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Tonight, thousands of people are expected to gather outside the Manhattan Mormon Temple of the Church of Latter Day Saints on Columbus Avenue at West 65th Street (starting at 6:30 p.m.), in protest of California's passage of Proposition 8. Andy Towle writes on Towleroad that once "the location reaches capacity" those gathered will slowly march down Broadway toward Columbus Circle." He adds there will be volunteers to "help marshall and guide protestors (watch for them in blue armbands - they're there to help)" and "You are encouraged to bring signs and candles and protest peacefully." And protest co-organizer Michaelangelo Signorile has some tips for tonight, adding, "Let's not be anti-religious bigots and, as you've heard me many times talk about on the show, let's not engage in this divisive race-blaming game. And it should also go without saying -- but sadly, must be said again and again --- no ugly racist rhetoric."
Peaceful Demonstration Expected for Tonight's Prop 8 Protest
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Peaceful until the protesters block traffic and cops bust some heads, that is.
What racist rhetoric is he talking about?
@joeb--the racist rhetoric is talk that supposedly about 70% of African Americans voted for Prop 8/banning gay marriage. Some believe that number is overblown.
@felixthecat--Many of the Prop 8 opponents do not have anything against Mormons as individuals--it's more about how the Mormon Church (from the top) orchestrated efforts to raise $20 million to fund Prop 8 support. I think peaceful demonstrations are perfectly reasonable. And yes, a church can be protested against--like when people protested against the Catholic CHurch for covering up decades of abuse by priests.
I say the best protest would be for all the bears and bull queers to dress in their biker leather ass chaps and go to every church on a sunday and make out and paddle each other. Every damn sunday. Let's see how long the church goers can hold out.
How many of these same idiots were fawning over the president of Iran when he came to Columbia to speak? The man is head of a country where homosexuality is punishable by hanging and not a peep of protest.
Mormons, on the other hand, peacefully exercize their right to vote their conscience on an issue and they are the ones targetted by the lavender mafia.
Memo to gay people: you want to see the face of intolerance (not to mention cowardice), look in the mirror.
The church did not donate the 20 millions since it will have to registered as a lobbyist. it members based on their beliefs donated money. LGBT shipped volunteers to California to gather support for their side. they raised more money than the Yes side but the voters decided. Why protest the church and create petition to take away their tax exempt status. in regards to the pedophiles, it is that the same comparison, the Catholics church employees (priests and bishops even arch dioceses were involved), As a catholic, i also spoke out against my church. But this is wrong to do Demos in front of the Mormon church. it is intimidating people to practice their religion and exercise their belief. I love you Jen C., but i do disagree with you on this matter.
its hard to believe that they expect this to be peaceful and not anti-religious. i mean its staged outside a church and the event picture was of a woman holding a sign that said "mormon bigot". put large crowds and an emotional topic on top... i'll believe it when i see it.
though this isn't the biggest priority, it gets the most attention. we need to be normalized and america need to see the major discrepancies between civil unions/domestic partnerships and marriage.
go to the nationwide protest on Saturday 130 EST at City Hall in Manhattan. jointheimpact.com
#6, they are spineless cowards since they are targeting a group that is not mainstream religion, that is mostly white, unpopular, poor and timid. shame on them all. Mormons have a right to their beliefs. If you want to unleash all your anger then go after the Yes voters on Prop 8.
@felixthecat-- I think it's okay to disagree about this, too.
#8 a city hall protest makes sense to me. but tonight' protest is to intimidate people to speak up and act up on their beliefs and convictions and that is wrong. No one is attacking Apple and other org for their donations to the Yes side. i find this protest anti-religion and I think that is wrong.,
P.S. :) Jen C is so cute
I think felix the cat's argument is "why can't you tolerate my religious intolerance of your sexual tolerance?"
#12, no HITLER, it is about people should have the freedom to practice their religion without persecution which is what they are doing now to the Mormons.
"I say the best protest would be for all the bears and bull queers to dress in their biker leather ass chaps and go to every church on a sunday and make out and paddle each other. Every damn sunday. Let's see how long the church goers can hold out."
This has to be the best quote of the day! I'm still laughing. Personally if I were going, which I'm not although I am one of "the gay," I'd be hoping for a cop to sodomize me like they did that tattoo guy over in the slope.
Gays getting married doesn't affect Mormons marriages or families... at all. They might not like the idea, but that is irrelevant. If they don't like gay marriage, they don't have to get one.
Mormons using church influence and money to limit civil rights, however, affects gays and the families and friends of gays in a very PROFOUNDLY hurtful way. The protesters are protesting the LIMITING of civil rights, not the church's right to exist.
People are pissed off because they see their rights being pissed on over and over and treated as sub-human. It's hard not to be a dick when you're being dicked over and told that your government is okay with bigotry and inequality.
Bigoted religious zealots should not be allowed to shape policies that affect an oppressed minority.
Its not so long ago that Mormons were told by the government that their marriage views were too radical for the mainstream too... remember polygamy?
The civil right movement has a LONG FUCKING WAY to go. Stay angry kids.
I love it! A "Peaceful" protest (wink, wink) We'll have thousands of people with signs and candles (aka pitchforks and torches). WE'LL RUN THOSE MORMONS OUT OF TOWN!
#15 polygamy is illegal and people found practicing it are imprisoned. This is not about civil rights which is why blacks voted Yes. they laughed at Separate but Equal signs since they wondered when were gays slaves or when did they have to use separate washrooms? Lastly, the mormons and people of other religious faith believe marriage is btw man and woman and therefore we can donate and vote on our conscience and now fear of persecution. Lastly, people in tonight demos are cowards, I dare them to protest in front of a harlem church and they will be in for a reality check,
It's called free speech... end of story.
#15, also how are gays oppressed? go to some countries in Africa or to Iran where they would hang Gays. Gays are not discriminated but they anger and need to be accepted is the issues. This is not a civil issue but a clash of different beliefs.
I heading to demos and I will join anyone who is standing for the Mormons and all people's right to practice their beliefs and conviction without fear of persecution.
Felix, I'm sorry but I don't understand your argument about Africa and Iran. Just because gays have it worse in other countries they should somehow just accept being discriminated against? Being gay isn't an ideology. It's not a set of beliefs. It is who people are. Now you can refuse to accept that, and that's fine, but the tide is changing. People aren't going to stand for the deprivation of their rights just "because." Just because it goes against your tradition. It may not happen today, tomorrow, or next year, but it's going to happen.
I didn't know there was a mormon church in manhattan, but then they have the money.
I say eff them too. for many reasons. suck it BY.
Felix, as long as you stand there peacefully I look forward to seeing you there.
it is a civil issue because there is a legal "married" status. while civil unions purport to provide the same rights, the fact that there is a separate law creates confusion so that it is not and, in practice, cannot be properly enforced.
you want it to solely be an issue of belief - then tell the government that they shouldn't be in the business of marrying anyone, that marriage should not be a legal term. as long as it is a legal term, it is a civil rights issue.
#20- Make sure you bring some K-Y.
Cuz.. just in case.
there really shouldn't be any racist rhetoric since the mormons only recently acknowledged black people are allowed in their presence and existence.
#25, thanks for the advice but I have my ass covered.
sorry, i have to agree with felixthecat on this one. this protest is stupid. protesting in nyc something that happened in california?
"u.s. americans don't have maps."
Will the mormons be there? Do they have wednesday night mass? It would be a shame if they missed this.
Zodak. Clearly this isn't a California issue. And that isn't why Felix is against it anyhow.
"#15, also how are gays oppressed? go to some countries in Africa or to Iran where they would hang Gays. Gays are not discriminated but they anger and need to be accepted is the issues. This is not a civil issue but a clash of different beliefs."
Ah felixthecat, you have managed to set the bar on human rights for the USA, the wealthiest nation on earth, to that of Africa and Iran.
If your definition of human rights is comparing it to 3rd world contries and dictatorships you are right.
Hate crimes where gay's are killed happen in the US too. But apparently not enough for you to consider it bad enough.
@felixthecat #17:
I'm always confused by people who say this isn't a civil rights issue. So telling an entire class of people they're not allowed the same legal status as the majority isn't a civil rights issue, but making a class of people use separate bathrooms is?
Here's a thought exercise for you: let's make a law that bans black people from marrying. By your reasoning, this isn't a civil rights issue, correct?
Out of curiosity, would you consider requiring gays to use separate facilities to be a civil rights issue?
i think the greatest comparison was by keith olberman a couple nights ago.
when barack obama was born, 16 states would have made his parents marriage illegal (interracial marriages). i think the country has agreed with that redefinition of marriage.
I just hope that nobody breaks a heel being so tolerant of race/religion at the rally.
ChesterKatz says "I'm always confused by people who say this isn't a civil rights issue. So telling an entire class of people they're not allowed the same legal status as the majority isn't a civil rights issue, but making a class of people use separate bathrooms is?" ABSOLUTELY.
People practicing the gay lifestyle have every right to marry ONE adult over the age of 18 of the opposite sex and many of them do. The class of Pedophiles can not ask to marry children and proclaim it a civil right. The class of Polygamist can not marry three and four people of the opposite sex and proclaim it a civil right. The class of Incestuous can not ask to marry family memebers and proclaim it a civil right.
So, everyone is given the same legal status. All heterogamous beings are required to follow the same law within their state. They cannot marry some one under the age of 18 without parental consent and can not marry a 14 year old or younger in most states. If they love four women they can not marry all four of them.
The comparison about Obama's parents not being legal in 16 states is from the mind of a lunatic. Last ime of look, Obama's parents were able to have sex and produce children. It is insane to deny some one the right to being married to the parent of their child.
Next Paraphilias will say it is a violation of their civil rights to deny them the right to marry the object of their affection.
@spnder:
Homosexuality is psychosexual disorder period under the DSM 111 class. They fall under four groups, Gender Identity Disorders, Paraphilias. Psychosexual dysfunctions, or other pschyosexual disorders.
Other fact, many gays discriminated against Blacks and owned slaves, while other gays were discriminated against and enslaved. None of this was done because of gender confusion called Homosexuality, but because of racism. People who engage in homosexual practices are just as heterogamous as people who engage in asexual practices and paraphilias.
The feminists wear t-shirts that say "Don't like abortion? Don't have one"
How about this:
"Don't like marriage as it's been defined for eons? Don't get married."
Well the organizers are sure making a point to the protestors to be peaceful. They obviously know there's a fair chance they won't be. The lady doth protest too much.
It's good they want to keep the religious hatred in check. But it's still there even if the pot doesn't boil over this time.
They should go and protest this in California.
for a NYC demo, it is a high turn out. where were all the people when city council overturn our votes to extend their terms. That is a real civil issues. There were no Mormons, they probably didn't want to waste their time. There were children holding Gay Love signs.
Again, have equal civil unions, but use the bullshit equal but separate. there won't be separate city halls for civil unions and for marriage.
Many people of faith believe that God create man and women and that union produces child. it is a sacred union. respect our beliefs, don't redefine marriage then churches, schools will be forced to conform or perish.
this is not about civil rights but about forcing your beliefs unto us. and please stop playing the violin. Gays are not an oppressed group. In california there is domestic partnerships but they need to force their beliefs unto us.
p.s. there a lot of gays in NYC. and they were wearing pink and they were mad.
also this is an direct attack on the mormon church, I read signs "tax Mormons", "Mormon bigots" and they were chalk writing on the streets anti-mormons remarks. the police lets them do whatever they want. I can't believe how much favortisim gays received and they are crying about oppression. in regards to Iran and Africa, i mention them for those to understand what oppresstion really is.
The nerve to say this is an injustice imposed upon you and your beliefs...
Oppression as defined by most professional victim groups these days is whenever anybody refuses to knuckle under to their every whim and demand.
I suspect the Mormons will be getting a lot of donations from non-Mormons in the days to come.
to Felix the Cat:
Apple donated $100,000 to the NO side of Prop 8. please don't pass along misinformation as fact.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/10/24/apple-prop-8/
your thoughts are hateful enough without being factually incorrect as well.
and again to Felix the Cat:
notice i stand by my beliefs with my real name. i don't hide behind the name of cartoon character.
Casey, that is what i wrote and I am not hiding, if you want me to meet you then tell me where. and casey, what are your beliefs, that man marries man then go ahead but don't impose it on me.
I said no one is boycotting apple for donating 100k to the No side. the no side lost and yet they can't accept it and want to force all of us to conform to their beliefs.
The Mormons don't give a shit about these silly protests. They were murdered and hounded out of the east coast for their beliefs in the 19th century. Think they care about a few demonstrators?
The organizer is just seeking publicity for his run for office. Don't believe the hype.
Felix-
your words: "...No one is attacking Apple and other org for their donations to the Yes side...."
Apple donated their money to the NO side.
and why in the world would i want to meet you? and why in the world could you possibly care about who i may or may not marry.
when bigots make MY life,a nd my life's choices important to THEM, you can damn be sure i will not go quietly into their little walled existence.
Felix:
again, your words:
what are your beliefs, that man marries man then go ahead but don't impose it on me.
that's all i ask of anyone and everyone. i don't care what your religious beliefs are. i don't care what your ideological beliefs are. i don't care who you are married to. none of it affects my life. all i ask is that your show me the same respect. my life has nothing to do with yours. you have absolutely no right to tell me how to live my life, and you have no right to make your beliefs the law of the land, especially when it so clearly violates 'all men are created equal.' equal means i have all the same rights as you. not a second but equal set. not almost equal. EQUAL.
truthspeaker23: And under the DSM IV, homosexuality is no longer a disorder. Our understanding and ideas about mental health have changed over the years.
See: Hysteria and the treatment of women, especially regarding sexuality.
Also truthspeaker23@34, it used to be illegal for interracial couples to marry. That's what people are discussing, regarding Obama's parents.
you guys made top story on the evening news,
great job organizing! and it was peaceful
@felixthecat:
How is allowing two adults to marry imposing beliefs on you? Perhaps you're not aware of the actual implications, but allowing same-sex marriage does not mean that you are going to be forced to marry someone of the same sex.
There were (and still are) people who considered interracial marriage to be against God's laws. Do you wish us to ban interracial marriage again so that nobody is "imposing their beliefs" on those people?
#40 God is the law of the land and he made man and woman and the they produce child. man and woman fit perfectly (sexual parts). I don't care how you live your life but don't impose your ways unto me. Have equal civil unions, I don't care but don't redefine marriage. we won't conform to that at all!!!
@52, stop sidetracking, did I ever say I would be forced to marry a man? why can you have equal civil unions, why must you redefine marriage. because this is not about civil rights but about socialization. you want to force your beliefs unto us. In Mass, children were forced to learn about same sex marriage and parents had no say over it since gay marriage is legal in Mass. if you really want equality then have equal civil unions but don't redefine marriage. You can't redefine nature to suit your agenda
spnder: as someone on towelroad wrote:
"However, in reference to a previous post here about the "rogue" Democrats in the NY State Assembly, who are trying to force the issue of gay marriage off the table, is anyone protesting against them?
Has anyone planned a protest at Senator Ruben Diaz's home, or in his district? He seems to be single-handedly able to prevent the NY Assembly from considering marriage equality. Wouldn't the efforts of the GLBT residents of NY be better served by directly confronting the bigots in their midst, who actually have the power to prevent marriage equality?"
emphasis mine.
On Sunday, November 9, a band of about 30 homosexuals stormed a church in Lansing, Michigan. Some were well dressed and were stationed inside Mount Hope Church, where they pretended to be normal Sunday worshippers; others were outside dressed in pink and black, reports Baptist Press.
The group of self-described homosexual anarchists, Bash Back!, claims the evangelical church is guilty of “transphobia and homophobia.” The group says that it fights for "liberation," opposes "all forms of state power," and urges members not to condemn certain methods of promoting their cause "on the grounds that the State deems it to be illegal."
During the service the protesters outside the church were beating on buckets, shouting “Jesus was a homo” on a megaphone and carrying an upside-down pink cross. They distributed fliers to passersby.
When the signal was given the protesters inside the church rose from their seats and began loudly to disrupt the service. The fire alarm was pulled inside the church, protesters stormed the pulpit and a huge rainbow-colored flag was unfurled with the inscription, “IT’S OKAY TO BE GAY! BASH BACK!”
The church was vandalized, obscenities were shouted and worshippers were confronted. According to Right Michigan the protestors in their demonstration also used condoms, glitter, confetti, and pink fabric. A video camera wielded by the homosexualists attempted to capture violent reactions from members of the congregation, of which there were none. Right Michigan also reports that approximately an hour after the demonstration two of the demonstrators were found by security in a public restroom in the church together. There were no arrests.
Bash Back! issued a press release on their website after the fact, which admitted that “the group was extremely loud and wildly offensive.” The group described Mount Hope Church as “deplorable” and “anti-queer.”
The release concluded, “Let it be known: So long as bigots kill us in the streets, this pack of wolves will continue to BASH BACK!”
Catholic League president Bill Donohue today responded, saying, “The real story here is the refusal of the mainstream media to cover what is surely one of the most disturbing events of 2008. If an organized group of gay bashers stormed a gay church, there is not a single sentient person in the United States who wouldn’t know about it.
“This is urban fascism come to America’s heartland. It must be quickly stopped before it gets out of control. We are contacting Mike Cox, the Attorney General of Michigan, calling for an investigation.”
Bash Back!’s actions in Michigan follow several days of homosexualist demonstrations outside California churches, protesting the passage of Proposition 8.
@felixthecat:
"God is the law of the land".
You've hit on the crux of the matter. Whose god? Those who wish to ban gay marriage are imposing their own religious beliefs on the whole of society. Those who want equal rights aren't imposing beliefs on anyone.
By the way, allowing same-sex marriage not only doesn't force you to marry someone of your own sex, it also doesn't force any church to perform these marriages against their own beliefs. The only "imposing of beliefs" being forced around here is coming from the side that wants to keep all the rights for themselves.
Fun facts of the day for people who think America is a 'Christian nation':
The God/'Creator' referred to in the Constitution is the philosophical God of Deism; many founding fathers, most notably Thomas Jefferson, were highly critical of Christianity and not Christian at all. The Constitution has a lot more to do with Enlightenment thinkers like John Locke than it does explicitly with Christianity.
That the money says 'In God We Trust' is a historical quirk of the 1860s; special interests groups - read: evangelical preachers - kept petitioning the secretary of the treasury until finally there was an act of Congress passed in 1864 placing it on the money to shut them up. So for the first 88 years of our country we operated without it on the money, and yet God did not kill us. Interesting!
interracial marriage wasn't legal in all 50 states until 1967.. it was decided by the Supreme Court in Loving v Virginia. 1967! i was in the 5th grade. Felix the Cat i'm SURE would just as soon that never passed either.
gay marriage is going to happen, and it's going to happen in my lifetime. my state of connecticut has made it legal-yesterday was the first day of legal gay marriages, and you know what Felix? the sun came up this morning, there wasn't a single straight person forced into a gay marriage, there wasn't a single kindergarten student taught about it, there wasn't a single church that was forced to participate, nothing bad happened and you are still free to live your life the way you see it.
the fact that you think i should live my life according to your god and your belief system is doing unto me exactly opposite of the way you want me to do unto you. can you catch my paraphrased drift?
i hate to break it to you Felix, but women can vote now, men can't stone their wives for adultery, and slaves are illegal.
It is amazing, i think that in order to support No on 8, the people had to have IQ's below 100. So, dream on Casey,with the homosexual pedophiles and polygamist who funded the No on 8 campaign.
My God says 'Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not steal. Thou shall not put any god's before me. He also says Homosexuality is an abomination to him.
Now,we do not go out and kill homosexuals for their sin or steal their NAMBLA pamphlets or in the case of the 95% of the Catholic homosexual pedophiles priests, their tainted robes.
So, I hate to break it to you Casey, "The wages of sin is death". For those heathens or non-believers,who like to misquote Jesus about judgment. When he stopped the stoning of the adulterous woman. He said to her "where are your condemning, see they are no more, and neither do I condemn you, SO GO AND SIN NO MORE, or cease from your aduloterous lifestyle or in this case your homosexual lifestyle. Forgiveness has a price, and that is the casing of the sinful act.
Consider, millions of dollars came from the Polygamist in Utah and the homosexual pedophiles in the Catholic Church and NAMBLA.
Also, I hear them suggest that Civil Union is not goood enough, because they don't get the same federal rights of marriage. But,
Read the Federal DOMA inacted in 1996, and by the way Califirnia's DOMA in 2000 followed this.
DOMA: The Federal Government may not treat same-sex relationships as marriages for any purpose, even if concluded or recognized by one of the states.
Prop 8 is consisted with the guidelines for the Federal DOMA and just like Protectmarriage.com said the No on 8 people are politically postering to no avail.
Also, consider The bill was passed by Congress by a vote of 85-14 in the Senate[1] and a vote of 342-67 in the House of Representatives[2], and was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on September 21, 1996.
That means that it was passed by 85% vote in the Senate and 85% in the House, which is consisted with 87% of America who value a traditional marriage.
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