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A reader sent us a scan of a flier she found at NYU's student center, "It’s a flier for a NYU financial aid plan that basically tells students that can’t afford NYU to go to CUNY," and points out it's crazy that "NYU can’t give its students decent financial aid even though John Sexton flies to Abu Dhabi every other week and we keep buying new buildings all over the city." The school's tuition is around $50,000.
We're getting confirmation from NYU about the flier (full version after the jump), which almost seems like it could be fake, but it seems legit to our reader, who added, "'In and Of the City'" is something NYU's administration talks about a lot to new students – it's a selling point they use for people coming from the suburbs who are really enchanted with 'NYU the dream school.' NYU has really terrible financial aid, and I guess they're just kinda giving up on getting people to stay. I mean, we're like dead last among private universities for financial aid, but they just keep building new buildings. Sexton does say a lot of stuff like this all the time… dunno, I'm just fed up. NYU isn't just a dream school… it's almost like a nightmare."
Update: NYU spokesman John Beckman tells us the flier is a fake, "Another satirical triumph for desktop publishing...I am sure the fake NY Times headline about the Iraq war will inspire many others."
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Why not? CUNY is a great school system. It's just as good as NYU, but without the premium cost and name recognition. The only advantage that NYU is that you get to be in a super cool non-Ivy League ring-knocking club.
well said , Papercut
I think it's nice for NYU to promote CUNY schools. For people outside of NYC who desperately want to come to college in NYC but don't realize what the other options are, it would be very helpful information.
Ha, NYU's leadership has been screwing the surrounding community for decades. It does not surprise me that this is their "financial aid" solution.
They charge their students as much as possible, pay their staff and faculty as little as possible, bust unions, over-develop the area... all the while taking advantage of tax and zoning benefits afforded to them by their institutional status.
NYU is a terrible neighbor.
This just really outlines the devilish attitude NYU has towards both its students and the city.
Financial Aid sucks! Friends who have received full rides to John Hopkins and Boston University couldn't get a dime out of NYU (or Columbia, for that matter). Still, the university is the largest property owner in Manhattan and charges $50k/year per student for a college experience that barely qualifies as a college experience! I even have friends with masters degrees from NYU who can't find a lick of work in the field they were studying!
Epitome of greed!
I always felt NYU was one of the most overrated and overpriced undergraduate educations in the nation. I feel like good CUNY insitutions will give you a better education for less money, plus you'll be surrounding by people striving for better lives, versus NYU kids who want nothing out of life except their daddy's monthly deposit in their bank account.
Various NYU grad programs are another story, but undergraduates? Please, I'm not impressed at all.
(And I didn't go to undergrad in NYC, so I don't necessarily have an ax to grind here)
Seconding Papercut.
I've been at CUNY/CCNY for two years, and while things obviously aren't as polished or prestigious as our neighbors on Washington Square, its a damn fine education for what I pay (and in general). I had the grades to get into a Tier 1 school, but decided to go to CUNY and save all that money for graduate school, and I've yet to be disappointed by the quality of teaching I get in the higher level classes at CUNY.
My two cents is that I'm not so sure I want an influx of snobby ex-NYU kids with a holier-than-thou attitude in my classes next year.
Ok, I'll bite. Why does this John Sexton guy fly to Abu Dhabi every other week? Could it be the arab world is trying to buy influence in America's universities? No wonder so few politicians are willing to drill for our own oil and take business away from OPEC.
As for the Columbia comment, that has to do mostly with the Ivy League's need blind admissions policy. All scholarships are need based rather than merit. I luckily got nearly all of my Columbia degree paid for by them. If they continue forward with their financial aid plans students entering whose parents make less than $60k (I think?) a year will receive a no-loan free ride. So, in short, Columbia is improving its financial aid greatly.
In the end it actually ended up cheaper for me to attend Columbia than my own state school because the state school tended to not give out free-rides.
I have heard horror stories about NYU's financial aid department though. I've heard no top-50 school is stingier with their money than them.
As a CUNY alumna (BA and MS), I agree with the above comments concerning the quality of education available at CUNY. However, I'm annoyed that such "In and Of the City" transfer students may receive a significant portion of their education at CUNY, then return to NYU. Aside from tuition, what benefit does CUNY get from this arrangement?
I went to NYU for grad school 16 years ago (when it still cost only $24K a year to go there). Because the school gives out scholarships based on "merit" (i.e. GPA) without considering the relative difficulty of one's undergrad school, though I had no money at all and had already put myself through undergrad independently, I was only awarded a need-based partial work-study scholarship (while another student with no financial burdens and a higher GPA than mine from the University of Arkansas! got a free ride).
OK. That aside, I was doing a joint degree between two different programs. The plan was that one would sponsor my work study for the first year, and the other (the Journalism Dept) would do the second year.
First year went by fine (although I was really struggling financially and the scholarship I received only covered about $15K; I had to take out loans for the rest). Then in the spring of the first year, I went to the Journalism Dept. about my work study. Surprise! They had forgotten that this was happening... they never agreed to such a thing... etc.
OK, WTF? After hours waiting at the crappy Financial Aid office, it became apparent that I had somehow fallen through the cracks of NYU's gigantic, inefficient bureaucracy.
However, the program that had sponsored me for the first year came to my rescue: they continued my work study for the second year (thus essentially taking one work study away from an incoming student). So they were great -- but as for the Journalism Department, NYU and Financial Aid as a whole? Fuck them.
i agree that it's pretty lame and obnoxious for nyu to veil "hey, go to another school" as a vauge "in and of the city" program, but i must say their intentions are in the right place. if they're having problems getting aid to students quickly, at least they're being realistics and letting credits transfer and promoting a neighbor school with strong academics.
also, for the record, i'm an nyu grad ('05) - and the ONLY reason i went to nyu was b/c i got a really good financial aid package. my parents are teachers, and we couldn't afford the ivy leagues or even out-of-state public schools like unc and uva, so i went to nyu almost exclusively because of its affordability and good financial aid - and the aid was in the form of university grads. even though my choice to attend nyu was based on the aid package, it ended up being a legitimately awesome academic and social experience that i could not have replicated at another school.
the situation sucks, no two ways around it, but i must vouch for nyu's financial aid being generous, at least for me and *many* of my friends.
i hope i didn't discredit my stellar nyu education w/my inability to proofread. that was supposed to be "vague," not "vauge".
Aside from tuition, what benefit does CUNY get from this arrangement?
Some of those private-school students would see what an asset CUNY is and stay, and maybe become donors in the future. I went to a fairly big-for-its-britches state school for undergrad and did my doctorate at CUNY. (And I've *taught* at NYU.) Seeing a system that does more with less and actually serves its community has been inspiring - that's certainly where my future donations will go.
Encouraging money-challenged students to look at CUNY would be a very realistic and humane thing to do on an ad hoc basis, but to commit such a thing to paper would be insane. (That's like the CEO of Coke saying, "Well, you can always drink Pepsi." You've gotta believe in your brand.) I'd wager that it's a fake.
"It's just as good as NYU, but without the premium cost and name recognition"
I agree, but with certain programs, name recognition matters most, especially when it comes to business schools.
Yeah CUNY! NYU is a highly overrated institution and as mentioned above a very bad neighbor.
Have to say I went to a very expensive undergrad school with little FA - Pratt Institute. It was worth every dime - I got lots of connections which have served me well for years. Nobody is very impressed with a NYU degree in any discipline - with the exception of the business school.
Got my graduate degree from City. I think it's a great school if you get engaged in what you are studying. City's biggest drawback is that ugly NAC building.
I'm an NYU grad and if I had to do it all over again I'd skip the whole thing and go to the New School or Fordham instead. Big waste of money. Anyone struggling to pay for NYU should look elsewhere, as the school suggests. The quality of education I got there was definitely not worth the loans I'm now paying off.
Everyone always seems to forget about Fordham. Want a real college experience (read: campus!) in New York City? Look no further!
I'll admit I was lured by the glitz and glamour of NYU back when I was applying. My acceptance packet even came with a $15,000/year scholarship. When I appealed to the finaid department, saying I couldn't afford the rest on my father's bartending salary, they said, "Be grateful." Not kidding. I sent my deposit over to Fordham instead, which gave me full tuition.
I've never looked back. No classes with more than 25 students. No TAs to be found. Two beautiful campuses. Not to mention that the students are much more down to earth at Fordham than at NYU ("Where's my allowance, daddy?").
Oh, and about that financial aid? Fordham professors are personally reminding students to have their finaid packages reevaluated to see they are eligible for more assistance in the current economic climate.
Don't forget the other NYC alternatives--there are some schools here that have a heart.
The poster states:
"I mean, we're like dead last among private universities for financial aid,..."
If this is indicative of the writing skills of NYU student satirists, does anyone wonder why they are disdained?
Bad enough they speak that atrocious Valleyspeak, can they not even write a spoof of a University document, without the ubiquitous "I mean" and "like".
On the other hand, perhaps John Sexton flies to the Abu Dhabi NYU campus every other week to try to find out why they continue to admit NO JEWS or GAYS as students there.
What the story, President Sexton?
This whole (fake) plan would assume NYU would take all the CUNY credits.
Hmmm.. Three years CUNY, one year NYU.. an NYU degree on the cheap! Could it work in reality?
But screw that. I'm taking classes at CUNY now and the schooling has been (mostly) excellent. Now if they could paint the walls every couple of years...
I agree that CUNY provides a great education, but there's no need for someone from Pratt to spit on it. I'm so glad that your apparent knowledge of EVERY discipline that NYU has to offer has made you so prescient so as to know that 'nobody is very impressed' except for Stern. Everywhere. In any topic.
You do realize that NYU law is arguably the best law school in the country, right? Or NYU Medical? And that Tisch has produced how many artists/musicians/writers/directors/etc of note, at both undergraduate and graduate levels? Gallatin, CAS, Steinhardt all have their own merits and have great programs; NYU's Italian department and its philosophy department for instance are viewed as the best in the country and that's just for starters.
Don't slam things groundlessly, you just look like a pathetic twat.
I couldn't get financial aid from NYU so I went somewhere else. And my life didn't end.
Boo fucking hoo.
Who wants to go to a school where the fundraising begins before you even show up there? NYU got fat on all those rich Baby Boomer parents whose stock portfolios made them rockstars in their own minds. Well guess what? Aside from the usual Stuyvvies and Ridgeleys, those rich assholes are freaking out and even if they still have the money, they're going to trot their brats around every financial aid angle until they either just give in or junior's off to SUNY, CUNY, or Starbucks.
NYU can go to fucking hell
Nobody is very impressed with a NYU degree in any discipline - with the exception of the business school.
You didn't major in mathematics otherwise you would know better than to say what you just said.
But for $50K/year tuition, NYU buildings (except for Stern) seem old and outdated. Where does all their money go to?
Prank or not, it's true. There's nothing wrong with CUNY. If more good students opted out of the prestigious schools and went to CUNY schools, the whole quality of the university system might rise.
As it is, they laughed at my New School BFA in France, when I applied for a masters there. They figured it was worth a BAC (their equivalent of prep school), and me start from freshman level. And I soon saw why.
(I got my five years of university education for free, in their state system.)
I am about to graduate from NYU and while I was lucky enough to be awarded both academic scholarships and a financial aid package from the university, I completely understand people's various sources of irritation about the university. But I'd like to point out 3 things:
1) NYU has a relatively small endowment when spread across the number of students: $52,000/student --
compared to $252,000/student at the University of Pennsylvania, $280,000/student
at Columbia, and $1.9 million/student at
Princeton in 2007.
2) Yes, there are many "prissy" and spoiled NYU students. But they certainly do not make up ALL of the student population and I personally hate fighting against that stereotype every damn time I tell someone I go to NYU.
I'm smart, don't have a lot of money, and have maintained a 20+ hour work schedule throughout my four years at NYU so I could afford to the enjoy the city I live in. If that's too much for your mind to handle, that's not my fault.
3) The prissy students aren't the ones who are going to be switching over to the CUNY schools. Your moral standards are safe.
sounds like a lot of you didn't get into NYU.
LOL @ sheer amount of delusion in every sentence of post 16.
NYU pulled its typical financial aid bait and switch with me after my freshman year. Consequently I am happy to have Hunter as my alma mater, and not be hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt! I kept my city and my money! I love CUNY!
to answer whoever asked why John Sexton's flying to Abu Dhabi all the time: as I understand it, the prince of Abu Dhabi gave NYU a significant amount of money to start a university there, and JSex plans on teaching a class there when it opens in 2010. Which means he'll be flying over every week.
notes about the Abu Dhabi offer: the prince had made the same offer to several other schools, including Yale, Harvard, and Princeton (as far as I know,) and they all turned it down. Seems like other universities don't feel the need to open a new franchise abroad while their students are drowning in debt. Smart!
First off, regarding Columbia, which someone mentioned as another expensive school. Assuming the person meant either of Columbia's primary undergrad schools (College or Engineering) the unaffordability claim is complete nonsense. Now especially, with the under 60k families sending kids for free, but even before that, where such families paid very little. Columbia and all the Ivies tend to give just about as much as a family needs. Yes, that means that there is a need to stretch resources, especially if someone falls into the unfortunate bracket where tuition starts rising faster even though income still isn't "high" (think 80k-150k or so household, this is from personal experience). However, that's a matter of the parents perhaps being unable to afford that vacation over the next 4 years, and having to take out a reasonable amount of loans / being a little more frugal. It tends toward the manageable however; people who "can't" go typically have parents who don't "want" to pay, rather than being outright unable to find funds to write the check, whatever the amount may be.
Now regarding NYU: it being overpriced is relative given the fact that the market bears it; nobody "has" to go to NYU, and if they want to, they can weigh whether it's worth it or not for them to go. I'm sure the NYU experience is just as valid as any other.
Finally, given a significant other who is a part of CUNY's honors program, no less, I do get the impression that the academic environment, assuming that's all you care about in a school (you shouldn't), is less than optimal. Given the lower level preparation of the student body as a whole, I have heard of instances where the professors clearly don't respect their students and have very low expectations, where the class discussions seem to be far less "profound" than the ones at Columbia. Furthermore, the fact that the vast majority of students commute takes away campus vibes, and the schools aren't really more "diverse" than the Ivies (the Ivies tend upper middle class, the CUNYs tend lower middle class). It's cheaper, certainly, but it's very much a "you get what you pay for" thing: yes, you will come out having learned and earned your degree, especially in some departments which happen to be stellar, and generally in the scientific fields where from my experience, it doesn't matter as much what the undergrad location is, because the material is the same. However, in humanities classes, and a sense of a college experience, the CUNY system is lacking. I'm pretty sure that most people who would choose CUNY over Columbia would do so because they can't get into the latter, or are somehow uninformed about the Financial Aid policy.
Just for a little balance, and knowing that I'm the exception to the rule, NYU was cheaper for me to attend than The College of New Jersey would have been. I earned a bit of a scholarship, and their Financial Aid office was fairly helpful whenever I needed it to be and duly adjusted my aid package when my mother lost her job. Yes, there are loans still, but my colleagues who went to college in the SUNY system have good-sized, outstanding loans.
That's not to say it wasn't expensive or that I didn't have plenty of problems with the bureaucracy during my time there: just that maybe I've been out of there long enough now to remember that they weren't evil incarnate.