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Just because congestion pricing didn't pass doesn't mean that tolls aren't possible on East River crossings: WCBS 2 reports that the MTA is considering tolling all Brooklyn, Manhattan, Williamsburg, and 59th Street Bridges in order to deal with its huge budget gaps. Transportation engineer Sam Schwartz points out, "We already have tolls at the Battery Tunnel, Midtown Tunnel, the Triborough Bridge let's put pricing on all of the crossings in between... People coming into the city should be paying for some of the service they get." Tolling the four bridges might raise $1 billion; another possibilitiy is "to have tolls only during morning and evening rush hours." And about congestion pricing...given the city's financial picture, "A top transit source told CBS 2 HD the mayor's full congestion pricing plan is also back on the table. " Snap!
Tolls for East River Bridges?
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Lots of celebrating for Egyptian win against Algeria in Bay Ridge.
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I'm trying to picture how toll booths would be readily set up on either entrance of the Brooklyn Bridge. Hmmmmmmmmmmahhhhhhhhhhhherrrrrrrryeahhhhhh... No.
And this knucklehead still thinks he's getting a third term.
Tell everyone to get Easypass.
Honestly the Easypass system is horribly antiquated. As an example Singapore uses a congestion pricing/toll system that works amazingly well that would work perfectly for the east river bridges since you don't need toll booths to begin with and you can drive as fast as you want.
But then again, this is not Singapore...
Putting tolls at the 59th Street Bridge will effectively stop traffic on 2nd Ave between 57th and 65th St (not to mention East 57th St.) and at Queens Plaza every weekday from 8 to 10 and 4 to 7.
Now there's a fun experiment in traffic modeling!
They will most likely not put toll plazas but rely on an array of traffic cameras and a newer EZ Pass collection system that relies on sensors hung on overhead "bridges" spanning the road. I believe EZ Pass is rated to work up to 30MPH so they'll probably find a way to slow traffic down for them.
Finally. Now the rest of NYC will be enjoying what Staten Islanders have been dealing with for decades. The fucking misery of tolls.
Finally. Now the rest of NYC will be enjoying what Staten Islanders have been dealing with for decades. The fucking misery of tolls.
This is just another tax on the middle class. How about we tear down all the projects in Manhattan and Brooklyn instead, and sell the land at market value. That should meet any budget gaps. If the working class are going to be priced out of this town the non-working class should be priced out as well.
This city is uninhabitable as is.
The Entitled American Motorist, of course, will gladly shove that stick in her/his ass even further in, rather than have a meaningful discussion about infrastructure usage/maintainence fees.
This morning Steve Bartelstein on CBS News sounded like he was about to go into remission, shave his head again, and zap neighbors with lasers if he had to pay a toll.
By the way:
High speed tolls
Go school yourself.
Still a tax on the middle class just like it was last year. Only the middle class and below will stop driving; it does nothing to affect the upper class. Oh and the other fun thing will be the life of everyone close to the cutoff zone (86th st?). That's where everyone who hates the MTA and works within a mile from there will search for parking and clog up the grid.
@ThinkTwice: The subway fares are next, and I'm sure you'll be bitching and moaning about that. Just because it doesn't affect you personally does not make it ok.
Best idea I've heard in quite a while. Also no bicycles allowed on the bridges. They don't allow them in the tunnels, so why not?
I can't think of a better way to totally fuck up the quality of life for the middle class people of this city.
I can only hope the elimination of all on street parking is next.
@UnrepentantFenian
No schadenfreude here; they'd both affect my wallet personally. I'd rather pay more upfront than tear my hair out when confronted with service cuts and/or crumbling infrastructure.
I live in Queens. While it would be nice to own a car, it is not economically feasible for me at the moment. There are those who depend on their vehicles as a way of earning their paychecks. The simple answer of course is to tell everyone, "Tough Shit, if you don't like it here, leave!" or, "Take public transportation!" Paying an additional $50 to $100 a month on tolls to get to work or around town is a real strain on those who cannot afford it. Everyone is quick to encourage people to start businesses and grow the economy, but at what cost? The bridges and tunnels weren't a gift to the population. Our TAX dollars are supposed to be used for their maintenance and for the general infrastructure. The budget gaps are real and the money needed to close those gaps has to come from somewhere. Much like his proposed plastic bag surcharge, why weren't these tolls established years ago? When the economy is booming, it hurts less to have these in place. Now that everything is in the shitter, one has to wonder, when will it end?
@UnrepentantFenian
Amen about the projects.
Best quote ever:
People coming into the city should be paying for some of the service they get
I already live in "the city" you Manhattan-centric ass clown.
For all non-Manhattanites: Please punch at least one Manhattanite in the face every day. It will make you feel better.
@ Think Twice: Do you really think they'll reinvest that revenue in our crumbling infrastructure or just give it to the Yankees or the Dolans or any of these other massive corporations the taxpayers subsidize. I don't trust our politicians not to extend their term limits let alone this kind of dough.
The high speed EZ Pass lanes around the tri-state area already handle 55mph traffic, or 20mph higher than the speed limit in the city. High speed EZpass collection systems are easily installed without toll booths, suspended above traffic on a truss similar to those that hold traffic signs.
Congestion pricing was and is an obvious solution to generating user based fees to offset the cost of providing services; the development of technology to facilitate congestion pricing is a natural progression to manage the transportation in a modern city. Its development as policy is no different than the development of subways a hundred years ago; just as now world class cities have subway systems, over the next few decades, they will all also have a congestion pricing scheme. The biggest failure here is that instead of the Federal government paying to install the system, now New Yorkers will pay.
@ thenebula
e-zpass workes up to 45 miles an hour on the tappan zee bridge.
I can't think of a worse thing to do then to raise cost of living right now for people. This wouldn't just effect people driving into the city with a car it would raise the price of food and other products being shipped into the city everything is expensive enough. Are they also going to put tolls on all the little bridges from the Bronx to the city or are they only going to punish people who live in Brooklyn, Queens and Staten island.
#20 Oh please, everyone knows NYC is really just Manhattan. The other boroughs are just the minor leagues waiting to move up to the majors. Anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves.
As for the 'middle class', they are a historical anomaly. A gift from the government to WWII vets.
Finally. Now the rest of NYC will be enjoying what Staten Islanders have been dealing with for decades. The fucking misery of tolls.
Finally? Did you not notice where Schwartz said, "We already have tolls at the Battery Tunnel, Midtown Tunnel, the Triborough Bridge"? Maybe Staten Islanders should enjoy what the rest of NYC has been dealing with, namely having to pay for boat rides. Nobody forced you to live in SI.
Also no bicycles allowed on the bridges. They don't allow them in the tunnels, so why not?
Typically asinine Snoopy. They don't allow pedestrians in tunnels, either, so why not close all the bridge walkways, too?
Of Course. What better way to raise money then tolls and rate hikes. A person with a high school diploma could think of the same idea. How about some of the politicians could for once use their brain power and think of a way they can do more for less? Isn't that what Bloomberg been saying all along?
When the economy does get better are they going to stop collecting the money? NO! Today price will be $3.00 in five years it will be $5.00.
Great idea, especially if it helps reduce the use of Manhattan Island as a bridge from Long Island to New Jersey. (Canal Street is a nightmare!)
Just like with the state lotteries and scratch cards that were supposed to fund education, the money from tolls will go into somebody's pocket.
Good idea Spitof76. Get rid of the pedestrians also. More room for toll paying cars.
If the poor pay $2 to ride the subway, the middle-class and the wealthy should pay to ride over the bridges! Right?
Who the hell do you think should pay for the massive renovations recently on the Manhattan and Brooklyn Bridges, the straphanger?
Don't be so cheap!
I suppose Manhattan is about to become self-sustaining?
Toll prices will be passed on to people in Manhattan. More tolls means that everything crossing a bridge or tunnel to come into the city will go up in price.
People who think that the middle class is driving into the city in the mornings to go to work are clueless. How much does it cost to garage a car during the workweek? For weekend travel, if they start charging a toll, it will just hurt Manhattan businesses, give further incentive for people to avoid it.
Also, the people who think EZ pass and cameras is an answer seem to forget that those are opt-in systems. There has to be at least one lane accessible for those without EZ pass.
You want to raise money on cars-- do it at registration, or by a gas tax, or by increasing the parking tax. None of those will require a new system of cameras and toll booth operators, none of those will require more slow inefficient unionized workers to man the system. None of those will increase congestion the way that any toll system is going to. People in favor of congestion pricing and more tolls don't live in the real world. They say "gee, I don't have a car, I don't like cars, so who cares" without having the ability to see the bigger picture.
Don't worry, more big reduction in force layoffs are coming to Manhattan soon. Bonus money is going to be cut in half this year, and will be equally dismal in 2009. Tax revenues will continue to go down. Police presence will be reduced. Bankruptcies and foreclosures will go up. Store vacancies will go up. Crime will go up. It's coming.
Does the 'toll them for using the bridge' crowd include pedestrians, skaters, and cyclists that use the bridges too?
@UnrepentantFenian
Ditto on the Great American Sincerity Gap. Not only for the monies entailed to any bridge tolls but in all government. I concur entirely, the public sectors finances should be as clear as a private firm's Balance Sheet.
NYC is not just Manhattan. Manhattan only has 1.6 million out of 8.3 million who pay NYC taxes and also who commute into Manhattan everyday to help the economy there.
If you would like the other boroughs to leave "your NYC" alone, maybe you should look at Detroit to get an idea of what that would be like.
This toll idea must not happen. I know shithead Bloomberg is behind this because he tried before.
[34] Oh, yeah, I'm sure everybody will be saying, "I refuse to get a job in Manhattan." Manhattan is a little different from Detroit. The bridge and tunnel crowd from NJ and the northern burbs have a little more to worry about than tolls, yet they're not avoiding Manhattan.
Anyone who has driven on the Tribough Bridge knows EZPass is far from perfect. Every day someone from some other state or Canada jams the system because they don't know what EZPass is and go to the wrong lane.
Cash payment options must be available at every toll.
If every entryway into Manhattan gets tolled, then they should lower the tolls.You can have much more revenue and still reduce the tolls.And as to the class angle, working class people really need to drive into Manhattan? And they park where? at what cost? It really is more of a tax on the rich and since Manhattan needs no cars, juice 'em good.
Ugh so many trolls so little patience.