Archbishop Dolan Meets New Yorkers

McCarthy, Egan, Dolan, etc. Are all American Catholics in-charge Irish? Cannot we have an Italian, Spanish or Polish prelate for change?

Virgil,

You make some good points...notably, that most of the American Catholic community--left, right and in-between--doesn't want William Donahue (sp?) to speak for them. He is, as you say, as bad a figurehead for a decent cause as is Michael Moore. And I completely agree that the Church, or anyone for that matter, is open to legitimate criticism. While there are more areas than one in which people could criticize the Church's leadership, the abuse crisis--and most notably, its handling by the bishops--is certainly one of those areas where the Church is legitimately criticized. That being said, I would still hold that it is okay in the eyes of many to slander Catholicism, its leaders and its congregation, in the media and popular culture of the day. Its fine to take issue and challenge the dogma or teaching of the church, but rarely is there much effort to understand it properly-- even in a rudimentary sense. Certain false assumptions are often made, and then these are criticized or made fun of, etc. In a sense, its a matter of perspective. Its good to have non-Catholics, like yourself (presumably, I don't know), who hold us to task and point out those criticisms to which we should respond, but as a Catholic, I can say that there is also the perspective of those of us who have to live daily with the media and the culture attacking the Church with assumptions and ideas that simply don't cohere with the reality of what our faith teaches or what Catholics practice. That is frustrating, and it is a reality.

I'm still a little confused as to how the criticism of the church translates into criticism of the congregation, but I'm probably being too literal; whhen someone attacks your family, your team, your town or your country, it feels like an attack on yourself. I'm not dismissing your point; but i guess I still don't see what the attack on the congregation is, unless it's on the belief system.

Maybe you could give some examples?

For what it's worth, I was raised by the unholy union of a jewish father and catholic mother, and grew up with some familiarity with the baggage and blessings of both those worlds.

I'm not a believer myself, and though i respect the faith of others, I sometimes joke about the rules of various organized religions, they way I joke about strict vegans or anyone who seems odd in comparison to my own incredibly subjective viewpoint.

But is that what you mean by prejudice? If so, I don't think I;d agree with that.

But maybe tyouy mean something else. I;ve heard about some evangelicals saying terrible things about catholics, but seems like more of an intertheological rivalry, rather than a wide societal bias.

# 11

Few Catholics "whine" about being a persecuted minority, per se. I think a lot of us do legitimately complain about being persecuted unjustly and being too easily misconstrued and judged. The Church is consistently misrepresented in the press, and when Catholics complain about that, I don't think that its quite accurate to say that they are "whining" about being a persecuted "minority." We complain about being a group for which it is socially acceptable to slander. A few days of positive press for a new archbishop in no way makes up for what are often daily inaccurate and misleading portrayals of the Church.

I hear this idea alot-- that Catholics are one of the few groups that it's okay to slander--but I don't agree. The perceptions and mis-perceptions in the media and general public are directed almost wholly toward the leadership of the institution, and have to do with issues of dogma, as well as the painful issue of sexual abuse. But this is directed toward the institution, not the members of the congregation. I'm not in any way implying that there aren't a whole lot of jerks out there who will unfairly malign Catholics, but the same is true for any bigot with a target. I just don't see this being equal to a widespread hatred of Catholic people, the way that someone would hate asians or blacks or gingers (damn their fiery locks).

That said, it's a fact that most catholics aren't whining at all; they're living their lives as best they can, like everyone else. But until the American catholic community stops letting William Donohoe speak for them, that's the impression that will be left. He's as bad a figurehead for a decent cause as Michael Moore.

Archbishop Dolan FONDLES New Yorkers.

AGAIN.

Yay! No more creepy pedo voice Egan. The dude's speaking voice sounds like that dude who child molested dudley and Arnold on the very special episode of Different Strokes.

The next time some Catholic whines that they are a persecuted minority, remember this detailed and breathless coverage. The Catholic church is the only religious institution that gets this kind of *positive* treatment as a matter of course. (Hey look, it's the Pope!)

Yeah—check out the .

Years ago, the joke (truth?) was that the biggest landowners in NYC were NYU, Columbia and the Catholic Church. I need to dig up more details.

A survery I read a few years back dispelled that urban legend. The largest landowners are actually individuals or families (mostly Jewish). Helmsley, Rudin, Tisch, Ratner et alia.

The Catholic Church is down a few notches on the list, and most of that is hospitals and schools. Who has a problem with someone owning hospitals?

The Church paid for this land from the contributions of immigrants, as did the Jewish religious institutions, and the smaller Protestant churches. So, I don't see the gripe about how much land anyone owns. It was paid for free and clear. Some haters might whine it is tax-exempt but so are schools, hospitals, and all churches in this country. If you don't like it, change the Tax Code.

The only church not to pay for any of its immense holdings, is the Episcopal, particularly Trinity Parish, which holds countless acreage downtown.

They didn't pay a dime, but got it from Queen Anne who got it from the British army and navy, who killed a lot of Dutchmen in 1664 to obtain the land that Peter Minuet purchased from the Indians.

Trinity also evicted thousands of residents around 1900 to build all those office buildings downtown and on the West Side.

So, if you want to rant on a religious institutions, start with Trinity, which obtained it from the murder of Dutchmen and the eviction of poor immigrants. There is a special place in hell for Trinity.

I wish we _could_ change the tax code. I don't see any reason why religious institutions should be tax-exempt: If they're meaningful to adherents, they'll succeed via donations -- which is as it should be.

Tax exemption enables too many declining churches and religious institutions to limp along, waste their effort/assets, become barely-there "private chapels," and ignore warning signs. So by the time they go under, it's the 11th hour (like: majorly-expensive structural problem, or they're down to 15 people and can't afford any programs) -- and they either don't have a Plan B, or now want/need _more_ taxpayer help for exterior repairs.

From a taxpayer standpoint, it's irrelevant whether the property was ethically paid for, stolen, or dropped from the sky. What _is_ relevant is how much the exemptions have cost taxpayers over the years, as their taxes were upped to make up for exemptions.

Oh good. Another Dolan in NY. Maybe he'll do for Catholicism what the other Dolan has done for the Rangers and Knicks.

Religion is just plain bullshit.

All of this makes me glad I am an Episcopalian. Hooray for a church run by a woman.

And founded upon the testicles of King Henry the Eighth.

Dolan? Will all masses now be simulcast on MSG?

I wish the papers would greet this guy the way they greeted Joe Torre back in '96. Instead of the warm and fuzzy "Man of Mass Appeal" headline, why not something like "In Over His Head" or "The End of Catholicism in NYC?"

He doesn't look Italian.

I think the Mets need him more.

true... but the Mets are not in his diocese. Queens is part of the Diocese of Brooklyn.

Ha!

Of course he would glom onto the Yankees. Typical.