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Many a straphanger has taken heat for pulling out their point and shoot cameras in the subway system, but now an off-duty MTA worker has been arrested by the NYPD's transit cops for photographing the underground. Carlos Miller reports on the charges made against 30-year-old Robert Taylor, who has been with the MTA for three years and actually cited section 1050.9 (c) of the Rules of Conduct to the arresting officers, which state that photography is allowed under certain conditions, all of which he met.
Still, he was handcuffed and locked in a holding cell for photographing an incoming train at the Freeman Street station in the Bronx. He posted his story on SubChat, where he wrote that an officer "yelled to me just as I was getting on the train to leave....he asked for ID, I showed him and he proceeds to tell me I'm not supposed to be taking pics...I told him that's not true...on the Transit Authority's rules of conduct it says we are, the sergeant tells me their rules and TA's rules are different....I told him, if you feel I'm in the wrong, give me a summons and I'll see everyone in court."
Turns out he was charged with three things: unauthorized photography, unreasonable voice/disorderly conduct and impeding traffic. We contacted the NYPD to get their rules for photographing in the subway system, but have yet to hear back.
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Ohh this is good, I would like to see how this gets resolved so maybe photographers will be harassed less in the future.
L
New York's Finest and their made up laws
seriously. where are these super secret laws?
Obviously their concern is anti-terrorism. But as with other areas of interest, the NYPD is spotty. While that cop was busting this dude, another may have gone down there snapping away at will. There should be a registry for photogs and badges issued so they aren't bothered.
The problem with that approach is it can lead to the implication that anyone shooting without a badge is an evildoer.
...And someone could wear a phony badge and have nefarious intentions. No easy answer here.
"There should be a registry for photogs and badges issued so they aren't bothered."
There are NYPD-issued press credentials that already serve that purpose for people who qualify for them. But that whole pesky Bill of Rights thing means that any of us should be able to take pictures in the subway or anywhere else where it isn't a legitimate security risk. You shouldn't need badges and "papers," and you shouldn't have to submit to the government investigating you beforehand.
Wear badges? Better yet we can all have a domestic passport or carnet that can be produced on demand to show that we are where we are supposed to be. Then we can get domestic visas that allow us to travel from one place to another. And all the good police man has to say is "Can I see your papers please?"
The only trouble I ever get from taking pictures in the subway system is from obviously racist creeps calling out to me as they go to their mediocre way to their pathetic offices or homes: "plotting your next terrorist attack?"
Never had any objection from the authorities. (I take pics for use in illustrations sometimes).
I don't blame the cops for the fact that you have to be an idiot to join NYPD.
this is the new quality of life stuff
they're cracking down on along with the homeless.
he should have a hidden mic on him, even the new
ipod touch/phones support recording.
"unreasonable voice/disorderly conduct and impeding traffic"?
Um, for answering their questions?? Huh?
So, to those officers, taking a photo of an oncoming train is a crime?
What about in a crowded train? The escalator?
Am I a hardened criminal? What about an NYPD Helicopter? Granted, it was in the Blue Sky, but in the name of "Security", I wonder if those officers would arrest me?
Just wondering...
dear officers: when someone can cite chapter and verse of the applicable regulations which you are not correctly upholding, it's probably not a good idea to arrest them.
Unfortunately, that's exactly when you are liable to be arrested for appearing smarter than them, which is no big feat.
Unreasonable voice/disorderly conduct
Note to all civilians: If you try to debate a cop, this is what they will charge you with in your arrest.
Yep, that 1st amendment is sooooo unreasonable...
Can't wait to see what his lawyer does.
Not really. Mouthing off to a cop is perfectly legal, and one of the top brass said as much a few weeks ago when he was asked by a reporter if swearing at a cop was illegal. He stated that it was not. It becomes disorderly conduct if you create a public alarm or disturbance.
THIS AIN'T TRUE. I HAVE BEEN STOPPED BY THE COPS FIVE TIMES. EACH TIME I WAS A SARCASTIC DICK, THEY LET ME GO. THE ONE TIME I WAS POLITE, I SPENT THE NIGHT IN JAIL.
COPS ARE LIKE BITCHES. THEY TALK BIG, BUT WHAT THEY REALLY WANT IS TO BE PUT IN THERE PLACE.
What?? I can't hear you! Speak up, dammit!
wow. just unbelievable.
Why doesn't somebody organize a Mass Photo Shoot on the subway? Just let me know the day and I'll bring my DSLR, with my biggest most noticeable lens too.
While we are at it we should do at the George Washington bridge too. I have dozens of pictures taken on the bridge pre-9/11 but all of a sudden one can not photograph the city or the Hudson from the bridge. However, one can still photograph all sections of the bridge, including the underside, from both the Manhattan and Jersey parks underneath.
Bureaucrats are idiots!
The "no photography" signs were removed from the GWB months ago. Perhaps the Port Authority rethought their silly restriction?
I've also noticed that the no photography decals have recently disappeared from Pinkberry's windows.
section 2150.4 (a)
No civilian may debate, 'show up' or otherwise attempt to trump an NYPD officer in the line of blatantly creating an imaginary crime with which to charge you
NYPD = Thin-skinned pussies.
This is such bullshit.
You don't need new photos to plot "terrorist attacks" when there are THOUSANDS that have been available for years.
Anyone remember this?
http://gothamist.com/2007/06/29/city_proposes_l.php
And how exactly is a photo of an oncoming train going to assist in planning a terrorist attack?
It won't. After searching the hideouts of the 9/11 hijackers, the London and Madrid train bombers, Tim McVeigh, the '93 WTC bombers, and every other Al Qaeda attacker, not a single reconnaissance photograph has ever been found.
"the sergeant tells me their rules and TA's rules are different"
And under what authority can the NYPD have "their" rules? The MTA's rules of conduct are enforceable under sections 1203-a(3) and 1204(5-a) of the Public Authorities Law. The police department doesn't have any authority to make up their own set of rules and apply them in the subway.
argghghgghgh!
I do believe NYPD and MTA rules differ, in practice if not in actuality; cops are trained to investigate what they believe is suspicious, while MTA has made it clear photography is permitted. I never take my camera out now if a cop is anywhere near, in a subway or not.
www.forgotten-ny.com
"I do believe NYPD and MTA rules differ, in practice if not in actuality; cops are trained to investigate what they believe is suspicious, while MTA has made it clear photography is permitted."
Cops are certainly free to investigate. That's not the problem. The problem is that they then cited him for something that's not illegal. There's no law on the books in New York that makes it illegal to take photos in the subway system under any circumstances. The MTA has the authority to make a rule prohibiting it; the Public Authorities Law gives their "rules for conduct" the strength of state law (of course whether such a rule would later be struck down as unconstitutional would remain a question, but still it would be a law until that happened).
But the NYPD can't make up their own "rules" and enforce them as law. Unlike the MTA, they simply don't have legal authority to do that.
Yes the NYPD can make up its own rules.
Your so called "rights" only exist in the court room bitch.
This is absolutely outrageous! This officer is either a total nitwit or a liar (could be both). He is an arrogant SOB, though. I'm thoroughly disgusted by this.
I'm all for a Mass Photo Shoot on the subway. I'm for anything that gives this event some publicity. The public should be aware of what's going on.
March 7th is the birthday of Joseph Nicéphore Niépce who made the first long lasting photograph in 1826. That isn't far off and would make a good day for it. It's also a Saturday, so most people would not be working. Any other day would be fine, too.
Maybe just a Bully? It happens...
I think we only differ in terminology.
If only just a single officer were involved in this case. If you read the article on carlosmiller.com and follow the links to the original story on subchat.com you will see that two officers and a Sargent were involved in making this arrest. This goes well beyond one cop - it goes to the heart of NYPD policy and systematic violations of the rights and freedoms granted to us by law.
I understand that the NYCLU is currently suing the NYPD on behalf of a photographer who was harassed a year ago. It is about time that this was expanded to a class-action. The City of New York and the NYPD need to be sued repeatedly till they stop this nonsense once and for all!
Art = Terror?!? Our society (esp. the NYPD) have made up their own rules regarding how to treat artists and photographers in a fear driven post 9-11 world. Forget reasoning with or quoting actually law to police - they will throw the book at you, hence - "Unreasonable voice/disorderly conduct".
It's sad that people used to inquire about my photography while working on the street. Now I'm a threat to the homeland because I have a unique interest and pursuit.
I could complain about the terrorists winning but our own Bush leadership through fear did this to us on purpose. (Read "shock doctrine" - N. Klein)
I should also mention that the goals of terrorism are to make democratic societies compromise their values.
Since when have cops not made up their own rules on the street? Now that amateur photographers are being harassed, the Upper West Side imbeciles are noticing?
Ah, but there's a difference! The time-honored way of doing it is to simply make up "facts" about what you did, to say that what you did broke some existing law whether it actually did or not.
This new approach is to report accurately what you did, but make up a nonexistent law that your actions violate.
I guess that's progress in law enforcement.
While the city's finest were harassing this gentleman, there was probably a guy exposing himself on the train.
I get the crackdown on quality of life crimes, but cmon...a guy taking a picture of a train pulling into the station??
Maybe it's because the subway drivers shouldn't get a flash right in their eyes every other station.
I hope the NYCLU actually sues the city this time.
I just saw this:
Photographers converge on new Scotland Yard.
However, Vallée explained that the majority of photographers present at the event had previously been the victims of unnecessary checks by police officers and that the situation was getting out of hand. He questioned whether police officers were, in fact, trained on photography rights.
Things are tough for photographers all over.
I love the disorderly conduct charge, which is just a tidy tack on if you object to being arrested.
there was a bum on the 105th and Broadway platform this afternoon around 2:30 that smelled so fucking bad people were horrified. That is like inhalation anthrax to the third degree-the hell with photography. Bring the hoses and a bar of soap
yuck
New station?
Sorry I meant 103rd Street and Broadway! Thanks for being so meticulous. Have a great day!
As others have pointed out, the MTA's rules -- which explicitly permit photography as long as the photographer isn't using lights or other ancillary equipment, isn't blocking anyone's way, and fulfills other similar conditions -- are in fact state law. If the NYPD asserts a law that trumps those rules, I'd be very interested to find out where.
I'd love to see a scan of the ticket or arrest report -- don't the cops have to put down the number of the law that you're being accused of violating? I've never heard of an "unauthorized photography" law, and wish the NYPD would quit making up laws. (Or if it's legit, then cite this information and be clear about it.)
I've been stopped repeatedly for shooting pictures in the subways. One time a transit cop refused to believe that there was no law against photography in the subway. I wrote a complaint letter and got back responses from both the MTA and the NYPD, which confirm that photography is legal. (The NYPD's letter also, unfortunately, weaseled out of some of my concerns and ignored others.)
And, I've also been asked for ID and told that al-Qaeda "sometimes hires guys who look like you."
Simply put, there are enough laws for the NYPD to enforce without making up entirely new ones to harass people who aren't causing harm. If they're suspicious of a person or a situation, they should of course check it out. But they don't have to be intimidating about it, they don't have to tell falsehoods about illegal acts that haven't happened, and they don't have to arrest people who haven't done a thing.
Come on, guys. You should cut NYPD some slack. If they got rid of every idiot on the force, we'd be completely unprotected. Nobody with a brain wants that thankless job. Even if it is often deservedly thankless due to stories like this.
Why is the NYPD failing to clarify the rules with respect to subway photography? Is it perhaps that they have no authority to make up rules since we have not yet been declared a police state? Is it perhaps that they KNOW that the officers in question, including the sergeant that authorized the arrests, are either incompetent or overzealous petty tyrants who attempted to make up their own law on the spot?
Whatever the answer the actions of the NYPD towards this photographer and towards photographers in general in inexcusable.
The NYPD tried and failed to get a legal ban on photography and now they are trying to enforce a de-facto ban through intimidation as opposed to legislation. FOR SHAME!!
nycphotorights.com
Some of it is also in what may the the culture of the NYPD itself. Cops have to look for aberrant behavior. To many cops, taking photos in the subway is plain silly or crazy. I have been questioned by cops when they saw me photographing artwork at the 66th Street (Lincoln Center) station. To be frank, they think we're nuts.
I think someone in here quoted a cop saying "go take pictures of squirrels"
www.forgotten-ny.com
I've seen tourists take photos. Once a cop approached a couple of German tourists and told them "No pictures". They said ok & he walked away. I understand German and heard one of them say "dope" in German. They're right.
I've visited Germany many times, taking photos in the U-Bahn (Subway) of Frankfurt and Munich with cops nearby. They never walked toward me & asked for ID. I'm tired of this law enforcement paranoia BS that 9/11 created.
I'm convinced you have to fail an intelligence test to qualify for the NYPD.
My opinion of the MTA police is thus... they are an organized crime syndicate, and they should all be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Stop the hypocrisy, I want to get off!