to do is implement a new system called "PRT or Personal Rapit Transit", and this vision would not be that far off... There wouldnt even be a need for cabs...Think about what it would be like to walk through Times Square and not be pissed off because some tourist walks too damn slow...