Same-Sex Marriage Bill REJECTED in New York State Senate
UPDATE: City To Remove 14 Blocks Of Bike Lanes On Bedford Ave.
Catholic League Pissed at PETA
Hamster Rides The 4 Train
Bouncer Beatdown at Jay-Z's 40/40 Club
Photograph of President Bush and Dr. Carlton Grant Wilson of the University of Texas, Austin, a 2007 National Medal of Technology and Innovation recipient, making the "Hook 'em Horns" sign earlier today by Charles Dharapak/AP
Earlier today, the House of Representatives failed to pass the bailout plan, 228 votes to 205 votes. It needed 218 votes for passage.
The Dow closed down 777 points, a decrease of about 7% and the S&P 500 was down 8.77%. It is the biggest drop since 1987. (For what it's worth, the NYSE's circuit breakers go in at 10%, 20% and 30% drops.) Zachary Karabell, president of River Twice Research told CNBC, "This is panic and ... fear run amok, Right now we are in a classic moment of a financial meltdown." And, via Dealbreaker, someone called C-Span: "We're all going to be eating peas and porridge. I hate the Republicans."
And President Bush has yet to give a comment, but after his earlier statement about the bailout legislation, he kept to his schedule and gave out the 2007 National Medals of Science and Technology and Innovation (perhaps in between calling House Republicans to urge them to pass the bill?). Update: Now Bush says, "We put forth a plan that was big because we got a big problem...I'm disappointed with the vote in Congress." Per Clusterstock, CNBC says the next vote won't be until Thursday.
Here's how the Representatives voted. Of New York's Representatives, four voted against the plan--Democrats Maurice Hinchey, Kirsten Gillibrand and Jose Serrano and Republican John "Randy" Kuhl. Serrano, who represents the Bronx, had a press release last week noting his "questions" (in quotations mark) about the plan: "When a person falls on hard times and needs food stamps, we are told they lack personal responsibility. When the biggest firms on Wall Street make outrageously risky investments, and fall on hard times, why are they not held personally responsible? Why do I have a feeling no one will go to jail for this scheme even though it could cost the taxpayers far more than any financial crisis in history?"
add to stumble upon
add to reddit
tweet this
post to facebook
Thank god for those gold bars I keep in my freezer.
Hoovervilles, here we come!
This is what everyone gets for thinking they know what "socialism" is.
This bailout was the last thing to prevent total economic collapse. I am very worried...
Why doesn't Wall Street bail out Wall Street????
Yes,that Japanese artist that just built his
treehouses in Madison Square park.
Hello! I'm moving in.Can't make the rent Thanks
Mr. President who could not get his own party
behind him on this quasi-loan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/23/business/worldbusiness/23krona.html?ex=1380254400&en=a70a39e48f33b9d5&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink
Sweden's been through this before....
Everything is going to be OK.
We're all going to be eating peas and porridge.
That's 1 way to lose weight and reduce you medical bills.
Fuck
re: the Dealbreaker comment suggesting it's the GOP's fault
" The measure needs 218 votes for passage. Democrats voted 141 to 94 in favor of the plan, while Republicans voted 65 to 133 against. That left the measure with 206 votes for and 227 against."
http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/29/news/economy/bailout/index.htm?cnn=yes
This is better for the long run, it truly truly is.
Don't worry Dubai will just buy us. Everyone. Everything.
Yay for Republicans!
bi-partisan at its best
here comes the "it's going to hurt all of us" comments.
sure it will but I'm used to it and I'm not complaining. never had I complained.
oh woe is me, no second yacht this year.
TJ, you are correct about foreign concerns purchasing private US assets and companies. The bail out was to prevent foreign companies from taking over Amerika.
"oh woe is me, no second yacht this year."
Your ignorance is kind of amazing.
but I love Amerika!
Republicans once again saving us from socialism. Fuckers.
I see you're one of them.
permission to cum aboard captain.
thanks GOP for getting us here... thanks o much!
ron paul!!
Note to self: steal a letter opener from my cubicle, with which to defend myself on the commute home.
I hope someone in the Democratic Party has the balls to challenge Pelosi for leadership either now or in January. You don't bring a bill to the floor unless you have the votes.
Finally a win for the American people. This bill would have become the PATRIOT Act for our finanical industry. Fuck congress and their we're smarter than you and we know what's good for you attitudes.
I'm w/ you Matty, people on this site have no idea how serious this is. Partisan bickering is going to destroy the market and the nest eggs of most middle Americans.
Good luck everyone, hope you've got all your money in gold bars like #1.
Nobody will be able to get loans, nobody will be able to sell their houses, retirement funds will drop like stones, construction and investment in NYC will stagnate and unemployment will jump above 15%. . . but at least we won't be "socialist".
I can't wait to see how these conservative GOP'ers plan to explain to their middle-America constituents why doing nothing was the right move while we spend the next 4 years digging ourselves our of a collapsed economy.
don't need gold, that's another fallacy.
if that's the case all those rappers are gazillionaires.
Let the market destroy itself and fix itself.
maybe this will finally get middle Americans to see what their government is doing.
"Good luck everyone, hope you've got all your money in gold bars like #1."
my money is in latinum.
Time to invest in liquor!
Why is Bush making the devil's horns gesture with his hand?
I love how you nitwits are blaming the repubs when the Dems have the majoirity in both houses and therefore could theoretically pass the bill on their own WITHOUT ANY REPUBLICANS!
Of course, they're too chickenshit to put just their necks on the line over this one. Not to mention the bailout amounts to giving more matches to the very arsonists who have burned the house down. (Yes, YOU Mr. Frank)
"...always look on the bright side of death"
Can't spend money we don't have. Although our government has been doing that for years. Maybe it's time to stop.
And business will find a way to continue doing business. There just won't be as much easy money.
The idea is that with this bill, we'd have worse consequences than you posit in your first paragraph 5-10 years from now. So what you said doesn't really sound so bad.
I'd take those consequences, get our monetary policy fixed, and get back to a true free-market with no government intervention---which caused this in the first place.
#30 because he is referencing his master?
And wait between tomorrow and Oct. 10th, it's only going to get worse.
I can't wait to see how these conservative GOP'ers plan to explain to their middle-America constituents why doing nothing was the right move
Are you at all interested in how the 94 Democrats that voted NO are going to say to their constituents?
And of course Pelosi is on TV blaming Bush for the failure of the vote.
My butt hole survives!
Pure politics. It's all going along with the GOP plan - have McCain 'swoop' into broker a deal.
Do they really think we're such idiots? This is a scandal of EPIC proportions and I think, at the very least, the Supreme Court needs to get involved.
I don't know about you, but I'm have severe crisis of confidence in all of our 'leaders.'
"I'd take those consequences, get our monetary policy fixed, and get back to a true free-market with no government intervention---which caused this in the first place."
OK... I'll bite. How did government intervention get us in this mess in the first place?
Police are erecting barricades on Wall St. and Broadway right now. Do they expect trouble?
What a disaster. People like #33, I'd urge you to read up on this plan a bit more - all business won't fail, but I think this crisis is a bit worse than you seem to think.
Not passing this bill will impose severe punishment to regular citizens who didn't do anything wrong. And it's not like they won't be able to buy that vacation house, they'll be fired because their workplace can't meet payroll, they'll lose their house, they'll see their life savings destroyed. We are inches away from the Great Depression Pt. 2 - it's not just going to be OK to do nothing.
Bottomless Chips, what was the government intervention that caused this? Was the government forcing banks to give excessive variable-rate loans to high-risk borrowers? Was the government packaging those dodgy loans into securities and then distributing them throughout the financial system without any transparency? Seems to me if the government had stepped in and stopped the reckless lending in the first place, our houses would have been worth a bit less in the long run, but the financial system would have been better off.
When everyone's future is on the line, I'm not sure a slash-and-burn approach to the current monetary policy is a good idea, at least for most people in this city.
And Drewo, business will indeed find a way to keep doing business. But they just won't be doing it around here.
let the republican base feel the scourge of the republican heads. The republican constituency is gonna feel the depression more than anybody else. they can turn to jesus and ask him to turn oxycontin into bread.
AnonPoster,
Of course people will be able to get loans, they would just need to be... how do you say... QUALIFIED! So it would be a little more expensive. Good! Sellers still need to sell, so they would be forced to drop their price. Real estate is overpriced anyway.
And this bill is not socialist, where govt provides social services and financial help to people. This is more like communism or fascism, where govt controls commerce.
dow will go below 10k by tomorrow morning.
we are witnessing history folks.
#39 David - one example, from an opinion piece in last week's NY Sun (to be missed):
At the Division of Labour Web log, an economist, Lawrence White, asks: "What deregulation have we had in the last decade? Please tell me. On the contrary, we've had a strengthening of the Community Reinvestment Act, which has encouraged banks to make mortgage loans to borrowers who previously would have been rejected ... "
The government-backed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were created precisely to interfere with the housing and mortgage markets. In effect, Freddie and Fannie diverted money to people who wouldn't have qualified for mortgages in a real private market.
Had actual private companies performed these activities, they would have been subject to market checks. But they were not. The results were predictable.
Now that it's all tumbling down, the politicians and pundits blame the free market.
Are you at all interested in how the 94 Democrats that voted NO are going to say to their constituents?
EastRiver, very fair point. Those who voted "no" on either side because they couldn't figure out how to explain this to their constituents should be condemned. Lack of political courage in the face of impending disaster is unforgivable.
And yet I don't think the rent of my apt is going to be lower... sigh...
"I'd take those consequences, get our monetary policy fixed, and get back to a true free-market with no government intervention---which caused this in the first place."
I thought there had been DE-regulation in the past fifteen years?
#46 explains it spot on
Those with the "blame bush, it's the neocons" mentality are so obviously ill-informed. It's a shame they actually get to vote with such a clear misunderstanding of the situation.
yq, I think you're wrong. Many qualified people won't be able to get loans. But individual loans is not the real problem here. It's the very real possibility that businesses will not be able to get the kinds of credit they need to operate on a daily business, which means lots of people losing their jobs. That's in addition to retirement funds being hit hard.
While this bailout sucks, the potential consequences could be much more severe for everyone, not just the rich, greedy d-bags who got us here.
@Shinobi Shaw: Why the date Oct. 10th?
rather everything tank than pay for fucking arrogance!
now if they only lined them up and let us kick them in the balls while they're down!
And yet I don't think the rent of my apt is going to be lower... sigh...
I don't know when your lease is up but I would play hardball with your landlord. Demand is sure to fall and landlords would rather keep a tenant than put a unit on the market under these conditions. Research your neighborhood and check Craigslist for sublets. I've seen a few ads with people trying to sublet below their current lease rate.
Teddie - frankly, if a business need loans to pay its day-to-day bills that business is in trouble whether or not the bill passes. Just like those families using credit cards to finance lifestyles they really couldn't afford, eventually the line of credit dries up and you pay the piper.
@39 and @42.
It's a little of what #46 said, but the real root cause of this bubble is the Federal Reserve and the absurdly low interest rates in 2001 and 2002 to stave off a recession from the NASDAQ bubble.
The excess liquidity allowed for ARMs and risky practices.
We would not have all these banks with illiquid assets (mortgage backed securities) if we didn't the easy monetary policy from the Fed. The Fed was irresponsible with our money supply and you can't print money without malinvestments and bubbles. We're seeing that right now, and if we print $700bn more we'll see a new bubble in another 5 years or so.
Times like these call for hard liquor and big glasses.
Teddie Boy Eddie,
I don't agree. If a business would be in need of a service, someone would step up and provide it, granted there's money to be made.
Take a big business in need of a loan. Let's say Microsoft. Their business might be slowing down, but no way they are failing. They are financially secure. Do you really think no one will provide them with a loan? May be the interest rate would be a little higher, that's all.
The 700 BILLION dollars of our money on the other hand will flow down to
a) Banks who made bad loans.
b) People who took out loans they can't repay.
I say a) deserve to fail; and b) won't get to live in their McMansions, some people, you know, rent.
Re: businesses using lines of credit--the unfortunate thing is that many responsible businesses do rely on lines of credit...even though to ask their clients to pay within 30 days, sometimes they don't get paid for months and need the credit for float a month or two.
real root cause of this bubble is the Federal Reserve and the absurdly low interest rates in 2001 and 2002 to stave off a recession from the NASDAQ bubble.
And the tech bubble was helped along by the Fed cutting interest rates in 1998 - when the economy was barely slowing down.
If you look back through the history of the twentieth century the average economic expansion only lasted about five years. You have to wonder if Clinton would be regarded as a genius if the economy had been allowed to slow naturally in 1998.
And hey look! The Dow's rebounding to only down 580!
Back to 18% mortgage rates from the early 80's.
Bailout + baby boomer entitlement burden will be the final swirl as the country goes down the terr-let.
Tell your kids to learn Mandarin, Hindi, Russian or Arabic.
Okay, I'm not condoning such practices. But you have to realize that people are always going to work in their biggest self-interest: greed. You cannot regulate this as there will always be loopholes. And usually the more you regulate, you more loopholes and injustices you create.
But what you can do here is limit the tools to speculate. You do that through the money supply. When you inflate the money, you allow for the recklessness and malinvestments that inevitably come about. So the amount of people it affects is greater than if you had an honest monetary policy.
And now we're compounding the problem. Failure is a good thing. But it should be limited to those who took the risks. And when you inflate the currency and then socialize the losses you're affecting everyone.
Exactly. As long as the Fed, and not the market, establish the Federal Funds rates we'll have these booms and busts.
Thanks, Jen. Exactly. Businesses need to rely on lines of credit. This has nothing to do with being irresponsible and is not comparable to people who rack up credit card debt.
No doubt that quality businesses will still have access to bank loans. Everywhere knows that lines of credit have been flying around b/c of the historical low rate of interest rates (thx be to Greenspan) and the depreciated dollar (thx be to Greenspan/Bernake).
Did people care about not meeting payroll during the internet bubble? No, because their employees worked without pay for time under the belief there were stock option payouts in the future. Well guess what happens at the end of the real estate bubble?
Drewyo (#46), the CRA is a red herring; while it does prevent excluding those who fall into higher-risk categories from having access to credit, it does not force banks to issue loans outside of the scope of affordability, or to inherently unqualified individuals, and furthermore, "...it is hard to blame CRA for the mortgage meltdown when CRA doesn't even apply to most of the loans that are behind it. As the University of Michigan's Michael Barr points out, half of sub-prime loans came from those mortgage companies beyond the reach of CRA. A further 25 to 30 percent came from bank subsidiaries and affiliates, which come under CRA to varying degrees but not as fully as banks themselves. (With affiliates, banks can choose whether to count the loans.) Perhaps one in four sub-prime loans were made by the institutions fully governed by CRA" - Robert Gordon, Economist at the New American Foundation
As far as Fanny/Freddie "[diverting] money to people who wouldn't have qualified for mortgages in a real private market", these entities purchase mortgages from private institutions, they do not issue them directly.
Botomless Chip (#57), I understand what you mean there, and agree that it was an unwise policy and has contributed to this problem, but the major contributor was the lack of transparency of these securities, something that was not forced on anyone. If there had been more transparency, those securities would most likely have been valued more appropriately, and treated with much more scepticism.
People of USA to Wall Street: DROP DEAD
MUTHFVCKERS
Agreed. Again, I just think the root cause is being missed. No doubt that everything you said is true--those assets generally do not appear on balance sheets--but I just think we're missing the cause. And we're going to repeat our mistakes if we don't address the root cause as opposed to some of the more cosmetic, but politically appealing, changes that can be made.
From Lewrockwell.com:
They were created by FDR in 1938 to fund mortgages insured by the Federal Home Administration. They were used by every president as a means to achieve this peculiar American value that every last person must own a home, no matter what. So they were given the legal permission to purchase private mortgages and make them part of their portfolios. Still later, under LBJ and Nixon, they became public companies and sold stock. People called this privatization, but that isn't quite right. They had access to a guaranteed line of credit creation with the U.S. Treasury. They had lower borrowing costs than any private-sector equivalent.
Government-sponsored enterprises are not subject to market discipline like regular private sector companies. Their securities are listed as government securities, so their risk premiums were not dictated by the free market. They could leverage themselves at 50-, 75-, 100-1, pyramiding debt on a tiny foundation of equity. The financial markets have long believed that the GSEs would be bailed out no matter what. And so this put them in a completely different position from a company like Enron, which the markets watched closely. What's causing the current panic is that the markets have wised up and started evaluating these institutions by market standards. Freddie and Fannie have collapsing market prices, and their bonds are carrying ever-higher risk premiums.
I think we should all just trust in the power of bat boy...
Henry Paulson has called on Bat Boy to persuade those in the House of Representatives who rejected it to move the plan forward.
Bat Boy seemed confident that a bounty of mosquitoes and his collection of bird skulls will do the trick.
Someone's going to have at it with PhotoShop and that picture.
even drugs are expensive now! How will people cope? I don't see anyone hurling themselves out of windows like the 80's.
i never thought i'd watch cnbc. anybody see rick santelli ranting in chicago? that guy is nuts. in a good way.
"even drugs are expensive now! How will people cope? "
In the past few months I've had dealers come out at me asking to buy coke, weed, etc out in broad daylight sometimes. Well wall street hurts, our coke dealers hurt too
Finally, a reason to be glad I'm broke! Good luck, people with savings and property.
We can all thank the GOP for their diligent effort in destroying our nation the last 8 years... Thanks you Ralph Nader.
I have an idea, was doesn't the government seize the assets of the oil companies to help alleviate this mess.
Imported is expensive because of the value of the dollar. But home grown prices will drop, even with the increased energy costs of running those grow lights 18 hours a day. I don't know about you skiers though.
Yes, let's seize up the economy even further.
I hope people will soon wake up to the face that the major oil companies have been steadily losing power as more and more oil is under the control of state owned companies.
BTW, can I say that our so-called leaders are pretty fucking stupid to say that the bailout plan is "needed" to prevent widespread financial collapse, ESPECIALLY BEFORE THE VOTES ARE COUNTED!
The whole fucking system is based on confidence. If you say that something is needed to avoid disaster and then it fails to materialize then of course there's going to a be a disaster. The morons in Washington totally lost their cool and now it's trickling down to the markets. Idiots.
this whole bailout thing is just telling america, "hey, rich and powerful corrupt people run america, I know you don't like to save them, but too bad! you have to or your children will starve"
just in case you haven't been paying attention to the CEO's and their $$$ during and leading up to this crisis...check out some of these payouts (including take home pay, bonuses and stocks) to these 10 CEO's to the tune of $836.7 Million...or over 10% of what the government is initially expected to save us from financial ruin...
Countrywide CEO Angelo Mozilo $361,700,000
Fannie Mae CEO Daniel Mudd $11,600,000
Freddie Mac CEO Richard Syron $12,900,000
Bear Stearns CEO James Cayne $42,300,000
Lehman Bros. Richard Fuld $156,500,000
AIG CEO Martin Sullivan $25,400,000
Merrill Lynch CEO Stan O'Neal $66,000,000
WAMU CEO Kerry Killinger $36,000,000
Wachovia CEO G. Kennedy Thompson $16,000,000
Citigroup CEO Charles Prince $57,000,000
...and you know this is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of who made money...10 CEO's out of many, many more...and let's just assume it at least twice that with the shit we don't know about...so let's say these 10 CEO's are good for at least 20% of the money that WE THE PEOPLE are expected to pony up so they can keep living the good life...Hovoervilles is right...
it's the american dream but you'd have to be asleep to believe it.
thank you george carlin.
yeah sure...blame the Democrats. 60% of them voted for the bailout and less than 40% of Republicans voted for it...so WHO failed to pass the bill...The whole Republican regime of Bush, Cheney, McCain and thier devil signs...will live fat into the future as the rest of America suffers by what they caused...
ans in wall street, in the form of REGULATION.
To get the 700 Billion then wallstreet was to be accountable: that’s the deal. But Republicans voted agains BEACAUSE THEY CAN NOT DEAL WITH REGULATIONS ON GREED.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
It looks like the smart thing to do is to not vote for any incumbents in November.
Not that that will help, since those who run for office probably shouldn't be running in the first place.
Fortis collapsed, a $1 trillion bank in Europe. Wachovia, a $500 billion bank, sank and was snapped up by Citi, which itself is weak. China will not buy treasuries like they once did and bless their little hearts, Dubai, Qatar, et al, are placing their bets elsewhere. (Wall St. people have been advising them for years) At the end of the day, we just watch the Republican idiots get dumber and dumber as their money gets smaller and smaller: "W shor' do know 'bout th' economy, he jes made $50 billin' from a $14 trillin' GDP!"
It's a good thing all some of you can do is bitch and whine.
You eat "pease porridge", not "pease and porridge".
Hot or cold, as you like.
I hope someone in the Democratic Party has the balls to challenge Pelosi for leadership either now or in January. You don't bring a bill to the floor unless you have the votes.
Actually, they had the votes. But now the Republicans are blaming a speech on the floor by Pelosi where she raked Bush over the coals for the situation. Apparently a number of Republicans found it offensive and decided to take petty revenge by voting against it instead.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&eurl=http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/today.member.html[/url]
Proof of the guilt of the leftist scum destroying this country
Unfortunately, this all comes down to US citizens not trusting their leaders. For right or wrong, they cried wolf too many times. The vast majority believes the wealthy congress and the president only have their own and corporate America's interests in mind. And it's all finally come to a head.
So the general consensus among the US public, for right or for wrong, is: screw em all. And our leaders are too far up their own rears to not play politics.
So God help us all.
Pull My Finger,
Limbaugh is America's Goebbels. You think I can't make a montage of republicans protesting regulations of the agencies?
stop listening to neocon propaganda.
http://www.mousesafari.com/2008/09/29/pfffft/
Let it fall. We will all be better off in the ways that really count. I for one don't live on credit. Maybe people will face each other in a different way if they are not focused on what they can BUY all the time. Greed is greed. Let it end. We will all be alright. Elect leaders who have ideas about real social and economic change. Enough already with these greedy bastards.
Cash economy now. What's the color of your money?
yg
please go ahead enlighten us
Without looking too long (about 2 minutes on google), here's one:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-1427
And the roll-call: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2007-396
Notice a little "R" next to every Nay vote. If I would have been like your mini-Goebbels on the radio, I would have went to cspan and requested every nay-voting republican's comments about this bill. Fortunately I'm not.
Anything coming fronm that jerkoff should be vetoed.
Go back to 2004 when that ass praised the theiving bastards that were stealing money hand over fist and he said there was no problem. It is the DEMCRAP CYA PLAN.
Let em sink. New ways of doing things will come about. Everything is not all about money. Dont forget thant getting involved in a protest is a good follow up to leaving a comment. Get involved write congres, and dont let them fool you into thinking the bailout will help. Those are the same people that need to understand if you dont have the money you dont get to buy it.
This has all been predicted in Harry S. Dent, Jr.'s book The Roaring 2000's. Just like the roaring 20's, depression is right around the corner...he said around 2010. Not because of the mortgage industry faltering...that may just speed things up a bit. But because of population cycles and an 80 year market cycle. Check it out for yourself.