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Nadya Suleman, the California woman who just gave birth to octuplets, adding to her six older children, is giving her first interview to Ann Curry for the Today Show and Dateline. Suleman's in vitro fertilization sparked immediate questions from reproductive experts about whether her doctor acted properly: Suleman tells Curry she was implanted with six fertilized eggs, even though the doctor knew she had six kids. The 33-year-old single mom blamed her only childhood, "I just longed for certain connections and attachments with another person that I really lacked, I believe, grow ing up... I didn't feel as though, when I was a child, I had much control of my environment. I felt powerless. Reflecting back on my childhood, I know it wasn't functional." She adds, "I know I'll be able to afford them when I'm done with my schooling" (she needs to complete her master's in counseling) and received $165,000 in disability payments from an injury sustained while working at a mental hospital.
Octuplets Mom: I Was Really Lonely As A Child
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So it turns out that the man that was pinned by the 5 train this weekend was high. This was off the
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This woman is not playing with a full deck in my opinion. What excuse do the doctors have for implanting six eggs in one woman? More interested in headlines than acting responsibly no doubt.
Jeez, I seem to be the official Ides rebutter these days. But anyway, in cases where the embryos aren't "taking" they will routinely put in 3-5, with the understanding that if too many survive they will need to be reduced. (Anyway, I seem to remember us getting 5.)
Remember, the sources have said that she "didn't want to abort them" or some shit - so it's quite possible she ceased to cooperate with the docs and essentially walked away with her full uterus.
So, to sum up, while the docs could have made better choices, it seems highly unlikely that implanting six was a shot at medical glory.
The NYU Fertility Center director had previously said, "Most of us in this situation, a woman under 35, would only put two embryos back, except in the extreme example of a patient who’s failed multiple attempts. We might put a third embryo in that situation. But I don't know people putting six embryos back." And the thing is, she already had six children—four from single pregnancies and one set of twins (all apparently via IVF).
Why do they need an excuse?
And aren't you supposed to be some kind of libertarian? Aren't you always accusing liberals of wanting to control people's lives? Why is this any of your (or anyone else's) business?
The woman already had six kids and obviously seems to be collecting them like designer shoes. It's nothing to do with "controlling people's lives" to make an ethical judgement and use resources wisely, especially when there are women and couples out there still trying to have just one baby. Perhaps the clinic will help pay the bills of raising these all these kids for the next 18 years.
So it's okay to control people's lives as long as it's about "using resources wisely"?
Great argument, Malthus.
And a wonderful diagnosis via media, Dr. Frist.
So you're okay with your taxes paying to help raise these children?
Compared to the alternative, eugenics, I am most definitely okay with that. It's not an ideal situation, but nothing ever is.
Is there anybody here that would go to this demented woman for counseling?
i have to agree with ides on this one. this woman is mentally unstable. she ALREADY had 6 kids.
those doctors should have called in a psych consult when she 1st went to the fertility doctors or even better that other city's ACS.
why is this our business? because those premature kids were in the hospital for awile. who do you think is paying the bill?
As a female, I can lok at my body and say, "Okay, I have only two nipples. That must mean that, unlike farm animals, I am probaly only equipped to caarry two babies at the most. Not an Fing litter!"
Eight babies are suffering in ways we can only imagine. She is a sick sick and selfish person to knowingly put these babies through torture for HER pleasure.
I wouldn't have any issue if the doctors refused to do it. But the idea that they should have been compelled to refuse -- purely for societal economic reasons by some posters' reasoning -- is at the least a little disturbing, and certainly conjures up a slippery slope.
Remember, the only reason this woman is in the news is the 8 kids. If she had had additional children naturally, or maybe only 3 or 4 by IVF, we'd have heard nothing, and the selfish tax implications that everyone is worried about would still be present in full force.
So once you take the sensationalism away from this case, what is your real-world solution to this kind of issue? This question is directed to everyone.
I'll bite.
IVF should be cash up front only or perhaps covered by only the most extravagant insurance plans.
It should be reserved for childless women up to 40. The 65 y.o. moms they're creating in Italy is a travesty.
2-3 embryos max. A litter of 8 all but guarantees major health problems. Doctors should be wiser than that.
It's kind of like the bailout. If people act like children, treat them like children.
It's already pretty obvious that I disagree, but I thank you for the response.
She lives in a society not in her own queendom. And having 14 kids that she probably can't take care of is not doing anyone any good at all.
I don't disagree, but what is your solution?
It's obvious these situations are awful. My point is that the alternative is much, much worse.
What you are advocating is freedom without accountability.
You can make the claim that basic health care is a right in a relatively wealthy society.
Fertility treatments (especially when abused as badly as this) do not constitute basic health care and setting standards for them are absolutely not 'eugenics'.
Any system that decides who can and cannot have children is a form of eugenics.
We cannot legislate stupidity and mental illness away. It just won't happen.
And you still haven't answered the real question at the heart of the issue. Ignore IVF. What about "quiverfull", should that also be regulated? Why or why not?
If you had a disjointed childhood you go to therapy, not birth 14 kids. She's like a pet hoarder... only with children.
Lonely as a child? Get a puppy. Get six for that matter. Having 12 children is irresponsible of her AND the doctors.
should have put her in that mental hospital.
My thoughts exactly!
Insane in the membrane...
this idiotic woman ≠ nyc
I thought doctors considered things like if the potential mother was a nutjob or not.
My brain will explode if I read this article. I just know it.
"I know I'll be able to afford them when I'm done with my schooling"
That's a good one.
Her mom: "She's a very likable person. She's basically normal, except for this obsession she's always had with children."
This story raises significant ethical issues concerning her doctors. If they asked her why she wanted kids and heard the response that she provided above, then the staff should have rejected her request for in vitro fertilization.
On a lighter note, Angelina Jolie has competition for the mother most likely to have enough children to fill two baseball lineups.
Incidentally, the article linked just says she received $165K in disability payments, not that she blew that much on IVF.
Actually, I think she received $165,000 from a settlement and, from the interview I saw, it's not clear to me that she spent that much on IVF.
In any case, I wonder: Cold the Doctors legally have refused her wishes? They were her Eggs after all.
(sigh)
I meant: Could the Doctors legally have refused her wishes?
I'm pretty sure they could have refused. I don't think there's anything that requires a doctor to perform a medically unnecessary procedure. And that's not even considering the recent Bush 'conscience' regulation.
Maybe. Any lawyers reading this?
I read that in Britain, the legal limit is two embryos for IVF. Here in the states, I read it depends on each state to decide.
Not sure about the legalities, but the ethics issue seems to be about the mother's and the babies' health. I think many doctors are concerned because of the health complications involved with implanting so many embryos. If there are multiples, the risk becomes exponential. It's intriguing enough for me to want to read up on medical ethics!
The doctors had ethical and legal rights to refuse to do the procedure. The party at fault is the doctor or doctors that were involved. The woman had six children and to allow her eight more or five or even one was wrong. The IVF profession has helped childless women immeasurably. They have got to clean their house. Ms Suleman needs medical attention but not from the reproductive community.
gross
So she's on disability for a back injury and kept having kids? Sorry if I'm being cynical, but I'm having a hard time believing she injured her back. Another thing is that I thought IVF was super expensive. Even with disability how did she afford all these procedures?
From a PR standpoint, this woman is really losing. It will be tough to get corporate sponsorship, free stuff, etc.
She's pretty much being ignored by corporations who usually are happy to donate free goods to parents who give birth to multiples.
Talk about irresponsible. So she was lonely as a child and now all these preemies will have to suffer lifetime complications just so she feels better about herself. Sounds like she doesn't really care about them at all. Like JH4285 wrote, this is hoarding, plain and simple. And both the kids and society get to pay through the nose for her compulsion.
Why do I get the feeling the taxpayer will have to support all these kids?
I saw the interview this morning.
This woman has also clearly had work done on her face...restylane and cheek implants.
not sane!
I thought I was the only one who noticed! It looks like she spent $165,000 on lip implants alone.
She's definately remodeling her face to resemble Angelina Jolie. Creepy!
Guess you'd have to do something to restore your body after giving birth to two litters.
Don't forget that tragic nosejob. White trash Angelina Jolie.
Maybe she was expecting people to praise her for having that many kids and offer her children free stuff (tuition, clothing, diapers, etc) like other families who have had multiple sets of kids?
who the fuck is taking care of her kids while she was preggos? It seems like it takes an army to just take care of one kid these days.
This woman is ill. She has been unemployed for ages, her parents bought her a house then went bankrupt because of it and had to move in with her. Now she wants attention and publicity? No, fuck off!
I highly doubt that this woman can afford this many kids unless she's got a disgustingly rich husband - getting a degree in COUNSELING? REALLY? Good decision, lady. My tax dollars can support your 14 kids.
no rich husband, she's divorced! even less reason to do it
If just one of these kids has permanent disability related to prematurity she should be charged with child abuse.
Were the embryos implanted stateside? Reproductive ethical standards are bad here and worse worldwide.
This nutjob would have been better off collecting those scary-real dolls, or better yet, cats.
Crazy-cat ladies are a dime a dozen.
Oh yeah, she'll totally be able to support them once she finishes her masters in psychology. Because this is the type of nutcase I'd want counseling someone.
Check out what these pycologists have to say.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/29051458#29051458
As if this hasn't already been a grotesque display of irresponsibility between a team of doctors and someone who is obviously deeply disturbed, now our taxes will be used to remove the childen from the home that she, herself, described as "dysfunctional".
Oh and by the way, the state of California's finances are already in dire straits. Hope she gets a bail out.
It's really eerie—and these doctors are only scratching the very tip of the iceberg.
As far as I understand- IVF is cheaper with multiple eggs than implanting 1 at a time, thus why women who have trouble implanting can be given more eggs. But this woman clearly did not have this problem as she had already had several successful pregnancies!
6 embryos is too much. This Doctor or hospital needs to come forward and defend himself. It may be legal, but ethically doctors have a responsibility to interview their patients before elective procedures.
These baby's are already costing MILLIONS in the neonatal care room.
Good thing this lady has an extra-wide mouth, because with FOURTEEN brats to feed she'll need to work overtime giving BJ's to help cover her expenses.
SHES A DUMB ASS
awesome.
I caved and clicked the link to the interview. Damn, she sounds and looks a lot like Ledger's Joker.
This one is batshit crazy, kids. Her docs must have seen this a mile away and didn't care.
I saw the interview this morning...and she is clearly not sane. Her reasoning for this debacle is so skewed it is mind blowing! She was an only child, so what! There are plenty of only children in this world that don't need to validate their existence buy having 14 children. She said that she would never take welfare, and that she lookin to family, friends and her church for help, so i guess taking from the one's closest to you is ok. She also said that the father of the children is the same person, and hopes he will be in their lives. RUN!!! But the true blame lies with the doctor(s)who implanted the embryos.How ethical are they?
I thought I was being catty because I assumed she had cosmetic surgery. Good to know I'm not alone. She's nuts plain and simple. But I just heard that Oprah has offered her $2 million. Anyone know if that's true? She seems like the type who would do anything to become a millionaire. Reality show anyone?
Add to this the fact that her children will never know their father, it clearly is about her issues and her delusions of grandeur. She is a total wackjob and she needs to have her uterus yanked the fuck out before she strikes again. (think about it: if a doctor in the US won't oblige her, she could go to South Africa or Venezuela and have another procedure)And her delusions of wealth and fame are actually panning out. The whole thing makes me want to build a coathanger factory.
the doctors should be investigated.
The California State Medical Board has opened an investigation. She says that she was implanted with 6 embryos, four more than is medically advised. Were the docs in on her scheme to spin babies into gold? Will she be summoned to a board hearing? Will they rugrat her out? Will the "longtime friend" who donated the sperm come...forward? Will her fourteen children remember to send her flowers for Mother's Day? And will Anne Curry fulfill her secret wish to diaper her own IVF baby with one hand while cranking the Medela breast pump with the other?
She's insane.
And she reproduced.
14 times.
la lala lala....somebody wants to be Angelina Jolie...
Yes, well, right or wrong, at least Angelina has the money and the means to support her children.
Media Hoax?? Misprint??
Nope.
At least in China she'd have to pay a fee per kid.