Gothamist: How a Try at Religious Understanding Turned Disastrous

Mr Mel

Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:08:05 -0500

Religion belongs outside the public schools. If people feel that they need this type of education for their children, there are parochial schools that operate outside the system as well as after school programs. If there is a large enough demand, Arabic (or any other language) can be taught in a public school - but not religion.

nycat

Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:44:48 -0500

You guys do realize that there are Arabs who are Christians too, right? When I took Arabic in college for a few years, I learned not only the language, but the songs of Umm Kalthum, the politics of the Middle East, the recipes of a good hummos and babaganoush, the festivities, the literature, the movies. We even had a big summer BBQ in Arabic. And yes, we learned about the religions. Plural. Sure, Islam is a component of Arab culture, but not the only component. I remember growing up (outside of the US), I went to Catholic school, and people were saying, OMG, if you learn English, they would convert you to Christianity. Well, I learned English, and I figured out that nuns go to churches, but, I'm not Christian. I'm hardly anything at all. In college, I had a very religious Jewish roommate, whose parents came from the Middle East. Arabic was their language, she and her mom used the same terms, you know, like God willing, thank God, praise God etc, like the Muslim Arabs used. That didn't make them Muslim. Language is communication and it is cultural. If you don't speak it well, if you don't speak it at all, than you can hardly bargain for a good price at Sahadi's and the suqs in Morocco. Let alone fight extremism.

megs

Tue, 29 Apr 2008 04:48:06 -0500

I think it's a little disingenuous to say that a madrassa (Arabic for school) will only teach the language, with no Islamic content. Chinese schools include Chinese culture and Spanish schools include Latin American culture. It contextualizes the language. Islam is the culture of most Arabic speakers. It's not a language in a vacuum. I'm not even saying if its wrong or right-- I'm saying that this doesn't make sense. Further, if religion was not a component, why was the Jewish principal who replaced Almontaser, so objectionable to so many people involved with the school? Yes, he did not speak Arabic. But he wasn't supposed to teach it-- he was supposed to be the head administrator of the school.

altrent

Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:54:54 -0500

So lemme guess -- I'm a bigot because I don't want to be killed by someone who wants to kill me because I don't believe in their God. All I hear is that the Koran preaches peace, and understanding, and whatever the f*ck else, but all I read is of people killing other people in its name, with barely any protest from anyone except whatever fourth-rate think-tank scholar they can dig up to say, "Ah, such behavior is frowned upon by the teachings of the Koran." Uh-huh. Well, look, it's been at least a thousand years and I'd hope most Christians could grudgingly agree that the Crusades weren't the best method of self-promotion, and now we come to this every day. Can we please finally frown upon repeated and senseless killing in the name of religion? And can we please finally say that we do NOT WANT ANY OF THESE THINGS BEING PREACHED, or being funded by people who would preach it, or who would believe it, or who would in fact commit these acts? People are apparently able to tee off on the Orthodox Jews simply becasue they don't "get" what it's about, but here we're supposed to sit around and think it's OK when entire communities practice adherence to some shadowy faith which seems to commit violence against non-believers far more often than any other. How about, I DON'T WANT IT HAPPENING HERE?

altrent

Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:46:39 -0500

BTW "cultural accomplishments of Middle Eastern countries". Consisting of what? Banning any rights of women, or endorsing, if not suggesting, if not enabling and legalizing the outright killing of anyone who doesn't agree with some stupid religious tenet? I am SO SICK of this garbage. Forget about "embracing" anything having to do with "Middle Eastern culture" -- it's not going to make them stop wanting to kill anyone who doesn't drop what they're doing in order to pray to Mohammed five times a day. GO BACK TO YOUR HOME COUNTRIES AND KILL EACH OTHER IN THE NAME OF YOUR RELIGION.

altrent

Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:38:40 -0500

Crazy, crazy world. And, sadly now, country. I don't want to be there, where ever "there" is, when the dirty bomb hits. And you know what? I didn't even mention any of this as a lead-in to the next idea, but here it is anyway: when that dirty bomb hits, I predict with 100% certainty that it will have been wielded by some crazy f*cking "Muslim" doing something in the name of his "God" (which, to any non-Muslim, means being killed). And then there will be not a peep of protest from any of the Muslims who wonder why non-Muslims distrust them or cast a suspicious eye upon them. Well, killers-in-the-name-of-your-religion, it's because I don't want to be killed merely because I don't believe in your religion. So take your religion, your schools, and your beliefs, and go to fucking hell, and do it in some other country where you are all satisfied doing nothing other than killing each other because of some slight divergence in your religious views. For the good of all non-crazies across the world, PLEASE SIMPLY KILL ALL OF YOURSELVES OFF, AND LEAVE EVERYONE ELSE OUT OF IT.

blablanyc

Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:18:12 -0500

How about a school which teaches kids how to read, write and do math?

JacqueMehoff

Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:05:24 -0500

then why are there catholic schools? before you say because they are private, so you're telling me they don't receive ANY public funds or services?

Hey NICE GASH

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:33:19 -0500

Separation between church and state. The school should never have been opened to begin with. It was a muslim-centric school, but everyone has to step on eggshells these days, thus noone on the city council opposed it's initial opening....they might have hurt a muslim's feeling and been labeled a racist by the press. Everyone should stop their fucking whining and the school should be shut.

Spiny

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:21:18 -0500

Who's bringing religion into this? The school was not intended to promote religious understanding; it was meant to teach a LANGUAGE. Arabic, a language that this Daniel Pipes guy sees as inherently problematic when taught to American youth -- and yet it's a language that is going to be crucial to our foreign policy in the 21st century. America needs people who are fluent in Arabic, and it needs people who study the Middle East, if it's going to make policy decisions on everything from national security to immigration to energy. Daniel Pipes and his fellow "Stop the Madrassa" bigots are the ones who came up with this idea that teaching the Arabic language = teaching radical Islam. Islam was NOT supposed to be even brought up at this school, except in global studies classes (as it is in every other NYC public school). The cafeteria was NOT going to serve halal food. There was no religion involved here -- this school was about a language that happens to be spoken in a part of the world where a particular religion predominates, but language and religion are two separate things. Case in point: if a student or scholar learns Latin (a "dead language," but one that is still taught from time to time, especially in classics programs), is that student or scholar being indoctrinated into Roman Catholicism? Of course not. But god forbid that anyone should learn a language which is NOT "dead" and which is going to be hugely important to the political and economic future of our country and to keeping people like Daniel Pipes safe. I love the irony of a right-winger opposing the increasing participation of Muslims in mainstream American life, citing examples like women-only hours at Harvard's gym, and Muslim cab drivers who won't carry passengers with alcohol. The Christian right wing in this country thinks it can dictate who can get married, and how and when couples can start families, on the basis of its religious beliefs. Who wants to bet that Daniel Pipes is just fine with that?

sonyactivision

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:55:13 -0500

Religion just makes people seethe and want to kill each other. Hallelujah.

Steven

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:41:31 -0500

The ironic part about religion is supposedly bringing people together and feeling good inside yet it causes much more problems than good. There is too much of my religion is better than yours, this religion doesn't make sense, your religion does strange things etc.

UnrepentantFenian

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:14:11 -0500

Holy shit, I actually agree with babyhitler. This is the true definition of irony - Islam looking for understanding of their religion.

Dave Hogarty

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 20:27:45 -0500

The saddest thing about this whole episode, aside from costing Debbie Almontaser her dream, is that it has made NYC look less like the cosmopolitan city people imagine, and more like a backwater hick town unable to co-exist with them damn AY-rabs. It's absolutely pathetic. I hope some people are appropriately ashamed of themselves.

babyhitler

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 20:06:15 -0500

religion and understanding go together like oil and vinegar. they don't mix. Don't people understand that in the most simplest terms religion is about Greed? You do what your religious tenets tell you to do so that later on in the afterlife you get boatloads of virgins, happiness or whatever jewish people get. I personally don't believe in religion cause I know that there won't be any hot naked chicks in heaven so what's the point?

Snoopy

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:21:30 -0500

What if a school was established that promoted the god given rights that white people are and should be the only divine people on the planet? Let alone that this country was founded and established by white Christian male landowners (no Catholics or Italians) and that until they changed the voting rights to allow other white non land owners, the country was doing just fine. That started it all in the early nineteenth century. I guess the board of ed would disapprove of that school.

Tim N.

Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:00:30 -0500

Read the article last night and found it very disturbing. Bigotry. Period.