Got a Tip?
tips at gothamist
About Gothamist

Gothamist is a website about New York. More

Editor: Jen Chung Publisher: Jake Dobkin

About Us & Advertising | Archives | Contact | Mobile | RSS | Staff

Favorites
Newsmap
Contribute

Latest tip:

<a href="http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hRVtdfaLJf-MBMVdTXp9IxmvNhtw [more]

 

Latest link:

 

Latest Photo:

 

Subscribe
Use an RSS reader to stay up to date with the latest news and posts from Gothamist.

All Our RSS

August 11, 2008

Cyclists Behaving Badly at West Street Walkway

2008_08_bikedismount.jpgDowntown Express takes a look at that half-mile pedestrian walkway at West Street, where, due to construction, cyclists are supposed to dismount and walk their bikes from Chambers Street to Albany Street. Unsurprisingly, pretty much nobody obeys the rules, and last month a cyclist reportedly hit a woman in the leg on purpose after she yelled at him and his buddies to walk their bikes. Now one community board member is talking about requiring licenses for cyclists. But Dennis Graff, a steamfitter at a nearby construction site, insists pedestrians are overreacting: "'What do you want, a four-lane highway? People are crybabies.' Then he hunched over, imitating a little old lady, and called out in a creaking voice to the cyclists on the path: 'You’re going too fast, sonny!'"

Email This Entry







Advertisement: Gothamist Continues Below!

Comments (43) [rss]

Yeah, that's uncool. If it says to dismount, you should dismount... otherwise, all you're doing is proving all the people who hate cyclists right.

 

"requiring licenses for cyclist"

Oh sure! Let's pass more laws that will never been enforced. Very good idea!

I ride over there all the time. I'm guilty of having ridden where it says you should dismount. Just use the parallel street (can't remember the name - the one that's west of there). Fairly quiet street, not too much traffic.

 

does anyone know the fee for getting busted riding a bike on the sidewalk. I was busted last weekend. the cop was heavy handed but I cooperated. I mean I was quilty. I hate to play the race card, but I am black, I think it was a pre-text. They ran my Driver's License thru the system and tried to be really intimidating..anyway, I'm not gonna go there..how much do you think the Mayor's gonna pinch me for?

 

I don't understand why old people are still alive. Just die already.

 

Ugh, it's cyclists like that who give bikers a bad name. I jog in that area and I can't stand it when cyclists don't dismount. I'm always careful to watch out for bikes, but when it says to dismount, I let my guard down and almost get run over.

 

How about a construction site in a bicycle greenway comes up with a better plan than asking riders to dismount? Howabout accommodating the cyclists in some way? This is only the nation's busiest shared-use path.

When there are construction sites that go out into the right-of-way, do they ask the motorists to get out and push? No, they close the sidewalk, put up a sign telling pedestrians to cross the street and let the cars travel freely. Except people usually end up walking in the road anyway. It is natural human behavior.

Can't they build another 10 feet of sidewalk instead of creating this totally obvious conflict? I blame whoever approved this plan for not having the foresight to see that cyclists would not obey these signs.

 

@chris lee - I'm pretty sure the cops do stop black cyclists where they wouldn't stop white/latin/asian. At least that's what it seems like on the UWS.

 

Why don't they put in a speed bump or rumble strip that, at the least, would cause cyclists to slow down or stop (thus giving them an "opportunity" to dismount)?

 

Why don't people just not hit each other on purpose? It seems like the pedestrian getting whacked and complaining is what made this an issue.

Pre 911 that area was a pedestrian nightmare because it was so old and much too crowded, now it's like playing Frogger.

Walking west from Bway to get to World Fi requires squeezing through 2 blocks of scaffolding that is not big enough for anyone larger than a size 4, hoping cars realize that painted line is actually signifying a 'curb' as you cross the WSH, crossing guards who cross both cars, peds and bikers against the light and a pedestrian bridge that's actually a 'Moby Dick High Seas Sailing Simulator' because it is swaying off the moorings.

If ever a place could use a bit of urban planning, it's Manhattan below City Hall.

 

Well..ummm "Eric"..it was on So 3rd street in Wmsburg. It was starting to rain a bit and dark, I was just cutting thru to Bedford on the sidewalk. He asks me "Do you have anything on you you shouldn't have..? etc" Luckily there were alot of people in an outdoor cafe. I made a big show of saying I wasn't resisting arrest and they were very supportive..anyway..I read somewhere that they changed the law to make it ok for them to charge up to $100..so it's a revenue scam too.

 

The bridges are even worse. With people flying down them on their bikes, my friend got hit by a cyclist he was on a bike as well and broke his collar bone. No one really cares about anyone else except for themselves.

 

No one really cares about anyone else except for themselves.

True. There's plenty of blame to go around. I see cyclists on walkways and pedestrians and joggers on bike paths. Happens on the west side and on the Brooklyn Bridge. Nobody gives a damn about their own offenses, only about pointing the finger at what someone else is doing.

 

A big major issue for cyclists right now is the creation of unenforced bike lanes. Think about it. You see a car driver in the road. The road is missing a lane or two of it's previous thoroughfare splendor, taken over by a bike lane that too few seem to enjoy. Outside a bodega in the distance, there's a car parked in the bike lane. And there's a cyclist rapidly approaching said car.

By their right, the cyclist looks for a gap in the traffic and enters the main lane of traffic, slowing the car down because now the driver has to wait for the cyclist to go around the car that illegally blocks their lane.

So what do you do? Here's what most NYC motorists do:

1) They lay on the horn because those damn cyclists already took a good and valuable lane from them (and heavens, now they are using the lane designated for car traffic!) It often doesn't matter that the stop light a quarter-block away is red and they will be stopped for at least a minute at it, THEY NEED TO HURRY UP AND GET TO THE RED LIGHT NOW!

2) Or they try to squeeze through at high speed, and if they are lucky, they don't make hamburger out of the cyclist.

3) Or both of the above, laying on the horn, causing the cyclist further instability in said death match, coming that much closer to a muscle twitch that causes a cascade of ambulance calls, police reports, hospital stays, court time and insurance settlements.

This seems rather unrelated, to the current article, but it's not. More bike lanes mean it's easier for cyclists to safely get where they are going. The reality is cyclists are going to take the shortest path between two points. It's Just Not Going To Change. But it's also true that for two paths that take equal time, the one that has less turmoil will always be chosen by a cyclist. Riding slowly without falling over is hard for less experienced cyclists, so if they have a path that they don't have to ride at walking speed and risk falling on their face, they will take it, even if the distance is longer.

More bike lanes cause cyclists to avoid walking paths, first time, every time.

Once people try riding for more than a few days, they get hooked. It's a great way to get around, and it improves life quality in cities as people save the money they used to spend on motor fuels, insurance and parking and start spending it in their neighborhoods. Cars are always available when absolutely needed from groups such as ZipCar. Ignoring those focused entirely on themselves, everyone wins!

MORE BIKE LANES NOW!

 

Once people get vehicles - whether 4- or 2-wheeled - they get an attitude of entitlement over the plebes, those of us with the temerity to walk in our city.

Cycling advocates have the audacity to belittle pedestrians, seeming to forget that when they dismount they become the very pedestrians they criticize.

This article illustrates precisely the problem with cyclists. They whine for special treatment and rules, but have no respect for society's rules or other people's space. It's all about "me"and my little toy!

Until they show respect for others, they will not receive any in return.


 

I ride fast, when I can. I call out, "on your left or heads up!" Pedestrians ignore me. Cyclists either listen, turn left into me, or jump and freeze, not moving to either side. Hordes of people have iPods and can't hear you.

So what good does it do to call out?

I avoid the bike path like the plague on weekends. More cyclists on the road, due to gas prices or whatever, means more people who don't know how to ride properly.

I ride year round. I want Winter back, now!

 

I walk up and down along the river a lot, and I do grumble a little when I get to that stretch and riders don't dismount. But I have to admit that for the most part, riders make an effort to be considerate over here, and so I try not to quibble. I know they have legitimate complaints about pedestrians and car drivers, too.

Riding on the sidewalk bothers me more.

 

thefacts: I've pointed this out to you before, but you obviously didn't pay attention: courteous cyclists -- and they do exist -- don't become just another pedestrian when they dismount. Why? because unlike the average pedestrian, they are actually TUNED IN to what people on bikes are doing and what they have the right to.

When I'm not on my bike, I don't stand in the street (blocking the path of oncoming bikers)... if I choose to jaywalk, I look before I step out into the street (both ways, because I know there are bad cyclists who could be riding down the street the wrong way -- and I let them know it)... I could go on and on.

You are right on one count, though: discourteous cyclists ruin it for the rest of us, because no one will give cyclists respect until more folks start yielding to pedestrians when they have the right of way, etc.

 

"on your left or heads up!"

Don't do that. If you have to warn a pedestrian who is just walking along, you're passing too close and/or too fast. Slow down and pass at a safe distance for the speed you can slow down to.

That "Heads up" stuff is analogous to cars honking at you on the bike. It means "I'm coming, I'm faster so you should stay out of my way" Which is baloney - the vehicle doing the overtaking is the one that has to be extra careful, not the vehicle or person being taken.

I ride a lot and almost never dismount for those kinds of signs - they're obnoxious road/path design that would never be attempted on drivers. That said, when on a path or road like that, cyclists should go super-slow (like the pace of the fastest walker around) and not expect pedestrians to get out of their way.

 

Riders on the Pulaski bridge also don't feel the need to dismount despite the signs saying so. They then have the nerve to say, "excuuuuse meee!" In the zones that allow riding I'll happily stay on one side, but if you're riding in the restricted area you have no right to expect pedestrians to move.

 

" if I choose to jaywalk, I look before I step out into the street (both ways, because I know there are bad cyclists who could be riding down the street the wrong way -- and I let them know it)... I could go on and on"

wow that is absurd, pure example of double standard and no logic. its ok for you to jaywalk b/c you looked both ways!!!?? i'm not saying i don't do it, but please stop with the petty rationalization.lets talk about rights and equality if you really want to. that can go on and on..

we need an infrastructure which is designed to avoid these conflicts. there's the same problem in central park. lots of pedestrians and people running/biking, and lots of bad cross walks. Just build ramps everywhere, or make a highline park throughout the city! lower level cars and walkers, upper level bikes, joggers, etc.

 

Gwinny, with all respect, I believe you do practice courteous cycling and walking. Actually, many cyclists do. Many of my friends bike a lot and they share our disdain for the renegade or ditzy cyclists. Unfortunately, you are the minority, it seems to me.


However, honestly and truly, I get into more problems with cyclists than motorists, because drivers have more to lose (their license, higher insurance premiums, potential criminal charges for unlawful moves) than do cyclists.

Anyway, keep practicing your civilized behavior. Maybe it will catch on.

 

People as well as bikers need to obey the rules as this city gets more and more crowded. I realized the other day that people were eight feet past the curb on seventh avenue waiting for the light to change! Further down towards Penn Station (the mecca), people were actually occupying almost a whole lane of traffic in their impatience with the sidewalk. And wondering why traffic was so bad when they got to the corners!

It's time for us all to start doing things right. You realize if someone gets hit by a bike or a car while standing in a crowd eight feet into the street off a curb, he'll probably hurtle right into the people around him and hurt them too? Everyone seems to think they're only risking their own lives and mind your own business, but it's not so.

We need some lessons in civics here. I used to laugh at the Germans and the Japanese for never jaywalking or crossing before the light changed, but I'm beginning to understand....

 

(Oh, sorry I said "people as well as bikers"! I mean "pedestrians as well as bikers!" Bikers are people too!)

BTW - where are people on xooters supposed to ride? I'm thinking of getting one.

 

Road rage is dangerous. I know of a (gentle)man who while crossing Avenue A at 2nd Street with his young daughter told a passing biker to be careful. He was beaten up by this biker and suffered brain damage, who was never caught. It took years of therapy for him to approach normal.

 

What's wrong with people? Just put your heads together and come up with positive solutions for mutual problems. What is there is obviously inadequate. Complain to your local officials about the construction nuisance instead of complaining about bikes.

 

FYI "on your left or heads up!" is a courteous alert. It's not saying "get out of my way." I suppose other people use a little dingy bell.

Personally, I say it mostly when it appears a tourist isn't paying attention to their immediate surroundings.

---------------

"Complain to your local officials about the construction nuisance instead of complaining about bikes."

This is the smartest statement I've read here all night.

 

Bicycle Nazis.

 

"FYI 'on your left or heads up!' is a courteous alert. It's not saying 'get out of my way.' I suppose other people use a little dingy bell."

Do you really want, for example, cars alerting you that they're passing. If they're passing you with enough safe distance, there is no need for that sort of alert. Cars honking at you for simply being on the road?

It works both ways. If you're passing a pedestrian on a bike with sufficient space there is no need for that sort of thing. Now, if you feel you have to pass close (perhaps the pedestrian has almost stopped and are in the center of the path) you can ride up slowly and say something like "Excuse me" or some such request. Asking, not telling.

Even if your "friendly alert" doesn't mean "get out of my way" too often it means "don't dare move - I'm coming by a bit too close." Not good.

 

I ride fast, when I can. I call out, "on your left or heads up!" Pedestrians ignore me. Cyclists either listen, turn left into me, or jump and freeze, not moving to either side. Hordes of people have iPods and can't hear you.

You're going too fast too close to pedestrians. Any time you have to warn them, it's not good. As for cyclists, they're not supposed to move to either side. "On your left" means to be aware that someone is passing on the left, not a command to move over. Even most cyclists know that unless you're on a fast training ride outside the city, it's rude to shout "on your left." City streets are not for fast riding. You're not a bike messenger.

 

i work here, and i have never seen anyone dismount, you know why? because 85% of the guys riding here are delivery people who can't speak english. i haven't seen it be a problem nor have i had any close encounters. this is a non-issue.

 

I've ridden through this walkway many times and I don't think I've ever seen anyone on a bike dismount. I often avoid it altogether by spending the extra 2 minutes to ride around the block, especially when I know there will be two-way foot and bike traffic. That pass is way too narrow for all of that activity. That said, I'd say most cyclists slow way down and weave their way through it without incident.

 

I've always just gone slow and never had any issues over there. I've even seen people stop walking and move over and nicely let me and other bikers by.

 

Cyclists never obey traffic rules.
Cyclists in New York City are NOT "green" or help the environment - sorry that distinction goes to the millions that travel the greatest public transportation system in the USA - another vehicle on the road (yes you are a vehicle and have the same laws as cars) causes harm to our Urban Environment.
Cycling in New York City should only be for sport and casual use or messengers - you show me a bike commuter I'll show you an egoistical moron that has no respect for their neighbors and doesn't have the slightest clue about my above statement.
Cyclists in New York City reap what they sow when they get injured.
This is all written by an avid fan of professional cycling and private sport cycling,
I ride on my weekend mornings in Yonkers.

 

@Chris Lee,
It might be worth contesting the ticket.
http://www.bicycledefensefund.org/bikelaw.html

As for racial profiling, absolutely. I am white but I live in a mostly black neighborhood and there is a *huge* difference in the way bike-related laws are enforced here vs other parts of the city. But when I get stopped, I don't get asked whether I am carrying anything i shouldn't be carrying.

 

As a transport bicyclist -- it's how I get from one place to another -- I have given up on the West Side bike path in the summer. It is virtually impassable due to walkers, runners, children (including toddlers), strollers, dogs, what have you. For some reason joggers are particularly addicted to bike paths and I've noticed them running in bike lanes even when a nearby sidewalk or pedestrian pathway is empty. The East Side bike path is equally useless for the same reasons, but not just in the summer -- year-'round.

The Pulaski Bridge walkway is too narrow for both pedestrians and cyclists given current levels of traffic; the speed limit on the bridge needs to be reduced and bike paths painted so that bicyclists can use the roadway. There is plenty of room. In general, cyclists and pedestrians should not be in the same spaces. While some bicyclists understand "on your right", etc., most pedestrians don't, and many of them move unpredictably. I always defer to them under all circumstances even if I have the green light or the right of way and have managed not to hit one in 61 years, in spite of the fact that they often step directly into my path regardless of lights, signs, or traffic conditions.

Riding on the sidewalk is not only dangerous for other people but it's dangerous for the rider as well. Motorists, who often can't see anything smaller than a car even when it's on the road, can't see what's on the sidewalk and may turn at corners or into driveways at high speed without warning and hit cyclists. They hit pedestrians this way all the time.

As far as safety goes, licensing bicyclists will have the same effect as licensing drivers: nil. It's just a scheme for raising money and employing more cops and bureaucrats.

 

Speaking as a cyclist who does not dismount in that area: the guy who kicked the woman is an asshole and I hope he got caught and arrested.

 

Call me Captain Obvious... But how about writing some tickets for those who choose to disobey the rules?

 

@glennQNYC
If you are going to write tickets to traffic scofflaws that would have to apply equally to pedestrians. That would be a big revenue producer as there are plenty more of them than bicycle scofflaws.

 

@staryygordon
The Hudson River Park bike lane is clearly marked "Bicyles Only". The PEPs never attempt to enforce that.

 

Ya know, I'm an avid bicyclist and we're usually biking the HRP on the weekends. What irritates the crap out of me are the speed demon cyclist, you know, the ones with the little matchy outfits that match their bikes. Last week I CLEARLY signaled I was turning left to cross over to 34th and one of those matchy guys almost ran into to me on the left side. God forbid the tool slowed down or passed us on the right. Of course we cursed the a-hole out but wtf? Why do they feel they have the right to go as fast as possible and not even slow down or watch out for other bikers!

 

grove: I don't understand what you your problem is. I'm not saying jaywalking is the best way to get around; quite the opposite, in fact, since as a cyclist I come across clueless jaywalkers all the time. I am merely saying that when I am a pedestrian, if I do choose to walk out into the street at a place other than the crosswalk -- and let's face it, who can honestly say that they never do that? -- I look both ways because I know that there may be bikes coming.

thefacts: I totally hear what you are saying, and thanks for the clarification.


 

boohoo boohoo poor pedestrians. keep your eyes open and cooperate with your fellow pavement users.

this message also goes for bicyclists who clog up faster moving roads, drivers who clog up the passing lane on fully constructed interstate highways, etc.

 

haha spiritross - are you serious? are you real? i can't tell, cause that drivel is so hillarious and stereotypical of the babbling that weekend warrior tools from yonkers would spew forth. i'm thinking it might be satire, and if so bravo. if not, you're a tool, most of cyclists thinks folks like you are a joke.

 
Post a comment (Comment Policy)

2003-2008 Gothamist LLC. All rights reserved. Terms of Use & Privacy Policy. We use MovableType.

Site Meter