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Early Addition
At left, Brooklyn Novelty's tote; at right, photo of Russian Orthodox Cathedral by Wally G.
The two Greenpoint artists behind the Brooklyn Novelty brand will finally be able to fill up the currently empty press section of their website. Derick Holt and Milton Carter started the brand this year with a focus on "localized souvenirs to capture the spirit of the neighborhood while paying homage to tourism's golden age." Their first project? Map Williamsburg and Greenpoint for an adorable little tote bag that not only points out important landmarks like the Turkey's Nest, but also captures the "cultural nuances of our time." Sounds innocent enough, right? Except they had to go and bring some "ironic hipster humor" into the mix.
The NY Post points out that the Russian Orthodox Cathedral, located near McCarren Park, is labeled "The Mosque" on the map (oh yes, they did). They tell the paper, and in turn the Russian Orthodox community, that everyone calls it that! You know, everyone they hang out with at the Turkey's Nest. Church deacon Igor Ksynyuk, however, finds it offensive, and notes that "If someone didn't know it was a joke, he might think our church wants to offend Muslims somehow."
The designers stand by their bag, saying, "If you were new to the neighborhood, you wouldn't know what [the church] was, but you'd know the domes." You know, how like when hipsters get mad when they're labeled hipsters...but what else are you going to call the young artist living in Greenpoint designing ironic tote bags? Buy yours now!
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does de nile flow throw williamsburg too?
ZING!
Yeah, and if you were new to the world, you wouldn't know that Eastern Orthodox churches have domes, like those very famous ones in Russia, or that the cross on top of the dome signifies something...
On an unrelated note, this is another example of people being unable to publicly admit they were wrong. It would have been so much easier.
No, no, no...
If you can't tell a Russian church from a Mosque, or think it's funny to say they are interchangeable...
...you haven't moved yourself enough from your Iowa corn field roots to deserve to be called hip, hipster, or Greenpoint artist.
You are just a hick. A posing hick.
i guess these hipsters will be ok with being killed when some muslim blows himself up at their loft because the suicide bomber will do it "ironically."
Doesn't this look like the church from Seinfeld? When George is converting to date that woman? Anyone?
Are people becoming dumber and dumber by the week? If you saw those domes - topped with Byzantine crosses - and thought it was a mosque, you must be truly ignorant of the world.
Yeah, you can always tell a mosque by the crucifixes studded across the top.
I have lived in this neighborhood for years. NOBODY calls this place "the mosque".
Schmucks
But the fact is that people are ignorant - really stupid, too. What makes a hipster hip is that they are so ignorant of the real world that they go ahead and invent bullshit words, sayings and tote bag illustrations. Other people who are equally ignorant but smart enough not to be "creative" come along and lap it up because they are obsessed with hipster snobbery - you know, thinking something is hip because it's merely the latest thing to come along.
The designers DID know what they were doing, you morons. It was a joke. whether or not you get it or find it amusing is irrelevant. It is a joke. This grumpy racist Russian fucker is obviously freaked because people will think that he and his racist congregation are (GASP) MIDDLE EASTERN!
I don't think anyone has ever honestly mistaken the church for a mosque.
If he does not find it amusing, i suggest he not buy one, and shut the fuck up about something that is so trivial. Seriously. I work at a store where these things are sold. Give it 3 weeks and everyone will already have one and we'll find something else to sell.
Get over it, Igor. You're only causing more publicity and moving more units by bitching so much. Public outrage=Free advertising. What a dipshit.
Right on, #3. It's yet another case of know-it-all hipsters proving they are in fact completely ignorant, and have no respect for their surroundings. It's pretty hard to mistake a Russian church for anything other than a Russian church.
It is the irony...you know the hipsters subversion
cncrocket (#10):
"This grumpy racist Russian fucker is obviously freaked.."
Are you talking about yourself (except for the "Russian" part, not relevant)?
@ #10...not so much. You do know that there are a lot of Caucasian Muslims in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet states, right? Why would Muslim = Middle Eastern, unless you were too ignorant to associate mosques with anything else?
When you're new in a neighborhood and you decide to treat the surrounding population and landmarks with disrespect, people will be upset. It's not all about you. If you don't like it, try being respectful. Or move back to Iowa. Preferably the latter.
I have lived in this neighborhood for years. NOBODY calls this place "the mosque".
I was about to post exactly the same words. They should have just said "we thought it'd be funny to call it that." Perfectly valid answer, that way.
No, I'm referring to the grumpy racist Russian who came in the store where I work to argue with me about it.
This tote was not issued by the Chamber of Commerce, or featured anywhere as an actual "Tourist Guide". There is nothing "official" or authoritative about it. It is a stupid, stupid joke. Period. No apologies needed.
Why is he so freaked out?
NOT because he's afraid of offending Muslims, but because he's afraid of being identified as or associated with Muslims.
theres nothing disrespectful about a stupid fucking tote bag.
lets all fucking freak out about this a little more!
its totally worthwhile.
yeah, duh there are caucasuian muslims. but americans get all nervous and jumpy around Muslim topics and imagery, so I'm sure thats what Igor's real beef was with the tote. "WE"RE NOT MUSLIM!"
cncrocket, i guess you aren't a complete moron, because you can at least realize that:
"It is a stupid, stupid joke. Period."
of course you are still something of a moron because you believe that "theres nothing disrespectful about a stupid fucking tote bag."
i guess you forgot about the riots over a bunch of muslim cartoons. seriously, you need to stfu & learn about the world outside of mccarren park pool.
"Igor's real beef was with the tote. "WE"RE NOT MUSLIM!"
He's not muslim though.
cncrocket, you really don't understand, do you?
Igor's Russian, as you've gone out of your way to say. I doubt he's "nervous and jumpy" about Islam. I would imagine he doesn't think it's okay you've decided to make a joke about his church. You seem to be going out of your way to vilify anyone who objects to what you've done, but if there's a huge outcry, maybe it's you, not them.
You seem to think it's okay to assign a new name (because "everyone calls it that!") to a religious landmark; one you found amusing. You're making money off it. You don't think anyone should be upset about that. And yet you are angry and want people to stop complaining about your actions. If you dish it out, you'll have to be prepared to take it back.
This is precisely why so many people hate hipsters--they don't care who they offend or ridicule, they invade neighborhoods and then gentrify them out of existence, and OMG, how dare anyone call them on it. And in the end, they don't even turn out anything worthwhile or anything that isn't appropriated from work someone else already did.
cncrocket,
bullshit.
How many other "jokes" does that bag feature?
And if the only joke on it was related to blacks, or Jews (more numerous, and more powerful minorities), would you still have the balls to sell it?
ha! i dont even LIVE in Williamsburg. who's the meathead now?
get fucking offended if you want. riot if you want. thats your right. its also my right to sell this stupid bag to girls who think its "cute"
If it had been in a tour guide or something REAL, then yeah TOTALLY DISRESPECTFUL.
In this context, my feeling is, if they are offended-
THEY SHOULDN'T BUY THEM.
Why should we stop selling them just because some people are offended? Lot's of things offend people. That's called life.
I'm sure not all Russians or Muslims share Igor's misplaced sense of rage.
I don't go into stores with merchandise that offends me. Pretty simple solution, eh?
I love that church. It's one of my favorite buildings in NYC.
umm... there are lots of other jokes.
Like the waterfront being ghetto-beach? Sounds like a borderline-black joke to me.
so, yeah. i have the balls to be an equal opportunity political-correctness basher.
So which one of them are you fucking, cncrocket? Ok, that's probably over the line, but it seems like you have some sort of connection to the designers.
And, you're telling everyone to chill out, they're overreacting, etc., but you appear to be the one who is freaking out the most about the whole thing.
I'm sorry, I don.t know what a hipster is. Can you provide me with anything other than a bullshit catch-all vague scapegoat definition for "any young person who does something you find annoying"?
step back and breathe rocket. enjoy the rest of the columbus day holiday.
is there a joke in there?
So which one of them are you fucking, cncrocket? Ok, that's probably over the line, but it seems like you have some sort of connection to the designers.
And, you're telling everyone to chill out, they're overreacting, etc., but you appear to be the one who is freaking out the most about the whole thing
I'm wondering that myself. If it's not a big deal, cncrocket, why exactly are you working yourself into hysterics about it?
If you have the right to sell the bags, others have the right to comment on them, and to say they suck and they're offensive. This works both ways, you see. Cut the persecution act.
As for a definition of 'hipster,' look in the mirror. Oh, sorry, forgot, hipsters also think they're entitled to have everything handed to them without doing any work, so I guess I'm supposed to explain it to you here, right? Okay: it's a self-centered, self-absorbed person who thinks they are terribly trendy, terribly relevant and creative, and in fact creates absolutely nothing new, dresses and acts just like every other terribly unique hipster, and has a marked sense of entitlement and a lack of personal responsibility, global view and a conscience. Hipsters tend to think they are on the cutting edge of art/writing/whatever they do in their basement, and that they should be applauded for their genius, but in fact they are only recycling things other people did 30 years ago. They also think they're big, bad and urban when they live in areas with brick buildings and fire escapes, but cry uncontrollably when faced with any actual urban crises. That about covers it.
cncisforgetting one key point here:
it's not a mosque.
I guess It's a good thing they didn't call it a synagogue or Igor would have had a heart attack.
wow mel, pull your head out of your ass. why not call it a private male club if a few people find it funny? the "artists" in this case fucked up and won't admit it, don't add to their stupidity.
So a couple of carpetbagging "artists" who fell off the turnip truck in Williamsburg decide that they have the final word on what things are and are not in this town. On what authority? A degree from Ball State perhaps does.
Dilettante, douchebaggery, hipster chauvinism at its finest.
-"Lahk OMFG is that lahk a mosque ovah there or some shit!? FTW it IS a mosque!! Lolz u don't see that shit in Toledo ROFLMAO!!"
-"Young man that's not a mosque is a church."
-"Ch'yeah right! WTF do you know old man! Ah'm lahk way KEEWWLER than you!"
right. another definition that is extremely vague, and oh-so-easy to adapt to whatver gripe you happen to have on a given day.
"look in the mirror" ?
Okay. I got worked up when people started using the meaningless term "hipster" (which I have no problem being labled, but I still contend has no meaning)
BUT- you have NO IDEA who I am. What I do for a lving. What I wear. Where I live. My attitudes about creativity. You were in hog-heaven to dish out another "hipster" indictment. Its fun right? like saying, "hey! our city sucks. whos the easiest target? YOUNG PEOPLE FROM THE MIDWEST!"
a little too close to "hey the economy sucks in post war germany. you know whose fault this is? THE JEWS!"
THIS CITY WOULD SUCK HARD WITHOUT TRANSPLANTS
they keep the city what it is. dynamic. young. fun. it would be hell without new young people moving here every day. call them hipsters if you must, but we're not going anywhere. and we're actually pretty beneign. gentrification has always existed. remember- Bed-Stuy used to be a RICH WHITE NEIGHBORHOOD.
yappity yap yap yap
(that goes for all of youz)
Rfive what are you talking about?
I'm sorry, where is Williamsburg? Is that in Queens? You'll have to forgive me, I'm not familiar with your neighborhood.
The church could put out their own tote bags with caricatures of the designers with "Dumbf%@# hipster wannabes" as the caption.
It would of course have a disclaimer on the bottom -
What? Everyone calls you guys that! It's just a joke fellas! What're you so worked up about? Get over it! Chillax! I mean, kah-man, jeez, fuhgetabboudit, whateveh..
cncrocket, you're really getting boring at this point. As I said before, cut the persecution complex. If you even think anti-hipster criticism has any relevance or comparison to the Holocaust or Nazi Germany, you need to grow up, get over yourself and go read a few history books.
Guess what? I'm actually a young person myself (or as young as the designers of this bag). I grew up here. And I don't think the hipster culture has contributed a single positive thing to this city. Since the city's been gentrified, I've seen long-term residents priced out of their homes, truly interesting clubs like CBGB's closed, and all of the interesting neighborhoods replaced with terribly boring ones. Sorry, but the city sucks more with you here. Transplants only help the city when they come in an actually try to contribute, not when they come in with contempt for everyone around them.
you know what? you're right. im going to gather up my "hipster community" of friends (who, of course, think exactly like me) and we'll just leave the city alone. cause, yeah, we're all just the same and decided collectively to move here so we could hate it and its residents. i personally do as little as possible to observe and embrace the city around me in favor of imposing my own shitty art on everyone and accusing everyone of being stupider than me, because im rich and white and my dad paid for me to go to school, but really i just jerked off for 4 years. im sorry. i thought it was a perfectly harmless thing to do.
i think the really irksome issue here is making huge generalizations and assumptions that lead to senseless scapegoating.
Like when the makers of the bag say "everyone calls it that! "
http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/images/7/71/Internet_argument.jpg
You could fit a sizable chunk of a hipster in one of those shitty bags.
#5 yes it is the same church as the one in Seinfeld. It is the church that my gradparents and father went to. It just celebrated it's 100th anniversary.
Funny thing was that I actually had someone who just moved to NYC tell me "i was walking around williamsburg the other day and I never knew there was a mosque there. it was so huge". It took me a minute to realize that he had mistaken the church for a mosque. i guess the crucifixes weren't big enough.
i think the problem is that some people actually do believe it is a mosque. And to the priest it comes off as if they are mocking the church. i understand that they were trying to be funny, but i think that there are certain things that you can't make a joke about when you don't know enough about it in the first place. religion is a very sensitive and serious topic for some people. it think it also comes off as being disrespectful.
...but what else are you going to call the young artist living in Greenpoint designing ironic tote bags?
how about we cut of the bridge and let them stay there. Quick someone come up with a new bag renaming Williamsburg to Shitzville.
Don't hate. Hipsters keep down the thug population.
*shrug* cncrocket, the amusing thing is that you don't even understand that you've justified every negative hipster stereotype there is in your comments. Let's see: your idea of "embracing the city" involves selling an overpriced bag that IS shitty art at best and which blatantly copies others' work at worst, which denigrates a religious landmark. You insult the congregation and accuse them of being racist when they object to being insulted. When others object and call you out on it, OMG, you're being persecuted by the ignorant! It's just like the Nazis!
Do us all a favor, go embrace some other city. I hear Peoria is in need of enlightenment.
You know, I was just in Peoria. It was charming.
All kidding aside, it is annoying to move to a community and rename the landmarks and institutions because you are too lazy to learn their names.
It would be just as insulting if they renamed the cathedral "the Astrodome" or "the big building that I am too stupid to identify correctly."
Beyond the obstinacy, what kind of moron can't tell it's a cathedral? It's covered in crosses. Even if it weren't, you should be able to ID it by the numerous architectural clues.
I really don't think the beef is related to some fear or hatred of Islam-- and to claim so is disingenuous.
Wow, 49 comments!
50!
its just an idiotic joke-bag. its manufactured by a complany called "brooklyn novelty" novelty would be the key word. there are lots of other snarky "hipster" jokes on the stupid thing. like the "oil spill" in greenpoint or the "ghetto beach" on the east river. just little throw away visual jokes. no vicious intent, no cultural misunderstanding. and there are also references to places that have been closed for years, so this thing is not brand new.
maybe its not that funny, but its also not that offensive.
at this point an apology from the designers would be appropriate. if they really did not intend to offend, they shouldn't have a problem apologizing that people were. they have every right to be angry and voice that opinion, but it was just a joke, and by doing a story in the sensationalizing post, the church has really only done itself a disservice by publicizing it and allowing it to have the weight to offend.
LATVIAN ORTHODOX!