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Last night, hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people gathered for a protest outside the Church of Latter Day Saints' Manhattan Mormon Temple and march down Broadway to Columbus Circle. They were protesting California's passage of Proposition 8, which bans gay marriage; the Mormon Church is targeted because alot of support and funding for advertising to support Proposition 8 came from Mormons.
Streets were closed at the group made its way down the street. It was peaceful, but with many spirited chants. One marcher told the AP, "I'm fed up and disgusted with religious institutions taking political stances and calling them moral when it's nothing but politics. It's hypocrisy. Meanwhile, they enjoy tax-free status while trying to deny me rights." And a Mormon who protested against the church in Salt Lake City sent a letter to the Salt Lake Tribune--here's an excerpt:
It used to sting to hear people criticize my church's doctrines and leaders, but the sting of knowing that your neighbor can vote away your civil rights, not because they stand to be harmed in any way, but simply because they feel like it, is also profound. LDS faithful can walk away from the harsh words of anti-Mormons, but gays can't walk away from Prop. 8 unscathed.However, in a SL Trib article after a Prop 8 protest, a senior fellow at the New America Foundation, Joe Matthews (who supports gay marriage), told the Trib attacking the Mormon church might be "counterproductive... Mormons are unpopular and the church went a long way in diving into this issue. But it doesn't make long-term strategic sense. You are appealing to religious bigotry and I don't think that's a good idea. You need to convince people of faith that they're not under attack."
If I were gay, I would much rather that someone say they hate me and leave me alone than claim to love me and treat me the way Mormons have treated the gay community.
Today, the County of Los Angeles is joining one of three lawsuits to overturn Prop 8. LA County is joining the City and County of San Francisco, County of Santa Clara and City of Los Angeles in the case.
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Shouldn't New Yorkers be celebrating what happened in Connecticut today rather than protesting something in a state we have nothing to do with? Not only that, but NY itself will likely legalize gay marriage soon.
This is anti-religion and we have bash back terrorist disrupting church services and vandalizing them in Michigan. This is not about equality but about forcing their beliefs unto us. why is it that prayers are not permitted in public schools yet now they teach same sex marriages to children in Mass. this is not about equality or civil rights. No one is against Civil union but they don't want equality but domination. Separate but equal? Since when did gays have to use separate facilities. boycott LGBt and APPLE for donating money against freedom of religion.
shame on Mormons? shame on you for using your child to promote gay marriage. I hope child services take away your child before you totally screw him up.
anyhow, I didn't see any public display of affection, i guess they leave the makeout sessions for us to view in public restaurants,.
I make a deal with you guys, if just one gay couple can produce a child naturally then you can marry, I even walk the brides down the aisle. (p.s. sex changed individuals not included). If one MAN/MAN couple or WOMAN/WOMAN couple produces a child through gay intercourse then I will support your right to marry
While I cherish the freedom to assemble and protest, these sad souls do not like others to exercise their right vote. A clear majority of people want to keep marriage between one man and one woman. The propaganda job by these amoral fascists is akin to what you saw in Nazi Germany (targeting of a small religious element, fear mongering, and violence).
I can't help but think of the Mormon Church's prophetic Proclamation to the Family issued over a decade ago, "...we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets."
In addition to divorce and abuse, homosexual marriage will lead to the disintegration of the family and our society.
(I dare you guys to protest rappers)
A rapper who is best-known for his work with Eminem has warned gay and lesbian people that his new album contains extreme homophobic lyrics.
In an interview with All Hip Hop, performer Trick Trick said:
“I’ma go on the record right now with this. Homosexuals are probably not gonna like this album.
“I don’t want your faggot money any goddamn way. I don’t like it. Carry that shit somewhere else.”
His latest album, The Villain, was produced by Eminem. In it he refers to lesbian stars Ellen Degeneres and Rosie O'Donnell as "dyke bitches."
"Every time that you turn on the TV, that sissy shit is on," said Trick Trick.
"And they act like its f**king okay.
“The world is changing for the worst when shit like that happens. And I address that issue. I address it hard as hell.”
The album features Eminem on the track Who Want It and Let It Fly features Ice Cube. 50 Cent also appears on the album.
In the end, the democratic process must be allowed to work. There was nothing unfair about the election. Everyone had (1) vote. Everyone cast that (1) vote according to their belief and the votes were tallied providing the final result. That is the strength of our state and nation. That is the example of democracy we demonstrate to the entire world. How foolish we must look when the world sees that the very election process we hold-up so proudly before them is really for naught and the voice of the majority is ultimately unrecognized, ridiculed and overridden.
wow, any gays out there?
felix, COME OUT OF THE CLOSET ALREADY!
I think we all get the hint that you're religious felix.
Especially after the last 20-30 comments you've made in various--including non-Prop 8--posts.
No, really. We understand.
You like God or whatever.
That's.. cool. I guess.
This is not a democracy, it's a cheerocracy. I'm sorry, but I'm overruling you.
These churches are nothing but political organizations that exist only to promote their ideology. If they stuck to their religious knitting no one would attend their services, and more importantly, the collection plate would be bare. Churches should be banned.
Oh, and felixthecat, you really are a creepy, hateful piece of shit wrenched from the ass of a dead dog.
I despise religion and religions of all kinds. To me they are exercises fantastical thinking that ignore the reality of the world and the way things work. For me religion = bullshit.
The Mormons are not above criticism when criticism is warranted - no religion is. To say that a protest against these bigots is "counterproductive" is saying that this group should be can spoon shit into the mouths of anyone they want and those people are not even allowed to complain about it. Mormons are one notch above Scientologists, the only difference being that science fiction had not yet been defined as a genre when it was conceived.
That was awesome. I bet those mormons learned a lesson last night. Mormons should stay out of politics! That goes for the catholics too, and the muslims.
What's in a name? That's what the problem is here. Society identifies the marriage institution as a practical and symbolic manifestation of it's desire for regeneration and projection into the future. Marriage as we know it is a magical fertility right involving a "monogamous" commitment between opposite genders. What would it's objective be in redefining that?
religion is anachronistic. just a bunch of stupid stories by a bunch of ignorant people thousands of years ago. grow up idiots...
Heres an idea Felix, any heterosexual couple who cannot or does not produce a child must immediately get divorced. Any woman over menopause age must immediately divorce their husbands. Is that what you're saying?
"I make a deal with you guys, if just one gay couple can produce a child naturally then you can marry, I even walk the brides down the aisle. (p.s. sex changed individuals not included). If one MAN/MAN couple or WOMAN/WOMAN couple produces a child through gay intercourse then I will support your right to marry"
Ridiculous argument. Does that mean that infertile heterosexual couples should have their marriages made null and void? How about straight couples that decide on their own not to have children? Where in a marriage license does procreation come into play?
The mass-murderous attacks of 9-11 certainly qualified as religious hatred. Why was nobody protesting in front of a mosque then?
How come when muslims commit religious intolerance, the debate is about "understanding their rage" and "reaching out" to them and other warm and fuzzy rhetoric? When Mormons are the perceived intolerant ones, nobody has any qualms about directing their unbridled fury right at them.
The people of California voted democratically on an issue: you lost. Too bad.
"Mormons should stay out of politics! That goes for the catholics too, and the muslims."
So you're saying only atheists can vote, run for office or excercize their right to free speech. Josef Stalin would agree with you.
I think we protested the 9-11 religious hatred by dropping several thousand bombs on them, right? That's what it came down to, their religion fueled the hatred. Remember all the religious attacks on Muslims here after the attacks - all that towel-head talk? Probably not since I get the feeling you and felix are from some flyover nutjob state like Kansas where the Westboro nuts are. Keep right on hating. That's what kkkristians do best.
The Church of Mormon is a specific denomination of a religion, with a clearly defined leadership and membership structure, that actively promoted and took part in a specific campaign to attack the equal rights of other Americans. As opposed to Islam - the largest religion in the world, with several different denominations, groups, and leaders, all with very different ideas of what Islam means to them.
So yes Ides, you once again prove yourself to be an ignorant bigot who somehow manages to use one thread of hatred and intolerance to display your irrational rage towards not one, but two groups of people.
Way to hit those two birds with the one stone.
felix the cat's children will all be dick suckers in the future like ronald reagan's son is. It's karma
Ladies and gentlemen, I have some bad news I have to break to you: living in a democracy does not mean you get your way every time. Just ask a McCain voter.
Actually ides -- our democracy is not designed so voters may oppress minorities by simple majority. The constitutionality of Prop 8 is very much in question. Moreover, most civil rights movements were NOT won by majority approval of the electorate. If that's all our democracy was, our country would be looking a lot different right now.
Jeez. The religious whackos love to mobilize for their BS causes, so why prompt them. You'll never win.
Use any term you like that isn't 'marriage' and everyone will be happy, and the rest of us can go back to watching 'Idol'.
The only folks who truly benefit from gay 'marriage' are the divorce lawyers and the wedding industry. Marriage lost its 'sanctity' long ago, if it ever had it in the first place.
The divorce rate is equal to a coin toss.
Please let everyone get married-fight for your right to do so. Then suffer the consequences when you need to get divorced. Good times people...
Splicer:
Mormons are one notch above Scientologists, the only difference being that science fiction had not yet been defined as a genre when it was conceived.
I compared the two religions the other day, but your sci-fi theory is absolutely brilliant! I'm all for religious freedom (and freedom FROM religion), but the tax-exemption issue needs to be examined for all churches, especially these two.
so apparently all the religious crazies get on here way early.
last night was wonderful; there were thousands of people there, not hundreds and saturday is going to be even bigger.
people should not be allowed to donate money for state referendums that are on the ballot states other than their own. period.
to clarify: people should not be allowed to donate money for state referendums that are on the ballot IN states other than their own. period.
its still early.
"Jesus Said Love Bitches" picture...Brad Pitt?
ANOTHER issue (which, don't et me wrong, it's important) to DIVIDE Americans with while other more important issues related to the Economy and politics go unnotice.....
wow. according to felix, trick trick isn't afraid to show how ignorant and afraid he is of someone different than himself - if in fact he is different. sounds like he's protesting too much to me.
afraid to boycott a rapper....please.
All the defenders of Proposition 8 seem to neglect the fact that your arguments are based upon religious intent and definitions of marriage; and sided by homophobics and general douchebag-types of all creeds.
The procreation argument? Should infertile women or impotent men not be allowed to marry as well? What about those who are paralyzed? Your damn dirty religions justified slavery, still justify massacres and murder. Your flimsy moral code is the reason why Blacks, Filipinos and Asians weren't allowed to marry White people until 1967.
They aren't inflicting anything upon any of you if they have the right to marry. They just want the same rights as you do. GOD DAMN YOU for trying to take away another's rights in the USA. Hypocrisy on ALL levels. Go back to the dark ages where you fear-mongering, anti-logic, and poisonous rhetoric would be appreciated.
My POINT is the marriage is BASED upon that desire for regeneration and projection into the future. The infertile couple or non-procreative couple SYMBOLIZES the monogamous union of the opposite genders which continues life of society into the future. By definition same sex marriages do NOT, so they are seeking to appropriate the "glow" of a title that does not fit. In a civil mundane sense of course it makes sense to grant REAL privileges to gay couples but the argument is over a signifier and it's meaning.
User "Equality For All" is looking at the situation from too narrow of a viewpoint legally and in terms of the republic's founding principles--many of which were in tension with each other, but not necessarily mutually exclusive. One person/one vote was not intended to be the final formula for all matters. The judicial branch exists in part to protect the rights of the minority from what many of the founding fathers referred to as (when it suited them to) "the tyranny of the majority."
A similar principle is at work behind the Bill of Rights.
If racial segregation had been bound to state referenda, it would have ended much later than it did in much of the South and Appalachia, and in some states might very well exist still today.
One outstanding question now is whether the established rights of a minority should be allowed to be taken away by a simple majority vote in a state referendum. It must be said, few states' constitutions are as easy to change as California's--even when it comes to the stripping of a granted right, which is the case with Proposition 8--which has been amended more than 500 times. More typical is for a state legislative super-majority of some sort to be required either before, after, or without a referendum, and any relevant referenda requiring more than simply 50+% of the vote for passage.
Slightly unrelated: I think gay rights advocates would be unwise to expect a case in the US Supreme Court relating to Proposition 8 to go their way, though I could be dead wrong. The Supreme Court sometimes lags popular opinion and sometimes does not. Keep in mind, it is an institution also capable of ruling that a slave is property, not a person, as it did shortly before the Civil War in the Dred Scott decision. It has to balance the will of the majority with the rights of the minority, and that has in the past led many times to rulings that one minority or another was disappointed by.
"people should not be allowed to donate money for state referendums that are on the ballot states other than their own. period."
Are you also against all the campaign contributions Obama too from foreign sources?
Regarding mrmagoo's comment: it's a concept worth exploring, but I suspect a limitation on out-of-state funding would not hold up in court. If attempted, it would likely run afoul of free speech rights, as several campaign finance laws have.
I could really use another cup of coffee.
Just sayin'
Chris Lee: I think it'd fit right in. Adoption is the intent. Marriage is about love between two people. Redefinition is what we need.
Can any anti-gay marriage people actually tell me how gay marriage affects straight peoples lives adversely? What is there to be scared of?
felixthegaycat
"the Mormon Church is targeted because alot of support and funding for advertising to support Proposition 8 came from Mormons."
I have yet to see any proof of that.
The Mormons are a small, marginalized and weakly defended group and that's the real reason they've been singled out by the gay mobs. This is how bullies operate.
Until the gay establishment starts demonstrating against all the religions that oppose homosexual marriage, then they are guilty of descrimination themselves. I don't care how much they try to rationalize it.
Well I guess that finally solves the problems with prop 8. Next issue?
this was a stupid protest.
as someone on towelroad wrote:
"However, in reference to a previous post here about the "rogue" Democrats in the NY State Assembly, who are trying to force the issue of gay marriage off the table, is anyone protesting against them?
Has anyone planned a protest at Senator Ruben Diaz's home, or in his district? He seems to be single-handedly able to prevent the NY Assembly from considering marriage equality. Wouldn't the efforts of the GLBT residents of NY be better served by directly confronting the bigots in their midst, who actually have the power to prevent marriage equality?"
emphasis mine.
What a shame the Mormon church chose to promote the legislation of hate. I'm glad some people haven't forgotten the USA was built on civil dissent; keep on marching!
'One marcher told the AP, "I'm fed up and disgusted with religious institutions taking political stances and calling them moral when it's nothing but politics. It's hypocrisy. Meanwhile, they enjoy tax-free status while trying to deny me rights."'
no dummy, you live in nyc.
the mormons didn't deny you any rights.
prop 8 was in california.
zodak, you miss the point. It's a NATIONAL CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUE.
@46: Do you watch the news? Read the paper? Mormon church leaders asked their flock to support Proposition 8 with time and money.
ides:
It's pretty common knowledge that Mormons bankrolled prop 8. Just one example:
"Sunday's event in Oakland targets the Mormon church, which supported Proposition 8 by donating more than 70 percent of the money raised to support the measure." - San Jose Mercury News 11/08/08
zodak:
So let me get this straight. We can only protest things in New York that happen in New York? Gotcha buddy. And people aren't protesting the Mormons for denying them their rights. They're protesting them for *supporting* the deprivation of their rights.
Felix: You are allowed to preach all you want. You are also free to embrace discrimination. Totally fine. But the government isn't. And that's what's going to change. This is a tide you cannot turn back.
Well, if it's in the San Jose Mercury news, it must be absolute truth, dare I say Gospel?
@Staightisgreat:
"A clear majority of people want to keep marriage between one man and one woman."
A majority of people wanted to keep marriage between men and women of the same race. It took the courts to strike that down.
A majority of people wanted to keep blacks out of public facilities. It took the courts to strike that down.
I suppose all civil rights movements are the product of "amoral fascists" in your mind?
IS the argument over equality or equivocation?
Felix the Little Kitty:
you're such a bigotted loser—take your beliefs and place them where they are most appropriate. you may need to stand up first.
if you don't want a gay marriage, don't marry a man.
you want prayers in school? which ones? i went to school with friends of at least 10 different organized religions. which ones would you like us to say? oh that's right, YOURS, because in this world YOU are all that counts.
get over it and start thinking about something important like how you're going to move out of your parent's basement.
Ides. It was just the first one that popped up. I thought about posting all the newspaper hits that I came up with, but I knew it wouldn't make a difference for you. Shocker.
BackStJoe: you're right, i missed the point & so did every newspaper, tv station & blog, even the co-organizer missed the point because they all keep referring to as a "protest against prop 8."
spnder: i said their time & efforts would be better spent marching on someone who is directly affecting them instead of something that doesn't affect them at all & was already voted on.
"And people aren't protesting the Mormons for denying them their rights. They're protesting them for *supporting* the deprivation of their rights.
that justs proves my point that this is a stupid misguided protest.
Zodak, it WAS a protest against prop 8. It was NY showing support for the civil rights of their West Coast brothers and sisters. What is there not to understand about it??
we don't live in a 'majority rules' country. that's not how our government is run. if we did, we would have had a President Gore in 2000. i'm sure none of you against gay marriage said anything about 'activist judges' when they ruled in favor of the Republicans in Bush v Gore.
never before has a 'majority' voted to take away a minority's rights in this country. it's unconstitutional, and will be corrected AGAIN by the California Supreme Court.
and this is absolutely a national issue. does anyone really believe civil rights are state's issues? i'd suggest a civics class or two.
and the Mormon church should absolutely lose their tax exempt status, as should every other church that contributed monetarily or otherwise to this unconstitutional 'amendment.'
I like how all the guys against gay marriage think they've got it in the bag when everybody can see the writing on the wall. In 5 years gay marriage will be allowed in half the states. I guarantee it. Add up the combined powers of Zac Efron, Clay Aiken, and spongebob squarepants and voters who come of age will vote for gay rights. It's just an eventualiity. You guys should watch this mr. show skit called "RACIST IN THE YEAR 3000". In it, the main protagonists rail against mixed race species but they themselves gay. It just goes to show you that even after the acceptance of gays, the future will breed hate for klingons and ferengi and robots.
BackStJoe: i can't understand why people would waste so much time & effort "showing support" instead of,
oh,
i don't know,
maybe,
doing something productive?
this reminds me of that south park episode with the mormon church story and the song about joseph smith and his followers that went: "dumbdumbdumb dumbduuuuuuumb"
religion should stay far far far away from civil rights. this isn't about reproduction, this is about the right to CHOOSE how to live and who to love. and it's not like the passing of proposition 8 will curb homosexuality, you crazy ass mormons! i'm sure it'll get reversed, because this shit ain't constitutional. i'm sick of conservatives trying to keep the USA in the 1950s. abortions and gay sex will still happen, people. so let's just have it out in the open and move on.
"I make a deal with you guys"
Ooh! We didn't realize that you were the Boss Of The World.
felixthecat, stop using a good cat's name to post your retarded views.
Those protest signs are pretty clever!
spongebob squarepants is my lover. He's kind of scruffy but with a little water he becomes very absorbent.
Man, I liked it better when felix was foaming at the mouth with the cat-kicker stories. Instead of foaming at the mouth with anti-gay stories.
WINKWINK
Zodak, they did something productive; they marched in protest. You know...like millions have done through out the United States history?
To condemn people from speaking up is unamerican!
first of you, I am not gay. I know you guy need to label everyone gay and every action gay to make yourself feel better. Ok, I am GAY and I am against GAY marriage. I support equal civil unions. Also nitwits, I did not say every couple must produce a child to marry, I said if ONE GAY couple in the whole wide world can produce a chile through GAY INTERCOURSE then I will be the first one to support GAY Marriages (p.s. no sex changers included in this challenge)
If you hate religion then that is your belief but those impose it unot us. Like I said this is no about equality but about socialization. you want to impose your belief unto us and your hatred for God and Religion is quite evident in your remarks. If those bash back ever tried that stunt in my church I would choke them to death
first of you, I am not gay. I know you guy need to label everyone gay and every action gay to make yourself feel better. Ok, I am GAY and I am against GAY marriage. I support equal civil unions. Also nitwits, I did not say every couple must produce a child to marry, I said if ONE GAY couple in the whole wide world can produce a CHILD through GAY INTERCOURSE then I will be the first one to support GAY Marriages (p.s. no sex changers included in this challenge)
If you hate religion then that is your belief but those impose it unot us. Like I said this is no about equality but about socialization. you want to impose your belief unto us and your hatred for God and Religion is quite evident in your remarks. If those bash back ever tried that stunt in my church I would choke them to death
Also, i am not anti-gay, i don't care who you bonk.
love
Because Jesus was all about choking people to death...what a maroon!
@felixthecat:
I'm still amused by your "they're imposing beliefs on me!" reverse psychology canard. I suppose by eating bacon for breakfast in my own home this morning, I was imposing my beliefs on Jews everywhere?
Oh, and you saying "I am not anti-gay" is like saying "I'm not racist, I just don't think blacks should have rights".
#51 nitwits, the mormon church did not donate money to the yes side for prop 8, it was many people of religious faith including mormon. In fact I will contact the shareholders and ask how is APPLE a public company permitted to use shareholder money to promote gay marriage????
if my pastor ask me to follow my faith then he and the church would be under attack? nitwits coward, where are all the pinkies protesting rapper Trick Trick for saying he don't want for FAGGOT money? where are all the pinkes protesting the blacks who supported Prop 8? No you are not for equality, you just hate God and anything that you don't agree with. Again, if those bash back tried that in my church, I would ram the bible down their throats.
#73 nitwit, if the govt decides to redefine Kosher to include pork then yes you are imposing your beliefs unto them
i am not anti-gay or pro-gay, honestly you guy need the attention. but now you are trying to redefine marriage and force us to conform and that is unacceptable.
felix, why do you keep bringing up trick trick? who gives a sh*t what some ignorant ass thinks? did he even go to school? and guess what, there are many, many gay people that are also religious. idiot.
The "pregnant man" is eating for two - again.
Just four months after giving birth to a healthy baby girl, Thomas Beatie has told ABC News he is expecting another child next spring.
This is the agenda and the kook aid that they will fed to us, same sex marriages and that men give birth and you won't have any say over it. your children and church will be forced to conform because it is the law of the land
#77, so if gay are religious then they know that a marriage is btw man and woman and man and woman produce child, so why are they going against their belief to redefine marriage and impose it unto the churches.
Felixthecat - did Trick Trick get that name in prison? I bet he did, didn't he?
#79 how the hell should I know where he got his name from? the point is that you pinkies' panties don't get wound up about him or the blacks who opposed gays but you go against mild religious mormons because you are cowards. Pink color suits you just fine.
felix: are you not aware that many religious denominations have for years performed same-sex marriages? or are you suggesting that public policy should merely match the religious views of 'majority' or 'preferred' religions?
if it is an 'imposition' on your religion to allow same-sex marriage, it is then equally an imposition on these other denominations for the state to not recognize their validly-performed same-sex marriages.
also, re: the 'pregnant man' - is he forcing your church to marry him? is he forcing your church to baptize his children? if not, then who the fuck cares?
finally, i don't give a crap about you or your religion "conforming" or agreeing with same-sex marriage. we live in a country with both freedom of speech and freedom of religion - so you can continue to spout off your insane rants, while i should be able to marry the person of my chosing. i understand you would chose a different person, but, hey, it's America - if you wanted to live in a theocracy, i suggest moving to Iran - i'm sure your fundamentalist views would be appreciated there.
felix, perhaps their religion doesn't think the same way yours does. ever noticed that is more than one religion in this world?
btw, with all of your hate and the language you use, your setting a great example of a church goer. keep up the good work.
@felixthecat:
If you can pause from your name calling tantrum for a bit, would you care to address the issue of the Supreme Court overturning bans on interracial marriage? This was a case of the court acting against the will of the majority to "impose their beliefs" on people whose religion defined marriage as being between one man and one woman of the same race. Should we re-institute those bans as well?
By the way, the institution of marriage is not a religious entity, at least not as far government involvement is concerned. You can indeed get married without involving any religious ceremony, and I know many people for whom this is the case.
pinkies?
are you calling gays communists now?
and, btw, i agree that blacks overwhelmingly supporting Prop 8, but that is definitely a religious versus a simple racial issue. also, while many other churches were involved in the Yes on 8 campaign, it is hard to ignore the fact that the campaign was largely organized and supported by the Mormon church.
and don't worry - i am upset with Trick Trick - but, no offense, the insane rantings of a person no one even listens to (huh, look who i'm talking to!) regarding his own personal homophobia is probably just SLIGHTLY less significant to the gay community right now than marriage equality.
pinkies is what you guys referred to yourself, I seen the marchers yesterday wearing pink wife beaters and pink hankies. It look like a bad Bristol Myers commercial
#83 where in the bible does it prohibit marriage between different races? where in the bible is Adam and Eve race identified? people of different races can produce child. The fact that not one gay couple can produce a child through gay intercourse proves to me that it is not a sacred union.
I am not wasting my time anymore discussing my beliefs. we all have different beliefs. the issue is that now Govt and the Pink Agenda want to impose their beliefs unto us. in regard to the example #72 Chester, if govt decides to redefine kosher to include pork than all business can label pork products as kosher since it is legal. then pork eaters would say why should jew impose their beliefs unto us let them have they own stores with their own kosher products. This is happening in Mass., since gay marriage is legal, gay marriage is taught in schools and parents have no say. and if a parent is against then the pro gay respond "put your child in a private school that doesn't teach homosexuality" . A church adoption center was closed after 100 years since it wouldn't pass children in gay families. since it is the law of the land, Mass withheld funding. this is wrong, i can the govt force us to comply against our beliefs. this is not about equality but about destroying freedom of religion.
Felix:
Why does the outcome of marriage have to be children? People marry because of love. And then some have children.
So, do all straight couples need to have children in order to be considered "married?"
It's obvious no one is going to change your opinion, but it's a pretty fucked up, archaic opinion based on fear and hatred, and certainly not love.
"The fact that not one gay couple can produce a child through gay intercourse proves to me that it is not a sacred union."
well, shit, if it's not a sacred union then we MUST stop it. was Britney Spears' 2-day vegas wedding a 'sacred union'?
btw, what the fuck is a 'sacred union'?
i noticed that you have yet to respond to the fact that different religions have very different conceptions of what constitutes, as you put it, a 'sacred union.' apparently, marriage laws should conform to the marriage rites of your own personal beliefs, right? i mean, you are not trying to impose your personal religious beliefs on the rest of us, right? oh wait, that's exactly what you want - nevermind.
someone more brilliant than me once said that 'every sperm is sacred' - so isn't two dudes twice as sacred as a man and a woman?
A church adoption center was closed after 100 years since it wouldn't place children in gay families. since it is the law of the land, Mass withheld funding. this is wrong, how can the govt force us to comply against our beliefs. this is not about equality but about destroying freedom of religion?
i have to return to work before my boss cans my gay ass.
I will read all you gays and gay supporters' words of intolerance and attack against freedom later
Look in the mirrors, you gays/gays supporters are the real oppressors. it like a page from Orwell's animal farm.
You hate us so much and you hate your beliefs and your love for God. shame on you, oppressors, i feel like a third class citizen
#88 damn, not all couples, I say just one, only uno, gay couple in the whole wide world, in the whole universe produce one child through gay intercourse and then i will change my beliefs.
Felix, you didn't answer the question.
By YOUR standards, do all straight couples need to produce children in order to be considered "married?"
Why does it offend you so much if gay people want to get married--under the WORD "married".
You say you don't have a problem with gays having "civil unions" so why is marriage such a stretch for you?
stupid, sperms are not sacred, otherwise I would have consecrated a lot of public places.
this is not about equality but a clash of differing beliefs.
felix, re 87:
the massachusetts examples are point to are red herrings. yes, there are legitimate questions raised regarding the tensions between freedom of religion and equality. massachusetts has made its own determinations on this point. if you have an issue with that, propose changing the educational or adoption laws. but banning same-sex marriage b/c it may have some negative knock-on effects for certain quasi-religious functions is ridiculous. it is no different than requiring all religious institutions that provide certain public services to make certain accommodations (such as hiring non-members, etc.) when providing such services.
also, since when is the provision of adoption services a certain tenant of the catholic church? the church was providing a public service which required it to follow certain state law. the fact that the adoption agency in question chose to close down rather than to consider gay couples for adoptions speaks much more about the church's willingness to put its own social views ahead of the public good, than it does about the state imposing itself in religion.
also, what exactly are these schools teaching about marriage? i'm pretty sure that never came up when i was a kid (i can't even imagine when it would). if you're upset at the fact that some primary school kids may be exposed to something as shocking as the idea of tolerance for gays and lesbians or the undeniable fact that, yes, Virginia, gays do exist and can get married - then perhaps you need to stick your head in the sand until the rapture comes to save you from us heathens.
and why can you gays be happy with equal civil unions?
#95 that is why civil unions for all including non religious people should be done by govt. govt should not tamper with our beliefs and redefine marriage to appease others with different beliefs.
and what i want my children to learn is my business. my children and all of us people of faith will teach children that man and women produce children and that it is the union God made.
#89, it would help if you clarify what religion supports gay marriage so i can respond.
Why is the bride smiling on her wedding day? She knows she has given her last blowjob.
I think it's hilarious that you don't want the government to tamper with your beliefs, considering how many religious people vote based on religion, rather than politics.
I have no problem with people who want to worship their god, however they choose, as long as it's non-violent. I just don't understand why they feel the need to have their beliefs effect other people. No one is asking you to turn your home into a church that marries gay people. So, why does it bother you so much?
#95, you are wrong about that, it is our beliefs and people who place their children in catholics adoptions believe the church will follow it beliefs. There are many adoptions places, why force church to place children in gay families. it is against our belief. You are forcing us to conform to your beliefs.
#101, cmon, what person doesn't vote based on their beliefs???? we all vote based on our beliefs. you probably believe in gay marriages and vote that way,don't you?
ok we all have a right to our opinions. the mormons have every right to give their money to parties opposed to gay marriage. and the supporters of gay marriage have every right to protest. both are given those rights by the constitution. to deny either of these parties their basic freedom is unconstitutional. freedom of religion and freedom from religion go hand in hand, but we all have one voice.
if the majority of voters in california wanted to declare marriage as between a man and a women, then that is the ruling. new york state will get its chance to voice its opinion soon enough. and if new york state decides against gay marriage, then so be it.
but seriously, i'm fairly conservative and i'm really trying to figure out how two men getting married affects me. and i really have come up with no scenario that it is any of my business. i like girls, they like guys. great, now lets go back to our own business.
if we told the religious fanatics that gays will never ever have an abortion, do you think that would change their mind?
felix the pussy will never, ever answer this question:
Why should anyone in the US of A EVER conform to your bible and your kkkristian views? Why do you believe that your religion is the only religion or the right religion? forget the whole gay issue, since you are so stuck on the religious aspects. do you not recognize Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam? do you not realize that most religious people in the world believe they are 'right' but also recognize everyone has the right to worship as they see fit?
and #100 is telling jokes circa 1992. fantastic
Sure, we all vote based on our beliefs, but I feel as though a lot of conservative voters cast their votes on issues that have more to do with the church, rather than the state. I mean, why else was Sarah Palin picked as McCain's running mate? It certainly wasn't based on her knowledge of anything. It was just to please the folks that thought McCain wasn't religious enough. They use the poor, religious people as pawns. Why else would some poor person vote for a candidate that was perfectly happy to let the lower and middle class to pay more taxes, while the ultra-rich continue to get tax breaks? Gay marriage and abortion are all diversions, and really have nothing to do with the way this country is run.
And while I don't agree with Proposition 8 at all, at least it was handled by the state.
#104 this is how it will affects you
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/marriage/effects_of_ssm.html
and #105 stop your drama bitch, this is not a civil issue so stop using the KKK arguments. that is why blacks want to kick your ass for trying to use their history to justify your attack on god and religion.
#107 this is not about Palin, stop stereotyping anyone who believes in God. Who won? Obama. So stop stereotyping/attacking anyone who believes in God. How would you like it if I say every Gay person is a freak, has Aids, has multiple partners, etc. ?
ttp://bashbacknews.wordpress.com/
why dont these pinkies go after the black communities? bunch of pink cowards.
http://bashbacknews.wordpress.com/
I apologize if you think I'm stereotyping everyone who believes in god. I know plenty of people who believe in god, but support gay marriage. It's some of the ultra-religious that piss me off, because many times their message in one of intolerance. And there's absolutely no evidence that gay people are ruining our society. I have gay relatives and work with gay people. They're human being just like anyone else, and deserve the same respect and rights that heterosexuals deserve. This is about equality. And if you're against equality, you're against what this country is supposed to stand for.
Catholic Charities is the largest Charitable Organization in the US. Look how many charities, hospitals, schools etc. and relief services are funded through the generosity of Catholics. Salavation Army another Christian Charity does tremendous work. Red Cross (notice the Cross) ditto. I didn't find any GLBT,NAMBLA, charity that serves the population outside their own interests. You call it fighting for your rights, but you already are able to be h0m0 in America.
#112, then why can't gay be happy with EQUAL civil unions.
ok felix but now we are confusing two different arguments. the first is gay marriage and the second is shoving gay marriage down the throat of the education system.
what you have provided is unacceptable behavior by the state of mass. if gay marriage was legalized, it should not be given any special treatment. so yes, there i agree, this would be unacceptable.
but to say that since it is legalized it will create more gay couples is in a way naive. i mean, its not like being gay is illegal now. in fact, it is perfectly legal.
just keep it out of the schools.
#113, it can't be keep out of schools in Mass because if is the law of the land. they can't have prayers in schools (which I agree) but they can have homosexual teaching in schools. that is why we can't redefine marriage. why can't gays be happy with EQUAL civil unions? because it it is agenda to attack those who don't share their same beliefs.
#115, it can't be keep out of schools in Mass because if is the law of the land. they can't have prayers in schools (which I agree) but they can have homosexual teaching in schools. that is why we can't redefine marriage. why can't gays be happy with EQUAL civil unions? because it it is agenda to attack those who don't share their same beliefs.
when I question someone in regards to Mass, they state we have to put children in private schools if we don't agree. this is why I am against redefining marriage. not as all the intolerable people insulated that I am gay or a KKK or a religious fanatic. I am fighting for my beliefs.
Why should they have to be happy with equal civil unions? Why can't they be "married?"
Personally, with the way the church is fighting for the word "marriage," I'd be fine with calling everything a civilian union, and getting rid of the word marriage altogether.
#118 agreed but the gay movement doesn't want that.
trust me, unlike most other freaks on this website, i completely respect your right to voice your opinion. i happen to disagree with that opinion, but i don't feel the need to start throwing boogers at you like most of these intolerant fools fighting for tolerance on this website.
the fact that they are preaching tolerance but have no tolerance for your point of view is disgraceful.
Well, gay people are not looking to get rid of the word "marriage," because they don't want to take away anyone's rights. They just want the same rights.
Catholic Charities is the largest Charitable Organization in the US. Look how many charities, hospitals, schools etc. and relief services are funded through the generosity of Catholics. Salavation Army another Christian Charity does tremendous work. Red Cross (notice the Cross) ditto. I didn't find any GLBT,NAMBLA, charity that serves the population outside their own interests. You call it fighting for your rights, but you already are able to be h0m0 in America.
First the religious fanatics attacked people's intelligence as elitist and now you fanatics are attacking people of faith as Palin's fanatics.
this is not about equality but a clash of beliefs. if this was about equality then Equal civil unions would easily pass. but now they want to attack faith based people which explains the attacks on the Mormons.
#121, leave marriage alone, let us practice our beliefs and they can have they own religions and they can have EQUAL civil unions. it is not separate. They won't be separate city halls for different unions.
What you're missing is that you are still allowed to "practice your beliefs." Letting gay people have their share in the word "marriage" doesn't change anything about how you pray, worship, live, etc. I don't understand why you don't get that.
Oh well.
and i don't get why equal civil unions can't be accepted? what is the agenda to redefine marriage? and please don't say separate but equal. since when did gays have to use any separate facilities.
No is trying to redefine YOUR marriage. You can still marry someone of the opposite sex if you choose to do so. And then if you want, you can have kids, or not.
It's not like all of a sudden you have to be gay because gay people are allowed to marry each other. I know you understand that, but you seem to be forgetting it.
Felix, I think you misunderstand the word "equal".
Your definition of "equal" is the same definition that sent black children to "equal" schools as whites, that required black people to use "equal" restrooms as whites, and that forced black people to sit "equally" in the back of the bus.
@felix, re:#87
You can justify many, many things using the Bible, and banning interracial marriage is just one of those. A little quick research shows Christians who use the stories of Phinehas and Ham's curse as justification for their stance against interracial marriages. I personally know Christians who are against interracial marriage.
If you haven't seen people twist Bible passages to support outlandish views, then you haven't been spending enough time in church.
Wow - Do you think God really wants people to spend their time and energy stopping two people who care about each other from making a loving commitment?
Aren't there homeless and sick people to care for?
I honestly can't believe this subject gets people so riled up. We live in such a harsh and dangerous world that anytime two adults find love, we should celebrate and foster it, not destroy or margenalize it.
If you want to protect marriage, ban divorce.
If you don't like gay marriage, don't get one.
And if your so religious - get a real cause to champion.
I don't know why felix the cat is against gay people. Imagine if the gay guys became straight. Do you know how much harder it would be for felix the cat to get laid knowing he had to compete with previously gay dudes for some tittyballs? i bet in an alternate universe felix the cat would be home wishing that straight dudes were gay.
Wow - Do you think God really wants people to spend their time and energy stopping two people who care about each other from making a loving commitment? THE ANSWER IS YES, SQUIRREL.
The homeless people are better off than, the gay people who are caught up in their confusion and sin unto death. God says that homosexuality is an abomination, but that is not the issue. God ordained only two instituations, the Church and marriage.
At the start of the human race, at the outset of the Sacred Writ, is ordained the divine origin and Sanctity of Marriage, One Man and One Women, One Flesh.
Genesis 2:23 Therfore shall a Man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his Wife; and they shall become One Flesh.
This is establsihed at the Federal level and now at the california level, which initially was done in 2000, four years after it was done at the federal level in 1996.
Wow - Do you think God really wants people to spend their time and energy stopping two people who care about each other from making a loving commitment?
It is amazing, i think that in order to support No on 8, the people had to have IQ's below 100.
Consider, millions of dollars came from the Polygamist in Utah and the homosexual pedophiles in the Catholic Church and NAMBLA.
Also, I hear them suggest that Civil Union is not goood enough, because they don't get the same federal rights of marriage. But,
Read the Federal DOMA inacted in 1996, and by the way Califirnia's DOMA in 2000 followed this.
DOMA: The Federal Government may not treat same-sex relationships as marriages for any purpose, even if concluded or recognized by one of the states.
Prop 8 is consisted with the guidelines for the Federal DOMA and just like Protectmarriage.com said the No on 8 people are politically postering to no avail.
Also, consider The bill was passed by Congress by a vote of 85-14 in the Senate[1] and a vote of 342-67 in the House of Representatives[2], and was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on September 21, 1996.
That means that it was passed by 85% vote in the Senate and 85% in the House, which is consisted with 87% of America who value a traditional marriage
I wonder how many starving people in this world could have been fed with the money spent trying to stop gay people from forming loving bonds. I wonder if god would rather those people starve to death so that his church could tell two gay people their love isn't equal. It's so terribly sad.
#127 since when did a gay person have to sit in the back of the bus?
#132 exactly why all the money send in court to overturn the majority who voted Yes on Prop 8. why can't gay leave us alone instead of forcing their agenda unto us. all the taxpayers money spent fighting this in court when equal domestic partnership already exist in california
and i don't get why equal civil unions can't be accepted? what is the agenda to redefine marriage? and please don't say separate but equal. since when did gays have to use any separate facilities.
Felix - reasoning of your stature may be gay people's best best defense. I beg of you to please at least make intelligent arguments against gay marriage. If you think two people's personal marriage is forced upon you, then you either seriously need some attention, a marriage of your own, or some mental help.
Jews, Catholics, Protestants and others all supported Proposition 8. Many of these congregations reportedly did so from the pulpit. Where are the protests against them? The gay community has merely targeted the LDS faith out of ease - you wouldn’t harrass a Rabbi or a Priest, but you jump at the opportunity to attack the Mormons. Every man and woman in this country has the right to define his or her own opinions of morality. They also have the right to donate their own money to a political cause. Read the First Amendment and explain to my why Mormons shouldn’t have been allowed to support Prop 8 with their own money.
Squirerls, read before your attack. see how it does affect people
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/marriage/effects_of_ssm.html
also why arent Equal civil unions ok? what is the agenda to redefine marriage
I think the government does have an interest in preserving traditional marriage and preventing same-sex marriages. This lies in the fact that traditional marriage is the foundation of our society and the place where children are born, nurtured, and reared. A deterioation of the traditional family unit would have terrible effects on society (as it already has). Numerous studies have shown the negative repercussions of children being born out-of-wedlock, for example. What does this have to do with same-sex marriage?
A look at the Scandinavian countries may provide the answer. They have approved of same-sex marriages for the last 10-15 years and it has led to horrific results. During that same period, marraiges in general have seen steep declines. The percentage of children born out of wedlock has increased by 12-15% (depending on estimates). It is to the point that 60% of children are born outside the bonds of marriage. Sociologists have maintained that marriage has been eroding since the 1960s. Their findings conclude that same-sex marriages in the Scandinavian countries have further eroded this institution. It has led the people of these countries to further devalue marriage as an institution and to depart from the concept of committing to a partner and maintaining a familial bond that encompasses responsible child-rearing. If this is the case, then there is certainly a government interest to protect what remains of the institution of marriage within this country.
Sure! lets bring jim crow back too! And separate toilets for black people!
http://www.exploringprop8.blogspot.com/
@squirrels, exactly gay don't care about civil rights, just as you who wants separate toilets for black people. you just want to force me to accept gay marriage and for my kids to accept it as norm.
@felixthecat:
I don't think you understand what "separate but equal" means. It doesn't just apply to facilities.
Civil unions are not equal to marriage. You know what's equal to marriage? Marriage.
#142, that is why I said make EQUAL Civil Unions and stop your hate towards people of faith who have a right to their values
Civil unions are secondary to marriage by their very nature of being construed as different, that marriage is too good for gays to even have. QED.
Why would any straight person give a shit about gays getting married? This debate shows how much religion mind controls people.
Men Cant marry Multiple Women
Women Cant marry Multiple men
Men Cant Marry Children
Men Cant marry Their Sister
Men Cant marry men
Black men can't marry white women.
squirrels-
I wonder how many starving people in this world could have been fed with the money spent trying to stop marriage from being defined as One man and One woman. Last count the No on 8 people spent over $30 million dollars and started back during the Olympics. My guess is that, the Yes on 8 campaign would not have had to campaign if it were not for the lies coming out of the mouths of pedohiles like NAMBLA and polygmamist groups. I wonder if satan would rather those people starve to death so that his evil could tell Christians to disobey what God ordained from the beginnig as a Sacred Writ and Holy Matrimony. It's so terribly sad.
I guess you think that men should marry children, men should marry multiple wives, sisters should marry brothers, mothers hould marry sons, and the Catholic homosexual pedophile priests should be tolerated.
Squirrels- Again, I must defer to your ignorance. marriage is defined as between One Man and One woman. It is also not inclusive of blood relatives, mental incompetant, and those under 18 wihtout parental consent, and illegal alien can not marry another illegal alien in California.
Maybe, you should read first, before you leap.
DOMA is the federal Prop 8 of the land and it says that one states recognition of gay marriage can not be accepted by the Federal Government.
Religious hysteria is a treatable psychosis and is in the DSM IV. No need to bother felixtheOpusDeicat any further.
@truthspeaker23:
Defined by whom? By your religion? And this is pertinent to our government how?
Or perhaps by the same people who once upon a time defined marriage as between "one man and one woman as long as they're the same race"?
You know, here I was thinking truthspeaker23 was just a random troll, but man does he really lay it on thick with the religispeak!
Okay, be honest, since you're only commenting on Prop-8 stuff, who are you really?
Gay protesters are just losing supporters when they use racist slogans and slogans showing their religious intolerance.
In a few years they'll have hormone injections to turn gay people straight, and gay people wont even exist.
@ma bell-did that GED arrive yet?
you ever hear about the one with the chicken and road and how he goes across it? haha that's a good one...
all religiion is a crock of shit.
if you dont like gay marriage don't get one and don't attend one.
end of story.
Hopefully we'll have injections that will be able to turn everyone white as well. Then jterry will be able to live in a perfect world.
Felix-
You seem to be stuck on "why are civil unions not acceptable..."
Answer me this: how would you feel about a law that revokes the citizenship of Americans who are not of White-European background and instead calls them "Ethnic Nationals". The "Ethnic National" would have all the same rights of a citizen. The term "Citizen" would be reserved for those of White-European backgrounds as those people formed the foundation of American society and laws. In fact, if you weren't white when this country was founded, you weren't even considered a whole person (for census purposes), let alone a citizen. White Europeans are the "traditional Americans" so long as you forget the people who were already here when they arrived.
Something tells me you'd be against it, and to that I ask, "Why? It has the same rights..."
excellent points #158-Rhonda! : )
FtheC won't respond with anything but his usual non-sequiters and ignorant diatribe. i'm over him. i'd rather beat a dead horse! it's sad some people think that he does, but they do, and i can't do anything about it. they don't have the sense to put together a cogent argument, can't take in any facts except what they know already. all i hope is that i never find myself living next to someone like that in RL. peace to all my brothers and sisters that support my rights. we will strike prop 8 down, and we will have legal gay marriage in all 50 states. eventually. i have to believe.
Being gay is a curable condition - a simple hormone disfunction. The sooner you gays realize that the happier you will be.
A common argument is that an inclination to homosexuality is inborn and immutable. It is widely believed that the public will become more accepting of homosexuality if they are convinced that it is inborn and immutable. For example, neuroscientist and homosexual Simon Levay stated: "...people who think that gays and lesbians are born that way are also more likely to support gay rights."[3]
Research into the issue of the origins of homosexuality suggests that adoptive brothers are more likely to both be homosexuals than the biological brothers, who share half their genes which suggests that homosexuality is not genetically caused. [4][5][6] This data prompted the journal Science to report "this . . . suggests that there is no genetic component, but rather an environmental component shared in families".[7][8][9] However, in regards to psychosocial and biological theories in regards to the origin of homosexuality, Columbia University psychiatry professors Drs. William Byrne and Bruce Parsons stated in 1994: "There is no evidence that at present to substantiate a biological theory. [T]he appeal of current biological explanations for sexual orientation may derive more from dissatisfaction with the present status of psychosocial explanations than from a substantiating body of experimental data".[10]
Dr. Tahir I. Jaz, M.D., Winnipeg, Canada states: "The increasing claims of being "born that way" parallels the rising political activism of homosexual organisations, who politicise the issue of homosexual origins . In the 1970s, approximately ten percent of homosexuals claimed to be "born homosexual" according to a large scale survey....However, in a survey in the 1980s, with the homosexual rights movement increasingly becoming active, thirty-five percent claimed to be born that way.[11]
Roman 1:26
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature.
27-And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men, working that which is unseemly (not good or suitable but perverted), and receiving in themselves that compense of their error was meet.
28- And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient.
29- Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity, whisperers,
30 -Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents.