April 24, 2008
New Subway Cops Armed to the Teeth to 'Fight Terror'
Starting today, teams of six NYPD officers will be patrolling the subway system in 12 hour shifts to thwart would-be terrorists. You’ll be able to easily identify the squads – called “Torch Teams” – by their rifles, MP5 submachine guns, handguns, body armor and bomb-sniffing dogs.
The program is being paid for with $151 million from taxpayers nationwide, allocated through D.C. The Torch Teams will function like the similarly equipped NYPD “Hercules Teams” (pictured) above ground.
WCBS says this “a fist [sic] for mass transit in the United States.” The NYPD’s spokesperson calls them “Hercules teams with MetroCards.”
Photo by Dietrich.
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Note to al-Qaida: You can no longer have your terrorism meetings on NYC Subways.
Poor guy. Having a hard time getting out of that tiny car carrying that big gun to fight terrorism.
LOL, nice.
YOU THERE! LET GO OF THAT DOOR! STOP DELAYING THE TRAIN OR I'LL FIRE!
That would work wonders :)
Nice, because nothing makes me feel safer than groups of dudes in kevlar and riot gear carrying machine guns.
police state.
Clearly wearing a uniform, carrying the standard issue weaponry, and being observant would not get the job done...
Whatever it takes to stop Puerto Ricans borrowing bikes..
there are going to be a lot more "sean bell" trials in our future.
That should do it. The only problem is all the enemy has to do is wait for a 12 for the price of 6 sale at Duncan Donuts and there goes security.
I can't wait to ride next to one of them on the Molester, uh, I mean the six train.
"Pardon me mr. terror-fighter, but your large shaft is uncomfortably pressing against my leg."
that sounds like a great way to start any morning!
6 officers for almost 500 stations and 8.5 million people? if a person or organization wants to use terrorism as an effective tool, it will and there's no amount of security that can stop them.
see Israel for reference.
Aaahhh....the illusion of freedom continues. Enjoy the police state.
If you think this is a police state I suggest you go live in Cuba or China for a few years. And I don't mean that in a "love it or leave it" way. I mean that you really have no clue.
is it me, or what...?
I just can't see how someone, albeit well-trained, can fight terror with submachine guns, etc. The whole thing about terror is that is is not like combat, it is elusive and relys on the element of surprise. Would this approach have helped on 9/11, or in the London attacks?
I am not a weapon specialist by any means, but if he was to fire a submachine gun into someone in a crowded station, is there the possibility that the round would rip thru one person and into the next bystander?
JC! That's a lot of weaponry. And since when have automatic rifles stopped suicide bombers?
I don't really get the machine guns. What kind of situation would they actually be useful in? If someone blows up a subway car, are these teams going to start spraying bullets across the subway platform ?
Big guns and dogs?
Expect the subways to smell like urine more often these as people piss their pants far more regularly.
This sort of thing is pretty common in a lot of countries. I've seen similar in Europe, Hong-Kong and who knows where else.
By, most will be carrying sub machine guns, I imagine. It's as much to deter as it is for possible shoot-outs, though if push comes to shove, sub-machine guns like the mp5 should be the most effective weapon for stopping would be suicide bombers IF they're spotted in time. The rifle pictured, an m-4 carbine would be almost entirely for scaring people, I suspect. They're great at longer ranes and they have what some would call "good stopping power" but I can't imagien they're worth a shit on the subway.
It's a deterrent. If the London transit cops had rifles and submachine guns, maybe those terrorists would've thought twice about bombing their mass transit system.
They are teams of 6 and like the NYPD Hercules units, they can pop up any where at any time, further increasing their effectiveness as a deterrent. If terrorists were/are planning something they won't know if the Torch units will happen to be in the area. It throws a monkey wrench into their planning system.
Also, cops don't fire into crowds, so don't worry about getting hit from a stray bullet from a cop's submachine gun. That only happens in the movies.
Excuse me, I'm an idiot. Joeb, the last comment was dirrected to you. To Bizzle, there's some risk of a sub-machine gun round going through a person and hitting the next. Though sub-machine guns use the same rounds handguns use and in this application they'll likely be hollow point round, increasing the damage of impact and lessening the chance of a shot traveling through the body.
Also, you guys need to consider that these guys never want to use guns. They're put there to scare would be terrorists.
Great. The good people of NYC aren't harassed enough daily as it is, huh?
What the fuck is a submachine gun going to do in an enclosed space other than bloat the egos of those who carry them? I agree with the idea that there are going to be a lot more Sean Bell cases out there after this.
Speaking of which, who else is going to keep their eyes on the news tomorrow? If the wrong verdict comes out, we might just have our own version of the LA riots.
Bizzle, that is a possibility with any firearm, but an MP-5 is not much more powerful than a glock.. they use the same ammunition. The M-4 would be a different story.
How does this stop anyone who is ready to kill his/herself anyways???? Just like the stupid bag searching -- if someone sees cops going through bags, they can just go to the next entrance.
This country runs on fear. Expect more.
#15 and #18 hit it right on the head. This is nothing but security theater, this has absolutely zero value in terms of offering real protection from or prevention of a terrorist attack. What is most outrageous is that this is EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE, this money could actually be spent of something useful and effective, like, say, schools, health care, environmental clean up, or even just better roads. This is just shameful and disgusting PR.
And yet, if the NYPD/government/etc etc didn't do anything in regards to terror the same people crying "police state" would be complaining about how the government doesn't do anything to protect us.
Just keep complaining about everything "the Man" does. Because that's productive.
Is this an election year?
edEx ,
it is not 6 officers for 8.5 ml ppl.
The author sad "groups of six", there is no mention of the number of groups.
The whole point of this is to make people feel safer and to make potential terrorists more cautios and careful wth their execution plans.
These groups however have no better chance of stopping a terrorist than a regular joe 6 pack.
I like this police BS, after 9/11 they started carrying gas masks, now these guys are wearing kevlar - how does it help regular people? I mean the cops raise their chances of survival, but how does that help the commuters? It could even make it worse: such cop would "PANIC" (see Sean Bell case) and WILL RUN FOR HIS LIFE to the nearest exit, and will clear out his path using a submachine gun?
Lets issue them grenades also. And install napalm barrels on the ceilings of subway stations.
"the same people crying "police state" would be complaining"
You are completely wrong. You would be better off keeping your stupid comments to yourself.
One of those teams of six cops would make a nice tasty yummy target for a suicide bomber.
So what do you suggest that the police do to prevent/thwart terrorism?
Seems to me like a strategy by Ray Kelly to get the federal government to pay for regular policing of the subway system in order to bring rising crime rates down. I doubt he believes that this shit will stop any real terrorist -- particularly those willing to die -- but it could definitely stop a mugging or two. They do have sidearms after all.
"It's a deterrent. If the London transit cops had rifles and submachine guns, maybe those terrorists would've thought twice about bombing their mass transit system."
I don't see how this could possibly deter suicide bombers or people hiding bombs.
It's bogus -- an effort to look like the govt is doing something. The money would be better spent in normal efforts to catch criminal or terrorists, not putting on a show for the sheeple.
You are completely wrong. You would be better off keeping your stupid comments to yourself.
Same to you.
Meh, this kinda of thing's been going on since way before 9/11 in many developed countries. It's been the norm in parts of Italy for 40 years. This is basically what the Hong Kong TSA is like. Guys with carbine assualt rifles loitering throughuot the airports. It works. It's a great deterrent for any type of crime and it will make it that much harder for would be bombers to formulate subway bombing plans.
Thanks for your info everyone. I probably just watch too much TV.
Let's face it, terrorists want us to live in a state of panic just like they do in their militant countries. To that end, they have won by having us use our typical American "Over the Top" response and implement things like this to give us a false sense of security.
Sure I don't have to worry about anyone stealing my iPod, but I do not feel any more secure from a group of organized specialists with an agenda.
Bizzle, I'll say it again, this is nto American. We're late in the game in this regard. Read my comments above or just spend some time in Europe and look for guys with assault rifles standing on random street corners.
this has nothing to do with panic. The patriot act, etc., do, but this absolutely by no means has anything to do with panic.
So what do you suggest that the police do to prevent/thwart terrorism?
They really can't do much, period. If someone wants badly enough to blow themselves and bystanders up, they'll find a way. What we should be doing is not living in constant terror. You're more likely to get hit and killed by a cab than to be blown up by a terrorist.
I don't understand how anybody can misinterpret this article to mean six men total. Even NYC government couldn't manage to burn $151 million on just six men, unless they were all bionic.
Dio - Just because other countries do it, does not make it a good idea. You can re-state you opinion as much as you like and it does not sway me from believing that it would be a better idea to throw money at people to think of better ideas for a resolution for something like this rather than additional arms.
Maybe the goverment agencies do not want us to see this, but I really hope that there more money being spent on intelligance than over-arming local agencies.
i remember being in Egypt and seeing machine gun wielding soldiers at a bus stop or wherever and thinking, "wow... guess I'm really not in America". well guess again!
can anything be done about this ninja police state we are slipping into??????????
So what do you suggest that the police do to prevent/thwart terrorism?
Has there ever been an act of terrorism on the NYC subways?
All the terrorism on our soil since 2001 has been from home grown good ol' Americans - from shootings on college campuses, to high school shootings to mall shootings.
Another future source of domestic terrorism will probably come from all the Iraq War veterans, who are coming home with all kinds of physical and mental problems, to a VA system that will not be able to handle them. You can expect a few of those experienced combat veterans to go nuts in the near future.
So what do you suggest that the police do to prevent/thwart terrorism?
Embed at least one FBI agent in each mosque and collect intelligence; tap each imam's phone/computer; stop pretending Osama cannot be caught and destroy his org; monitor explosives and components traffic/purchases; heavily tax oil companies and stimulate alternative energy production and use - all this is much more effective.
I was entering the subway a few days ago, I had not shaved for a week and had a good dark beard, had a crazy look in my eyes from sleepless nights filled with lots of work, had wires sticking out of my large bag and overall looked middle-eastern and suspicious. There was a bag check point on my way we 3 cops manning it. They looked at me and I thought they were gonna stop and check me. However they stopped a blond slavic-looking teenager who was walking in the same direction with me, why - because he was walking closer to them. My point is all these bag checks are not even done right.
Bizzle: I didn't make the comment to say that it's a perfect sollution, I made it to refute the asinine postulation that it's a uniquely American solution and the product of paranoia.
Also, of course this isn't the only attemopt at stopping subway bombings. No one said "We've solve terrorism," they've just said, we are now slightly safer, which we are. And reltaively speaking this is pennies spent.
"Has there ever been an act of terrorism on the NYC subways?"
Has there ever been an act of terrorism on our ports? No. So let's stop all the silly patrol nonsense there, too.
I'm going to say this a second time: Cops patrolling the streets and subways does not equal a police state. If you want to debate this on its merits or cost effectiveness then do so. I don't think North Koreans or Cubans think that cops with guns is the problem. It's being dragged out of their homes in the middle of the night for something they said to the neighbor who reported them to the secret police and then being detained without trial. Jose Padilla may have a legitimate gripe with the government. Passing a cop with a machine gun in the subways of New York does not make you any less free.
"What the fuck is a submachine gun going to do in an enclosed space other than bloat the egos of those who carry them? "
An MP5 makes a lot more sense in an enclosed space than does, for example, what the National Guard is carrying when they're posted in the transit system.
And what people don't seem to understand is that the designation "machine gun" doesn't mean that the gun can only fire long, sustained bursts like a gangster's Tommy gun in the movies. These guns offer "selective fire." Depending on the exact model and configuration they can be used as fully automatic, semi-automatic (one shot at a time) or two-round or three-round bursts. And those bigger guns the National Guard is using usually have the same options. "Spraying bullets" isn't necessary.
EastRiver: apparently stating your "opinion" [read: facts] multiple times doesn't help, especially when people are already so paranoid. You know, the terrorists are going to get us no matter what, so what's the point in trying to prevent them? With guns. Our government just wants to point guns at us while we travel to work. What a waste of money.
It's overreaction and overkill. This does not make New Yorkers safer, it just makes them more uncomfortable in their own city.
the patriot act is overreaction, this is not.
I can understand though if my job was to keep on a lookout for terrorists, even if there is a remote chance of getting into a firefight, it would be nice to have some serious firepower.
My problem with guns like this is that I don't see visible safeties. When I was in Colombia all the national police had these big yellow safety sticks in their chambers, which is a really good idea.
What strikes me it that it's almost like we're replacing the national guard with police units, and sending all the national guard over to Iraq.
Seeing these guys get on your car could turn any train into the BM train.
:>)
#30
i misread.
#13
*Aaahhh....the illusion of freedom continues. Enjoy the police state*
the united states is nowhere near a police state, not even close.
as for the MP5... while a decent weapon, the Uzi is more fitted for crowd control, plus having only six parts, it's super easy to maintain.
This does not make New Yorkers safer, it just makes them more uncomfortable in their own city.
Speak for yourself.