Gothamist: After Setting Apartment Fire, Child is in Critical Condition

Abraham Rappahannock

Thu, 10 Jul 2008 00:47:59 -0500

yeah baby, more instant karma aka crispy critter

grimwomyn

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 14:19:15 -0500

@Editrixie: What do you think I mean? At 5 years old the kid is an arsonist...

JenChungsBra

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:55:21 -0500

I like, Editrixie, how you backtracked on your backtracking and then backtracked again.

Colochita

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:37:30 -0500

Ok, zodak - I checked out all four links (the first and the last links go to the same Daily News article)and couldn't figure out how someone gets the nickname Tito from Jay either. I was sort of assuming it came from Morales, but you sound like you know, so why not just tell us?

Editrixie

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:29:34 -0500

grimwomyn wrote: Low income parents need real support. They need mental health services, child care services and information about positive parenting. If those services were provided these kids would have a real shot. As it stands now, Tito's family should prepare for his future and present life of crime. Yes, and providing such services comes up against at least two generations of abusive or neglectful upbringing, in families that have children very young. Positive parenting is something that should be taught early on, along with birth control and respect for others. But what do you mean when you say his family should prepare for "his future and present life of crime?"

grimwomyn

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:18:56 -0500

Factors of child abuse and neglect plague lower income, uneducated families. To get back to the subject of the story, my eyebrows raised at the "Described as strict" part of the story about the grandmother. As a parent in a lower income neighborhood, I see this everyday on the streets and in my daughter's school. It isn't a race thing, it is an education and stress because of low income thing. Low income parents need real support. They need mental health services, child care services and information about positive parenting. If those services were provided these kids would have a real shot. As it stands now, Tito's family should prepare for his future and present life of crime.

Colochita

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:46:27 -0500

Editrixie, you are stunningly ridiculous.

Editrixie

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:28:13 -0500

I will add that there are plenty of sleazy and low-class white people running around this town, too. Abuse comes in all forms and colors, but it always seems to be the inner-city blacks that are more public about it.

Editrixie

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:19:41 -0500

Yes, bclm - my apologies. I realized after hitting the "Post" button that I inadvertently left out the fact that I have only observed this in what appear to be poor and low-income uneducated black families. I agree with that -- of course it is not just black families that treat their kids that way! It is often endemic of poverty, not race, and the welfare mind-set (although I was raised by a single parent who struggled on welfare and was not mistreated this way). However, it always seems to be these poor inner-city black families that I see again and again treating their kids like this during the course of my travels in the city. Most of the Hispanic families I see tend to keep their children close to them, but I have observed many let their children run wild. Yet I have not seen Hispanics mete out the kinds of punishment or react with the amount of anger that poor blacks do with their kids.

zodak

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:10:30 -0500

"How do you get "Tito" from Jay? try reading 1 of the linked articles before you comment.

bclm

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:02:48 -0500

To editrixie: Please give me a break. You are not talking about black people, you are talking about poor uneducated people, who can be of any race and often seem to be crappy inattentive, rough parents. In my neighborhood I see Hispanic parents who let their kids run wild and think it's cute. It's about class (in both senses of the word). I grew up middle class and my parents never spanked or hit me or yelled at me as a toddler. My parents looked out for me and I got a great education. And yes, I'm black-but I guess that might scramble your thought processes and 'logic' up.

nik13

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 11:59:41 -0500

Natural selection at work.

Editrixie

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 11:48:18 -0500

The other day on a bus stop, I saw a toddler crying as he stood at his mother's feet. He cried and cried and cried, reaching up to his mother, and she just ignored him. The woman she was talking to also ignored him, as did the teenage boy that was with them. Everyone at the bus stop was looking to see what was wrong. The little one had tears streaming down his face - he just wanted to be picked up and held. After a few minutes of being ignored, he reacted by turning and dashing away toward the street. I stopped him from going into traffic and she came over and yanked him up by one arm to pick him up. She did not even attempt to comfort him, and continued her conversation. This family was black and -- I hate to say this, but -- the scenario is similar to instances I have observed in the city many times and is typical of how I have seen black parents treat their children. They are often ignored and then punished for things no one would punish a child for. I once saw a black family in the bus terminal in Philadelphia, with their children all dressed up in hip-hop fashions, yell at their baby for falling out of the chair. The kid was less than a year old and they had propped her up in this big wide seat, fixing her clothes so you could see the labels, and she slid down the seat and almost landed on her head when she fell out of it -- and they yelled at her. The mother turned to the father and said, "I bet that's the last time she tries that!" As if the baby had done it on purpose. Overprotective yuppie parents are often made fun of, but at least they're looking out for their kids. If these black kids survive the abuse, they grow up and do it to their own kids. I tutored some young people in college (remedial English) and one of them, a black woman of about 20, told me she thought her parents were too lenient on her younger sister because they weren't beating her with belts like they had with her. Here as a young woman who was very creative in her writing but so timid she could hardly speak up or accept a compliment - yet she thought corporal punishment was a good thing. I can definitely imagine a two-year old whose revenge is to run into traffic growing to be a five year old whose revenge is to burn the apartment down.

Jen S

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 11:37:06 -0500

This sounds familiar: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107034/

citizenerased

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 11:25:23 -0500

Likely no-one will get a chance to 'straighten him out' with third-degree burns over 70-90% of his body I'd be very surprised if he survives. Sad but you play with fire.........

babyhitler

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 11:21:36 -0500

How do you get "Tito" from Jay?

Bizzle

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 11:05:59 -0500

#11 Beautiful accusation, but this is not an issue of a racial stereotype. The kid was being baby sat. I did not see anything regarding visiting. Additionally, I have not seen any kids go from angels with Mommy and Daddy to calling 911 and threaten death with to baby sitter (family related or otherwise).

JRod5417

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 10:57:09 -0500

Forget grounding or butt-spanking. Sounds like the kid needed an exorcism.

NYC Stef

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 10:47:23 -0500

I know its terrible to admit, but the first thing I thought of after reading that first paragraph was "well, he won't be playing with fire again anytime soon." Now before anyone goes off on me, I personally love kids; I'm in grad school getting my degree in Childhood education and I'm two months away from becoming a mother for the first time. But this little guy sounded like he had some serious issues. Perhaps he needs more positive attention from his family or maybe just a regular smack on the ass to keep him in line. Whatever the case may be, I just don't think there is anything normal or funny about a 5 year pulling a "stunt" calling 911 claiming that his granny had died. That should have been the family's first warning.

Peter

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 10:45:27 -0500

It's a reasonable bet that his medical care is going to cost the taxpayers lots and lots of money.

bklynd

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 10:32:51 -0500

How come no one has asked, "Where are the parents in all of this!?!?!" Um, because he might have been simply spending the weekend at grandma's house, like most kids do from time to time? Not everyone is a racial stereotype.

Bizzle

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 10:27:03 -0500

I don't have kids...I don't like kids... so it's easy for me to say it. Good! The kid needs to learn that there are consequences for his actions. Now whenever he looks in the mirror, "Tito" will remember what happened...how it happened...and what motivated him to do it. I truly hope that none of the neighbors’ homes were severely affected by this brat that needs to be straightened out. How come no one has asked, "Where are the parents in all of this!?!?!"

JenChungsBra

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 10:17:50 -0500

Darned if I don't agree totally with ican'tspell. I read this story on the train this morning and my first though was well, at least the little nightmare won't be around to hurt anyone else (remember Betty Shabazz?). Then I felt guilty and thought that since he's just five with a good intervention and some therapy or something there's still time to turn him around. Damn! If he was only 12 or 13 it would be a lot easier to leave another cynical comment on Gothamist for this one.

eyekantspel

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 10:04:41 -0500

I've got mixed feelings on this one. This kid is just 5, but sounds like something of a nightmare. Agree with dbc, you'd think that given his history, a little extra care to keep matches away would have been used (although I guess he could have used the stove or something). While I'm sorry the kid burned himself, if anyone had to get hurt, I'm sort of glad it was him. This fire could easily have killed other innocent people. Terrible start in life for this kid... sounds like he was already kind of a bad apple and, if he survives, his physical problems aren't going to make his or his family's lives any easier.

dbc

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 09:50:29 -0500

In the Daily News, the kid's uncle said, "The baby played with matches. ... He tried to play with matches before." Why were matches/lighters still available to this kid if he had a history of messing around with them? Most adults know to keep matches, cleaning supplies, bleach, etc. away from small children.

zodak

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 09:49:42 -0500

"It's hard to imagine a 5-year-old being capable of starting a fire out of revenge." you obviously have no experience with nyc kids.

dbc

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 09:46:07 -0500

It's Knickerbocker Avenue, not Knickbocker Avenue.

MT

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 09:45:41 -0500

It's also hard to imagine a young kid being a murderer, but it's not unprecedented. This kid sounds like he was a bad apple. if he hadn't hurt himself he probably would have hurt another kid on the playground who pissed him off.

Ralph

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 09:44:22 -0500

Sounds like a pleasant little chap.

whantmoore

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 09:43:30 -0500

Well spoil the child when you spare the rod.

Peter

Tue, 08 Jul 2008 09:41:57 -0500

It's hard to imagine a 5-year-old being capable of starting a fire out of revenge.