ides, the child-raping Mormons are the ones who sponsored the proposition.

You are a bigot and hate-monger, right! Get your facts right, it was the likes of sects run by people like Warren Jeffs, who is not Mormon, who donated millions to the No on 8 campaign. Why?Because, they wish to legally imply that they have every civil right to marry as homosexuals.

By tingo:Lou Chibbaro, Jr., of the General Accounting Office of the Federal Government reports that at least 1049 federal laws provide benefits, rights and privileges to married couples. What does this have to do with Prop 8? Nothing at all. Same-sex marriage and civil unions in California get the same recognition under Federal law. None.

DOMA-Defense of Marriage Act: No state (or other political subdivision within the United States) need treat a relationship between persons of the same sex as a marriage, even if the relationship is considered a marriage in another state.

The Federal Government may not treat same-sex relationships as marriages for any purpose, even if concluded or recognized by one of the states.

By NannyState: You are obvioulsy a bigot. You said "I guess it's time to begin taxing the Catholic Church now that it is a political organization. I say juice 'em good because Uncle Sam always stands first in line ahead of the altarboy with the sore ass." The altar boy with the sore ass, you refer to was obvioulsy molested by a homosexual pedophile posing as a Catholic priest. It is a fact that NAMBLA membership is shaded because they promote membership into the Catholic priesthood as part of their gay pedophile agenda. 95% of the Catholic child molesters were homosexual, so what is your point.

NAMBLA's goal is to end the extreme oppression of men and boys in mutually consensual relationships by:

building understanding and support for such relationships;

educating the general public on the benevolent nature of man/boy love;

cooperating with lesbian, gay, feminist, and other liberation movements;

supporting the liberation of persons of all ages from sexual prejudice and oppression.

The North American Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) was founded in December 1978 and is an activist homosexual and pedophilia coalition group. Their primary aim is stated to be the overturn of statutory rape laws and reduction of “age of consent” laws that require a child be of a certain age (which varies by state) before they can agree to sexual intercourse.

CPUSA member Harry Hay, who is widely accredited as one of the founders of the gay rights activist movement in the United States, in his lifetime was a frequent speaker at NAMBLA conferences. Poet Allen Ginsberg was another famous members of NAMBLA.

The International Gay & Lesbian Archives, the world's largest research collection on gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered activism, has recognized several NAMBLA members for their contributions to the gay rights movement.

@felix:

No, I don't think babyhitler can show that. And no, childbearing has no relevance to state sanctioned marriage.

@babyhitler, 2 women through gay intercourse can produce a baby? I think not.

Check the list of donors to Prop 8 in the SF Chronicle website. A huge number of them are from Utah and have uptighty whitey names. But it's also interesting that the Knights of Columbus and the US conf. of Catholic Bishops donated more money directly than the Mormon Church. I guess it's time to begin taxing the Catholic Church now that it is a political organization. I say juice 'em good because Uncle Sam always stands first in line ahead of the altarboy with the sore ass.

Hey Angry_pickle:

Get your facts straight. Civil Unions don't offer the same benefits as Marraige... There are 1,049 benefits given to married couples..

And here is a list of civil union rights:

# Laws relating to title, tenure, descent and distribution, intestate succession, waiver of will, survivorship, or other incidents of the acquisition, ownership, or transfer (during life or at death) of real or personal property, including eligibility to hold property as tenants by the entirety.

# Causes of action related to or dependent upon spousal status, including an action for wrongful death, emotional distress, loss of consortium, dramshop, or other torts or actions under contracts reciting, related to, or dependent upon spousal status.

# Probate law and procedure, including non-probate transfer.

# Adoption law and procedure.

# Group insurance for state employees.

# Spouse abuse programs.

# Protection against discrimination based upon marital status.

# Victim's compensation rights.

# Workers' compensation benefits.

# Emergency and non-emergency medical care and treatment, hospital visitation and notification.

# Terminal care documents and durable power of attorney for health care execution and revocation.

# Family leave benefits.

# State public assistance benefits.

# State and municipal tax laws, except for estate tax provisions.

# Marital privilege and testimonial immunity laws.

# The homestead rights of a surviving spouse and homestead property tax allowance.

# Loans to veterans

# The definition of family farmer

# Making, revoking, and objecting to anatomical gifts by others.

# State pay for military service.

# Applications for absentee ballots.

# Family landowner rights to fish and hunt.

# Legal requirements for wage assignments.

# Affirmation of relationship.

Those aren't 1,049 benefits. That's more like 24.

Lou Chibbaro, Jr., of the General Accounting Office of the Federal Government reports that at least 1049 federal laws provide benefits, rights and privileges to married couples. A report listing all 1049 statutes by name and code number was commissioned in order to determine the implications of the Defense of Marriage Act which prohibits the Federal Government from recognizing gay and lesbian relationships.

But don't forget the real reason you're against it: Intolerance and hate.

Angry Pickel -

I agree with you, the government should be in the business of only granting civil unions to everyone. But they're not.

So since you believe that civil unions are the legal equivalent of marriage, will you please go ahead and get a divorce and instead get a civil union, and then lobby for all your straight married friends to get divorced and have civil unions instead?

Until you do, you are nothing but a HYPOCRITE.

#41, see #40. Well said.

ides, the child-raping Mormons are the ones who sponsored the proposition.

So then all of the enlightened intelligent Obama voters in California should have voted it down. Why didn't they? Are you saying the Mormons spending a few million dollars were able to get people to vote against their convictions? What does that say about the guy that just spent $600 million on the Presidency?

A lot of black people may have supported prop 8, which is said, but they were just voting their feelings. The Mormon Church, as an institution, was working to get even more people to vote that way. They were funding ads and outreach for it. I don't see how you can "protest" an individual for voting this way or that way, but it makes a lot of sense to me to protest an institution that was raising and spending money for this bigoted proposition.

This crap about Mormons "tipping the balance" is the NY Times clever way of whitewashing the fact the gaystapo are too chickenshit to protest the blacks, Asians and Muslims who also voted against gay marriage.

The Mormons are the politically correct, easy target being mostly white, a fringe group themselves and not likely to fight back.

The single largest group of donations for Prop 8, and the group that was most active in promoting it--not just voting for it, but getting out there and running ads and campaigning for it--was the Mormon church. If you look at a list of contributions to Prop 8, LDS contributors make up almost 50%. The anger is justifed.

If civil marriage is only a "legal definition" and provided only "legal protections", then what is the opposition to "civil union"?

Because civil unions do not provide all the same legal protections as civil marriage. In addition, it brings back the concept of "separate but equal." There is no reason why someone should have to receive a separate marriage/union license based on their sexual orientation. Every couple, gay or straight, should have access to the same standard government-issued marriage license.

You're confusing the religious definition of marriage with the legal definition and protections provided by civil marriage.

If civil marriage is only a "legal definition" and provided only "legal protections", then what is the opposition to "civil union"?

If civil unions had the exact same protections as marriage, homosexual couple and their friends wouldn't really care what it's called.

That's not true. If it were, they would push towards federal recognition of civil unions; instead they want something called "marriage". Maybe cause "civil union" doesn't sound romantic enough? Then someone should coin a new word derived from French.

But while all of my other friends have been able to show their love by getting married, they have not.

They can get a civil union. And what are they missing exactly by not being able to say "We're married"? Seems to me there is little to their relationship to begin with if it hinges on being able to say "we're married".

felix the cat, I have proof that two women can make a baby.

Interestingly, there are quite a few gay Americans that do not want gay marriage. They see their lifestyle as counter-cultural and non-conformist. They see gay marriage as becoming like mainstream America.

gays vs mormons. Why are you guys pissed off? it should be a good match. I say gays in ten rounds.

And I unfortunately agree with ides.

The people who voted yes on prop 8 spanned all races and socio-economic classes.

It's not just the mormon church - intolerance is everywhere.

If California can reap the tax benefits of gay couples then the state can recognize their marriages.

No gay taxation without gay representation. ;D

I hope this discriminatory law is reversed in the courts.

Gays blame mormons, when Gays should blame themselves for being even more hateful and bigoted than the Mormons.

#17, Lindsay Lohan doesn't like labels and states she is not a lesbian, also stated one day she will marry, perhaps to a man or woman. I don't know what she is except she is a whore.

If civivl unions had the exact same protections as marriage, homosexual couple and their friends wouldn't really care what it's called. But whereas marriage carries over a thousand recognized benefits, unions only have about 2 dozen, legally. That's the issue.

Some of the longest-together couples I know are gay. But while all of my other friends have been able to show their love by getting married, they have not.

No, they've been forced to remain outcasts in the society built by the majority. Albeit a majority that is slowly coming around as more open, educated, cultured young people fill in for the pointless hate, misunderstanding and bigotry that has pervaded our country. But that old majority was making a judgment based on faulty education pushed by those with a religious agenda.

Why does everyone fear gay people so much? Like gay marriage will make you or your kids gay or something? That's insane. If that's your fear, well you probably have a lot more to hide. As for the sanctity of marriage, straight people haven't paid much respect to that.

As for state recognizing it, as well as gay partners being able to adopt, that's a good thing.

The problem is that homosexuality, to a lot of closeminded people is considered a 'sin' or 'wrong' or somehow 'perverted.' But that is the old way of thinking, before science, before psychology has proven that it is just a part of the natural behavioral spectrum of the human condition. If you fall on the yellow side of the rainbow and have zero interest in same-sex relations, well that's you and good for you. But to not accept that people come in all natural variations and should therefore have the right to live happily within, doesn't make you a bigot, it makes you uneducated and ignorant of the truth.

Education helped people accept the basic rights of civil rights movements before. It will help again.