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The vice presidential candidates had their only debate in St. Louis tonight, and, if anything, Republicans are likely relieved that Sarah Palin acquitted herself smoothly while Democrats are likely relieved Joe Biden wasn't too aggressive. And overall, it was a very fast-moving and "energetic," as the NY Times' David Brooks said on PBS, debate. Presidential scholar Michael Beschloss didn't think it was very exciting, since there were no real zingers, a la Dan Quayle and Lloyd Bentsen's exchange in 1988, though Biden did call McCain's health care plan "the ultimate Bridge to Nowhere" and Palin did say, "Say it ain’t so, Joe."
Since this was the only debate, the topics spanned domestic and foreign policy, economy, energy, even gay marriage. Palin was very colloquial (with a lot of gonna's, betcha's, etc.), used folksy charm (when she met Biden, she asked if she could call him Joe), and played up her regular middle class background. She also emphasized her place as a Washington outsider and the governor of a natural resources-rich state. Biden hit a lot of talking points, pointed to his experience in dealing with issues, and teared up when discussing the death of his first wife. He focused more on attacking John McCain than Palin.
Here's a partial transcript of the debate. The NY Times has been checking the facts behind the VP candidates' assertions and MSNBC has video clips from the debates.
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At least Biden didn't open up with "hey sweetie, nice hooters." He also forgot to patronizingly tell us how "clean and articlate" Obama is, (Biden's words).
The only problem is, all you have to do is go back a couple months to the primary debates to hear Biden trashing Obama all over the place and praising McCain.
The man is a whore. He has plenty of experience alright; experience shovelling copious amounts of bovine fecal matter.
Aside from her droning on and evading questions. My favorite part was her moment of unconscious truth. She said "he is the person we need to (leave)" OOPS! "lead us into wah wah wah wah".. Also and economy and such as Iraq.
#1- go back ten years ago. McCain was more liberal than a gay waiter. Now he has to flip flip and eat his maverick principles to satisfy his base. Favorite moment by palin "New Clear war bad!"
I thought it was an interesting debate--more so than last week's presidential debate.
That was a real good debate. Sarah is captivating, but Biden was stronger.
I listen to the spin, did people watch the same debate as me? Joe didn't win because there was no competition. That debate was a sketch that wrote itself. Sarah continuously wandered off topic, was uncommanding of the facts and clearly parroting her coaching.
Nothing says "change" better than the old white guy who has been ensconced in the Senate and back-room deal culture for 36 years.
It's not about how you "look", it's what you stand for. Sarah is a "woman" who stands for the continuation of existing policies. look , she is proof positive that ALL of these politicions are merely window dressing for the bankers and arms merchants that RULE this world.
I may be wrong. But there is such a thing as too folksy, as in vomit-inducing saccharine overdose. And it well may be that we end up liking Palin for the hairdresser in the local palour that she is and not the vice-president that she wants to be.
As someone else posted in another thread "Cod bless America".
Palin is barely qualified to be the head of her daughters PTO - its scary she was even elected to rule over that useless block of ice known as Alaska. She is the only public official that can actually make George W look presidential.
Biden won the debate, but Sarah Palin held her own. I still think shes not qualified to be a Veep but she definitely improved from the Couric debacle
The only thing missing from her pre-packaged performance was a sorority pin. It seemed like Joe Biden was debating a high school senior about world affairs. And it lowered him for that very reason. I felt sorry for him being trapped on that stage with a ditzy child actress.
Mfer- keep your comments to English politics or wherever you are from. You obviously can't vote here if you are spelling like that.
what's a talibani ?
"can i speak about theenergy?"
betcha! gotcha! goshdarnit! aint! what the hell kind of politician uses these words? is she faking this shit?
ides of march: "Nothing says 'change' better than the old white guy who has been ensconced in the Senate and back-room deal culture for 36 years."
You're absolutely right, except most of us are voting for a PRESIDENT, not a Vice President.
And nothing says more of the same than a guy who has been in Congress for 26 years and has voted with the current dingbat President 90% of the time.
Her giggling was so weird and unprompted that I wonder if she left her vibrator on by mistake.
She did not answers the questions posed. She gave us speeches. I really do hate her goshdarnits. I think she want a hometown girl image when in reality she is blood thirsty. It reminds of Bush to create his fake Texan cowboy persona. Same dirty political tricks.
why does she keep winking at me? am i forgetting some episode we had together?
The only thing I believed about her is her strong religious convictions. She believes homosexuality is a choice, she doesn't believe in choice even for raped women and she believes the war is God's plan. That is why she would never support bringing back the troops until there is "victory". Palin believes victory is turning those Iraq into a Christian country with hockey mom's values. It is never going to happen. why sacrifice so many American lives????
I gotta agree with Telly Savalas up there. Palin far and away exceeded expectations but I thought Biden did as well, and of course expectations were higher for him to begin with. It was really a great debate.
Sarah Rocks!
@#20, I thought she was winking at me. "Doggone" was used in a sentence. Very presidential. Errrrrr... vice.
Once again Palin never really answered the questions posed to her. She is always off topic or tries to give a somewhat lose answer.
She scares the shit out of me. She's so unprepared. So not ready for the international scene or real issues. Maybe if she hangs around and gets some experience in the next 12 years and changes her stance on fundamental truths like global warming, equal rights, diplomacy.
PRESIDENT PALIN? Can you imagine?? EEK!
I counted at least 12 uses of the word "Maverick" as an answer for an approach to policy. 3 references to being a "small business owner", which applies only in perhaps the loosest sense of the word (she ran a small consulting firm that amounted to fuck all and lasted maybe a year). Openly announcing that she had no interest in answering the questions as was expected of her. About 8 winks to the camera as she talked about "Safe drilling". 4 mentions of John McCain's supposed suspension of his campaign, which lasted all of 2 days and seemed to immediately coincide with bailout plan talks falling into disarray. And countless condescending remarks like "Joe Six-Pack", meant to appeal to a voter base she actually has no clear concept of.
So yeah, she did a lot better than we expected.
Also, she made Joe Biden cry. Which was not a nice thing to do.
dogs don't like Palin either. I will trust man's best friend judgment and vote against Palin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKEZkIRvmHY
two hours and NEITHER candidate mentioned the plight of zamboni drivers. what's up with that?
I want to fight her.
Its absurd that John McCain can stand up and tell America with a straight face that he believes this woman has the knowledge, temperament and judgment necessary to possibly lead this nation.
I have no respect for anyone who at this point remains 'undecided'.
At one point Palin let loose with a tick of colloquialisms so wall-to-wall that it felt like she was about a quarter inch away from a 'ding-dang-diggity' or a 'well, whoopty-doo, fancy pants!"
She continues to strike me as not so intelligent, but certainly neighborly.
Sadly, this is all it's taken to woo American voters twice in the last 8 years.
Sure, Palin is sweet and seems like a nice gal ("doggoneit!"). But will she be a good VP? The women doesn't know what she's talking about...as she said tonight "I've only been involved what, 5 months?"
Nieveatayyyy.
God bless America!
She held her own? Her own "what"?
Biden did exactly what he was supposed to do: Attack McCain and force Palin to defend him (which she did). The blows she landed against Obama were quickly pushed aside by Biden before he quickly got back on the attack. Success for him was not falling into the trap of pointing out that Palin is ignorant but letting the fact speak for itself.
What a schmuck Biden is/ No wonder he's a two-time loser~~
Some of these posts about Palin's "act" are hilarious. This woman is a cartoon.
Luna26,
She said 5 WEEKS.
I kinda thought Palin won.
She outed Biden for "voting for it before voting against it" with Iraq. The man wants us to police the world. He voted FOR Iraq...and now he's acting like he's a peace monger? Really, Joe? Yeah, it convenient to feel that way now, but will you also promise to never commit our young people to other conflicts? Probably not. That said, neither will McCain-Palin. But Joe acting all high and mighty for his stance on Iraq was laughable.
Neither discussed specifics, but their general sentiments were expressed. Biden wants more regulation, stopping big oil, and more oversight. Palin talked about how "government is not always the solution" and self-responsibility.
Seeing as neither said anything, and my economic views are wayyyy to the right, I think Palin won based on their sound bytes.
agree with chris lee. the whole time i thought i was watching tom & jerry. also what was UP with Biden when it seemed he did almost cry?
Why was Biden debating the lady-cop from 'Fargo'?
Again, low on content and high on rhetoric and cute sayings. At least they know their constituents.
1. Well this was a VP debate. You could use that line about anything anyone says about last night here. "You thought Biden won? Who cares? You're voted for a PRESIDENT, not a VP."
2. How did Biden vote on Iraq? How has he voted on Iraq since 2002? How did he vote on the Patriot Act? How did he vote on the bill that eventually reauthorized the Patriot Act? How did he vote on the "bailout bill?"
Neither is real change. Can we please stop with that illusion? Thanks.
I'm going to send the GOP my dental bills. I had to fight the urge to grind my teeth during the interminable minutes when she kept saying "nukular," "eye-rack" and "eye-ran." Good God, woman, did you even graduate from junior high?
YES! The pitbull with lipstick chewed up and spitted out the old time Washington insider, putting him in the defensive and contradicting his own records with Obama's. Gosh darn it, our small town working gal held her own against a much more experienced debater, and had a few digs of her own on Obama's and Biden's flipperty flops on Iraq. I frankly was dozing off when Biden was in his endless numbers and facts mode, while Palin's definitely spoke and connected with the audience directly with the liberal media's bias filter.
You betcha' I can't wait to see the poll numbers after this and see Palin reclaim her leads over Obama/Biden same old Washington production!
Palin 2008!!
I meant without the liberal media's biased filter above.
These aren't debates despite being called debates. If these were actual debates, then we would be getting somewhere. Although in a real debate Biden would probably just channel Neil Kinnock and you wouldn't be sure if it was actually Palin or Tina Fey since these clowns couldn't engage in anything coming close to an actual debate (like most politicians) so that is why we get this absurd bit of Kabuki theatre.
I think it would be wise for McCain to step aside and take the VP role, while elevate Palin to the top spot! You can't stop the Palin Alaskan express! President Palin we await your lead!
NEW CLE ERR
NEW CLE ERR
NEW CLE ERR
NEW CLE ERR
NEW CLE ERR
ffs
babyhitler, you forgot "doggone it." wink nod, you betcha. by golly.
she didn't answer questions because she didn't have answers--she had memorized "key points" on "key issues" that she reverted to in response to every question, and she offered nothing but broad nonsense.
i think gwen ifill should have pressed a little harder for answers to the questions, rather than let folksy little sarah just wander back to whichever talking point arose in her vacuous mind. i think her lack of response to biden's mention of his son was more evidence of who she really is than all of the bs about going out to a soccer game on saturday morning...her ignorance was shining through, and after three days of prep, this was her best? nucular, nucular, nucular. by golly.
The figure of McCain voting with Bush over 90% of the time gets thrown around a lot. Here's an analysis of that stat:
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/is_it_true_john_mccain_voted_with.html
Although Obama voted with Bush less than half the time, I don't think he represents change. After all, (among other things) he voted with Bush on the bailout...I thought Bush was all about failed economic policies. It doesn't help that Robert Rubin, one of Obama's current economic advisor, was Treasury Secretary when all this deregulation started.
I frankly was dozing off when Biden was in his endless numbers and facts mode
Oh my god, help us.
Palin is a wonderful woman and terrific mom and y'all are being SEXIST!!! She is just like me and therefore is a great choice for president! All hail President Mom!
The drinking game rules for us were simple: Drink for every *facepalm* moment. This included "maverick", "nukular", the hockey-mom card, the special-needs-kid card, the just-folks card... OH GOD WHERE HAS ALL THE RUM GONE
It would be a riot if, off camera, Palin actually swears like a sailor.
At least she wasn't the Train Wreck she was with Ms. Couric.
I think the timer light helped to reign in her run on sentences.
Reforming the Talibani has been a Maverick move.
#51 - This is a primetime VP debate, not an 8am economics 101 class in U of Missouri. Audience tends to loose attention when a politician starts throwing large numbers around. Palin's soundbites resonate with the middle working class voters much better than Biden's condescending lectures. I am sorry if you liberal elitists cannot understand that even these "simple" people get to vote.
Dude69: "I frankly was dozing off when Biden was in his endless numbers and facts mode"
oh, so you mean you dozed off when he was talking about REAL topics? this isn't a reality show or a vote for homecoming. you're supposed to vote for the person who is most qualified. Biden talked about facts and reality, Palin winked at the camera.
#14, "what's a talibani"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalal_Talabani
okay, her answers tended to have little, if anything, to do with the question that was asked (here's an idea for the networks, keep the question posed at the bottom of the screen so that viewers are reminded that they're not answering it), she was mistaken on who the commander in afghanistan is, kept pronouncing it "nuculer", often failed to speak in complete sentences and did a fair number of other things that I couldn't stand, but dear god people (and i've been seeing this in a number of places), please don't criticize her ignorance if you don't know that talibani is a person.
not to mention, there were a lot of people who aren't going to care that she didn't answer the questions, who are going to care about the fact that she spoke "forcefully", who are only going to see that she didn't admit defeat, and who, you know, agree with the policies set forth by her and her party and are going in to the debate more inclined to like her to begin with. she didn't really do much to persuade those people to not like her. and not committing any truly major mistakes, you can't discount the people like my sister who just flat out had no interest in watching the debate b/c she's doesn't think she'll hear anything new and then will get her news and the debate clips filtered through Fox News.
also, #19, it's not just that she's like bush with the folksy schtick, it's that she's bush and rove combined (if you look at the way she conducted her mayoral campaign in wasilla and her actions as governor): scary.
i'm just glad they had a camera behind them so i could get some glimpses of those milf gams in heels. yummo.
"Palin's soundbites resonate with the middle working class voters much better than Biden's condescending lectures. I am sorry if you liberal elitists cannot understand that even these "simple" people get to vote."
My mother in ohio, despite not having a college degree and traditionally voting republican, is positively insulted by how "simple" she's being treated. You're the elitist, guy. Americans are too smart, and times too dire, to vote based on a good smile and a few colloquialisms.
She kicked his ass all over the place. Biden is dumb as a brick.
chuzzlewit & xnan, sorry to disappoint you but she was winking at me.
Seriously. Who's the elitist if you think that working class voters need to be talked down to like they are children.
"Joe Six-Pack?" Really? How about "Sam Wifebeater" or "Tommy MethLab?"
She was like a pretty, coached high school cheerleader. Or Cher in Clueless when she was comparing the Haitians to a party she threw for her father.
"I am sorry if you liberal elitists cannot understand that even these "simple" people get to vote."
The reason that democracy is the worst form of government, except for the others we've tried so far.
To their credit, the liberal elitists staunchly prop up the welfare state teat for the 'simple people' to milk.
I give her props for hanging in there and I know littles girls all over the country stayed up late and saw someone they could identify with on the contries greatest stage. So I recognize what here performance does to help us but . . .
I don't want to elect a potential leader, man or woman who has such a narrow understanding of the world we live in. Our gaze has to be on main street all over the globe, not just in Alaska or Scranton. We need to elect a leader who understands that we can't just stand on the border with our moose gun and keep an eye on the Russians.
"Over There" is now Here. We need to accept that reality and elect the most qualified person for our global relations. Governer Palin is a fine example of someone who has aspirations beyond her station in life. I applaud her courage and her spunk, but it takes so much more then that to get my vote.
And one more thing . . . It's NU CLE ERR!!! President Bush had the same pronounciation disability. Let's at least elect somebody who can get this word righ.
n
"I frankly was dozing off when Biden was in his endless numbers and facts mode, while Palin's definitely spoke and connected with the audience directly with the liberal media's bias filter."
And that my friends is how George W. got elected. You betcha!
I have to say I was a little offended by her small town rhetoric. I found all her "betchas, goshdernits" etc., condescending and trite.
Our nuclear weaponry here in the U.S. is used as a deterrent. And that's a safe, stable way to use nuclear weaponry.omfglol.
dogs don't like Palin either. I will trust man's best friend judgment and vote against Palin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKEZkIRvmHY
I am not used to having a VP debate with so much winking and flirting and folksy chat. I found it off-putting and irritating, considering the very difficult, somber state of the country right now. I don't think Palin's folksy ways will work in diplomatic arenas and I found it rather terrifying that she wanted to increase the powers of the vice presidency(wink, wink, ya betcha)!
biden won by avoiding the rick lazio effect, and not looking like a mean ole man beating up on a cute little girlie.
I'm glad that Outter Burrougher explained what a "talibani" is. I'm just glad Palin got the name right. I think she said it to prove she can pronounce foreigners' names. But, she sounded like Bush with "nukular" and the "they hate our freedom" nonsense.
#39 - Biden may want to "stop" big oil. I thought one of Palin's "accomplishments" was standing up to oil co's in AK.
Stat of the night from Biden: "we spend more money in three weeks on combat in Iraq than we've spent on the entirety of the last seven years that we have been in Afghanistan building that country."
Now, this isn't literally true but it's close.
However, it reminds us how much money we have spent in Iraq on an optional war that is a strategic failure.
I want to know why Republicans can't seem to pronounce the word nuclear correctly. Is it a legal tactic in case someone laters asked them if they approved of the use of a noo-klee-er weapon, they could say "No, I said I approved of the use of nyoo-kyuh-ler weapons."?
Also, am I the only person who noticed Palin call him Obiden at one point?
Gwen Iffill was awful!
Dude69 wrote:
"You betcha' I can't wait to see the poll numbers after this and see Palin reclaim her leads over Obama/Biden same old Washington production!"
Don't hold your breath, Dude.
No, wait. Hold your breath.
She's a moron with only a cursory understanding of issues. Biden took it easy on her so he didn't come across "sexist" - he didn't take any shots at her or correct her when she was wrong (it's McKiernan, not McClellan, dummy). Ifill was hamstrung by the questioning of her impartiality prior to the debate. If she held Palin's feet to the fire, she'd have been accused of being in the tank for Obama. I think Palin avoided doing anything completely disastrous, but am appalled by the coverage that is declaring it a victory for her because she spoke in complete sentences - most of the time.
I want to eat sushi off palin's private parts like those chicks in "shodown in little tokyo" with dolph lundgren and the late brandon lee. I don't want her as my vice president.
she talks out of the side of her mouth what message does that form of body language convey? Hmm?
Screw Palin... Tina Fey for VP '08!!!
cowboys, #76, laughed my ass off at her use of o'biden
Biden summed the whole thing up so nicely.
If Tim Russert was the moderator she would never have been allowed to skirt the questions. If she didn't have a stock answer she wouldn't answer the question. She's a fake.
Why do people consider 'liberal elitist' such a fault?
How is being compassionate and well-educated a fault? Isn't that a good thing?
How is a folksy person who dones't grasp certain concepts or doesn't understand what the vice president really does, or who has only been 'at it for 5 weeks and doesnt' have any policy views yet' a good thing?
It is absolutely terrifying to me that ANYONE would think that Sarah Palin did better in the debate last night. She could only reel off non sequitor talking points and said absolutely nothing of substance about ACTUAL PLANS that she and John McCain have to help regular American people. I am truly disappointed with how gullible, too easily impressed, shallow and misinformed people are in this country. No one sees this like a train coming on full speed to wake up and realize that McCain/Palin ticket is exactly Bush/Cheney's insane ideology repackaged for soccer moms and Joe six-pack. During Bush's first term, he destroyed America. During his second term, he tried to ruin the world. What's next? Why DON'T PEOPLE GET IT??! Pick up a freakin newspaper or talk to someone from any other country but ours who hasn't fallen under this delusionary spell that has been nicknamed patriotism. Sorry but this election is another train wreck and I see it coming. McCain will probably get elected Nov. 4 and all the Monday morning quarterback reports will see this clearly when it's already far too late. Wake UP PEOPLE!!! This is not American Idol!!!!
sorry, I just needed to vent.
Look, all you liberal Obama supporters/worshippers were wishing for Palin to stumble and fall like she did at the liberal media filtered interviews. Even you have to agree that did not happen. When Sarah was addressing the public she was addressing her base, and that doesn't include die-hard Obama neophytes.
She did stumble and fall. Because she did not think for herself.
Dude69 and others attacking the "liberal media" and "liberal elite", can you please explain to me how Katie Couric asking a question like "What magazines and newspapers do you read" is a liberal question?
I hear the term "liberal media" thrown around a lot, I'm really just curious.
President McCain/Palin will bring back small government, traditional family values and take back the American economy from the hands of the Wall Street back to Main Street. USA will be debt free and energy independent for many years to come under the Mavericks!
Dude69 - to quote Ricky Gervais, "...are you having a laugh?"
The national debt passed 10 trillion last week.
"You're having a laugh!"
I don't see what's elite at being interested in actual facts and figures as opposed to choosing who to vote for based on who I feel connected most to me.
But I do see how your point of view is simple. So I guess you're half right.
#87
Problem here most Americans ARE stupid and dumb. They usually follow what their family, friends or media tells them because they aren't educated enough to have an option for themselves.
#87
Problem is most Americans ARE stupid and dumb. They usually follow what their family, friends or media tells them because they aren't educated enough to have an option for themselves.
#91 - cuz knowin' how to read is elitist! Gee willickers!
goshdarn'it, what're all y'all new yorkers talkin' 'bout on this here goth'mist dot calm website? aren't y'all mavericks like we are?
BLAME McCAIN
Sarah Palin as V.P.?
Prospect makes one nervous.
Paris Hilton's better choice--
Be of greater service