May 14, 2008
Are New Yorkers Rude or Just Overly Familiar?
It's a common observation, but are New Yorkers really more rude than residents of other cities? In Smithsonian magazine, New Yorker dance critic Joan Acocella thinks we’re just misunderstood. After years of life in the city, she’s made a thorough argument that what outsiders perceive as rudeness is just a side-effect of life in New York, where the boundaries between public and private life are less pronounced.
New Yorkers spend more time up in each other’s faces in public, and thus feel comfortable being familiar with one another, Acocella asserts. So we’re less inhibited when it comes to telling strangers they’re annoying the hell out of us. And she thinks we also have more solidarity than other cities because most of us share the same aggravating experiences of mass transit, tiny apartments, and ice cream truck jingles.
The downside of all this for Acocella is that living among New Yorkers is “a little like being a child again and having your mother with you all the time, helping you, correcting you, butting into your business.” Which maybe explains while the Still in Diapers scene is so big here.
Photo courtesy Joe Schumacher.
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Hmmm.... New Yorkers are considered rude for not caring about other people, not for butting too much into other peoples business.
What city do you live in where strangers are talking to each other often?
New Yorkers' tendency towards impatience is often mistaken as rudeness by those unaccustomed to the pace and congestion of our lives.
When I lived in Manhattan, I noticed that people rarely said "thank you" when I would hold a door open for them, as before entering a restaurant.
Now I live in Astoria. It's very rare for me not to hear a thank you under the same circumstances. The difference is striking and never ceases to amaze me.
I lived on the Upper West Side in Manhattan, near 96th Street. I frequented a restaurant on 95th and Broadway. People acted as if I were their doorman, although I think people thank their doormen if they have them. Discourtesy ruled the day.
I'm curious about this phenomenon. I think people are too distracted to notice that someone is doing them a polite service. Why is not the same thing true here in Astoria?
However, even here in polite Astoria things change once one is driving.
We're not rude enough. We're now a city of mass disdain, comme Paris, where we let others know how we've got more game than they with a glance. Old New York was a place where if you cocked a snoot at someone they could call you on your shit with a well timed insult. Let's put the seriously rude back into New York.
Perfect example: I walk into a favorite deli which is kitty corner from a public school in Astoria. The people who own the place and work there are extremely nice. Today as I'm waiting on line, this woman from the public school comes waltzing in complaining about her sandwich - it wasn't right, blah-blah-blah. The woman behind the counter starts to make good on the original order and to me, no problem. This customer proceeds to keep jawing about the service, about what the person behind the counter is doing, about the fact that she "takes too many cell calls" while she's working, etcetera.
I waited a minute and then said to this customer in a loud voice, "You should be nicer to people when you walk into a store". As all bullies do, she turned on me, her neck twizzling around as she tells me to mind my business and "how do you know that we're not friends and that's the way we talk to each other". My response was simply, "If that's the way you joke with someone, by belittling them in front of a store full of customers, then that's a messed up friendship". It ended with her telling me to "get a life" and me saying, "Don't make me tell you twice".
A classic NY moment.
because if you were to say "Hi" and "thank you" to everyone you meet on a daily basis in new york your mind would explode. It's just too many people to be wary of and empathetic towards.
Rudeness is an art form and it should always be directed at the people above, who think they are better than God, and the people below, who suck. It is class warfare at its finest. Vive la rude!
Nope. New York is rude.
A woman of my acquaintance lived in New Orleans for a while.
It was not uncommon for people to bond and form life-long friendships like, while waiting on line at the frickin' drugstore.
To people from that kind of background and vibe, yes, we are deeply rude.
I've given lots of thought to the NYers are rude theory. My experience is that the really rude, the SUPER rude moved here from somewhere else. They think they need to be harsh to make it in the big bad city and so they act like assholes all the time. NYers, born & bred, use rudeness like a bullet in their back pocket, not flinging it around all the time but using it judiciously. Now, abrupt..that's another matter, telling it like it is, being forceful. Sensitive types who are used to being coddled will lump all that together as rude. Native NYers are polite and helpful.
What is polite here is rude elsewhere. Here, it's polite to ignore people to a certain extent - I've heard it referred to as "polite inattention". We're mashed up against eachother all the time, so we act aloof to give eachother that false privacy.
I've been spending some time in a small deep South city lately, where, if you pass someone on the street, they say hello. They're just acknowledging your existence. I actually like it, though it took getting used to, being a lifelong New Yorker. Of course, as soon as I come back here, if someone says hello to me in the street I think they want to mess with me. Kinda sad.
Then again, we are very friendly and helpful here once you get past our impatience and abruptness. And, incidentally, so are the French.
I can honestly say I have never heard New Yorkers referred to as "overly familiar" and "intrusive" before. Is the author really living in this city?!
What I've observed, and heard from others, is that New Yorkers are actually much more reserved, and much less likely to butt into your business, than those in other cities. They keep to themselves, they don't tend to say hello to people on the street, they don't get to know their neighbors, etc. If a stranger addresses you, it's most likely to tell you to get away from them or leave them alone.
I think this is link that answers all your questions about speech patterns of New Yorkers.
most new yorkers will butt in only when they see you looking at a map.
@EricRoberts: True. It's also holding an imaginary sign that says Run Me Over. And also the ones that walk snail pace.
Familiarity? Yeahh...Maybe if it was a small town of 100 and everyone knew each other. I think New Yorkers are sarcastic and to the point. Imagine dealing with sugary sweetness of "Yes, Ma'am" and "Thank you" everyday, you'd surely kick yourself in the face. No one has the time to banter back and forth, "You go first", "No YOU, go first :) ". In the Midwest perhaps.
New York is Rude.
In the subway, there is a problem.
More often, people wants to get on the train
and not let you get off first.
You have to fight your way to get off.
Some dare to say "excuse me" loudly to
get on the train before letting others get off.
Gotta agreee with # 10 - I was in a crowded movie theatre on the Upper East Side with my wife and some jerk-off practically knocked her over while she was coming back from getting our tickets. She said something to him to which he replied "This is New York. Get used to it." I walked over to him and shoved him hard enough for him to lose his balance and he had this meek 'wtf?' look on his face and I told him this was ok because we're in NY, right?
We exchanged some words and found out he was from PA. Jackass.
People are rude in New York and it usually is on purpose. There is also a false sense of urgency here. Most people aren't in any more of a hurry than someone else in this country. New Yorkers just like to think they're special and that its ok for them to be rude or not give a shit. But since people here feel like they're entitled then they don't respect the person next to them or put themselves in other people's shoes.
The best people in this city are the Bangladeshi in Long Island City/Astoria. They are how people in this city should be. Friendly, courteous, yet hardworking and successful. No false sense of urgency here.
If everyone respected each other here then there would be no need for the rudeness and no reason to get in someone's face.
How could I forget. If there weren't so many dumbasses there would be a lot less rudeness. The fact that people don't pay attention to where they're going or pay attention to their surroundings is fucking rude in my opinion.
People who say dumbass aren't from here.
Nope, I'm not from here.
But I'm here now.
New Yorkers are not particularly rude. Certain ethnic groups have rougher manners than others, and may be misunderstood, but by and large they are polite and helpful. Remember, a huge percentage of New York residents are foreign-born, and do not think acting like an illiterate cowboy or thug is the height of coolness.
However, New Yorkers by and large believe that everything from New York must be bigger and badder than from anywhere else, therefore, New Yorkers must exceed the people of all other cities and towns in rudeness. Were Number One!!! Sorry to let you know, folks, but it just ain't so.
I have to say, I've just moved here from England and I don't think New Yorkers are rude at all!
I've been living here 4 months, and there seems to be a basic level of courtesy that *everyone* (on Manhattan at least,) pays to one another. This is different from other places, where some will be polite and some will be rude. For example, people here always seem to hold doors open for each other. They always apologise when bumping into you, even on the subway. The other day a man threw a cigarette butt into the street (rude I guess) that almost hit a cyclist going past. The man made a very genuine apology, rather than simply saying sorry and walking off.
There is a sense of urgency to life here though, so people may do things such as not say thank you as doors are held open for them. I myself have had to dispense with saying "Good morning, how are you?" when buying my coffee each morning, as it doesn't seem to be very appreciated. Just because some forms of ettiquette don't exist here though, it doesn't mean that New Yorkers are rude.
I've been here 4 months, and in that time I've formed the opinion that the stereotype of the rude New Yorker isn't true. Who thinks i'll change my mind?
Farivan- I was born and raised in NY and I've concluded that NYers are indeed rude. Case in point: some dude accidentally burned my arm with his cigarette as I was leaving the Times Square station. OUCH! Did I get an apology? Nope. The guy just looked at me as if I ruined his cigarette. I walked off to work holding my arm more upset that I didn't get an apology than the burn itself. So yeah, NYers are very rude. In time, you will reach the same unfortunate conclusion.
@25: That's happened to me too.
I think every city has its flaws. For all their rudeness, a lot of NYers are also willing to go out of their way to help strangers.
It really is about boundaries -- Good people are willing to be kinder to strangers than people in other places would be, but bad people (or people having bad days) will be much much worse.
#25, I would bet that that person was not a New Yorker. That's my experience again and again and again.
Just because he's an asshole, and he's in (visiting, living, interning, passing through)New York a)doesn't make him a New Yorker and b)doesn't make New Yorkers assholes.
New Yorkers are VERY accustomed to being around/smashed up against large groups of strangers every day of their lives. NYers assess strangers constantly and instantly: are they sane? do they smell? are they safe to stand near? etc. NYers know that in an instant, messing with/mouthing off to the wrong person can you you knifed, for instance, which is why NYers tend to keep it in check. I would bet that the deli asshole in #5 is not from NY. NYers have street survival skills that do not include wanton open hostility/violence, i.e. burning someone with their cigarette.
Re: #5: "Don't make me tell you twice" is not something a NYer would say, unless they didn't mind having their jaw broken. NYers know that anything can happen at any time, and DOES. NYers are wiser than that.
As far as manners, everyone I grew up with in lower Manhattan were drilled to say please, thank you, excuse me, etc, held doors, gave seats to the elderly/infirm/pregnant as a matter of course...or we wouldn't have sat down for a week. That's everyone. Manners galore.
Dear #28:
I was born in NYC and have lived here my whole life. It's not that I don't mind having my jaw broken, it's just that I'm not going to live my life scared of bullies. Screw them. If anyone wants to mix it up with me, so be it.
"Don't make me tell you twice" is the best thing I could come up with to tell this particular bully, "I'm your daddy".
@stereotypical:
You must be joking? I'm going to assume you're just trying to save grace, by polishing high morale shine on what I assume, your peoples. My experience with Bengladeshi folk in Astoria were anything but friendly, courteous, hardworking and/or successful. In fact, everything you've voiced in your commentary(perhaps a shadow-side projection?), are what the undereducated, undercivilized Bengladeshi folks need. Especially the incompetant folks at Dunkin Donuts on 30 Ave. The cashier girl who could probably find the wonders of shaving cream to remove that hair around her mouth, than to give me wrong orders and a huffy attitude, whilst speaking in her native tongue to her coworkers about how difficult my order was to understand.
"If there weren't so many dumbasses there would be a lot less rudeness. The fact that people don't pay attention to where they're going or pay attention to their surroundings is fucking rude in my opinion." Irony at it's finest!
The Japanese, Greek(and various other white folks), Mexican, Spanish here are far more courteous in their service to me than the Bengladeshi.
NYers are not "rude" until they need to be, which is nearly always when the other party is wrong, in black and white (e.g. Splicer & JP Lynch, whose actions I commend). I've found most people to be respectful when treated with respect, and I've found them able to handle things with an aptitude not found elsewhere. I've found most to be far more well-mannered than people are elsewhere.
I agree that it's rude when people from Ohio don't pay attention to where they're going, and then they consider you rude when they run into you--whatever they want to think is fine, but they also need to be able to walk down the sidewalk without slowing people down and getting in the way, and it's useful to point it out to them at times. And yes, a lot of people try to be as much of a dick as possible by not letting people off the train before trying to board...and those people are often shoved out of the way by people getting off the train. This type of behavior occurs no more frequently in NY than it does anywhere else...
Bottom line is that if you're minding your own business, treating people respectfully, and most important, not acting like an ass, it's unlikely that someone's going to be rude to you. The city has its own efficiency, and if you want to do something to ruin it, someone will and should call you out on it, and while it may be the collective populace acting like a mom, it's probably for your own good.
The bullet is in the back pocket for a reason, as it should be. We don't need people like the broad who ran into the deli bitching about her sandwich, and we don't need people like the one who ran over JP Lynch's wife thinking it's o.k. to act like that.