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NY1 reports that a group supporting Palestinians protested in Union Square yesterday. NYC Labor Against War's Michael Letwin said, "We know the Jews have experienced oppression throughout the centuries and we can recognize oppression when we see it. And we know that the Palestinians here are the victims not the perpetrators." However, over at the United Nations, a rally with local politicians was held in support of Israel. City Councilman David Weprin said, "Israel should not cease fire now, until either Hamas is defeated or Hamas relinquishes its power. Until that time comes, Israel must continue its current course of action. Israel must finish the job," and Rep. Anthony Weiner said, "Hamas began a campaign of terror that's gone on for years. And I think Israel is doing all it can to end it in the only way they have left." Today, it's reported that Israel is moving its offensive to the southern part of Gaza.
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Something I learned last night: Many news reports are making much of the violation of the 6 month cease-fire on the part of Hamas. What hasn't been reported much is that over the course of that short-lived truce, there were over 130 violations of the truce on the part of Israel. I'm not arguing for one side or the other- it would be madness to say that one group of people has the right to kill another. Over the past week, however, I kept asking myself why Hamas would provoke Israel in such a way which would be interpreted as foolish at the least.
That said, I think everyone should turn in their rockets.
The problem there is largely from overpopulation. This should be a neutering campaign. Take a lesson from Bob Barker: clip the balls of all the men in Gaza.
weiner supports the jews?
shocking!
this entire conflict is a huge PR campaign, which Israel has been winning for years...but a sense a change in that regard
Folks love to blame the Jews. The fact that Hamas are using terrorist tactics doesn't seem to bother anyone. The Israelis are not the ones creating the violence; it's Hamas.
its not because they're 'jews' - they're people killing other people, just cause they're 'jews' doesnt mean you shouldnt critize them or look at thier actions objectively.
Here is an article from the bbc, read it with an open mind...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7811386.stm
Yep, it's people killing other people. Critize them and look at their actions objectively:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Qassam_rocket_attacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hamas_suicide_attacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_Islamic_Jihad_suicide_attacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_al-Aqsa_Martyrs%27_Brigades_suicide_attacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Popular_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine_suicide_attacks
Oh yeah, and how about this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_suicide_bombers_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict
So don't give me this crap about "people killing people." Both sides are using violence for their political goals. The only difference is Israel is targeting militants, with civilians being accidental victims; while Hamas and the above are targeting civilians on purpose.
Thanks for the links. I think this chart illustrates the real problem: Hamas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Number_of_Morter_and_Rocket_Attacks_2001_to_Late_2008V4.jpg
I love how it's okay to blame American voters for the actions of GWB but when Hamas comes in and ratchets up the rocket/mortar attacks, we're not allowed to blame Gaza voters. Yet another typical double-standard designed to protect one of the liberals' gilded victim classes. GO ISRAEL!
This is not about "liberals' gilded victim classes."
Choice between the current Israel's government and Hamas is like a choice between Bush and Franco. I rather have someone else, but if it's all I got, I'll take Bush.
"The only difference is Israel is targeting militants, with civilians being accidental victims; while Hamas and the above are targeting civilians on purpose."
I would argue that the difference is that Hamas does not hide the fact that they target civilians, nor do they have any powerful friends to help them hide that fact; while Israel does not distinguish btw civilians and militants, but claims otherwise, and has friends (the US) to spread the world that civilian killings are "accidental."
In other words, Hamas owns up to it. I'm not saying that makes it any better, but that is the only difference btw Hamas and the IDF when it comes to killing civilians.
re- Rep. Anthony Weiner rallying for israel or Bloomberg going there with Ray Kelly(?!) or every other politcian who says the exact same msg of support for israel ...consider that US politcians, both democrats and republicans support Israel on every issue
This is in contrast to rest of the world. In contrast to voting records at the UN. In contrast to world opionion polls. This is even in contrast to the opinions of Americans who in poll after poll show they do not support israel without reserve.
What does this mean? To me it means our democracy, our representive goverment, is not functioning. Here is a good article that talks a little about that...
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/12/30/democracy/
great article
i'm really sick of this "folks love to blame the jews" business. listen - i give a shat about the jews or their exclusive club of religious fundamentalism as much as i give a shat about any other religious zealots using their creed to brutally and carelessly murder women and children. It isn't about "blaming the jews", it is about objectively assessing what is currently occuring in Gaza and having half a mind to see that it is depraved on a base human level. stop with your foolish blanket statements of "everyone blames jews" or "well hamas uses terrorist tactics". the israelis have figuratively hog tied these people and left them for dead. they have forced them into the largest open air prison in the world. do you expect the israelis to be welcomed with roses? what we are seeing in Gaza is ethnic cleansing at its purist.
Oh look, it's dsdsdsdsdsadaaa's sock-puppet!
excellent counter
I was pointing out that you're repeating what dsdsdsdsdsadaaa is saying.
Regarding your statement about "objectively assessing what is currently occurring in Gaza and having half a mind," obviously you're completely ignoring several facts about the background and the course of the conflict.
Hamas violently took control of the Gaza Strip from Palestinian National Authority in 2007. Since then they were using it as a launching pad for rocket attacks on civilian targets in Israel. Do you really think Hamas didn't expect such a reaction? They were using the whole Gaza Strip as a "human shield" for years. Now that Israel is responding they're crying foul.
The only conclusion I can reach is that Hamas don't give a flying fsck about "brutally and carelessly murder women and children" on EITHER side, just their religious nationalist PR campaign.
smmfd: I agree completely. I am also not religious at all, and have no reason to side with any one team except that of reality. The die-hard Zionists have no good evidence for their claims, so they rely on name-calling.
i happened to be in europe last week and also was in europe when israel attacked lebanon a few years ago.
it was so refreshing to to see objective, fair news coverage on this issue, as opposed to the bullshit from the US media...although i must admit that this time around it is a bit better (slightly)
oh yeah, like the bbc last night that showed women injured when israel bombed a building they were in that was stockpiling armaments, gave them advanced warning it would be bombed but they stayed nearby anyways to serve as shields, and the bbc reporter says "israel says it tries to prevent these civilian casualties, but try telling that to the ones injured". european news is appalling in its one-sidedness.
seriously, do you not question it all when you hear something like
'the civilians that we killed were being used as shields by the terrorists'
Really? You buy that? To me thats sounds like bullshit.
This morning a UN school was bombed...twice...about 40 more men, women & children dead. I wonder if there were armaments hidden inside the UN school.
Here's an article about why you should question things more...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7809371.stm
Right, and the US-media is sooooooo much better than european news outlet...
Ok, let's say Israel has the right to do this.
But let's stick to the principle then, when Russia bombs the shit out of the towns where people who killed 300 of their children (to name one of the many terrorist acts of the Chechen rebels) hide in.
We are the most powerful and influential nation in the world. Our own hypocrisy is largely to blame for many of these problems around the world.
Did you support the U.S.'s action in Honduras? Kosovo? Afghanistan? Iraq? Do you support intervention in Darfur? Any or all of these?
You can't have it both ways. Either we are the world's police, or we aren't.
The UN is supposed to be the world police, and the UN has open resolutions that call for a RETURN TO 1967 borders...but its 40 years and that still hasent happened
This is a good article about power and how we determine whos the terrorist is...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/dec/29/gaza-hamas-israel
As soon as everyone realizes that the Zionists currently running Tel Aviv have carte blanche in Washington ( see Lieberman, Joe) the happier you will be. Israel is going to do what it wants to do and there is not a damn thing anyone can or will do about it.
I notice that the Palestinian supporters have started to appear again after a 7 year lay off. They used to be out regularly before 9/11/2001. After their celebration of the WTC attacks, they had to cool it. Israel has been hit by suicide bombers and rockets and held back long enough.
"After their celebration of the WTC attacks, they had to cool it"
When exactly did Palestinian supporters here in the USA celebrate the WTC attacks? Please cite some evidence or else stop maligning people for no good reason.
So when you have a rich army and are capable of killing thousands of people in the strike of a button you are honorable. However, if you have no army and your only way to fight is using guerilla tactics you are a terrorist. Murder is murder, army or "terrorist"
These people have been driven from their homes and sent to live inside a wall; that’s apartheid folks.
Then again, Palestinians don’t financially contribute to U.S. elected officials campaigns nor do they control the North American media so its kind of hard to hear their side of the story...
amen
I have a lot of sympathy for freedom fighters. Fatah, for example, renounced terrorism. Hamas not only encourages it, but directly participates in suicide bombings and rocket attacks of civilian targets.
spot on.
@rdsizzle: I agree. The situation for Palestineans is not bright at all. That is the core of the problem. The cause of it is, in some measure, Israel's actions (blockades, etc.).
The solution, however, is NOT the one Hamas suggests: namely, to get rid of Israel. Israel has done some wrong, but it has also done some right, chiefly giving the Gaza Strip back to its citizens in 2005. And what happened next? Hamas wrenched it from Fatah, and instead of building a strong government and infrastructure, stockpiled its citizens' homes with rockets.
Hamas is not good for Palestineans not only because its raison d'etre is to get rid of Israel, but because by attempting to do so, they divert national/pan-Arabian attention and money away from real solutions to the plight.
You can support Palestineans, but you cannot, by any means, support Hamas.
Mr. Mel, funny you should mention 9/11...let's take a look at what Benjamin Netanyahu said on 9/11, and I quote:
"Asked tonight what the attack meant for relations between the United States and Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, the former prime minister, replied, ”It’s very good.” Then he edited himself: ”Well, not very good, but it will generate immediate sympathy.”
rdsizzle....YOU WIN!! spot on, sir, Spot-freaking-on!
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&q=suicide+bomber&btnG=Search+News
Win?
The Palestinians need to be protected from Hamas. As usual, they're their own worst enemy.
http://www.jewcy.com/post/hamas_political_failure
they were shooting rockets from that school, read the news.
yesterday I watched as the world reported one version of the UN bombing and the eventually counter story put out by Israeli propoganda and then dished out by the US media.
I dare you to compare how the US reports on Israel and how its depicted in other countries and not be shocked at the manipulation thats served as news.
Meanwhile, back in reality, John Ging, Gaza director for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, said he visited the school, where he was "reassured by my own staff [there] that there were no militants in the schools.
"If anybody has evidence to the contrary, then let's bring it forward," Ging told reporters in New York via video link."