Gothamist: Riders May Lose W Train Among Big MTA Cuts

NYC Stef

Mon, 24 Nov 2008 14:20:27 -0500

Ye gads! That article was an eye opener (and real downer) and as usual everyone's responses were rapier sharp!

BrooklynBredTom

Sat, 22 Nov 2008 10:38:18 -0500

...and I agree, this takes some major protesting. Not just a brief news story.

BrooklynBredTom

Sat, 22 Nov 2008 10:37:08 -0500

I'm sorry if I seem to repeat everyone, but this is complete and utter nonsense. I'm only 20, but I was born and raised in Brooklyn (surprised?) and have seen the train service get continually worse and cost more and more in my short life span. How about we as people do something... any suggestions? Ha.

rasputinsghost

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:41:47 -0500

Longacre apparently loves his neocon talking points. Europe no longer needs the US to defend it and I'm really curious as to how the US' military spending helps the defense of HONG KONG. Those are some pretty serious mental gymnastics used to justify a bloated military budget.

metronome

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 21:25:49 -0500

re: article Astoria needs the W train! One of its advantages is that it has a decent commuting time to the city. People move here for this reason and then support the continued growth of the community. re: #56 Thanks for sharing. That's outrageous about the squandering of working hours with mismanagement.

TN

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:51:28 -0500

How do you know he/she is from London? Cos they said 'bloody'? So only people from London say Bloody? London is not a country you know. Way to come off like a dick. The person used "bloody" twice in the post, used "Fire the lot of them" and in another post, "rubbish". If he/she doesn't come from across the pond or some former British colony, that person is definitely an Anglophile. Now, London is not a country, but for many Britons it is their world. Many go there for better careers, more exposure to different cultures & ideas and for many younger people, a better nightlife (like those coming to New York). I have visited London & other places in the UK, I have friends there and that's the image I get from interacting with the people there. Many Britons here probably tried their luck first in London before moving to New York and that's most likely the place they would return to, if they can afford it. Now, if my remark was offensive to any Brits living here, I'm sorry. That wasn't my intention. I just directed my anger at someone who in my book is a dick, someone who complains & whines (based on r1b2's other comments recently) , but doesn't do anything about it. Now I have to admit that I'm probably a dick in this regard as well, as are you, citizenerased. I'm not saying that we shouldn't complain about the transit system, the question is how should we complain & respond. Now, I grew up in this city so maybe I'm used to getting the shaft when it comes to the subway & other things. I just suggested, perhaps a little negatively out of anger, that instead of complaining perhaps r1b2 should change his/her environment. That concludes my response to your nasty & "easy" post. Have a pleasant evening.

drchadwick1

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:42:28 -0500

All of you who are so gung-ho on cutting station agents should realize that when they don't have staff at a station entrance, they close off all the normal turnstiles and force everyone through those g-damned tall ones, which are slow as shit. Try grabbing an NRQW at Canal Street on a weekend sometime. There are LINES of people waiting to enter because hundreds of people are trying to stuff through a few slow-ass "meat grinder" turnstiles. And for those of you who like to bitch about how rude and inefficient MTA employees are, I know I can buy or refill a metrocard twice as quick from a person as I can pounding buttons on those shitty vending machines.

citizenerased

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:51:19 -0500

"Maybe you should go back to London if it's so bad" How do you know he/she is from London? Cos they said 'bloody'? So only people from London say Bloody? London is not a country you know. Way to come off like a dick.

HowBoutDemCowboys

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:51:43 -0500

#22 said "Boohoo to drunks who can't get home at 4 in the morning." Right. Make them get in their SUVs and drive home t-boning cabs and killing everyone inside. That's a great idea. /rolls eyes

Tracer Bullet

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:14:36 -0500

I live off the Ditmars station in Astoria too, and yesterday I'm pretty sure I saw a bunch of workers playing cards in the building at the end of the tracks. Fire them. They're not doing anything anyway.

MisterTissue

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:09:13 -0500

#57-- As a former Chicagoan, it was the first thought I had...like Frank Kruesi's annual "Wah, wah poor me" bitch session, it should wring a few dollars out of the state.

JMH

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:52:43 -0500

Where's Anthony Weiner to complain about THIS tax on working-class New Yorkers?

blackwhole

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:34:19 -0500

Open the books.

brinycbri

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:09:02 -0500

"Maybe you should go back to London if it's so bad" Never got this kind of talk. It's juvenile, reminds me of what I used to say in 2nd grade. Basically you are saying, dont fix a broken system because there is a worse one out there in the world. Kinda stupid

JenChungsBra

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:22:10 -0500

Does this mean fewer smelly people on those rare occasions when I take the crosstown bus to work instead of walk?

Jon Claw

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 07:58:25 -0500

If this goes into effect AND they raise the fare, the MTA can kiss my money goodbye. I'll be going to a local bike shop instead.

TN

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 00:30:34 -0500

Maybe you should go back to London if it's so bad.

r1b2

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 23:08:10 -0500

Tonight's ordeal on the F: waiting 20+ minutes at B'way Lafayette at 7:30 PM, F finally arrives but is PACKED, at 7:30, because the train is so bloody infrequent. For this I am going to be charged more? How token booth attendants have jobs, let alone get paid so bloody much with the minimal high-school diploma (or GED) is shocking, especially when you consider that THERE ARE NO TOKENS! Fire the lot of them and pass the savings on to us, the consumers.

virgil

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:59:45 -0500

Did someone hire the MTA to kill NYC?

longacre

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:13:44 -0500

^ Unfortunately the governor and the state government have more influence on MTA funding and management than the mayor, even though 99% of MTA trips terminate in NYC. Bloomberg can't be blamed for this.

hungryghoast

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:59:02 -0500

something i've always wondered: Why don't the people who run the MTA actually USE the trains? you know they don't. in fact, i wouldn't be surprised if the city is paying for their private town cars... If they were forced to use the trains, maybe they'd be a bit more involved in managing the damn thing better... Related: The failure and degradation of the MTA is yet another massive blemish for Bloomberg. He plays the whole "i'm the sort of mayor who rides the trains!" charade, but we all know it's a crock of shit. What a joke.

99centmenu

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:53:35 -0500

it's been said in here already but it bears repeating: holy shit

HUGO_MEGO

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:42:46 -0500

$4.00 subway fare!!! WOOT WOOT!

west side Michael

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:49:35 -0500

Triple Taxi fares as well. More fun to walk with a crowd.

longacre

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:33:45 -0500

^You can also afford awesome stuff if you don't pay the laborers. See: Russia, China and Dubai.

ANGRYGOD11

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:17:16 -0500

They rely on the United States military to protect them, that's how. It's amazing the great stuff you can buy when you maintain only a tiny and symbolic protection force. Also see: Europe. I didn't know the US military protection enabled the Moscow subway system (very grand and stylish). The Soviets were very clever.

capnbadger

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:13:25 -0500

The really outrageous things about this is that it isn't just garden level mismanagement that caused this. The MTA gambled away the money they had on CDOs. See this nytimes article: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/business/02global.html?em They had the money, they just threw it away. If they hadn't lost that cash things would be tight but not catastrophic. Whoever approved these financial deals should be fired. Immediately!

ny2102

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:09:58 -0500

"Cutting the G in half" sounds like terminating it at Court Sq at all times, not fewer trains (my guess). My hope is the MTA is doing what the CTA does well—threatening outrageous, ridiculous service cuts if the government doesn't pony up. Chicagoans go through this pretty much yearly.

shovel

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:08:55 -0500

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/investigators&id=6506742 http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/investigators&id=6510511 (follow up) NEW YORK (WABC) -- It appears the Inspector General will open up his own investigation in the wake of our report. One area the inspector general may want to look at is supervisors' management of track crews. Those we monitored spent more time waiting than working. At 10:40 in the morning, eleven transit workers were more than two-and-a-half hours into their work day and still had yet to work. Thirty minutes later, they were sitting down, waiting to get the okay to begin their job. Some nap to kill the time. Others drink coffee or chat on the phone. Finally, around 11:30, they were given the orders to start making repairs to the platform -- three-and-a-half hours into the day. "It's not acceptable to have people being paid when they're not working," State Assemblyman Richard Brodsky of Westchester said. Brodsky, who oversees authorities like the MTA, says our investigation reveals a serious waste of resources. "We don't know yet how wide this behavior exists and what the economics cost are. We will find out this will get dealt with," he said. For three months, we documented track crews in the Bronx and Manhattan standing around for hours waiting to begin their assignments. While their work day starts at 8:00 a-m, crews we monitored didn't begin work for hours, often waiting for an equipment truck to arrive. Numerous times, we observed the equipment truck arriving around 11 o'clock. The crews would work for about two, maybe three hours and call it quits. "It is inefficient. They don't plan they don't schedule properly," said one track worker who requested anonymity. He says in an eight-hour shift, maybe one or two hours are spent working. "On a daily basis I see workers who, for example, they do one hour of work and they rest for the other seven hours," he said. The head of the union representing two thousand track workers says one explanation for what we found is that transit supervisors purposefully keep crews off the tracks until 11 o'clock to prevent train delays. "They have no control when they enter upon the track or when they exit the track. They're under supervision. They're under instruction," Roger Toussaint said. And a memo issued in June by the superintendent of rail control instructs all track managers that "flagging" and "inspections" on the tracks can only take place between 11:00 o'clock in the morning and three in the afternoon. But transit says that rule was only in effect for two weeks. What seems clear is that mismanagement has created a lot of idle time, and as our investigation has found that leads to abuse. From the worker who went from one park to another to read for hours day after day, or the crew that drove the MTA truck 30 miles so they could hang-out at the beach, or the guys killing time lifting weights, and perhaps the worse abuse, the track worker who spends hours tending to his bar and running errands instead of inspecting track. Wasted time, wasted money while the MTA threatens crippling service cuts and huge fare hikes. "We have MTA management claiming poverty, claiming they don't have enough money to do anything, cut service and increase fares. Meanwhile, we see probably millions of dollars of pay going out the window," City Councilman John Liu.

longacre

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:55:25 -0500

Isn't the W almost completely redundant anyway?The W is redundant but it adds a significant amount of capacity...its purpose is to alleviate crowding on the N. Without it, thousands of people an hour will have to pack on to N trains. The Z plays a similar role with the J. How the hell do large cities in Asia, like Seoul, Tokyo and Hong Kong, finance and maintain such clean, safe and on-time public transportation systems? Please MTA! Copy whatever it is they've been doing for the past twenty years.They rely on the United States military to protect them, that's how. It's amazing the great stuff you can buy when you maintain only a tiny and symbolic protection force. Also see: Europe.

joshuagallaway

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:50:02 -0500

"and seriously, vallone, have you ever heard of the N train?" During the day, half of the Astoria trains are N and half are W. That's what he means--instead of 4 minutes between trains in the morning it would presumably be 8. The wait is not the bad part--it is how full they will be before they have even gone 3 stops.

drewo

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:29:13 -0500

Is the MTA's budget available for public viewing - in a transparent and (relatively) easily understandable form? I'd be curious to see the breakdown of all these payments.

ericp

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:24:04 -0500

coming from DC, this service is so much better than the DC Metro service. It's cheaper, runs more locations and has more train service. i wouldn't like to pay more than i am, but i see it as pretty much an inevitability

S_R

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:21:37 -0500

for #31: http://savetheg.org/

glennQNYC

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:56:47 -0500

Post #32 comes closest to my thoughts. Seems to me the MTA figures that they have a captive consumer base that will just pony up and pay more, accept less, and wait longer for it. I think gains in ridership (for the purposes of revenue, etc...) need to be made in the margins between people who need to use the MTA, and those who's situation doesn't allow them to. Most people I know who simply choose not to use mass-transit, do so because they find the experience less attractive than the alternatives. If this was a legitimate, for-profit business, the MTA would be looking for ways they could attract more customers.

Sir Jimbob

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:53:29 -0500

The G Train is already half a train as it is. :[

citizenerased

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:52:22 -0500

Replace all employees with monkey's and charge fat people extra for a metrocard since they take up more space.

bornbrednewyorker

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:47:15 -0500

I've heard from some friends in the MTA that the reality is a $2.50 fare, say bye bye to the extra dollars they tack on when you buy a metrocard AND all of those cutbacks including the Shuttles. Rumor yes but very good source.

tigger2970

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:43:16 -0500

Cut all the station agents. Screw the tourists who can't figure out the ticket machines or subway maps on their own.

pkreder

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:43:01 -0500

J A C K A S S E S...

babyfishmouth

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:42:12 -0500

Exactly, Dirk. And get rid of free cars for MTA executives - they can take public transportation like the rest of us, or use their own cars.

pkreder

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:41:46 -0500

The MTA sucks...completely mis-managed. I live off the Ditmars stop and all I see is the station people playing grab ass between trains and generally just stealing our money. The MTA and all their workers are...spell it out...J A

NannyState

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:41:29 -0500

Eliminate all of the meatware. Let machines and computers run the shitty MTA. And if they cut service, refuse to ride that garbage. Walk, bike, take a cab or two.

DarkGemini

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:37:22 -0500

How the fuck is the S train not on that list? Seriously? Hell in a handbasket, my friends. Hell in a handbasket.

Dirk

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:35:21 -0500

They should start with a pay cut for all the upper level management of the MTA.

jonsedar

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:33:16 -0500

Londoners are used to paying about 2GBP per journey and for that receive a pretty decent service - certainly one with immeasurably cleaner stations, more clear signage and better map facilities. What's the problem with bring the MTA fare into line? Just make it $3 per trip and give us a better service.

ihateregistering

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:32:43 -0500

Yeah, I am totally getting a bike if fares rise. Babyfishmouth is right. We can't just sit here and complain. If you don't want to stage a protest outside the office, get a bike. Walk. Use the MTA as little as possible. Complaining gets you nowhere.

Roquentin

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:30:51 -0500

They need to squash the 2nd Avenue line. Why is nobody talking about this option? That saps cash out of the budget left and right. They should stop worrying about building new lines when they can't even make the ones we already have work.

babyfishmouth

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:26:28 -0500

Stuff like this keeps happening because all we do is sit here on our computers and complain. We need a good old-fashioned in-person protest. Who wants to go down to Jay Street and start walking around with protest signs? Who's with me? Or are you just going to keep typing?

Steven

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:22:59 -0500

The only way to get the MTA is by the people taking a stand against them because politicians could care less. How about cut some bloated salaries from the higher ups? How about take away some of the free perks they get? It's always the average Joe getting the hits, while the people who run the system are living in a life of luxury.

TKaisen

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:21:00 -0500

Over 1,500 pink slips for station agent and administrative jobs How station agents still have jobs is one of the most mind-boggling things in the universe.

fishfryin

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:20:43 -0500

and seriously, vallone, have you ever heard of the N train?

nycviabos

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:19:09 -0500

NYC needs (NEEDS!) more public transit, not less. Cutting services should not be an option, regardless of the budget woes. Run deficits, raise prices on advertising, develop more advertising schemes, cut back on office workers, charge more for single-ride users, but DON'T cut services or reduce the number of staff at stations. Staffed stations and frequent service keep the system safe and raise revenue by increasing ridership. How the hell do large cities in Asia, like Seoul, Tokyo and Hong Kong, finance and maintain such clean, safe and on-time public transportation systems? Please MTA! Copy whatever it is they've been doing for the past twenty years.

jonmiz

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:17:56 -0500

We need to form a G Train alliance. This shit is really getting out of control. I bet if there was a tourist trap in Brooklyn or Queens, like say a really tall building or a big light up billboard, service cuts on the G wouldn't be even suggested. Unfortunately those boroughs are just filled with 5,000,000 hard working people who just keep getting fucked harder and harder.

r1b2

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:15:40 -0500

The good news is that service to downtown Brooklyn on the "F" can't get worse. Hmm, what's that? It CAN and WILL get even worse? $#@%*&@$!

fishfryin

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:14:03 -0500

yeah, they'll get rid of a couple lines and get service to every half hour late at night because things are so bad right now. then in 5 or 10 more years when everything's perfect again, do you really think they'll reinstitute that service and tell the employees they have to run more trains, etc.? FUCK NO. same as how all the pizza slices and everything else shot up in the last 6 or 8 months cause of transportation and raw material costs. but you don't see the price of a slice coming back down now that everything is even cheaper than it was a year ago!!

Think twice

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:12:34 -0500

They're using a week's worth of doomsday scenarios to get more money from the government; either through bridge tolls, commuter taxes, or wherever. I wonder what the Ravitch Commission report will finally say.

jt10000

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:05:51 -0500

What Goodcow said is true -- it's horrendous waiting such long hours in the middle of the night. And $2.5 million is chump change in the scheme of things.

whitecastlerock

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:02:17 -0500

FUCK the MTA.

babyhitler

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:59:40 -0500

alright, i usually don't bike in the winter but if that's what it comes down to.

spiritross

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:54:17 -0500

MTA is a lot better then 6 different companies running individual lines Even if it costs $3 its still the best public transportation system in the US The subway now and five years from now is infinitely better service then it was 20 years ago and counting

JRod5417

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:53:32 -0500

"Cutting the G and M trains in half, giving them fewer stops." WTH! The G Train is the only train in certain neighborhoods in Brooklyn. Just when you thought service couldn't possibly get worse...

Gothamist_Cynic

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:52:57 -0500

They better not cut the G. It's actually not that bad during the day. Boohoo to drunks who can't get home at 4 in the morning.

optimist

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:52:40 -0500

Wait for $3-4 fares

matty

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:50:45 -0500

Isn't the W almost completely redundant anyway?

Alex

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:50:41 -0500

lack of federal and state funding for public transport is killing the mta

flynn110

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:50:26 -0500

man, i love my bike.

HowBoutDemCowboys

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:48:20 -0500

#7, I agree. They might as well get rid of the G if they're going to cut its service.

GOP

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:48:01 -0500

Unions are killing America.

pastaboy12

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:47:09 -0500

cutting back on the G??? it barely runs now! why do u think i moved out of that area!?

Toby von Meistersinger

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:46:03 -0500

How about cutting management and consultants?

goodcow

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:42:26 -0500

The plan to run trains overnight every 30 min instead of 20 is estimated to save only $2.5 million annually. I have to take two trains home at night, that's up to an hour JUST WAITING if they go through with this. This is bullshit.

JacqueMehoff

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:41:16 -0500

is it just me or those appear to be the most neglected lines and since the riders are used to crap, they're getting more crap on top of crap.

allie25

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:40:56 -0500

holy shit

chloe718

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:40:45 -0500

How about cutting the S line. Let the fat tourist walk from 7th Ave to Park Ave instead of cutting lines in communities where real NY-ers live. As a user of the Z train- it is no small thing to cut that line. I'll have at least 15-20 minute longer ride to and from work. I'd rather pay more than have cuts in service.

edEx

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:40:00 -0500

I have a better idea. The MTA should cut all service. NO Buses, no Trains, knock down the bridges so there's no maintenance to them either—this is the best way to save money—NO SERVICE! In fact, I prefer a city with no people at all. If there's no people here there's no crime. NO CRIME! --- away from my rant, this is disgraceful. And why was there a strike three years ago?

fugothamist

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:39:26 -0500

we should have a law that mandates companies to allow telecommuting for x% of their staff. reduce the load on the trains

emilydickinson

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:37:27 -0500

How they can possibly cut stops on the G train, it's already hideously bad. Running the overnight trains every half an hour is the worst in my opinion, that's going to be a nightmare.

fugothamist

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:36:46 -0500

as long as there are no union givebacks, i'm ok with this. just hands off the unions & their well deserved pensions

Tgirl

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:36:22 -0500

mismanaged is an understatement. Its a disgrace.

Wza

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:35:29 -0500

Good Ol' MTA

QM

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:34:18 -0500

I hate the MTA, I'm convinced it's simply mismanaged.

nomnomnom

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:31:19 -0500

They should cut the jobs first. Then as a last resort cut service. I can't believe that, for once, I agree with Vallone.

WesleySnipesAlot

Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:30:17 -0500

Urge to kill... rising...