Get a life people...you probably travel to Maine with Mary Tyler Moore to spread hate and discontent during the Rockland Lobster Festival. PETA thinks it's cruel to take lobsters out of the sea, cook them, and oh, my gosh, eat them!

I don't like animal cruelty either, but can't you regulate the industry (carriage horses) and allow the service to continue? Acadia National Park has horse drawn carriage rides through the carriage roads. PETA screaming about that yet?

Please attend the City Council Consumer Affairs Committees public hearing on Councilman Avella's two bill concerning carriage horses, and consider providing two minutes worth of testimony in support of this humane legislation. The meeting is scheduled to take place on Friday, January 30, 2009, at 10:00 a.m. on the 2nd floor of City Hal

No animal - domestic or wild can have its' natural instincts and genetics wiped out no matter how hard humans try to do so for their own greed and appetite. Cows and horses and all other animals do not thrive when their basic needs and instincts are denied.

This is why there have been 21 NYC horse carriage accidents that we know of in the last 10 years. The horses were spooked and took flight into traffic. LAIM THERE IS NO EXTREMIST AGENDA, ONLY VERIFIABLE FACTS. Another convenient tactic used by the carriage industry and their supporters is to say that only a fringe group of activists and 1 NY councilman want the industry banned in NYC. LISTEN UP! THE ASPCA, which volunteers to oversee the industry with their admitted inadequate resources, supports a ban. The ASPCA states that THE INDUSTRY IS INHUMANE, and NYC CANNOT BE CHANGED TO MAKE IT HUMANE AND SAFE! In addition to Peta, the Humane Society and ASPCA, numerous other equine welfare groups support a ban.

The industry is always coming up with clever spin that is always devoid of fact. No thinking equine expert would call working in Times Square, walking up and down 9th Avenue from their stalls in warehouses through the severely congested traffic a humane experience for horses (prey flight animals). The horses are slammed between buses and cars with honking horns, exhaust fumes, and total chaos. This is not normal and fair to any animal even if one tries to rationalize that they are used to it. No feeling creature gets used to abuse. To add insult to injury they have NO turnout (area to walk freely, stretch, socialize as herd animals AKA horse play. They suffer joint problems from walking on concrete in the heat and cold (high humidity and chill factors are not factored in for horses despite the real effect it has on them) where the temperature is much hotter and colder than the air temperature. They have inadequate stalls sizes which prevent many of the horses from fully stretching out to sleep well and the horse who are housed above the first floor of the warehouses have no direct escape to the ground should their be a fire. The list goes on and on so LIAM GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU ROMANTIZE THIS INDUSTRY. As far as the industry losing approximately 400 jobs, oh please, this is life. We all must take responsibility for staying skilled and ready to evolve as industries evolve. They are not owed welfare just as other workers must take responsibility to stay talented, skilled and ready for new employment needs/trends. Health care, manufacturing, and IT employees just to mention a few- have all had to retool.

Listening to the industry and their supporters (celebrity or not) is like listening to the tobacco industry explain why smoking is safe while ignoring the American Medical Associations expert opinions.

AS WE EMBARK ON POSITIVE CHANGE AS A COUNTRY, WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE A NEW COMPASSIONATE AND SAFE "TRADITION"!

These horses have no mandatory retirement home and the drivers/owners will never permit the law to require them to retire the horses instead of discarding them for slaughter. Peeba76 from Clinton Stables, where a 8 year old horse named Clancy was found dead, is not mentioned that even the ASPCA wants a ban because the conditions are INHUMANE. Also that they are not overseen by 5 agencies and that the one agencies that should oversee them has failed to do so. Look at the comptroller audit report thats states the horses were underwater, overboarding of passengers, no vet exam etc.

http://www.comptroller.nyc.gov/bureaus/audit/PDF_FILES/MH07_092A.pdf

For the people who know nothing about our horses, how they live or how many regulations we have: We have NEVER been cited for cruelty in over 150 yrs. We have 5 stables, 2 of which are state of the art. We make approx 60,000 trips to and from the park (68 carriages with 2 shifts per carriage per day) per year with an overal safety record that the horse racing industry or jumping horses, or any other equine sport can not touch! All of our horses in nyc have box stalls. (which the mounted police horses dont even have)They get ferrier care, worming, and dental and vet care on a schedualed basis...which is all recorded for the city. We are overseen by 5 agencies (we have more regulations and oversight than at-risk children). We have temp restrictions(low 18-high 89), and hr work restrictions (9hrs)which are overseen by the aspca. We send our horses to vacations on farms 3-4 months out of each yr. When our horses are retired they are adopted out through one of 3 adoption programs we use-one is on the homepage of the new york humane society. We are licensed 4 times over (carriage, driver, horse,and stable) We are fully insured. Our horses were trained specifically for this job... PETA is really good at lying to people. their intentions are evil. They want to do away with all human to animal relationships. ALL of them including pets. Its disgusting. If you want the TRUTH you can see my videos on youtube of my horses on my farm and in their stable in nyc and at work. This is the TRUTH. I can prove everything I say....they cant! Please take a look before you believe everything they say.

http://www.youtube.com/user/StopLiesSeeTruth

#33

I'm for you in the cage match

Liam would dominate

as for feline domestcus

I was saved from the Yonkers Animal shelter at 3 months old, you ever been to the Yonkers Animal shelter? Because i'll tell you its no place for a kitten with the nonstop noise of hundreds of pit bull mixes that people abandoned in the cages barking incessantly.

Not to mention the fact that if i wasn't adopted by my owner I would have been put to sleep.

So i prefer love and a cozy apartment any day of the week

Watch out or i'll claw your eyes out.

As you really care, i do recall you stated to squat Squirrels, rat hybrids. those nyc carriage horses are slaughtered anyhow after years of abuse.

Mostly @ Marcyd:

Because Liam Neeson is a member of a certain type of NY elite society, it is perfectly acceptable in circles like his to exploit animals without a thought. He is a not a "neutral party weighing in." In HIS circle: they regularly eat things lke veal and foie gras, the women all wear fur, men go "shooting" animals for "sport" and on and on. Please. Btw, t's called hunting. This is not the English countryside. It's done during the weekend @ Neeson's actual country house in Millbrook, NY, located in the "correct" area code, etc., etc.

These are facts and whether his opinon is ok or not is only about all our individual perceptions here.

"Many people who support animal rights causes are likely to also work for human rights. One does not cancel out the other."

While this is very obvious to me, remember that a lot of people just go about their daily lives and don't really know any activists. And not interacting with any means they don't know this.

I also applaud any person who takes a positive step towards reducing suffering. They don't have to be vegetarian or vegan or flat out "all or nothing type," which some people here seem to need as a pre-requisite to taking an anti-horse carriage stance. It is very, very hard to lead a 100 % cruelty free existance as imperfect, fallible humans. However, it's easy to educate oneself and then forge ahead to do what one individually can.

"Reducing suffering is the goal, and change happens one step at a time."

Yes! Right on.

***

I commend felixthecat for not engaging the comment baiters. He is obviousy passionate about this particular issue and posting lots of references rather than empty insults. I think that telling people "to get a life" or that they are "morons" ALWAYS backfires! Everyone reading those statements recognizes that the person who wrote them simply substitutes empty, judgemental insults for actual useful information.

And I'll never understand why people can't just simply think to themselves: "Dang that guy posted a lot," for a moment, and then move on, that's it.

I agree with Liam. So what if horses are being enslaved? We are the master race.

Whoops, that sounded way different than I anticipated.

A NYC horse-carriage ride: $34 for the first half-hour or fraction,

Horse Carriage Industry 653-A Bill: Over $6,500 in campaign contributions

Humanity: Priceless

Council Member James F. Gennaro of Queens proposed 2 bills in 2007 and now has merged them into one bill 653-A to ensure the rate increase to $54 from $34 for the first half hour or fraction is enacted. Bill 653-A (A local law to amend the administrative code of the city of New York, in relation to the regulation of horse drawn cabs) is scheduled for a hearing and most likely a vote on Friday, January 30th, 10:00 AM at Council Chambers-City Hall. On May 11, 2007, CM Gennaro received from over 45 carriage drivers and owners ,including the industry's lobbyist James McMahon, over $6,500 in campaign contributions which amounts over $28,500 with contributions matched.

Bill 653-A has no provision for mandatory retirement homes for the horses and doesn't restrict the horses to the park only. Comptroller William C. Thompson Jr.'s Office Audit Report of the Carriage-Horse Industry, dated June 27, 2007, found "When we asked DOHMH officials why there was so little oversight of the industry by their agency, they stated that the ASPCA had over time increased its monitoring." Yet Gennaro's proposed Bill 653-A will remove ASPCA from the inspections. There will be no third-party monitoring of these horses since Linda I. Gibbs, Deputy Mayor for DOHMH (Department of Health and Mental Hygiene) is the wife of Tom McMahon, whose lobbyist firm Brown, McMahon & Weinraub LLC represents NYC Horse Carriage industry. The inherent conflict of interest may be an factor in the lack of oversight of the Carriage Industry reported in the Comptroller's Audit.

On Friday, January 30th, 10 AM at Council Chambers-City Hall, I hope Humanity prevails over political dealings that have compromised New York City for too long and borne needless suffering on those carriage horses.

One of my good friends has known Liam since they were both in their 20s. Liam has always been passionate about horses, both riding them and caring for them. Obviously this doesn't make him an expert, but he is not a complete idiot either. I would venture to say at least he knows something about what he is talking about, versus the "concerned" people who get all their knowledge from PETA videos.

No 71, not only you are bitching about nothing, when you say that gothamist is "liberal biased", but also then present as evidence of a supposed argument, the shadiest website ever trying to defame Peta by presenting the reasoning of polarization?

You surely are a republican! Only your side has the reason, and the rest is "biased".

"No 71, not only you are bitching about nothing, when you say that gothamist is "liberal biased","

Learn how to read - the lead line I quoted was as "news factual" as "when did you stop beating your wife?"

" but also then present as evidence of a supposed argument, the shadiest website ever trying to defame Peta..."

Have any facts to contradict that website?

"by presenting the reasoning of polarization? "

It's "polarization" when a conservative points out the hypocrisy of the left but it's "reasoned discourse" when written by incomprehensible libs (hint, take a basic writing class).

(HERES ANOTHER HINT _ YOU WHINNY ABOUT ALLEGED ABUSE OF HORSES, but have no compunction about sticking a scissors into the brain of a baby and ripping him live out his mothers womb so he can die on surgical tray because it was too inconvenient to carry him to term - Wear your "I survived Roe-v Wade T-shirt lately?).

"You surely are a republican! Only your side has the reason, and the rest is "biased"."

You surely are a libtard, According to you, only YOUR side has the reason, and the rest is "biased".

" Neeson (who didn't seem at all like an animal cruelty supporter ...")

Sigh, I keep forgetting the Gothamist articles are opinion, not news...

PS _ Any PETA wizards here against abortion on demand? How about "late-term" abortions?

BONUS!

http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

Stop scapegoating the horses, the horses are not the cause of late term abortion. jeez.

Also there are no PETA videos on NYC carriage horses. the video blinders was from a NYC resident. Do note that the NYC carriage drivers never permit videos of the jail cells stall these poor horses are kept.

The facts, you are Genious!

Folks: If your are befuddled by Amanda's logic and syntax, it is not your fault.

This is someone whose Gothamist description of herself is: genious. (sic)

carriages horses probably dont live under the most idyllic conditions possible, but i dont know how you can rationally want to ban the carriages and not the shoe stores and restaurants that also surround central park.

animals raised and killed for meat, clothing, shoes, etc. on commercial farms live in conditions that are much much much worse than these horses endure, and then are killed.

it is terribly hypocritical to call for the ban of the carriages horses in central park and not for the ban of the hot dog vendor next to them.

if you eat meat or wear leather or fur, you support industries that are infinitely less humane than the carriage industry and inhumane to tens of millions of more animals than exist in the carriage industry.

it's unfair, irrational, and hypocritical to pick on one small industry because you dont happen to use their services while simultaneously supporting huge corporate interests that are MORE inhumane to MORE animals because you think cheeseburgers are delicious.

Some of us who oppose the carriage horse industry are indeed vegan, myself included. It might be hypocritical to oppose this industry and still support fur, leather, and eating animals, but this article is about the horse carriage industry. Reducing suffering is the goal, and change happens one step at a time.

thats fine. if you are vegan and dont wear leather shoes when you dress up, oppose away.

but, 2 things.....

one is hat there are a lot of non-vegans who are opposed to the carriage industry. i know some of them. why do they oppose the carriage industry and not the hot dog industry? because they are new yorkers and dont care about riding in a carriage but they love the taste of meat. if there was a slaughter house on central park south, maybe more people would be protesting the hot dog vendors. but there isnt one there. its easy to pick and choose which forms of "inhumane" treatment of animals you are opposed to based on what is convenient to you, but that still makes you a hypocrite.

and second, considering that there are something like 100 carriage horses compared to the tens of millions of food animals that are treated infinitely worse than the carriage horses, i have to wonder if the vegan peta types have misguided priorities. yes, i know that people have to pick and choose their battles. but to me, it seems akin to picketing a small, independently owned bodega for selling a couple products made in a sweat shop, while ignoring the walmart next door to it.

It is more than 100 horses, over 200 horses and they live short life span in NYC and are replaced with other horses to abuse. Thousands and Thousand of horses are abused in NYC carriage industry