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Drinking in New York has long been reserved for private homes or establishments with liquor licenses (or speakeasys!), but how well is the law enforced when it comes to drinking on a stoop or in a public park? Apparently, and unfortunately, the law is still being upheld very well. A few years back the tabloids wondered why cops looked the other way when it came to Chardonnay swilling audiences listening to the symphony in Central Park, while the beer-drinking crowd at a 9/11 memorial in Rockaway incurred plenty of fines.
Have the cops stopped turning a blind eye to imbibers, no matter what their class? OTBKB points to a Park Slope Parent message board posting about an allegedly tame group of picnickers busted for an open bottle of wine in Prospect Park; four cops doled out tickets for the illegal deed, and now "a friend" of the fined is questioning how hard it is to fight.
Meanwhile, someone at the NY Press was recently hassled for savoring a caramel Middle Ages IPA in public view on a friend's Brooklyn stoop. He questioned why open air and sidewalk drinking is allowed at bars and restaurants, but imbibing on one's own stoop is illegal. While there's always Pocket Shots and To-Go margaritas, is it time to allow drinking in designated public spaces around town? After all, other cities allow it (though in London they just banned it on public transport), and public drinking at the city-leased Pier 17 in South Street Seaport hasn't yet led to anarchy. Just bad dancing.
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ka-ching!!!
Yup. Ka-ching is right. The city makes a decent amount of money by fining people who drink in the parking lot at Shea Stadium, on the lawns in Prospect Park, etc.
pigs bbq-ing in the park ok, littering gets a blind eye, but civilized people sipping wine isn't?
You do get busted for littering by the sanitation cops, they're as bad as the Park's cops.
and, they try and bust you with residential refuse in street bins.
public drinking areas are a bad idea. restaurants and bars are places that have always been places specifically for drink. when you leave the establishment you are expected to act civilly and considerately because it is space we all share. if you want to drink at home go right ahead. drink as much as you want. bust the place up it you want. its your stuff. public places like parks should be completely accessible and enjoyable to everybody equally.
Being drunk in public should remain illegal, as Veeelchop suggests.
However, there doesn't seem to be any reason that a person should not be allowed to drink in public. My one concern is litter -- whenever I go to Vegas it's covered in beer bottles, and I worry that the same could happen here in certain areas (e.g. Times Square). But other than that, I don't see any good justification for a law prohibiting adults from drinking a cold one in the park.
"public places like parks should be completely accessible and enjoyable to everybody equally."
exactly, so I should be able to enjoy a cold beer while lounging in central park on my god given day off(assuming I'm lucky on that day and the weather isnt shit).
The people who would be a problem in public are already getting hammered in their home or a bar and going out and causing a ruckus, I really dont think allowing drinking on stoops and in parks would change that all too much.
Drinking is the new smoking. Anyone who cares to have a beer, a glass of wine or a shot will get hounded from one place to the next. Today it's your own stoop, tomorrow your own living room.
It's just a matter of a few more years before the government mandates obligatory jogging and tofu eating.
I got popped for an open 40, fled the country, and returned only to find the the issuing officers had a lot more to worry about than a $25 ticket and never turned in the paperwork. Still, I think it had to do more with the hobos with whom I was loitering.
Public drinking doesn't cause any more litter than public eating. There are beer and liquor bottles strewn across the city's sidewalks, streets and parks sitting alongside hamburger wrappers, cigarette butts and water bottles.
I think that even in london only assholes leave a bar with beer.
It's a lot easier for the police to enforce a "no drinking" law than a "drunk in public" law. For the former they just need to see you drinking from a container, for the latter they need to make a judgement call as to your behavior.
In pre-Ghouliana NYC, the paper bag rule was in effect, and I think that really worked well. Basically, if you were drinking in public, as long as the police couldn't see that obviously alcohol (ie it was in a paper bag) and you weren't doing anything criminal or acting like a jerk, the police couldn't mess with you.
I have a very specific memory of walking down 4th street towards A one summer afternoon with a Corona pounder in a bag. I saw a cop, smiled, because it was nice day out and he said, 'Dump it out'. I replied, 'What? It's in a paper bag.' He laughed, and said 'I know, but now Giulani wants us to bust people. Sorry, just pour it out, I don't want to give you a ticket'.
That was when I knew NYC would never be the same. I think you should be able to drink in public, as long as you behave yourself. That's the way it works all over Europe, and they don't have much a problem. We're grownups, we should be able to have a beer in public.
Yes, Everywhere below 14th street!
I was one of the 8 picnickers in Prospect Park with a single bottle of wine for a birthday picnic. Most of us weren't even drinking. The ticket is called a "quality of life" violation, which is bullshit b/c enjoying a glass of wine with my meal improves my quality of life. There were dozens of other groups with cases of beer, screaming children, and fireworks. None of them were busted even though the cops lied and said they were going around to everyone.
And regarding class: our group was a mix of classes, ethnicities, occupations, and sexual orientations. We had a full spread of food and one person just happened to bring a bottle of wine. The asshole cops on a power trip needed to fill a quota on the Fourth of July weekend and our relaxed group was an easy target. They ambushed us asking for our IDs without even telling us what the problem was. They then spent almost half hour over at their popo carts while we wondered what they were going to do. People are getting abused, killed, and raped while these 4 idiots save the world and waste our tax dollars by ticketing 8 people having a quiet picnic in the park. The only people ruining the quality of life was them.
you were easy pickins, the law abiding stoolies will always get the ticket. now they got 8 people who will doubt cops. but they don't care.
thankfully Pb is still cheap in America.
to regulate a "drunk" law, could you arm cops with Breathalyzers?
I once got busted carrying a case of beer, still in the cardboard case! - in central park, not even a single open bottle or can. After an appearance in criminal court, with an attorney, the charge was ACOD'd.
This post, or a followup, ought provide better greater background on why we have this policy.
It seems Emily D has it right, responsible behavior absent loutful conduct should be okay, even with a law probably designed to combat some anachronistic social ill.
I'd really like to leaarn why we have this law.
My gut is that the policy behind it makes sense and I would probably be in favor of continued strict rules governing public consumption of alcohol.
The dude at the Seaport dancing was epic.
Bring back the paper bag rule! And until then...throw it in a paper cup with a lid or something. I'm a bartender, and after work, I always take my "shift drink" on the train with me...in an inconspicuous to-go cup with a straw. Same for in the park--keep the wine bottle hidden, and drink it out of something else. You may be able to get away with enjoying the picnic a little more.
It really is sad when the cops have nothing to do but hassle people for popping a drink or two or ten. They really should spend more time at their local Dunkin Donuts and stop harassing people that actually live in NYC, rather than where they come from on Long island.
Cops are losers, plain and simple. As pronounced on there cars. CPR! Creeps, Pricks, Retarded,
we weren't just swigging out of the bottle. we were using plastic cups for everything, including our virgin iced tea.
Discretion by cops = discrimination as judged by the courts. If cops allow well-behaved people to sip wine at a picnic in the park and crack down on raucous people drinking beers on a stoop that may or may not be theirs, it will wind up being a massive discrimination/class-action judgement against the City.
I think that there should be a distinction between public drinking and public intoxication, but does anyone really trust the cops to make that distinction accurately, fairly, and without prejudice as to how subserviently a citizen behaves towards them?
Unfortunately, if one wants a community free of drunkards pissing on the sidewalk openly, the City has to outlaw drinking in public altogether, or it's just inviting million-$ lawsuits based on unequal and discriminatory enforcement of the law. And that discrimination can have nothing to do with race; it can be about income level, homelessness, level of neighborhood enforcement, whatever.
The paper bag rule was fiction, an old wive's tale. It never was. And it doesn't and never did protect you from a fine. You were still breaking the law. And it made it real obvious what you were drinking.
It was up to the discretion of the cop. If he wanted to bust your balls, he would, paper bag or not.
What the cop was really saying was "no more discretion".
And what about the giant styrofoam cup? Only in classy beer joints.
MFer - Farrell's??
That's why I always fill up my Sprite bottle with pure vodka!
One solution: Buy one of those big iced tea cans. Drain the swill. Cut off top. Model appropriately, depedent uopn your drink. Makes a perfect sleeve for a Bud/Coors/etc. 16 oz. Don't be an obvious ahole, pee in public, get in stupid fights. No hassles. Doesn't work for a Foster's, Kirin Ichiban, Sapporo. Used to toast the NJ state troopers (driver NON-drinking with our obvious "Pepsi" (Genny Cream Ale, baaaarrfff) cans on the Turnpike. Reason wine sippers get tagged: they won't shoot the ticketing agent, and are more likely to pay the tag.
Responsible drinking & innovative obfuscation is the key.
Dadoc
It seems the smart among us know how to skirt the rule (using another container, concealing, etc.) that it affects largely those it should.
"If cops allow well-behaved people to sip wine at a picnic in the park and crack down on raucous people drinking beers on a stoop that may or may not be theirs, it will wind up being a massive discrimination/class-action judgement against the City."
Really? Which Amendment to the Constitution was it that made "raucous people" a protected class?
The steps in Union Squares ... especially at night, you can smells the boozes, cops are everywhere. You can also smell weeds miles away. Nothing like a blind cop. =)
sorry, only for actual residents, we need a "I actually live here and pay taxes, f-wad" card, and then let the cops bust dem stinkin youts from lawnguyland and jerseycesspool for drinking in public...
Don't see a problem having a drink on one's stoop either ... used to sit and sip an iced coffee on mine (no longer live at the same place, no longer have a stoop) ... would it have led to a ticket if I'd added something to the coffee? Hmmm.
hooray veeelchop & Dave Hogarty for being the only reasonable & logical people in this thread! thanks!
sorry foodlover but JacqueMehoff is right:
"you were easy pickins, the law abiding stoolies will always get the ticket. now they got 8 people who will doubt cops. but they don't care."
Ever since that "paper bag law" was voided, I started to fill Snapple or Grape Juice bottles with red wine; Vitamin Water with beer...etc. Cops would never know what you're drinking. Sometimes you just have to do what you got to do to improvise. Why is it that the elite can only enjoy being inebriated in public places. I'm sorry but I 'd rather not pay for $20 glass of wine at those wine bars, when I can get a good bottle of wine for that price.
NYC Public Drinking Law 10-125
Based on this, you shouldn't get a ticket drinking on your stoop.
ยง 10-125 Consumption of alcohol on streets prohibited. a. Definitions.
Whenever used in this section, the following terms are defined as
follows:
1. Alcoholic beverage. Any liquid intended for human consumption
containing more than one-half of one percent (.005) of alcohol by
volume.
2. Public place. A place to which the public or a substantial group of
persons has access including, but not limited to, any highway, street,
road, sidewalk, parking area, shopping area, place of amusement,
playground, park or beach located within the city except that the
definition of a public place shall not include those premises duly
licensed for the sale and consumption of alcoholic beverages on the
premises or within their own private property. Such public place shall
also include the interior of any stationary motor vehicle which is on
any highway, street, road, parking area, shopping area, playground, park
or beach located within the city.
b. No person shall drink or consume an alcoholic beverage, or possess,
with intent to drink or consume, an open container containing an
alcoholic beverage in any public place except at a block party, feast or
similar function for which a permit has been obtained.
c. Possession of an open container containing an alcoholic beverage by
any person shall create a rebuttable presumption that such person did
intend to consume the contents thereof in violation of this section.
d. Nothing in this section shall be deemed to prohibit the consumption
of an alcoholic beverage in any duly licensed establishment whose
certificate of occupancy extends upon a street.
e. Any person who shall be found to have violated any of the
provisions of this section shall be punished by a fine of not more than
twenty-five dollars ($25) or imprisonment of up to five (5) days, or
both, or pursuant to the provisions of the family court act of the state
of New York where applicable.
You should be able to drink anywhere, just not be drunk. These types of laws are just like blue laws, rooted in religious beliefs. A modern society that allows adults to drink should allow them to drink on the street. Public drukeness is a public nuisance and can be dangerous and thus should be fined. It seems silly that I can slam down 4 beers, get in a car and it's perfectly legal (and even if i get stopped 30 minutes later at peak BAC I'll still blow under the legal limit) but I can't drink one tasty brew?
I love sitting outdoors and having a nice relaxing glass of wine, however I lived in New Orleans for 5 years, where it is legal to drink in public as long as it is in a plastic container.
Let me tell you, the majority of people got smashed, broke stuff, urinated and vomited on my apartment steps, passed out in my courtyard, and created an incredible negative "quality of life" for me and everyone who lived around me. The neighborhood constantly reeked of vomit and stale alcohol, crime was rampant, and really it just ruined a beautiful city. I'm not just talking about Mardi Gras and the French Quarter either, this was year-round in ALL areas.
It would be so nice to be able to have a glass of wine or cold beer at an outdoor picnic in a public place, but honestly, there would be no way to regulate the majority of people who cannot control themselves. You'd be surprised at how many people completely lose their logic after one or two drinks.
I agree with most of the posters above. As long as you are inconspicuous about it and not a loud drunken fool, there are ways you can get away with it. And I definitely think having a drink on your own stoop should be allowed.
isn't a stoop part of your private property? it's essentially like drinking on your front porch, no?
i grew up in new orleans, and 10:31 is crazy. unless you lived in a tulane frathouse on broadway, i have a hard time believing that in your experience the majority of people in new orleans behaved as you described above. the people who act that way are rately locals, and typically don't show up in most parts of the city.
[39] - Maybe it was just bad luck but each year I lived in a different area of the city, and each year, I had troubles like that. Of course, it's worse in the FQ but that was where the majority of the public drinking got out of control. I just can see the drunk frat boys in the West Village and Chelsea turning it into a ridiculous 24/7 drunk-fest. I lived on St. Anthony Ave in Gentilly, lots of people smashed early in the day staggering around the neighborhood and urinating on lawns. I still loved the area because it was close to the Lakefront. I lived uptown on both Tchoupitoulas and Freret...granted the Freret address was close to the colleges and a block from Broadway, so that probably explains that. And there were a bunch of bars on Tchoup near me that were 24/7. Maybe it was just a consequence of poor taste in places to live? I don't mean that people were slobs 24/7 in front of me, but all year meaning not just for Mardi Gras. It seemed like there were a LOT of transplants from the midwest and such who all just wanted to drink and party all the time. It's sad to see people move there for those reasons. The city is beautiful, especially Audubon/City parks and the river. It just seemed that most people had a serious lack of self-control down there.
I still do miss the city though. =)
I just think unregulated public drinking in NYC wouldn't be such a good idea!
"Based on this, you shouldn't get a ticket drinking on your stoop."
The way it happened to one friend on mine, drinking a beer on his stoop in Bushwick, it played out like this: cops roll up, ask him to come to the street to their car. He puts down the beer and stands up, cop says "You can bring that with you." He did so, and they ticketed him for having a beer on the sidewalk.
Don't worry, he admits his moment of trusting stupidity.
to emilydickinson sorry but its not true at all.
In Spain (and yes, its Europe since lot of Americans doesnt know where it is, i hope you do) you can not drink in the street... True be tall, tons of young ppl used to drink liquor in the streets, plus sodas, plus bags of ices, glasses...people drunk peeing in the corners and never pick it up so city squares were a mess (tons of ppl used to do that)
Otherwise, yeah, it should be legal, to sit down in a park and enjoy a beer or two as long as you not bothering anybody and clean it up after yourself.
Michi
www.glimpseofnewyork.com
I've often wondered whatever happened to those plastic-y sheets with "Pepsi" and "Coke" logos (actually they were altered, kinda like Wacky-Packs) I remember seeing back in the early 80s, that were used to wrap around a beer to disguise it.
There's some money to be made folks...