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As the situation in the Gaza Strip escalates—besides Mayor Bloomberg heading to Israel to show support, diplomats say the U.S. blocked a U.N. statement asking for a cease-fire between Israel and Hamas—tensions are high. The Daily News reports, "thousands of Palestinian supporters demonstrated in Times Square Saturday to protest Israel's punishing military offensive..." with the "wave of protesters stretched across three blocks, dwarfing the dozens of boisterous supporters of Israel assembled across Seventh Ave".
A Palestinian-American social worker who lives in Brooklyn, Linda Sarsour, told the NY Times she wasn't surprised that Israeli forces started a ground attack, “As organized as the Palestinian community is here in the United States, we already knew this was going to happen, and I think the Palestinian people in Gaza have expected it. Now it’s time for Israel to come in and face the people on the ground. It’s all-out war now, and we’ll see what happens.” Another Palestinian supporter told WCBS 880, "Anywhere around the world, it would be horrifying. It doesn't matter where you come from, when you see innocent people dying for no reason at all."
The pro-Israel supporters across the street blamed Hamas: One told the News, "I thought it was important to stand up to Hamas and terrorism, whether it's Islamic terrorism in Mumbai, London or Gaza. Terrorism is terrorism."
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Jews are hands down the most persecuted people in the history of man"kind". If it weren't for that pesky pale skin most of them have, they'd be *the* poster victims for the PC movement. Alas, without the ivory tower on their side, all they can do is fight. As an agnostic with no familial ties to anyone of the Jewish faith I nonetheless salute Israel for its take-no-shit policy and truly hope that everyone in Gaza who voted for Hamas takes a moment to consider their own culpability in this colossal goatfuck.
yes! this is why i voted for you when you ran for mayor!
I still don't understand how 2 small ass countries that account for maybe 10 million peeople can occupy so much newstime. China vs. Taiwan is much bigger news. even russia versus georgia.
Or, say, India vs Pakistan, which (a) actually involves Al Qaeda, (b) involves nukes pointed at major cities, and (c) has turned into an all-out war several times before already...
Because it's the "Holy Land". Holy frijoles, that makes it extra special and nothing boosts ratings like religion.
Same people in the pictures that celebrated 9/11.
Meanwhile Obama is chipping from just off the green...
you know he's not president yet, genius.
From the looks of his golf and bowling skills... He isn't very coordinated either.
Just can't get over the fact that Obama won, can you?
he may officially be president but for all intensive purposes he's our president. if we don't want the nit wit to speak for us, we need obama to say something. president or not, his input is badly needed.
And Bush is still asleep. So much for "I've got 12 months" for a Middle East Peace Deal in his final year.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1575173/President-Bush-predicts-Middle-East-peace-deal.html
I'd just qualify them as idiots. I was a bit disturbed by a clip 1010 WINS kept playing yesterday, of a protester complaining that Israel was being "disrespectful" by bombing a mosque. The idea that Hamas was wrong for storing weapons in a holy place had apparently never entered her mind.
Yep, "people dying for no reason at all." Those hundreds of rockets were being launched by magical fairies. I'd have more respect for Hamas and its supporters if they'd man up and take responsibility for what they were trying to do, which is to kill Jewish people. Wait, probably not.
Perpetual victimhood is the reason that no one has any respect for Palestinians, and they keep getting booted out of every home they try to establish for themselves (e.g. Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt).
I'm sure a right of return might be more fathomable when energy was channeled to constructive activity instead of insane hatred. Not that any party will come out winners in this fight.
I hope all these protesters got their picture taken so they can fill their memory books with iconic images of themselves dressed in Keffiyahs striking a defiant pose in front of a disinterested transit cop puffing on the last of his cigarette before shuffling away to the nearest McDonald's.
It's very easy to dismiss all protesters as overly PC hippies and all Arabs as terrorists. It's difficult (well, apparently for most of the above commenters) to actually read some history and do some thinking. The Palestinians got booted off their territory, squished into ghettos AND get blamed for fighting for their basic human rights. Hamas was democratically elected because the Israeli govt persistently refused to settle the issue peacefully though they were given plenty of opportunity. Yet here in the country that provides Israel the weaponry to decimate the native population of Palestine, we have citizens quick to label all Palestinians and their supporters as terrorists. Thank goodness for the thousands of protesters that show the global community we have some decent people among us.
"The Palestinians got booted off their territory, squished into ghettos"
blah Noam blah Chomsky blah Ward blah Churchill...
Nice try at revisionist history. Arabs have been allowed to live in Israel since before and after the refounding of the modern 1948;
The only post-7th century actions / forcing off the land has been done to arabs and jews BY ARABS.
JEWS have been forced out and are not allowed to live in most arab nations, AND NO WHERE ARE JEWS ALLOWED TO LIVE (forget about safely visit) IN THE "PALISTINIAN" controlled areas. (hint, thats 98% of the west bank, and ALL of Gaza)
"get blamed for fighting for their basic human rights. Hamas was democratically elected..."
Yeah, pre-election Hamas killed almost everyone daring to run against them...
" because the Israeli govt persistently refused to settle the issue peacefully"...
You mean, " because the Israeli govt persistently refused to settle give up MORE LAND IMMEDIATELY when Hamas started launching rockets THE DAY ISRAEL UPROOTED TEN THOUSAND JEWS AND LEFT GAZA. "
Thousands of rockets later, and all you can complain about is that Israel doesn't retaliate PROPORTIONATELY?
No army in the world except possibly the U.S. does more to prevent indiscriminate or collateral damage. You would prefer that Israel RANDOMLY shoot back?
The reason you have 10-1 in casualties begs the question of why you aren't complaining to the Hamash*les who launch and store their rockets FROM BEHIND ARAB WOMEN AND CHILDREN!
And finally, to the jino traitors and other useful idiots marching with the stalinists International CAnswer (look it, those people support NORTH KOREA HAVING NUKES) and the jihadist scum screaming "Jews to the ovens", WE WILL SEE YOU ALL IN HELL OR JAIL, WHICHEVER YOU PREFER.
"blah Noam blah Chomsky blah Ward blah Churchill..."
That's right; when you lack the knowledge to debate reputable historians, just stick in a "blah blah blah." Just like a 5 year old.
"Nice try at revisionist history. Arabs have been allowed to live in Israel since...1948"
Well, obviously history is subjective according to you. And how nice of the Israeli govt to let the original inhabitants live on their own land as second-class citizens. Zowie! Such kindness.
"all you can complain about is that Israel doesn't retaliate PROPORTIONATELY?"
Actually I didn't say anything about that. I guess you bring it up because you feel guilty about it.
"No army in the world except possibly the U.S. does more to prevent indiscriminate or collateral damage."
That's not saying much, seeing as the US invasion of Iraq resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of innocent Iraqis.
"You would prefer that Israel RANDOMLY shoot back?"
Did I say that? No. No, I did not.
"The reason you have 10-1 in casualties begs the question of why you aren't complaining to the Hamash*les who launch and store their rockets FROM BEHIND ARAB WOMEN AND CHILDREN!"
I am a US citizen and my duty is to protest wrongdoings done on behalf of my people. If I were a Hamas member, I would complain to them... and also, as a guerilla group without the backing an army supported by the US, where else would they hide? Gaza is a small, densely populated area, not a sprawling land with vast areas to hide in.
"And finally, to the jino traitors and other useful idiots marching with the stalinists...and the jihadist scum screaming "Jews to the ovens", WE WILL SEE YOU ALL IN HELL OR JAIL, WHICHEVER YOU PREFER."
Obviously when you have no facts to support your arguments you rely on name-calling and sweeping generalizations. And CAPS. And since you are so courteous, I'd prefer to see you in hell. HELL.
A bunch of rancid trustafarian attention whores dressing up like Yassir Arafat are "good and decent people"? Do they also put on yarmulkes and go out into the streets when a Hamas terrorist blows up a bus? No. They say that "Israel deserved it" because the people in Gaza who democratically elected crimminals can't find jobs. And they cheer each blind rocket attack by Hamas that kills an ordinary person in Israel. IMHO, these "good and decent" protesters can go fuck themselves.
"A bunch of rancid trustafarian attention whores"
Name-calling and flat out making sh*t up does not persuade anyone to take your opinion. Were you at the protest? If not, how would you possibly know that they "say that Israel deserved it" and "cheer each blind rocket attack by Hamas that kills an ordinary person in Israel"? No, you just assume that and spew out nonsense accordingly.
"the people in Gaza who democratically elected crimminals can't find jobs"
They can't find jobs because jobs have been taken away, or they have to travel far from the occupied territory for low-paying jobs.
thanks #16.
the rest of you are jerks.
how would you fight back if your electricity, water, means of earning a living, getting an education, and homes were squashed by an occupying force?
"how would you fight back if your electricity, water, means of earning a living, getting an education, and homes were squashed by an occupying force?"
Here's a hot tip: HAMAS is the occupying force.
Here's another.
And another.
And finally, "The ideology of the Islamists whose ranks today include not only al-Qaeda but also Hamas and Hezbollah -- originated with Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood. And the Muslim Brotherhood finds not just its roots, but much of its symbolism, terminology, and political priorities deep within the heart of Nazi fascism."
Condemning Israel for murdering women and children does not = support for Hamas. I think Hamas is a huge problem, but I'm sorry, unless the life of a Jew is worth 100 Palestinian lives, then pardon me for being for thinking Israel's response is uneven, reckless and murderous. If you want to call me an anti-Semite for leveling any sort of critique on Israel, then, well, I'll wear that pseudo-label with pride.
Four Israelis have died from rocket fire FOUR! 80% of these "thousands of rockets" being launched from Gaza don't destroy anything more than desert scrub and rocks. It's like responding to rock throwers with shotgun blasts. What Israel is doing in response is an atrocity, and they continue to get carte blanche from the Global Community, no wonder people turn to such venomous groups as Hamas--they are the only ones fighting back.
This whole thing is a mess. No group has any blood-right to any piece of land. Land is not in our DNA. Land is claimed, counterclaimed, fought over, and "rights" are manufactured through history and force. The Jews have no "right" to Israel/Palestine. Palestinians have not "right" to Palestine. Christians have no "right" to Palestine. It's time we stop this none-sense about whose land it is and work for a just solution. I'm sick of this. I'm sick of American Jews blindly defending Israel. I'm sick of white hipsters wrapping themselves in Kiffas, looking for the next easy cause to support. I'm sick of Islamic Fundamentalists using this to push a medieval worldview...Everyone argues over Israel/Palestine for their own purposes, but nobody gives a shit about average Palestinians, who are trapped in ghettoized refugee camps and have the Faustian choice between an ineffective, castrated bureaucrats (Fatah) and radical bloodthirsty warmongers (Hamas & Hezbollah) as their leaders. I'm sick of it.
Correction: The current exchange rate is 270 Palestinians to one Isreali.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_MIA_prisoner_exchanges
But you are correct that nobody cares about the average Palestinian. Even other Palestinians don't care.
For all those who are critical of Israel's actions, I ask one simple question:
What do you propose as an alternative?
I absolutely hate to see a single civilian killed in this conflict and I question, given the history of Lebanon and Gaza, whether this operation is really in Israel's best strategic interests. But I honestly can't figure out a better idea for what Israel is supposed to do in response to the never-ending rocket barrage coming from Gaza other than try to go in and kick the crap out of the people who are responsible--people who divert all their resources to building rockets in the midst of a humanitarian crisis, people who are publicly sworn to the abject destruction of Israel and the elimination of all Jews and Christians (including Palestinian Christians!) from the entire Middle East. When the rockets are purposely being launched from UN schoolyards and stored in mosques, how is Israel supposed to defend itself? Should the Israeli government just say, "Sorry, residents of Sderot. Hamas launches all their missiles from UN schoolyards, so we'll just have to let them keep doing it because it looks bad if we shoot back."
Many of you complain about Israel's response being "disproportionate," but what do you propose as an alternative? Should Israel be restricted to using only inaccurate home-made rockets and launching those indiscriminately into populated areas of Gaza? Should Israel be required to hold their fire and let the rockets rain down until one successfully kills a Jew. And then Israel can only retaliate until they've killed an equal number of Palestinians?
The thing is, I completely sympathize with the liberal PC folks who are horrified by what is happening to the innocents who reside in Gaza. It absolutely sucks. But there seem to be only two options in dealing with Hamas: (1) all the Jews (and Christians) leave Israel and hand the keys over to Hamas, or (2) Israel fights back. What other option is there?
look at un resolution 242 - look at the 1967 borders - if israel gave back land it took after the 1967 war - there would be peace - however they want that land more than they want peace and so it goes on...
Oh, right, because before 1967 the Palestinians were perfect little neighbors.
Hamas has never offered peace for a return to the pre-1967 borders. Hamas has said that if Israel withdraws to pre-1967 borders (including withdrawing entirely from the Old City of Jerusalem, which was occupied by Jordan from 1948 to 1967), AND agrees to a complete right of return for all 1948 refugees and all their descendants, AND dismantles all Israeli settlements in the West Bank (i.e., any Palestinian who wants can become an Israeli citizen, but no Jew can live in the new state of Palestine), then Hamas would agree to a hudna, or truce. No promise of peace. No promise to recognize Israel. No promise not to use that hudna to build up their military power and try to destroy the rest of Israel.
Sounds like a great deal, right?
frankly, f**k bloomberg for going to israel right now. he is the mayor of new york f**kin' city, which includes people from all backgrounds (including palestinians).
I thought Israel is bombing Hamas, not the Palestinians in Bay Ridge.
This is Israel making facts on the ground before their puppet president, Bush leaves office, so that Obama has to deal with them in Palestenian territory - it has nothing to do with Hamas or rockets and certainly not peace.
Obama has always been fairly unambiguous about his support for Israel. You sound like one of these delusional "progressives" who think that Obama is supposed to act like Kucinich on steroids just because he's black.
an obama administration will probably not be much different when it comes to israel (the only difference will be expectations; now, there are none). also, remember that israel has its own elections coming up, where hawkish netanyahu is in the lead. domestic politics in israel has as much to do with this as january 20th.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/05/washington/05diplo.html?bl&ex=1231304400&en=99a6130dae16eb41&ei=5087%0A
I guess I'm a ME expert cause this was in the paper today. this war, like the one Georgia launched while the Olympics going start when they do for strategic reasons....this one during the holidays, while Bush is still around...when do the israelis stop bombing, when do they decide enough is enough, hamas isn't a reconized goverment so its not like what they say means anything right, there is nothing the regular palestenians can do but wait till the israelis get tired of killing them.
its very sad.
This is Israel making facts on the ground
Can you tell me what this phrase means? I don't watch enough television news or listen to enough regurgitating drones on the train to discern its meaning.
"Making facts on the ground"? Are you fucking kidding? Is that like making mud pies or something?
This is Israel making facts on the ground
Can you tell me what this phrase means? I don't watch enough television news or listen to enough regurgitating drones on the train to discern its meaning.
"Making facts on the ground"? Are you fucking kidding? Is that like making mud pies or something?
What the news fails to tell us, is that most of the Palestinians killed have been Hamas militants. Here's the deal, these people voted a terrorist organization as their government, the government fails to coexist and therefore is receving what they deserve...
everyone should read the history of Israel.
its very simple.
Israel was founded on someone elses land - they have killed and robbed these people for 60 years. There are NUMEROUS UN resolutions on the matter. All call for Israel giving back land - such as was taken when Israel pre-emptively launched a war in 1967. Read the history. Its very simple.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UN_Partition_Plan_For_Palestine_1947.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:West_Bank_%26_Gaza_Map_2007_(Settlements).jpg
i'm not really a religious guy, neither muslim nor jewish. but if you wanna go way back...the old testament of the bible was written well over 2,000 years ago. whether you believe what it has to say or not is irrelevent. there were jews living in israel when the old testament was written. the prophet muhammad was born in 570.
but lets be realistic - the bible isnt a deed.
the people in the bible are long gone. Just because you practice customs of some people who lived somewhere over 2k years ago doesnt mean you get to re-establish a country where other people are living now.
there is no legal or ethical basis to take someones home cause 'it says in bible people who practiced my religion used to live here'
I mean c'mon...really, its absurd
"Israel was founded on someone elses land "
No, Israel was stolen by the Romans and then squatted on by muslims.
Where was mohamhead when Moses brought the Jews out of Egypt?
Where was mohamhead during King David's rule?
Where was mohamhead when the Romans controlled the land?
Muslims squatted on the land after the collapse of the Roman Empire -Jews are only trying to live in Israel, but muslims aren't content unless NO ONE BUT MUSLIMS LIVE THERE*.
The nightmare of Fislam started in the 7th century, and included mohamhead slaughtering Jews in Medina!
Want more modern history - read here:
http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/jordan.html
and be sure and check the footnotes - they are not from "joos" or the leftist fools supporting jihad on Wiki...
* And here's a hot tip from an American Muslim: they want to dominate America just like they are taking over Europe: look up "islam" or "muslim" + Malmo in Sweden, major parts of Paris and Londonistan and the Netherlands.
This is old news. These tribes have been killing each other for desert land for at least 5000 years.
Why is America taking sides in an intractable conflict that has no end?
read this history of the area...nearly ALL of the people from one 'tribe' emigrated there in the last 50 years.
and nobody emigrated to israel. they immigrated to israel. they emigrated from elsewhere.
It's typical of warmongers of both sides to use the "what else should Israel do?/What else should Palestinians do?" arguments when defending violent responses to violence.
The real question should be, what strategy would lead to a long-lasting peace? But that's too hard, and would require too much self-critique, especially on the part of Jews and Israelis, so, yeah, just bomb away.
Without long-term outlook, the only way this ends is when all Israelis are dead, or all Palestinians are dead. Palestinians reproduce too fast, and Israelis have too much support from the US for that to happen...so we're in for 1,000 more years of this, which, by the way, suits most American Jews just fine. They don't have to live there, they can just play tough by rah-rah'ing "tough Jews" over in Israel.
Here's a long-term solution: have one or more of the Arab nations let the Palestinians settle there permanently.
so a Palestenian who was forced out of thier land and has lived in a refugee camp for 30 or 60 years should move to another country whereas someone from Russia or Brooklyn that practices Jewish customs but has never been to the area has a right to move there today and be a citizen?
How is this fair? Outside of America there is a nearly universally different opinion of the conflict, but don't take it from me. Read the history of the area...make up your opinion....
Btw:
What do Israel, Rwanda, Nigeria, Iraq, etc. etc. have in common?
They are all mistakes of an arrogant European colonial imaginary which assumed you could just move people around and draw borders with little or no thought/concern for actual cultural differences and rivalries of inhabitants who suddenly found themselves "countrymen" of groups they hated, or kicked off land they'd lived on for thousands of years.
I don't necessarily blame early Jewish settlers in Israel, in fact in the aftermath of the Holocaust with Europe and the U.S. reluctant to accept survivors into their nations thanks to persistent, latent anti-Semitism, it is entirely understandable that they felt like they needed a nation of their own. But in the intervening years, the sad truth for Israel is that Jews have voted with their feet. There are more Jews outside Israel than within it, and ask U.S. Jews if they'd move there tomorrow, my guess is that 95% of them would say, no thanks, I like New York/Boston/LA/Miami, etc.
Israel is a mistake of an arrogant U.S./British colonial mindset. I don't blame Jews or Israelis for it. Nor do I think Israel should be abolished, anymore than I think my home, the United States, should be abolished b/c it too is a product of colonialism. But there were people living there before 1948. Just like there were people living here before 1492. I shouldn't pay for the injustices of European incursions into the Americas any more than Israelis should pay for their predecessors incursions into Palestine. But the moment we start thinking critically about Israel, and stop with this "birthright" nonesense, we can start moving forward to a solution.
Any solution will be just as painful to Zionists as it will be to radical Muslims who feel the land is theirs alone. It involves pragmatism and difficult self criticism and reflection. Something very seldom seen on this comment board...
Exactly. I have no personal reason to take any one side over the other; I'm not Israeli, Muslim, or Palestinian. The reality is that most people, Israeli and Palestinians alike, want to live in the peace, but are duped and manipulated by those in power into perpetuating a cycle of racism and hate. It is impossible for me to believe that an entire people of a particular religion or race are stupid or inferior in some way and thus deserve their painful circumstances. However it is entirely believable that smaller groups become corrupted by power and are capable of immense atrocities. That story has been told over and over again, and it is up to the populattion to educate themselves and vote hatemongers out of office rather than succumbing to propaganda.
It involves pragmatism and difficult self criticism and reflection.
If you were raised since a child never to be critical about yourself or your beliefs, how are you going to start?
Can't argue with that bit of demography. I would even say the past 100 years to be safe. But your point is well taken.
Either way, the US has nothing to gain - and a lot to lose, witness 9/11 - by getting involved.