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Photograph from yesterday's Sean Bell protest by urbanblitz on Flickr
The Reverend Al Sharpton is planning a series of rallies and acts of civil disobedience in the wake of the acquittals of three police officers involved in the fatal shooting of Sean Bell. Bell, who was a few hours from his wedding, was unarmed when undercover police fired at him 50 times outside a Queens strip club on November 25, 2008.
At yesterday's National Action Network rally, Sharpton said "he was meeting with labor and civil-rights leaders" this week to discuss a day of civil disobedience, "We strategically know how to stop the city so people stand still and realize that you do not have the right to shoot down unarmed, innocent citizens with no probable cause. his city is going to deal with the blood of Sean Bell."
After the rally, protesters marched for 20 blocks, carrying 50 numbered posters--each representing the shots fired. And, today, Sharpton said that Representative John Conyers will meet with Bell's family and visit the site of the shooting. From the Daily News:
"We are going to walk the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee to show him how far the scene of the shooting was from the club.The NY Times has an article about the black community's reaction to the verdicts. Some are giving Mayor Bloomberg credit for being more open."It shows that the policeman had 50 different things he could have done in 2-1/2 blocks. If they thought that somebody was going to get a gun, he could have called for backup."
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whatever. You think black people are gonna strike in manhattan? they'd have to take a bus from east queens to get here. All 100 angry dudes. Sharpton does not have a million man march cause. It's actually embarrassing how little people are actually up in arms about it. Maybe cause they realize that the police officers who shot at the black guy were also black.
The city will be quaking in its boots when Al Sharpton threatens its economic existence. Other than KFC, Popeye's, McDonalds and the stores that sell rap music, most of the city is safe. I doubt if any bookstores will go out of business due to the boycott. I bet he's going to resurrect Tawana Brawley's virginity to proclaim the truth.
It's a shame he doesn't hang out in tawdry strip joints late at night and then drive his vehicle into undercover cop vehicles.
NYC has been overdue for some social unrest.
as usual, counterproductive.
It's in the best interest of ALL New Yorkers to be angry about the outcome of this trial. The NYPD has license to murder without retribution.
An innocent man died. Thats bad. And wrong. The police department should be more accountable to training these guys better. Its got nothing to do with race IMO. It definitely should not have happened the way it did.
Al Sharpton's people should burn down all the buildings in Harlem to show that the people of color will not tolerate this injustice. At the same time they will give the white gentrifiers a clean slate to build their high rise condos upon. Praise the lord and past the deed.
I wonder how many of those people who are protesting know that Sean Bell was a crack dealer.
"I wonder how many of those people who are protesting know that Sean Bell was a crack dealer."
Given the circumstances of this case, I don't care if he raped babies. The protest is about the actions of the police officers.
this is gonna be good. it will bring out the worst in all NY'ers just like the Giuliani administration and subsequent protests.
I foresee a spike in watermelon purchases.
thankfully Pb is cheap. I suggest stockpiling some for zombie attacks.
This is not a black and white issue, it's black and blue.
They should be retried in a federal court immediately. This time, with a JURY!
Given the circumstances of this case, I don't care if he raped babies. The protest is about the actions of the police officers.
What about the actions of Sean Bell? Sean Bell tried to run over the officers with his car. You don't think the police were justified in defending themselves?
And if you would honestly shed a tear for a baby raping pedophile, then you are a disgusting fucking piece of shit.
There was a protest today on the west end of 125th street. We walked past it on our way to the A train. The street was shut down for several blocks and buses were rerouted. My boyfriend took a few pictures. There were probably about 100 people there.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stynxno/2446319307/
The NY Times style guide will say something along the lines of how "authentic" this all is and then Jen Carlson will write an article about it 8 hours later.
Have you heard the latest? Protesting is SO IN!!!!!
-Jen Carlson
Reverend Al is a fly living off NYPD horses' manure.
How did this charlatan become a "community" leader? Is his community so utterly deranged?
Over years we witnessed Brawley's sex hoax and subsequent defamation of Steven Pagones, his defense of the Central Park "wilding" rapists, incitement of pogroms leading to the murders of Yankel Rosenbaum in Crown Heights and 8 victims in Freddy's Fashion Mart in Harlem. Yet, he's the guy everyone rushes to for an endorsement.
Why do young, black males like Bell inspire such fear in everyone, including NYPD detectives? Any particular reason, or is it just racism?
Dear SpearChucker,
"Sean Bell tried to run over the officers with his car. You don't think the police were justified in defending themselves?"
The police officer was under cover and he pulled a gun on these men. The men understandably felt threatened and attempted to get away. Do I think the police have the right to fire 50 bullets into unsuspecting New Yorkers? No, I don't.
"And if you would honestly shed a tear for a baby raping pedophile, then you are a disgusting fucking piece of shit."
As we both know, this isn't about a baby-raping pedophile it is about the NYPD being completely out of control. It is about living in a fascist state. If you are unconcerned about living in a facist state then you are the one who's morality is in question.
"whose" morality, not "who's"
The best is when people think they're going to shutdown the city, and they don't. I hope he gets arrested too.
oh Vanessa
are the police completely out of control? look at the stats - NYPD is one of the most restrained police departments in the nation. We live in one of the safest cities in America. You probably would prefer if the police loosened up a little bit, let some of those quality of life offenses be ignored. No big deal, right? Ignore those open containers or people jumping the turnstiles. It's all good. Because when the cops address those things you call it harassment, right?
You cannot call the entire department out of control based on one incident. Are there bad cops out there? Is the NYPD perfect? No way.
Maybe if they were paid more than $25k to start they would have better qualified recruits.
With more than 37,000 uniformed officers, the NYPD is by far the country's largest police force. Its police shootings often become fodder for the national news outlets, yet NYPD seldom gets a fair shake in the media. At the time this article was authored, December 9, 2006, NYPD has killed a total of 11 suspects. To put NYPD shooting restraint in better perspective, consider that so far this year, at least 19 people have been killed by police in Philadelphia. Las Vegas, which has about 2,170 police officers, has had 12 people shot and killed by police so far this year. In suburban Atlanta's DeKalb County, police have fatally shot 12 people so far this year. DeKalb County, with 700,000 residents, is one-tenth the size of the New York City.
The police officer was under cover and he pulled a gun on these men. The men understandably felt threatened and attempted to get away. Do I think the police have the right to fire 50 bullets into unsuspecting New Yorkers? No, I don't.
Unsuspecting? Says who? You? Were you there? Again, what you're saying is that the officers didn't have the right to defend themselves, yes?
Vanessa,
You may think Spear Chucker's morality is in question, but Bell's morality wasnt in question, he was a convicted drug dealer, selling drugs to the same community defending him. He was hanging out "hours before his wedding" in a place being investigated for prostitution. Maybe your beef is with the justice system, the cops were aquitted by the courts, the prosecution witnesses stories didnt match,the people in the community were lying in order to screw the cops. Your argument isnt holding water and using the term "facist" is a little extreme.
don't tell me, that stuff was from
heather macdonald.
Yup Rev. Al is a leader with the best credability, all the good folks with a beef should seek guidance from him and his racist buddy Charles Barron (a man of such character that he wouldn't shake my hand in Bed Stuy where I live when he was running for office a year or so ago...fyi, I'm white.) I have two words for you Rev. Al and his race baiting rhetoric; Tawana Brawley.
These guys need typographical help. Hand painted numbers are so unprofessional. Ain't nobody going to be afraid of them. They inspire as much fear as a girl scout lemonade stand.
VanessaNYC, I long ago gave up on these comments. There's no point in trying to freshen up the place when its a cesspool around here. This is Gothamist: a nest of racist, sexist, classist trolls, that are occasionally baited by the staff.
9/11 only shut the city down below 14th street..sharpton and his followers aren't going to make a dent.
"It's in the best interest of ALL New Yorkers to be angry about the outcome of this trial."
Do you serve Kool-Aid with your edicts?
@Ace: They should be retried in a federal court immediately. This time, with a JURY!
I'm gonna go ahead an assume you know that a jury trial is a right guaranteed to the accused, not the state. New York did not decide to waive a jury trial, the officers did... with the assumption that judges are better equipped to follow the rule of law than the normal citizenry who usually vote on their feelings, which attorney they like better, and how much they hate cops. Probably a good call on their part.
@VanessaNYC: It is about living in a fascist state.
I'll take overused, inflammatory words designed to make a point that always fail and make their user look stupid for $1000, please.
World trade center attack disaster did not shut down
this city nor will Rev. Sharpton.
If we did not have the NYPD involved in this upcoming civil unrest they would not be looking
forward to all that potential overtime.......cool.
The very people who wish to go against our police
now want to enrich their pockets with overtime!
This is old news already.
No one writing here would wish to be a undercover
cop and have make a split decision on to shoot
or be shot at. Cops have killed cops in "friendly
fire" too, It's tragic ,but an accident of panic.
Many of the commenters on this post are the ones who make me this much closer to deleting Gothamist from my bookmarks. Can we have a comment voting system, please? Like Reddit or Digg, where blatantly trolling, racist or ignorant comments below a threshold will be hidden, to not give them attention they clamor for.
Vanessa sure does has a chip on her shoulder when it comes to cops.
Wonder who she'll call should she get mugged or worse.
FDNY?
Regardless of who Sean Bell was, or what he did, the actions of the NYPD, and the verdict, are cause for concern. This has happened again and again: police panic, open fire and end up killing someone that didn't need to be killed. How are the police being trained at the Academy, that their first immediate response is to pull their weapons? Does anyone who knows how to handle firearms responsibly think that 50 shots are necessary to subdue a victim who isn't returning fire?
Forget about race. Personally, I'm worried about being on the street, or in the vicinity, when a cop goes off on one of these shooting sprees. The way they handle situations is dangerous to everyone.
"...Many of the commenters on this post are the ones who make me this much closer to deleting Gothamist from my bookmarks. Can we have a comment voting system, please? Like Reddit or Digg, where blatantly trolling, racist or ignorant comments below a threshold will be hidden, to not give them attention they clamor for."
then it will just become the usual flag this scenario where differnt viewpoints no matter how legitimate will become supressed!
"...Wonder who she'll call should she get mugged or worse."
fear of being mugged does not trump fear acceptance of a police state!
"...are the police completely out of control? look at the stats - NYPD is one of the most restrained police departments in the nation."
low number of deadly shootings does not mean there isnt general all around blatantly racist unequal enforcement of laws where minorities are unfairly targeted for arrest and aggresive enforcement.
"The men understandably felt threatened and attempted to get away."
lets see a real reenactment 3d computer modeling of how this happened, where where the key players, the unmarked cars, the actual speed actions of sean bells car and time elapsed, how fast and acurately can 4 guys pump 50 shots into a supposedly dangerous moving vehecle both in the path and not in the supposedly lifethreatening trajectory of a car which was really parked, i want to see how these pigs approached this car on foot and with unmarked vehicles.
How could Sharpton ever possibly organize a group of people who for some reason can't ever show up on time for anything?
We are being acclimatized to consider this as normal and it's working, the typical reaction is simply, "oh well that's the way it has to be in order for everyone to be safe". The lazy and selfish reaction to this climate of fear is severely damaging our society, the masses are sleepwalking towards a police state, they see it, but it doesn't register
Only through constant activism, lobbying and vigilance can we escort martial law away from American shores and live peacefully in a society where we do not cower in fear of the armed security guard barking orders at us when simply walking down the street, "citizen, show me your papers."
Are all of you who continue to use racist babble to describe all black people, leading exemplary lives?
Of course not. You're under-achievers, not satisfied with your own miserable lives. You're not intelligent enough to make more of yourselves, so you try to use racism to make yourselves feel superior to someone-- anyone. How sad. It hasn't worked, has it?
Al Sharpton does not represent anyone but himself. You should question the media for continuing to go to him for his opinions.
I am black, I live in Harlem, and I doubt any of you so wrapped up in your hatred, have lives comparable in any way to mine. I probably have more resources, a lovelier (and larger) place to live, and good relationships with people from countless backgrounds and races. I have a small, loving, very close-knit family. I have the good fortune to love and be loved by many other people totally unrelated to, or like me. My life is good, despite decades of unfortunate and painful experiences with people like so many of you.
The same few of you with the small brains and big mouths, have not taken the time to notice that Sharpton cannot manage to fill his own 'Action Network' auditorium (that seems to seat about 200), but that he can fill the airwaves and sites like this, with comments from you pathetic, sad, people.
There is a racial component to the Sean Bell murder. We have no precedent for unarmed white New Yorkers shot dozens of times by the police. We have too many instances where this has happened to unarmed black New Yorkers. This must change.
After you're through posting your hate speech here, you might consider picking up a book, or taking a class. Fill your minds with something enriching, instead of tired old racist cliches, that in the end, achieve nothing. Try to do better. Really.
"There is a racial component to the Sean Bell murder. We have no precedent for unarmed white New Yorkers shot dozens of times by the police. We have too many instances where this has happened to unarmed black New Yorkers. This must change."
That's wrong on several levels.
First, how do you say there's a racial component when two of the three officers are black? That argument fails.
Second, you say there's no precedent? What about the emotionally disturbed Orthodox Jew shot dead by police in 1999 -- his "weapon" was a hammer. Not a gun, like the cops believed in the Bell case, not a car, like Bell used to ram into Isnora, but a hammer. He was white.
The black community built their own stereotypes, carrying guns, engaging in violence. The Bloods and Crips are black gangs -- what white gangs are there? Are white people heading into black neighborhoods, robbing black people? Assaulting black people? Not the last time I checked. I'm a criminal defense attorney... my clients are predominately black. Are you suggesting that white people commit more crimes? No, they don't. It's a cycle of criminal activity that Sharpton would be better off combating in the black community, instead of foisting the blame upon NYPD or whitey. Educate the community, invest in the community, and break the cycle of violence and crime that lands so many young black men in prison. The majority of my clients ARE guilty -- they aren't just being targeted for no reason.
We are being acclimatized to consider this as normal and it's working... The lazy and selfish reaction to this climate of fear is severely damaging our society, the masses are sleepwalking towards a police state, they see it, but it doesn't register
Only through constant activism, lobbying and vigilance can we escort martial law away from American shores and live peacefully in a society where we do not cower in fear of the armed security guard barking orders at us when simply walking down the street, "citizen, show me your papers."
ihatebrokers is being overly dramatic again... first it was the pope, now the police. The police f_cked up and overreacted when someone they seemed to think was dangerous drove his car into them. That's not part of a conspiracy to steer us into accepting a police state; nor is there a "climate of fear that is severely damaging our society."
It must be strange to live in such a state of paranoia, imagining grandiose conspiracies behind every bad thing that happens.
second paragraph in my comment was quoted from ihatedealbrokers, should have been italicized to differentiate from my own.
or maybe i did it deliberately in a scheme to deprive him of his identity
The Reality- the only thing Negroes are really unhappy about- are being associated with a quickly identified, 'color-coded' sub-culture that embraces: oversized neck-chain jewelry; bright teeth; 'rap music', (devoid of music); a comedic 'dress code'; speaking in an American patois (BVE)
-and a sub-culture which eschews education and marriage and invented the term 'baby-father'!
Geez- what a culture! (er- 'sub-culture'!)
Jesse Califano
while there might be a racial element to what happened, since the cop most responsible for what took place is black, it's a little hard to pin the "racist" label on him. It certainly seems possible that he and other law enforcement officers might have preconceived notions about certain groups. But those notions, especially from a black officer, might be based not on skin color but on other things. Clothes, mannerisms, location, etc.
If someone is "acting" like a criminal, it's kind of understandable that someone observing the situation might conclude he could be one. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's not illogical to conclude it's a duck.
I'm not saying that Bell and his friends had what was coming to them. There is no crime in being out at a strip club at 4am. However, some of the surrounding details -- it sounded like they were trying to talk a girl into group sex, and one of them allegedly said he was going to get a gun, followed by Bell driving into the cop after an identification, all would understandably lead the cops to think they were in danger. Again, I'm not saying the cops didn't overreact. 50 shots seems like an overreaction to me.
But if everything did go down as the cops described, which is what the judge apparently believed, the use of force was justified.
Bell's past history would also suggest he wasn't a choirboy. Of course, the cops did not know that at the time, just as they did not know that Bell was getting married that day. They were reacting to the situation presented on the information they had available to them at the time.
Maybe if they reacted differently, Bell would just have been arrested and thrown in jail on his wedding day instead of being killed. Or maybe one of the cops would have been seriously injured or killed. Can't change what happened.
I'm guessing every cop's worst nightmare is being confronted with a situation where some level of force is called for. If you fail to respond, you could be seriously injured or killed; if you respond and the perp is killed, you will be put on trial, labeled a racist, fired and/or sent to jail.
You people are holding back your true feelings. Please say what you really feel about this situation.
jesse califano is OLD! baby-father???
Heard Sharpton saying over the weekend that "the fight is not over".
Sean's fiancée, Nicole Paultre, is saying she wants "justice".
Justice is not getting what YOU want. Justice is not trying and trying again until you get the outcome YOU are searching for. That's not how this country works.
Justice is the judgment of persons or causes by judicial process and the maintenance or administration of what is just by law, as by judicial or other proceedings.
Judge Arthur Cooperman made his ruling and therefore justice has been served. That's it. It's over. We're not editing the Constitution for Sean Bell.
There is no "fight".
Now I heard Sharpton is protesting outside Judge Cooperman's HOME>?!?!?!
Al Sharpton is a terrorist.
holyfrijole- How many times was the mentally disturbed Jewish man shot?
He was not shot 50 times, 41 times, 30 times or even 10 times. If I recall, he was shot once. Another emotionally disturbed person was shot by the police years ago, armed with a kitchen knife. She was in her late 60's, and was resisting eviction. She was black.
Unarmed whites are simply not gunned down by the police in this city, with the ferocity black citizens are. Yes, two of the Sean Bell murderers were black. But the white cop emptied his weapon, reloaded it, and emptied it again. That is unacceptable to me, and should be to any New Yorker.
Lastly, black people did not create the stereotypes we are all painted with. People like you are holding that down. And if you really are a "defense attorney", God help the people who suffer under your dubious 'service' to them. Your reasoning, perceptions and arguments are all fatally flawed.
Ah so white people invented the stereotypes we see in hiphop?
Figures it was a white guy who invented the whole African Medallion, going to College, Educating Oneself, Poetry, Positivity, and going back to Africa phase of hiphop.
Unarmed whites are simply not gunned down by the police in this city, with the ferocity black citizens are. Yes, two of the Sean Bell murderers were black. But the white cop emptied his weapon, reloaded it, and emptied it again. That is unacceptable to me, and should be to any New Yorker.
While i agree that the number of shots fired seems excessive, let's not forget that Sean Bell & crew were in a moving car. It wasn't as if they were standing in the middle of a well-lit street being riddled by bullets. When your target is shielded by a barricade, inside a moving vehicle at night, etc., more shots are understandable once the decision to use deadly force is made. I think crazy jewish guy with hammer was shot during the day while standing on the street. Much easier to fire a shot, see that your target is down, and cease fire under those circumstances.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_Bumpurs
When dealing with emotional distrubed people the racial characteristics are not important.
So saying a white guy with a hammer was shot does not mean there is no racial tension.
It just brings up a whole other can of worms, how police treat mentally disturbed individuals or ED's.
Saying a black cop shot a black suspect does not mean there is no indifference.
Does that make it OK that minorities get shot and killed at a disproportionate rate. Nope.
Does that make it OK that minorities get shot and killed at a disproportionate rate. Nope.
Not even when minorities, specifically blacks and hispanics, commit disproportionate amount of violent crimes in this city? I mean, who else are the NYPD supposed to shoot at? Old white ladies in their rocking chair? C'mon.
That race makes a difference cuts in all directions. If all the cops involved in this story were white, you can be certain that the voices raised against them would have been much louder, and the presumption would have been that because they are white, they must be racist.
Race clearly makes a difference, if not at the time the decision to pull a trigger is made, than at least in how things are handled afterwards.
In the Sean Bell case, what is alleged to have occurred is that the black policeman -- who supposedly thought Bell & Co may have gone to their car to retrieve a gun -- identified himself as a cop, Bell drove into him, and all hell broke loose. If Bell really DID drive into him after he identified himself as a cop, and if said cop really thought these guys might be otherwise armed and dangerous, it seems like force was justified.
If the cop lied about identifying himself first, then Bell was responding (perhaps with racial bias himself) to a black guy in street clothes approaching him with a gun drawn. In that case, Bell's response was understandable, although led to an unfortunate ending. Similarly, if cop id'd himself and Bell, hard of hearing, didn't hear that or see the badge, it seems more like a terrible misunderstanding with Bell's response of aggression leading to deadly results.
When you say minorities getting killed at disproportionate rates, you really mean blacks. Asians and American Indians probably aren't getting shot at similarly high numbers. It's a chicken and egg thing. Hard to know, are blacks being killed disproportionately because they are disproportionately engaging in violent crime, or are they being killed because of police bias. On this point, I think the answer might be both. Incarceration rates are certainly disproportionately higher for black men. Clearly that doesn't mean that black men are predisposed to crime -- there are plenty of black men who are NOT criminals and who have never been arrested. But be it because of social pressures, or poverty, or whatever, it's there. And that probably leads police, of all races, to take race into account at some level, along with dress, location, etc., when sizing a person up. I'm not foolish enough to think that some level of prejudice doesn't enter law enforcement. Of course it does. But I don't think race alone creates these situations.
Black guys are leaving strip clubs at 4am all the time, just like guys of every race, and they aren't shot and killed because of it.
Assuming that the black officer whose testimony was the critical factor here was honest, the shooting started because (1) he heard one of them say he was going to get his gun and (2) after he identified himself as a cop, Bell drove his car into him.
The judge found him to be more credible than the witnesses for the prosecution. I have no reason to doubt the judge's determination, just as I would have no reason to doubt it if he decided otherwise.
Amadou Diallo (1999) was a MUCH clearer case of police mistake, and even in that case, all of the officers were exonerated by jury trial of any wrongdoing. Abner Louima (1997) was a slam dunk case of racist and brutal action by police.
This case is not nearly as clear. In fact, if Sean Bell was not getting married that day, it probably wouldn't have gotten nearly as much attention.
Of the 50 shots fired I believe only two or three took out Bell. His scumbag buddy got hit 16 times and he lived to talk about it. Go figure.
who commits crimes that has nothing to do with it...
theres no need for hyper agressive combat tactics...
although i dont readily agree with the term 'law enforcement' your saying that they have authority to dispense punishment on the spot, they do not.
people holding candy bars or pulling out wallets cannot be subject to over zealous hollywood movie style discharge of weapons, even if it was discovered later that they are wanted criminals, rapists, child molesters, drug dealers, db cooper or josef mengele...
although its easy to say 'looks like a thug acts like a thug.....' not every one can assimilate or wants to, most ghetto behaviors, the walk the talk etc. are coping mechanisms for a difficult to navigate environment.
if you were sentenced to prison, you would have no choice but to emulate and perpetuate prison life, you would not get far without joining the mainstream of your group, see these people live in a different kind of prison, it does not have high walls but it is a mental prison, a financial prison, and there are armed gaurds ready willing and able to keep you in line for even the most minor infractions, these same minor infractions and usually called something else when someone else commits them somewhere else...
COPS ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS
The sad thing about post like this is that all racist come out and show their faces. But let this be a story about the economy, education, taxes, making the future better for our children, this post would only have five replies. Gothamist is getting known now for racist ignorance then anything else.
Also, why do people think this is a black issue? Do you not realize that there were also white people outside the courthouse giving support for justice. This is not a BLACK or WHITE or BLUE issue, it's a HUMAN RIGHTS issue. Tell me, who wants to get shot at 50+ times without posing a threat or being armed? Let's see who will be the first to responded to that question. Sean Bell was shot at 50 times and didn't have a weapon while one cop reloaded his gun and fired more without even stopping to analyze the situation. At what point did the cops not realized that "Hey, they are not shooting back so do we need to do all this shooting?" The only shots fired that night was by the COPS, no shots were fired by the victims, not a one. The cops murder someone because they "thought" they may have had or seen a gun, no gun was never found. Yes, two cops were black but the cop that fired the most shots wasn't. The two black cops stop while Oliver reloaded and shot more, maybe out of hate or him being a racist cop, we don't know.
Spear_Chucker, you stated "Sean Bell tried to run over the officers with his car. You don't think the police were justified in defending themselves?" .... Ah, well maybe if you see four men coming at you with guns in their hands and fingers on the trigger you'll act the same way to. He acted scared which is a human reaction. Sean Bell seen four strangers with guns, how the hell do you expect him to act. Also, answer me this almighty wise one: If Sean tired to run over the cops with his car, don't you think out of all those 50 bullets why was none directed towards shooting out the tires????????? So they would rather pump a human body full of bullets then disable the car.
Megs,
Bless you for putting up with this shit and not becoming a hateful person yourself. I'm a white woman and it pisses me off. I can only imagine the strength that you have inside of you.
Vanessa
who wants to get shot at 50+ times without posing a threat or being armed?
the story told by the cops is that Bell drove into the cops. Use of a vehicle can pose a threat which would justify the use of deadly force.
Ah, well maybe if you see four men coming at you with guns in their hands and fingers on the trigger you'll act the same way to.
I don't think 4 officers approached the car with guns drawn, I believe it was one, with backup in a van and the vicinity. I could be wrong, if you have a source for your version of the facts, it would help to provide it. I don't disagree that if the officer did not identify himself, Bell's reaction was completely understandable even if it proved to be the wrong one.
Similarly, if the black police officer's account is correct -- he heard one saying he was getting his gun, identified himself as a cop and Bell then drove into him-- his reaction to open fire to defend himself is understandable. The other cops who started shooting were responding to a situation started by the one officer, who is black, and Bell.
Megs, clearly some are racist on this board, but that doesn't mean all are. I respect that you can see the difference, and value your input more than the clearly racist ones of comments by "spear chucker" and the like, although I think VanessaNYC is showing a little more white guilt than called for by blessing you and your inner strength.
I agree that there is a racial component to Sean Bell's death, although it's not clear how much of a component it was here.
Also, the "gunned down" component in this case is different from Amadou Diallo. You can fire several shots into a car without being able to tell if you hit your target - even if you have, the car will likely continue to move. The number of shots fired here to make this a "gunned down" incident is a direct result of the fact the targets were in a moving vehicle, not because of the race of the occupants.
There's no question that the police have a bad track record when dealing with people of color. However, that does not mean that every run in between the cops and a black man/men is racist, racially motivated or unjustified. I don't know if this incident was or not.
Amadou Diallo was a clear overreaction by police compared to the perceived threat. Shots were fired because they believed he was reaching for a gun when he was just trying to show his identification. Abner Louima was a racist attack by cops against a black man. The cops involved deserved to be put away. These are all different incidents, involving different cops responding to different situations. Viewing all police as being the same is as prejudiced as viewing all black men to be the same. There are good cops and bad cops.
Here there were a couple of cops of mixed races allegedly responding to the perceived threat of 3 men in a moving car. The question is did the cop who initiated things really believe them to be armed, and did he really identify himself as a cop before Bell drove into him and he shot? Your guess is as good as mine. I have no idea. The judge who heard from everyone believed the cop.
I have no reason to discredit the judge's findings, and to think that Bell and company were innocent here would require me to ignore the findings of a judge AND believe that the black police officer was a liar, and at the same time ignore the disparities in Bell's friends tesimony and Bell's own history (which doesn't justify what happened to him, but certainly does have at least a little weight in assessing how he might react to a police officer and the perception of said police officer of him as a threat).
According to wikipedia's entry, Bell sold crack cocaine twice to a confidential police informant in August of 2006 and Joseph Guzman and Trent Benefield had been arrested nine and three times, respectively, each having been arrested at least once for illegal firearm possession. The kinds of people they were gives further reason to give some credit to the black police officer's story.
seems strange to me that according to union rules police are allowed to confer with themselves and their union lawyers before making any statements to police brass or the DA,
why is this allowed????
why do people keep parrotting only what they hear or read in the mainstream media,
this is only what the police and the mayor want you to know.
and since its reported but not questioned by the mainstream media, its what they want you to know also.
SHOW ME YOUR HANDS! SHOW ME YOUR HANDS! Doesn't anyone watch "cops" on TV? All perps are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
They looked and acted like perps and that is why they were shot at. You talk the talk and then you do the walk and shit, someone believed you.
Fortunately there wasn't a loss of human life.
why do people keep parrotting only what they hear or read in the mainstream media,
this is only what the police and the mayor want you to know.
what source of information would you have people refer to? not everyone is parrotting what they read... a lot of people seem to just make facts up to fit their preconceived notion of what happened.
Facts are facts. The sun rises in the east and sets in the west. What causes the sun to rise and set is up for discussion after ca.1532.
ok...
lets say I get into your car
you are driving,
i sit next to you
on your right front passenger side,
behind us...
are your 2 sweet innocent
never been arrested children
darling harvard scholars holding 2 bibles,
a thank you letter from al gore for their efforts on fighting global warning,
a letter from nobel prize nomination committee for their work on super duper mathematical modeling to detect terrorist networks on facebook and myspace...
now a cop walks by, recognizes me as the reincarnation of hitler who raped his dead grandmother right in her casket in front of his whole family at the funeral, who also deals crack and killed his 3 month old baby.
he calls over his 3 partners and they surround your parked car...
i pull out a gun, tell you to drive and run his ass over if you have to.
at what point are you willing to say well the cops are justified in killing me and my children because he was a bad man.
show me using little wooden models and action figures how this is possible,
how much of a deadly threat is a parked car, a car moving out of a parking space surrounded by 4 undercover cops who where drinking,
2 unmarked police cars or vans without the light & siren kit,
at what speed was the car moving when the pig reloaded?
why didnt the other three officers have the same zeal for discharging their weapons until empty (and reloading!)
this is all made up? its pretty obvious to anyone that shooting a car full of people does not stop a car,
if you can reload you can also move out of the way of the supposedly moving deadly dangerous car.
if this car actually hit someone?
what are the injuries other than some alleged bruising?
police are famous for being injured on the job usually at the expense of a resisting arrest charge to pile on charges and justify tehhir abuses.
it pads their paycheck and is fuel for retirement, better a full pension than a 50% one.
Rember the detective who fell off his chair and wanted a full medical retirement pension?
why did the senior officer of this sting operation duck down and hide when the started? is this a lie? sounds like it, to conveniently avoid testalying and/or adding another person in court who would risk contradicting the shooters stories.
even if this is true, if the danger posed by sean bell and his freinds was so great, why didnt this officer jumpout of the vehicle and join in on the shooting.
nobody is making up facts except the police,
it seems pretty obvious to anybody who understands how a car works that -
shooting a driver does not equal stopping a car,
shooting a tire does not equal stopping a car,
shooting 4 tires does not equal stopping a car,
shooting the passengers does not equal stopping the car,
that this car was surround at a very close promiximity and either not moving or moving at a slow enough speed to be hit so many times.
you can still have a bunch unarticulate assholes who cannot form concepts and thoughts past ebonic rap thug grammar, who might be thinking this was a big game, a big payday, a way to get back at the man, etc but there is nothing to convince me that this was justified?
exactly how damm dangerous is being a cop?
do you think its like on tv where they are catching and solving crimes and actually using their noggin ever since day? its not, trust me,
the bs about it being the worlds most dangerous job is just what they want you to believe, its macho BS, its mostly paperwork and arrests of very low level crimes (like pissing and smoking joints) mostly alot of domestic disputes which again are very low in terms of quality, arguaments and disputes, certainly no hedda nussbaum stuff.they are not solving kidnappings before lunch, they are not catching pedophiles before their shifts end, you want to believe that every cop is tackling bank robbers running out of the bank, or helping little old ladies cross the street. thats NOT happening, cops are there to enforce petty rules, including jaywalking, unlawful use of a milk crate, taking up two seats on a train etc., giving tickets to pregnant women sitting on subway steps...ticketing and arresting parents who have and hold 2 metrocards, but swipes and has kid enter with full fare then swipe with student and enter. intending this to be lawful since the parent always kept possenion of the cards as the gaurdian of the child.
this is nyc, the police bullshit capital of the world.
cops and especially men, bullshit, its a commraderie thing, including black cops, a black cop who needs to feed his family will have to play the game, which is feeding the system.
cops are evil assholes who lie, they are not your freinds..
remember the cops who kept manipulating road sensors to create red light traffic tickets,
ghouliani had the guy who reported it arrested
the most dangerous job in ameriKKKa is being a minorty in NYC.
cops are lying scumbags....
i can give you plenty of eyewitness stories that didnt make it in the papers or catch al sharptons attention.
the most dangerous job in ameriKKKa is being a minorty in NYC.
being a minority is not a job, and there is no KKK involved here. the officer who is responsible for starting the whole thing, who allegedly heard about the gun, and who allegedly identified himself as a police officer before opening fire, is black.
Ihate?
Can you tell me how you feel about his situation in a more condensed version. Are you blaming the car manufacturer for not having adequate brakes?
show me some realistic modeling positioning and speed of the car compared to the shooters and all other players
ill be convinced...
Forget innocent until proven guilty, it is now the norm to consider everybody equally likely to be guilty of something than innocent. This is proactive policing, not preventative or reactive policing, and is widely indicative of a society that is NOT free.
We can become the perfect slave to the system through indoctrination given through network TV. Over time the messages are becoming increasingly racist, violent, and dishonest. But the programming began decades ago and few have the eyes to see it for what it has become. We live in a world where the populations give their minds away to the official version of the event, where utopia is right around the corner when big brother is riding shotgun. It's a world where Hollywood can make you believe anything, even that you are free. It's a world in which the prosecutor and the judge sit on the same side of the bench. The most obvious reason that our minds are being controlled on a massive scale psychologically, is because our culture has been conditioned incrementally through TV, radio, or the paper. We are given the world reality through a screen, some ink, or radio waves. The truth is hiding in plain site. The indoctrination through these mediums warns us that views other than those presented by them are unimportant and too be condemned. This administration and media monopoly has a carefully crafted dehumanization program to anyone that dissents the official version of events.
Messages in the script demonize young minority males and suggest harsh punishments for crimes they commit. They don't come out overtly and state their racist agenda. They come at you from the side by airing the same crime news repetitively, usually when it's committed by the minority group. The networks love the fact that the TV sets the norms in society and hence political opinion.
The media has created the picture perfect society that could exist if we only did things their way.
We live in a world where the populations give their minds away to the official version of the event, where utopia is right around the corner when big brother is riding shotgun.
Our minds are being controlled on a massive scale psychologically, is because our culture has been conditioned incrementally through TV, radio, or the paper. We are given the world reality through a screen, some ink, or radio waves. The truth is hiding in plain site. The indoctrination through these mediums warns us that views other than those presented by them are unimportant and too be condemned. This administration and media monopoly has a carefully crafted dehumanization program to anyone that dissents the official version of events.
I think this sums it up nicely, Posted on the NYPD rant board. This was titled "An open letter to the media"
Tags : None
To Whom This May Concern,
Your coverage of the Sean Bell incident from beginning to end has been absolutely horrible, irresponsible and criminal. Not only have you chosen to selectively cover bits and pieces in the case, but you have also fanned the flames of racial tensions that are undeniably alive in the City, partially created by your irresponsible and sensational reporting.
Sean Bell and his friends were not saints as you make them out to be. They were the scourge of the City. Responsible for countless deaths, violence, and needless addictions against their own people. Their night on the town was not an innocent get together of friends to reminisce on the old times before he made his final commitment to his long time girlfriend. This particular night out was a continuation of his past nights out of fights, drug use, and talk of gunplay. You conveniently forget to mention the past convictions of gun possession, controlled substance sales and the fact that Trent Benefield couldn't even stay out of trouble after this incident, beating his pregnant girlfriend bloody last year.
On the other hand, you choose to make villains out of 3 men who have sworn to protect the City and did so without incident or loss to life until that fateful night. You choose to ignore the fact that none of the Cops involved in the shooting were white, including Det. Oliver who is of Lebanese decent, creating innuendo's that because his appearance is white, he's is so in fact white and that racism was in play.
Sean Bell was not unarmed that night. He was armed and he used his weapon of choice, a 3200lb Nissan Altima that he struck down a Police Officer with and hit an unmarked Police Van twice. This criminal was not a stranger to the criminal justice system and I have no doubt in my mind that he had his gut feeling that they were Cops that he was about to run over, just as we had a gut feeling that he was up to no good.
This was not a tragedy. You can sugarcoat this all you want, but Sean Bells lifestyle, his choices in life, and his choices that night sealed his fate. This is not a tragedy nor is this a unique story. If you choose to live a life of crime, most likely you will die a violent death. The only tragedy here is what 3 detectives had to go through for politcal reaons and yet another african american child is without a father due to his choices in life. This is the true tragedy.
As far as the prosecution is concerned, you can try and blame them all you want. The prosecution was poor because there was no case to begin with. You had 3 men politically indicted without regard of the Penal Law in which they clearly did not violate. You had witnesses on the stand that changed their story 3, 4 , and 5 times. You had witness that told stories that contained physical impossibilities. You had witnesses that would do anything it takes to take a cop down with them. You had witnesses that had been paid off by Al Sharpton or given back door deals on pending cases by the DA's office to "cooperate" and testify. You also had witnesses on the stand that got testy and showed their propensity for violent outbursts, even in protected environment such as a Court Room. No, the Judge did not have a hard time reflecting on this case and coming down with a verdict. That's because there was no case.
So if I can build a time machine and tell my brothers what will happen if they decide to take focus of their case and try to save a possible homicide from happening in front of their eyes, what would the headlines say the next day? I'll tell you:
"Past criminal kills family of 4 in drunken accident after Cops ignore man going to his car in a drunken stuper, focusing on sting operation instead"
or
"Cops sitting inside club, doing sting operation, ignore talk of gunplay as violence erupts outside , 3 dead, 1 wounded....Where were the Police?"
Either way in the eyes of the media, we cannot win. Maybe you should look in the mirror and you will see part of the recruitment and retention problem the NYPD has. Next time you are the victim of a crime, why don't you call Guzman or Benefield for help because according to you, they are the Heros and we are the Villains.
If there happens to be violence, besides the ones perpetrating the violence, I will personally hold each and every one of you "reporters" civilly liable if anything happens to me or my relatives for fanning the flames of racial tension by failing to report the truth.
eyekantspel, 'white guilt' needn't be behind a blessing, and a suspicion of inner strength.
I appreciated it, and I believe I work very hard on not becoming embittered by the continuum of racism I've experienced since I was a child. I am not young. The fact that I don't make those experiences the center of my life, takes a lot of doing, trust me.
People come here from all nationalities, races, degrees of sanity or physical infirmity here. Their suffering is real too. Yet, we manage, all 7 or 8 million of us, to get along, in general, every single day. We, with all our preconceived notions, are managing a rather civil discourse.
That's why I guess I post here. I have the ridiculous notion that perhaps someone's flawed and hurtful generalized opinion, about someone who looks like me (or you), might choose to re-examine it, given examples that disprove a supremacist premise.
Plus, I am an inner body builder. I can bench press about 1000. 1000 what? I don't know. So, thanks Vanessa! And thank you, eyekantspel. You have a gift of clarity that has won you a few debates you really should have lost. That shows a lot of inner strength-- in your head.
NYPD is not your friend!
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Harmon was stripped of his gun last month and pulled from the Queens housing project he had patrolled, after investigators alleged the 30-year-old cop issued more than 80 bogus tickets over the past two years.
In some cases, Harmon allegedly made up names and addresses on bogus summonses for quality-of-life violations, such as public drinking, sources said.
More troubling, they said, Harmon stopped actual residents, took down their names and addresses and stockpiled their information for future tickets.
"He would keep the names and information in his memo book, and use them when he needed to meet a quota; at least that was his excuse," a law enforcement source said.
"The people he stopped had no idea that any summonses [were] ever written. It's loopy on this cop's part," a source said.
Investigators so far found at least two examples where Harmon used the names of actual residents on bogus tickets.
Harmon was flagged when a high proportion of his summonses came back to nonexistent names and addresses, sources said.
Does anyone except the media, a few misguided individuals, and bigots looking for a bogeyman REALLY give Al Sharpton much credibility? I mean, the man has had a few...a FEW valid points about unfair treatment in this country but he's had a TON of misses.
I think today will be my last day reading Gothamist. I tire of the convenient excuses for perpetuating racist, sexist, and classist rants on this site. It's tiresome and no real progress is made towards greater understanding.
A lot of us have done some bad things in our past. That dosen't justify being murdered. For a cop to have to reload in order to keep shooting the victim is evidence of rage to the point of a psychopathic break.
If these officers, one being white, two black, are allowed to go unpunished, it will further open the door to police brutality. That should be obvious to any rational thinking person.
I urge anyone who is outraged by this murderous act to email their U.S. Representative. The U.S. House of Rep. does oversight of the Dept. of Justice concerning civil liberties. We can and it's time we did, make a difference.
Vanessa sure does has a chip on her shoulder when it comes to cops.
Wonder who she'll call should she get mugged or worse.
FDNY?
WOW!!!So right!!
You guys are going mental! I love it! I LOVE READING THIS SITE!! Its not a liberal wah wah site written by people who just moved here from the farm. These are real people with real opinions. The truth hurts! Were you there? Was I there? What the heck were they doing there? Do you even know where that stip club is? How many times it got shut down? And HOW the heck did that chic get her name to be Bell when he is dead? SAVAGES!!! If you want to help them to go their neighborhoods. Spent some time on South Rd at 1am, or Sutphin......then come back with the feeling sorry....come on...talk about it!!