L Trains Run Entirely By Computer, Starting Tomorrow

Funny how some commenters whine about everything yet know nothing about how things work.

While I agree the significance of token booth clerks is debatable, the drivers of the trains, the conductor and the dispatchers do a very complicated dance to make the subways work. Seriously. They have to run the entire antiquated system with educated guesswork, because the system cannot track the precise location of the train within a safe distance. Most lines, at the most, can only tell if a train was at the stop before. But even that's still done manually, by a human. This means for the dispatcher, stops that are far apart can only reliably tell that one train was at the previous stop X minutes ago. Experience and training is the only thing stopping the trains from ramming into each other at 50mph, not computers. Considering the volume of trains running through the city during rush hour, this is an amazing feat.

The L-Train is the only line that has been completely overhauled to be able to sense the precise location of the train. That's what "automated train" means. The dispatcher no longer has to take an educated guess of where the train is, the computer takes care of it. This means a lot more trains can go one after another during rush hour, like in London for instance. This will mean less people holding the door, as the sign above will say "next train 1 minute" instead of "next train 10 minutes."

The thing is, the whole system would be modernized like this if people paid for it. In Europe, their taxes are higher, their fares are higher, their subways don't run after hours, or their subway systems are smaller than ours.

I just got back from japan and taiwan...subways in asia put the nyc system to shame!! hopefully there will be more practical improvements than just computer trains...and I hate the endless fare hikes!

ONWARD & UPWARD

One train's automated

Say MTA releases

With more to follow suit

Just like fare increases.

So, who holds the train when there's just too many people or the movement getting on and off the train is slower than usual?

Well, maybe if trains did run on schedule and people was certain that another one is coming in 4 minutes, they'll be more willing to let the train go. Not like the F train during morning rush hour, I always have to wait 10-15 minutes!!!!!

If there's no one on the stick, I'm not riding it.

www.forgotten-ny.com

""This is a safe system with proven technology." At least until it becomes self-aware.""

And starts touching itself?

from what i heard, the reason why singapore started banning chewing gum was because some kids stuck their chewing gum on subway / MRT door, and since their subway was all computer automated, the door detected foreign object and wouldnt close up, and supposedly brought the whole system down for few hours.

a week or so later, the government banned chewing gum.

Well, that's fucking interesting, man. That's fucking interesting...

Once, riding the airtran (which as most know is automated and without a motorman of any human kind) from jfk to jamaica station, I noticed the train was moving slower and slower. It would speed up after a moment only to slow even more. This went on for about three minutes and while it did I could see airtrans on the opposite track slowing and stopping completely. Eventually the "tran" I and others were riding stopped completely. On the opposite track an Airtran pulled up and also stopped. Both trans were on the stretch of track above the Van Wyck Expressway. About fifteen minutes passed before a line of men approached walking along the track walkway. They opened the door from the outside, entered and drove the train manually. I assume we would have never gotten off of there without human intervention.

So L train riders pack rat repellent and waterproof uggs or converse, cause the walk through a subway tunnel under the East River's a stank wet bitch.

do you know anyone who's walked across the east river tracks?

Back in the 1960s they attempted some sort of automatic train on the 42nd Street Shuttle. The train mysteriously *cough*TWU*cough* caught fire damaging the Grand Central shuttle station and was scrapped.

There are two modes in which these trains can be run. Automatic Train Protection Mode allows the train to be operated normally, except that the system will limit speeds and make sure that safe distance is maintained between trains. If there's a work crew on the tracks, additionally, that will be "in the system" and the train will be limited to 10 mph.

in Automatic Train Operations mode the operator closes the doors but the train runs automatically between stations. The operator has access to an emergency brake.

For the time being there'll still be both an operator and a conductor during the times of day that there now is, as required by the contract between the MTA and TWU. The L is already OPTO (one person train operation) late night and on weekends.

Great, something else I have to worry about besides the insane homeless woman who wears fatigues and says she was in the military who yells at people between Lorimer and Bedford.

I for one am happy about this. I am sick of my lorimer to 8th avenue commute taking 30 min in the morning.

The less interaction with lazy, surly transit employees, the better.

"In 2008, the Skynet MTA Funding Bill is passed. The system goes on-line February 24th, 2009. Human decisions are removed from strategic defense. The L train begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. In a panic, they try to pull the plug. As a response, the L train launches its missiles against the targets in New Jersey."

Are you talking best case scenario here eeyartee?

humanity's fading relevance

hahahahhaahah

Don't you mean:

Bwahahaha!!!

Seems like a Bad idea to me. The more complicated the system, the easier to foul up.

If someone does get injured, do they do a drug test on the train's Computer?

Just wondering.

So the train will have a motorman and a conductor as well as the computer controlled system. I see big cost savings in this plan.

Vancouver is a lot different than NYC. The populace out there are basically intelligent and not many are on the "welfare bandwagon, sue them for what they got trip." The Airtrain users are also a bit different from the "normal" populace that use the subways.

Snoopy dropping the bait, will anyone bite?

Guys...the same two crew members (motorman and conductor) will still be on the train like they always are. Doors will still be operated by a person so nothing will change operationally there.

Also, the motorman can also pull the emergency brake if he spots something on the tracks, another reason he's still in the front. He'll do nothing 99% of the time but will be able to act in case there's something the computer cannot handle.

Sleeping 99% of the time.

Nah, he's repeatedly pushing a button that does nothing 99% of the time.

I for one welcome our new robot subway overlords.

A conductor will still also be in the middle of the car to close the doors. Really the only benefit of this whole thing is run the trains more efficiently (aka closer together).

A conductor will still also be in the middle of the car to close the doors. Really the only benefit of this whole thing is run the trains more efficiently (aka closer together).

so what happens when a fight breaks out or someone gets sick and you gotta intercom for help- then what?

L train service has been so spotty and unreliable in recent years that I have scant hope that even our robot overlords can make it better. But at least they won't go on strike.

Vancouver, BC has a whole city of computer-operated trains, made by the company that makes the AirTrain.

how will the computers know if someone's lying on the tracks or if a baby carriage got stuck in the doors?

Luckily the robot overlords will not stop for drunks anymore; the robot trains will keep the schedule whether or not a drunk is on the tracks.

Don't expect them to stop for drunken trash on the tracks.

Million dollar payouts for all!

Almost all European transit runs completely automated.

MTA own figures show the average motorman makes $63,000. Oh, they also get to retire with a fully funded state pension, pay $0 towards health care, and have that health care for life.

That's just not true. The vast majority of Euro transit is manually operated, and unionized. Some lines have ATO, but the driver is still involved.

Line 14 in Paris and London's DLR are notable exceptions. Line 14 has no driver at all; but it also has platform screen doors so there's no chance of anyone falling in the tracks.

Great. A limitless amount of people sticking their foot in the door to hold up the trains even longer. I can just picture the computer trains sitting in a station for 5 mins waiting until the doors are clear.

We need to do this Soviet Union style. You hold up the trains, you die.

...or lose a limb.

You mean we won't hear the conductor get on the PA system and yell at people holding the door? That was always soooooooo entertaining.

Will these operate like the BART cars in the bay area? If so I'm sure the idiots at the MTA will manage to screw it up.

Good point MT, as I remember this being a big point of the TWU during the strike 3 years ago.

I've never been to Paris, but I hear their Metro runs mostly on computer. Unfortunately, something the Frenchies do a lot better than the Americans is build trains effectively and efficiently, so I doubt the MTA could pull off the same feat without screwing up.

Only Line 14 in French is driven by computers; the rest are manual. Line 14 uses the same technology though (it's German.)

Entire DC subway is automated.

Look at the great speeds and acceleration. The DC subway is like a bat out of hell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhSaHsG6I6s&feature=channel_page

MTA sucks.

I'll attest to that. The trains run really close together. It made getting to the inauguration really simple.

Getting out, however . . .

Unfortunately, something the Frenchies do a lot better than the Americans is build trains effectively and efficiently, so I doubt the MTA could pull off the same feat without screwing up.

New MTA cars are all Kawasakis, right?

The R143 trains, the only type used on the L, are built by Kawasaki. The newer R160A model, found on the N/Q/W are built by Alstom, a French company. The R160B, which is more or less identical, is constructed by a joint venture between Alstom and Kawasaki.

Aren't the motormen being left on the trains to cater to the TWU's increasingly shrill fight to avoid total irrelevance?

Yes, they will remain on board in case of a system malfunction or there is a work crew on the tracks.

In normal operation, all they have to do is push a button every 20 seconds to prove they are still alive and that's it.

I want that job.

There's that. But there's also the problem that they've never tested this thing under real world conditions, and they need someone up there to make sure the robot trains don't start bouncing into each other, at least for now.