Russia has just about opened up a second front in its fight with Georgia and the U.N. is holding an emergency session to discuss the situation. There has been fighting since last Thursday, when Georgia tried to regain control of a separatist province, which prompted Russia to send in forces to support the separatists. NYC has the largest Georgian enclave in the U.S., and immigrants were gathering to pray and phoning relatives still there, hoping they remained safe as the small country is up against the Russian Army. An 11-year-old told the NY Times, “New York has a bigger population than the whole entire nation of Georgia. Think about if New York was getting bombed, how would you feel?” [Photograph of a Georgian woman grieving her child's death in Gori by Sergei Grits/AP]
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I can't believe that when Obama asked Russia To stop bombing, they simply continued to Bomb. Perhaps they haven't heard that HE SAID STOP AND STOP NOW! I mean, doesn't Putin realize that Obama is THE ONE?
Read more of Obama's strategic positions at http://www.harvybing.com
"New York has a bigger population than the whole entire nation of Georgia. Think about if New York was getting bombed, how would you feel?"
What a brat.
Theres not much the west can do in this situation. The Russians will try to depose the current government, but they're looking at civil war if they try to put a puppet government thats friendly to Russia in its place.
yea.. a UN talk should stop everything.
The Georgians are insane if they expect us to provide military support. No way anyone, even Bush, would do this and the White House has said that there are no discussions of military action by the U.S. Just because they sent troops to Iraq does mean they have a blank check with us.
I'm left wondering as well, why the Georgians insist on hanging onto this territory and were willing to poke a bear? Over 90% of people in both these regions want to be a part of Russia.
Russia didn't think Chechnya had a right to declare independence and that it was an internal Russian matter. They said Kosovo had no right to declare independence from Serbia.
Putin is living in the Cold War.
What the hell is the matter with you, Kojak? You used to be relatively reasonable. Now you seem to be crabby all the time and snapping at everybody without cause. The kid is worried about his family and you call him a brat just because our illustrious Prez has rendered us impotent on the world stage? And what's this silliness about civil war? Whose civil war? The Georgian civilians can't fight a Russian-backed government especially after they've been bombed into submission. This is Russia's shock and awe campaign.
our illustrious Prez has rendered us impotent on the world stage?
Or maybe the Russians aren't impotent, bankrupt, and led by a drunk like they were back when Bubba was President.
If Putin is living in the Cold War, we will be too. Spiritof76 is right about us being impotent on the world stage.
Putin is well aware of the lack of support Bush has, and how small our stomach is when it comes to serious military conflict. There's no chance of us getting involved in Georgia, and Putin knows it. The U.S. will bark but will not bite.
The chance of outside intervention is zero. However, Russia is definitely shooting itself in the foot for years to come....besides the debacle with TLK-BP, Lukoil, etc. no westerner is going invest in Russia given their backward-moving nationalistic climate and extreme political risk. There are far more attractive global investments nowadays. Russia thinks they can do this with impunity, given Gazprom's et al's reserves....but they seem to have forgotten that they have neither the expertise nor politcal goodwill to keep developing their natural resources; due to their outrageous levels of corruption, their infrastructure is poor to say the least...
Everyone needs to stop this petty and childish fixation with "I blame Bush," "I blame Clinton".
EastRiver & Spiritof76, you are BOTH too smart to take such a simplistic position. The President is one man. He does not control the world. He does not control the U.S. At best, he tries to lead in one direction or another on a few issues, and deal with whatever crisis takes place during his watch.
Congress is our collective voice, and they can manage things with a longer view in mind. They make the laws. They control the purse. They can keep the President from doing almost anything they don't agree with.
We need to get beyond this blue state versus red state mentality; heck, we managed to do that for a couple of days after 9/11.
If Putin decides to invade Georgia, our response would likely be the same REGARDLESS of who is in the White House . Nothing. Same thing if Mainland China invaded Taiwan. We do not have the power, or the willpower, to engage in a major conflict based solely on principle.
"The Georgian civilians can't fight a Russian-backed government especially after they've been bombed into submission."
That is exactly what happened to Chechnya and look how that turned out. If the Georgians are just as stubborn, they'll make sure this drags on for years.
And I like to call all children brats.
"Mainland China invaded Taiwan"
That would be a little different, however you are right, we still wouldn't move to retaliate. By act of Congress, the President is required to give the Taiwanese the tools necessary to defend themselves, but it doesn't require us to rush to their aid in the event of an invasion.
But such a move would really shake up things, especially considering that Okinawa and Japan are just a few hundred miles away. They'd definitely move to send more ships to the pacific
As usual, the Western press is out to hang Russia without much regard for accuracy. Let's bring up a few key points:
1) Saakashvili foolishly instigated this conflict by bombing the Tskhinvali in South Ossentia, even more ignorantly thinking Russia wouldn't do anything about it
2) Georgia is not much of a democracy, look back to the riots in November 2007 for proof
3) Our main interest in this conflict is not supporting independence, but rather the Caspian Oil Pipline which goes through Georgia. Once again, our foreign policy is driven by oil.
4) Once it was clear that Russia wasn't going to stand for the attack on South Ossentia, they started begging Russia to call of its dogs...which it hasn't
5) Russia now wants its pound of flesh in retaliation, Abkhazia. They'll probably get it too, unless the situation changes drastically
6) When we see pictures of crying Georgians, Russia sees thousands of homeless refugees crawling across the border from South Ossentia in their press.
It'd be stupid for us to get involved in this even if we had the resources.
What a bonehead Georgian president is. As for Russia, you can't blame a dog for being a dog, this is just what Russia does, and Georgians should have known that.
But, their idiot president went ahead and attacked Russian positions in disputed areas, thinking what... that Bush will come to his aid when Russia retaliates? That Russia will do nothing, because.. of the Olympics?
Well, crap... sure, we all feel for Georgian people now, but shit... was that a boneheaded move or what?
eyekantspel,
I am not taking the position that this is Clinton's fault. I am mocking the idea that this is Bush's fault. I am also saying that the 90s were a unique time when we were the only superpower. Anyone that thinks that was going to last is a fool.
Then you're mocking the wrong thing. This war is not Dubya's fault. But what is his fault is that we have no power at all to respond right now and even less credibility thanks to the ongoing and discredited wars we're already fighting. Putin is smart enough to know that Georgia will not be as intractable a foe as Afghanistan was back in the 80s.
All I have to say is that this seems like a Chess game for a bigger chess move in the future.
If any Americans get killed in this invasion, all hell will break loose.
WW4.
What a bonehead Georgian president is
Exactly... He should be hung from the nearest tree and quickly.
Thanks,#9. Spot on. Any "alliance" that would bring the U.S. into this conflict over small renegade provinces in Georgia would simply replay the huge historical mistakes that led to World War I. Obviously, Putin's overreaching, bullying, and increasing hostility towards the West is drying up foreign investment in Russia. What few large foreign companies remain there are simply covering stakes they already have in hopes they won't be driven out like Shell Oil in Kamchatka. What Putin is apparently blind to is that without a steady inflow of capital, the huge imbalances he created in the Russian economy by pumping up a few loyal oligarchs will be exposed and reveal how little control russians have over their daily lives. As to Georgia, this becomes the new backdrop for relations between the U.S. and Russia. No longer will we strain credulity to find common ground with this thug. They are adversaries now, and we must treat them as such. The Cold War is back.
Oh, and the U.S. always has the power and capability to face down bullies like Putin. We don't spend $1 trillion every year on defense just to look the other way. We have ample strategic weapons to clear any menace in a matter of hours. Don't roll your eyes, they know this and they know that our countermeasures are at least one full generation ahead of theirs. They will bark, but they dare not bite.
But we are in a different world then even almost 20 years ago, if say a 'Cold War' is brewing it could actually escalate into a full blown 'Nuclear War.'
Especially since Russia has vested interests in Iran, Russia seems kind of bitter in this decade and could easily retaliate if more Western forces get involved.
A massive US Naval armada is heading for Iran.
I don't trust Russia's weapons systems. My laptop is more reliable than the launch systems of the rusting soviet empire, and that isn't very comforting. I see a very small chance of Russia going to high alert and 'oops' Ivan lets one of their "city-busters" fly. Ending my small existence, along with life on earth as we know it.
I have to wonder if, when the USSR collapsed instead of running in to make allies of the former states and excerbate the economic and military pressure on russia we instead truly tried to make them an ally - what would have happened - instead we enjoyed the collapsed of of thier in the economy in the 1990s and have since been trying to ensure they get less by making allys and nato members of the former states. I'm not making a judgement call, but it seems predictible that now that russia can strike back a bit they are...its a shame russia will be at odds with us for the next 50 years and it didnt have to be this way...i wonder what else could have happened.
"Think about if New York was getting bombed, how would you feel?"
The root causes crowd would have the Georgians ask, "What did you do to make the Russians so angry with you?"
Obama's Spiritual Advisor would say this is merely the Georgians chickens coming home to roost.
If the Russians decide to take Tbilisi (the capital of Georgia) to being down the government, they might decide to turn their attention toward the Ukraine next, at least the eastern part with the large number of Russians living there.
But what is his fault is that we have no power at all to respond right now
And if we weren't in Iraq right now what exactly would the response be? Go head to head with an oil rich, nuclear armed Russia? On their border? I'm thinking no.
East River,
I'd have to agree, we can't exactly shoot at Russian troops. Even without the nukes: No Land War In Asia. Putin would make a land war so bloody that Iraq would look like a Hannah Montana Concert. And that is just the American GI's that he would eviscerate with his icy stare.
F the the UN. They have meetings to have meetings. Why is NATO just standing around doing nothing?
Bush warned them. LOL. Yeah, Russia's scared I'm sure -- we were also saying the guy that nailed us on 9/11 was wanted dead or alive and the best we could do was some other guy and bomb a random country.
There was a day when a country might be concerned that the USA was threatening to intervene.
I think the truth with Bush is they know we simply don't have the power we used to have in the world order. We've have our ass kicked by bin Laden and that was the game changer right there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj9kjvCEBHo
blablanyc (#29):
NATO (US+UK etc.) is busy invading Iraq.
Now, why is Russia not doing anything about that?
I mean c'mon, it's really simple: the big dogs are too smart to against each other. They just devour the little ones. That's what being a big dog is all about.
That's just my point. These treaties an organizations are just a farce.
Roquentin and ixvnyc got it exactly right.
And remember that Georgia is the big dog against the little South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
The U.S. supports indepence of Kosovo, but not of these? Why? And the opposite from Russia? That's global politics. You underestimate the Russians if you think they are still fighting the Cold War. This is the Oil War.
The president of Georgia is a fool.
The UN's Security Council is absolutely worse than worthless IMO.
Russia has a veto in the Security Council. So why bother, other than to be on the record about something. This is a bilateral conflict by their words. We can easily resolve this on that basis. Let Putin try something with us: Los Alamos and Lawrence Livermore Labs has his answer.