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The NYCLU filed a lawsuit yesterday on behalf of a Brooklyn man who says the NYPD has stopped him in the subway and searched his bag an excessive number of times because he looks Middle Eastern. 32-year-old Jangir Sultan was born in Brooklyn, where he currently resides, but he accuses NYPD officers of racial profiling, stopping him 21 times over three years. Police began searching subway riders' bags at checkpoints in 2005 in the wake of the London subway bombings, but the department insists the checks are race-neutral and conducted randomly.
Sultan, whose parents are from Kashmir, claims he didn't object to being searched at first, but when he learned that his friends and colleagues were seldom stopped, he began to take offense. After the 13th stop, he started reporting the searches to the Civilian Complaint Review Board. "It was embarrassing," he tells the Daily News. "Did I look like someone who would blow something up? Getting all this attention from the NYPD was a little intimidating." He says he hasn't been stopped and searched since June 2008, around the time he began writing down officers' names and badge numbers.
The NYCLU argues that because cops are supposed to stop, say, every 25th person, the likelihood that Sultan would be stopped 21 times in three years is about 1 in 165 million. The suit also contends that because officers are prohibited from recording any demographic information about people they stop, they're "left free to engage in racial profiling, and the department ensures that it will not know about such unconstitutional behavior." Sultan tells Newsday the searches have caused lingering anxiety: "Even now when I'm entering a subway station, my heart tightens. Any time I see an officer, I feel very uncomfortable."
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I'm white and get searched all the time. Maybe I'm the token white guy.
They're not racial profiling, that's a crock!
Insurance Companies racially profile... now that's the truth Ruth!
i'm white, i carry a messenger bag every time i ride the subway, and i've never been stopped.
Good Job NYPD!!!
I think everyone from Kashmir should be stopped, regardless of my affinity for Led Zeppelin.
I'm a cracker and I was stopped 6 times last year, maybe it's because I'm tall. Makes sense, last time I checked the London subway bombers were all tall brooklyn natives.
I absolutely believe that the "War on Terrorism" is over, we won, and that the threat of further incidents is nonexistent. And yes, I would bet my life on this, and the lives of my family members.
Racial profile where it's warranted.
I don't recall any blonde, blue eyed 9/11 hijackers.
Should they waste time shaking down old ladies and taking milk from babies, like the TSA does?
Oh how quickly you forget our homegrown Tim McVeigh.
McVeigh
Nichols
Kaczynski
Mario Buda
The Weathermen (mostly white hippies)
The SLA (mostly white hippies)
The ELF (mostly white hippies)
The Atlanta Olympics guy
I stand corrected.
Proceed to search everyone....even out in BFE.
Only blacks and mexicans get arrested for summonses in the subway, whites get endless "warnings". NYPD only serves Staten Island.
If a 6' tall irish blue eyed guy flew a plane into a building, id expect to get searched all the time too. It sucked to be Japanese during WWII and it sucks to be middle eastern now. Our over sensitivity as a nation will be our downfall.
Under your logic shouldn't it have sucked to have been of German descent during WWII? Or Italian?
Indiscriminate profiling of any kind is dumb especially when these stop and search tactics have been shown to be highly ineffective in preventing terrorism.
Under your logic shouldn't it have sucked to have been of German descent during WWII? Or Italian?
His logic? How about FDR's logic?
Okay, under FDR's logic too. Doesn't make it any different.
Im sure that if a blonde haired blue eye talking in his "nine" saying, flem throwing voice ran around during the war he would have been persecuted as well. the only difference is that they werent put in camps for their safety.
"...the only difference is that they werent put in camps for their safety."
Pure absurdity. I would laugh at your ignorance if it weren't so fucking scary.
would you have felt better if i put Safety in " "? The fact of the matter is is that there is a group of people out there to get us and kill us and blow up our buildings and terrorize our children. Those people dont look like Enzo the Baker or olivia newton john! Simple reasoning being; it narrows down the search. I stare at a vacant space in the ny skyline everyday of where there used to stand 2 buildings. What are we to do to stop it from happening again? not ask the profiled to open their trench coat? Big friggin deal! This war on terror is far from over and its people like you that are hampering the efforts of others trying to make us and this city safe.
HA! They kind of SHOULD profile, but not exactly racially - but if you're an idiot enough to think wearing a turban or huge ugly clothes makes you good then too bad
...because you know, all those 9/11 terrorists wore turbans and "huge ugly clothes". Oh no, wait, they didn't.
FAIL.
fail what?
"Even now when I'm entering a subway station, my heart tightens. Any time I see an officer, I feel very uncomfortable."
there's your problem, buddy. the cops smell your fear. look 'em in the eye and say "forget you" and turn around next time they try to search you.
Good point. If the cops are varying from at times from the random nature of the checkpoints (which they're not supposed to do, but for the sake of argument let's assume that maybe once in a while they do something they're not supposed to do), looking like you're afraid that they're going to stop you probably guarantees that it'll happen.
21 times in a year???? stop crying, seriously. that's my 2-3 month tally and i am white. you should probably thank them for doing such a great job too...i do.
Learn to use other entrances to the station, or commute outside of rush hour. Or move to a poor neighborhood, the searches are only done in upscale areas, every day, same time, same place, each morning.
Is this true? It makes sense. I wondered how I have never been stopped. I take at least 4 different 2-3 train rides a day, always have some huge bag and I have never been stopped. Not once.
I am white.
How many times you have or haven't been stopped isn't really relevant unless compared with how many times you've passed through a checkpoint.
If they're there it's very obvious. Two or three uniformed cops standing behind by a table set up near an entrance. Which of course is why it would very easy just to turn around and choose another entrance. Or target.
Should have said, set up near the turnstiles. Really there'd be no problem for a terrorist wanting blowing up a station even with a checkpoint there as long as they didn't go through fare control.
And in places like Iraq, how many suicide bombers have done exactly that? When stopped at a checkpoint or spotted by security/military, they set off their bomb.
The searches are a useless waste of resources. I'm a white male, who was getting searched nearly every time I tried to enter my local station.
You know what I started to do? Enter the other side of the station to avoid the police. If I can do that, so can a terrorist with a bomb.
I've also seen cops searching people leaving the station. What is the point of that...if someone was going to set off something, wouldn't they have done it already?
what is the purposes of these searches? as the above poster you just use another entrance to avoid the search. what a waste of time and money. it just to feed off people's terrorism frenzy and justified more of our money wasted and to turn NYC into a police state that imprisoned its own city in fear,.
6 figures after overtime remember
They search me all the time, I have a big bag I keep my camera in that they love to search.
You can tell them you don't want to be searched, only problem is, you can't go into the subway there. Seems silly to me, all you have to do is walk to another entrance usually -- how does that protect anyone with ill intent?
Also they usually have their big NYPD van's parked right outside the subway entrance, a bit obvious don'tcha think?
It's all just to make us afraid. You can't catch terrorists by randomly searching people entering the subway. Both statistical analysis and historical data prove this. Not to mention, if said terrorist saw cops as he entered the subway, he could just leave, walk down the street and enter the next stop. People who are scared are more likely to let the government control them until suddenly they realize they have no rights left, but by then, it's too late.
Oh yeah, and isn't the whole point of terrorism to provoke fear? Therefore, if you are afraid of the terrorists, you've already lost.
The stupid thing is that "they" are always trying to prevent the last thing that happened from happening again when it's the NEXT thing we should be worrying about. If we want to worry about such things, that is. Like, for how many more years will we have to remove our shoes to board a plane? It's absurd.
Indeed. If "the terrorists" were anywhere near as numerous, determined and resourceful as some people claim, we would have been fucked long ago.
This doesn't mean that I think terrorism doesn't exist or that we shouldn't be wary. But we simply cannot prevent truly random attacks without a radical restructuring of our society. Cops at the subway? Okay, walk into Macy's. Boom.
Accused? They should be commended!
Terrorism is being committed by people of middle-eastern decent. Not swedes, or japanese...
If a middle-eastern person is carrying a bag and looks a bit suspicious, then hell ya, search him. What are these overly 'politically correct' people thinking??? We're they not in NY the last 8 years?
The bag search program is a complete waste of resources. It's nothing but theatrics.
For a rational and non-alarmist take on security, Bruce Schneier's always worth a read. Here's what he had to say about this program:
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/07/searching_bags.html
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/08/random_bag_sear_1.html
It is indeed a complete waste their time and your tax dollars.
I've been searched once. Every other time I politely tell the officers, "No thanks" and then leave the station only to reenter down the street. This PATRIOT act crap has got to go.
I'm white and the cops seem to love searching my gym bag. I imagine it must be a very pleasant job to have. Blech!
Last I knew it was a bunch of guys who looked Middle Eastern that blew the WTCs up, correct?
There's no such thing as racial profiling. The cops are simply doing their jobs.
This guy needs to quit crying like a baby about it. Lots of people are stopped and checked. The safety and well being of the majority of Americans comes first.
Amen
For you who have no memory except 9/11... crackers are the biggest terrorists and murderers on the planet. That's why we call you devils. Bag searches will save no one. If you don't let them in the country it won't happen. Bag searches are just another way for racists to impose their will on innocent citizens. If crackers committed 9/11 would you profile other crackers. I think not you hypocrites.
I love how some can just throw out "crackers" and its okay but if we made a derogatory statement you'd crucify a mutha f*%@er.
I'm white, and I know VERY few whites - and a LOT of nonwhites - who've been searched. NYPD have skipped me even when I looked like death-&-villainy warmed over and was carrying bulky backpacks or peculiar baggage.
Common-sense wise:
-- We HAVE had 'white terrorists' (McVeigh, Nichols, et al)
-- Mideast-extremism sympathizers can come in ANY color or ethnicity, as can me-too crazies.
-- From a terrorists's viewpoint: The smartest bet would be to use Anglo-looking operatives, or to pack an explosive device into some (unwitting) blonde's wheel-on bag.
"NYPD have skipped me even when I looked like death-&-villainy warmed over and was carrying bulky backpacks or peculiar baggage"
Just to clarify because I lot of people seem to misunderstand this program, what you look like or what type of bag you're carrying isn't supposed to make any difference at all. The searches are supposed to be random, so at each checkpoint there's a number of people who can pass without being checked and then they check someone. At a low-volume it might be every 10th or 12th bag-carrier who gets checked; at a busy station it might be every 25th or 30th.
I'm not saying that it's necessarily done that way in practice, because there's no way to know whether they aren't actually making some judgment and stopping anyone they want to, but the "random" method above is the only one that courts have held to be constitutionally acceptable.
Of course, if while in the process of making random checks they see something "suspicious" that would justify a stop-and-search in any other circumstance, they can still do it. So if the guy in front of you just got a random check but while you approach they see that it looks like you might have a gun stuck in the waistband of your sweatpants, you can be stopped.
Never stopped and I'm the type they should be profiling.
just look at my comments. I got nothing to lose.
don't put anything in your bag and be cool.
they can't body search you unless they have reason to.
of course, it's all "suppose to be random".
criminal profiling is not the same as racial profiling; if muslims would stop proclaiming their intent to kill us infidels then we could leave them alone.
Keep Gitmo Open!!
Addendum: Sharpshoota is right.
These sloppy random-subjective searches won't save anyone. They just give the "appearance" of security in exchange for taxpayers' money. (It's like the cop cars on bridges: They'd catch a DUI, or a van with a missile on its roof - but not some explosives-packed SUVs.)
The searches aren't even a deterrent. A terrorist would plan ahead, not just amble into some usually bag-searched station and hope for the best (worst). As Pete (2/20, 12:16) said, you can evade NYPD just by choosing other stations, entrances, and times.
Exactly... Also, let's say someone was strapping a bomb and going down to the subway in rush hour. Even if the cop stops them... they would just instantly detonate it like they do at checkpoints in Iraq, Israel and the like. You can't stop terrorists once they are hear. You must foil plots before they are hatched.
Stop with the tax payer bull. The cops are getting paid either way. If theyre doing searches or if theyre walking the street.
"Taxpayers' money" means "Home Security $$ - somehow" - as if those expenditures are really keeping us safe where we live (and where things are most likely to happen).
Just stop and search anyone wearing too much cologne. Problem solved.
jayclay said: "the "random" method above is the only one that courts have held to be constitutionally acceptable."
I'm well aware of that. But the random method (checking every 12th or 20th person) leaves much leeway - as in "who's counting, and keeping unfudgeable records thereof?"
And as you note, they also can break pattern to do a stop-and-frisk.
That's a lot of wiggle room.
jayclay also said: "looking like you're afraid that they're going to stop you probably guarantees that it'll happen."
So they'd nab those who are cop-phobic (and perhaps cop-phobic for a good reason, even if innocent).
But potential perps with nerves of steel would walk through ... if they were dumb enough to enter at a bag-check station.
Yep... I certainly wasn't arguing that it's a good approach or in any way a useful or effective approach. Just clarifying what's supposed to be done and what can be done, as well as speculating as to what's probably actually done.
Really it's only more "security theater."
being nervous is not a reason for a stop.
even cops get nervous on the stand when they have 50 or so strangers watching and listening to them recite their script.
do they still have public speaking as a HS or College course? and, is Toastmasters still around?
god, I'm dating myself.
moorecor replied to comment from jibbly: "Those people dont look like Enzo the Baker or olivia newton john!"
I'm sure that they have some less "profileable" members.
If it worked for them, they'd find, and use, Newton-John lookalikes.
I see more cops at these checkpoints stopping young women. They flirt giggle and then go back to leering at women or bullshitting amongst themselves. Good idea-lousy execution...
I'm betting if there's a next attack, it'll be done by Chechans.
Those dudes are all over Iraq.
I'm female, young, white, and cute. I get stopped quite frequently (but I think it's just because I'm female, young, white, and cute)!
And I always make sure to thank them.
This Guy doesn't have problems.
I'm an Irish doctor, living in London.
I take the tube (London underground) to work, every day.
I'm over 6 foot, and when was my hair was a bit longer, and curly, I looked like, in retrospect, quite possibly the most stereotypical IRA para known to man :L
So, I got stopped.
A lot.
7 times in one month, out of 22 working days.
Admittedly this was shortly after 7/7, but I don't bring a backpack to work.